BajaNomad - At it again in Cd Constitución?

At it again in Cd Constitución?

oladulce - 4-11-2012 at 02:43 PM

After 1½ years of smooth sailing in and around Cd C, we were pulled over again under false pretenses 3 days ago while heading to La Paz. Had to make a stop in town so we'd been on the side service road, drove at about 10-15 mph or less ,and of course made complete stops at every single intersection. The cop truck waited until the service road and highway #1 intersect , in front of Super Ley, to pull us over (which is where they have nailed us in the past).

One policeman came to the car and said our registration tags said "once" (11). I pointed out that 11 was the month of expire and if he looked closer he'd see the year was 2012 and I showed him the registration docs. He asked for Wooo's license and then said we'd have to pick it up at the station tomorrow.

At this point mild-mannered Wooo said "absolutely not" and began to tell him "look buddy, I have lots of friends on your police force blah, blah" and began naming names. I'll just say that we were eventually on our way with his license in hand.

Heading North on the return through the town today, we stayed on the Federal highway- down the center lane. There happened to be a Federal Camino driving parallel to us on the service road which may have acted as a chaperon- don't know. Only saw one Municipal police truck while passing through and he was occupied with something.

We don't have a choice but to go in to Cd C because it's got the nearest banks and building materials. There are some very nice people living there but the police thing sucks.

woody with a view - 4-11-2012 at 03:33 PM

you did good!

DavidE - 4-11-2012 at 04:51 PM

PONER UN QUEJA con LOS ANGELES VERDES! peeed-off or not el capitan de transitos for Constitucion is going to have to wade through three pages of intense paperwork in order to resolve the complaint. He then has to mail it formally to DF out of his own pocket. If he fails to do it, he goes to jail.

But you need the date, the time, the location, the cop car, and the name of the transito to make it work.

SECTUR doesn't screw around with these complaints.

Howard - 4-11-2012 at 06:45 PM

Oladulce

Good for you guys standing your ground!!

Leo - 4-11-2012 at 06:53 PM

What a pain that town's police force is. It was good for a while. What happened?

BajaBlanca - 4-11-2012 at 07:17 PM

sorry to hear that the headaches are starting again .... good to know about the paperwork involved in handling a formal complaint. I had no idea.

we need to let the mayor know, someone has to take control of this totally OUT OF CONTROL situation.

DavidE - 4-12-2012 at 09:15 AM

I once had a cop follow me in La Paz. I went one mile per hour on a deserted back street, and stopped for 10 seconds at the stop signs. They finally went around me after 10 blocks and the passenger cop gave me los cuernos,

Hook - 4-12-2012 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
sorry to hear that the headaches are starting again .... good to know about the paperwork involved in handling a formal complaint. I had no idea.

we need to let the mayor know, someone has to take control of this totally OUT OF CONTROL situation.

If it's like our town, the comisario has ZERO say or control over the commandante.

Lengua - 4-12-2012 at 10:34 AM

So what is the advice ? We will be towing our boat to LaPaz from Loreto next month (May 12th) and will be cutting thorugh CD Constitution . We don't want any problems so your advise on how to handle this matter is appreciate d.

Thank you ,
Mike

Escort

bajaguy - 4-12-2012 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lengua
So what is the advice ? We will be towing our boat to LaPaz from Loreto next month (May 12th) and will be cutting thorugh CD Constitution . We don't want any problems so your advise on how to handle this matter is appreciate d.

Thank you ,
Mike

I would look for a Policia Federal car or a military vehicle, explain that you are tired of the extortion and would like an escort through town.

DENNIS - 4-12-2012 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

All you can do is politely refuse to pay and insist on going to the station.

I just ordered one of these. Don't know exactly why, but it seems it could be a good witness.
Paid about 40 bucks at Amazon:

http://minicam.en.alibaba.com/product/496169101-210321284/2_...

gallesram - 4-12-2012 at 10:58 AM

Not sure if I'd use the camera based on what someone else said on this topic last month:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=59220&pag...

Apparently it's illegal to photograph the police down there; I don't know if that's true or not. I agree with Dennis that the best thing to do is stand your ground, refuse to pay and insist on going to the station. That has worked for me each time. The other option is to take the road that parallels the highway about 4 blocks to the east and avoid the main highway.

I like the advice about seeking a federal cop and requesting a federal police escort; if enough of us did that, maybe that could have an effect. I wonder if they'd actually do it?

DENNIS - 4-12-2012 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallesram

Apparently it's illegal to photograph the police down there; I don't know if that's true or not.

Yeah....I've heard that a lot, but I just don't believe it. Besides, they don't have to be told everything.
I'm sure I'd never use something like a video to accuse a cop to his boss since they're all in the same boat, but that wouldn't stop me from making the cop a movie star on YouTube. Something like that would bring more pressure down on them than anything else I can imagine.

Lee - 4-12-2012 at 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lengua
So what is the advice ?
Mike

Anyone advising you to go to the station is doing so based on their personal experience or heresay that justice will be in your favor at the station especially if you are innocent of any traffic violations.

As I've written recently, someone I know came through CC at night, was stopped, refused to pay a mordida on the street, denied doing anything wrong (I don't know how complete his stops were, or anything else about his driving), and asked to go to the station. He followed the cop down a dark street and he felt threatened when the cop stopped, came back to him asking for money, and refusing a 2nd time, ended up at the station.

The gringo was escorted to a room where a woman showed him a chart that had the prices for the fines -- the gringo was being charged with speeding -- and an additional charge of ''reckless driving.'' Both charges amounted to $50. He paid the fine and left.

So, I'd like to hear some responses to this scenario. Don't pay at the station? Demand to see the Commandante or the Mayor? Hang around till they show up?

I'm not stating that going to any police station won't work, sometimes, but I can state that recently, the outcome was not positive for someone I know in CC.

Whatever your strategy is, be prepared to negotiate.

Try Facebook

bajaguy - 4-12-2012 at 03:27 PM

Baja Sur Secretary of Tourism has a facebook page. You might want to leave some comments there. That might stir up something official being done. After all, nobody likes negative publicity:

https://www.facebook.com/VisitBajaSur

It will be interesting to see how they respond

DENNIS - 4-12-2012 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
So, I'd like to hear some responses to this scenario. Don't pay at the station? Demand to see the Commandante or the Mayor? Hang around till they show up?

I guess if they have you in the station, they're done with their bluff. No way you could prove much to the Comandante or anyone else at that point. It's your word against the cop and he'll win every time.

oladulce - 4-12-2012 at 06:57 PM

Quote:

The center lanes are Federal Highway and are the jurisdiction of the Federal Caminos. Never heard of a problem with the Federal Caminos. The Cd Constitucion cops are municipal police and they patrol the service roads that paralell Hwy #1 as well as the back streets in town.
If you can, try to stay in the center lanes and don't make pit stops in the town. There are only 2 functioning stoplights now and all other intersections should be treated as stop signs.

Be aware of the final 3-way intersection at the south end of town just past Super Ley. There is a non-functioning stop light and no posted stop sign, but you will encounter cross traffic and you will be expected to stop.

The speed limit through town is 24mph (40kph) when in the center lanes. I've never seen the speed limit posted on the service roads so we drive them at a crawl- about 15mph.

The cops like to hang around the hospital at the south end of town- lots of pedestrians and the cops can claim that you didn't yield to the invisible lady who was trying to cross the street. If anybody even looks like they are thinking about crossing the street , we stop and flag them across.

Luckily, during our recent incident the cop was not at all assertive and it was not a scary or sketchy event. We have encountered a more aggressive cop on previous mordida attempts here though. No need to be paranoid, but it's still a pain in the butt.

A reminder: it is the policy for the police in the municipality of Comondú to take your license and to instruct you to go to the police station when you have committed an infraction. Not wearing your seat belt, speeding, not stopping at a stop sign or not following the rules regarding turns on to, and off of the side service roads may get you pulled over and the cop will take your license. It's their policy and you might want to make sure you didn't actually do something wrong before you go off on a cop who wants to take your license.

I don't know the hours of operation at the police station. Friends of mine who have had real infractions in Cd C (no seatbelt, not seeing a stop sign)where pulled over during daylight hours and the cop took their license and they went to the cop shop, met the judge, paid their fine and were given their license back.

Seems like the latest ploy is for the cop to tell you to go to the station "tomorrow" since most people would rather pay on the spot and be on their way. I don't know if the cop shop has certain hours of operation or if it's really open 24/7. I'll ask one of our local cops.

pointdog - 4-12-2012 at 08:20 PM

I drove through on Monday the 9th coming from the north heading south and home. Jonesing for a cup of coffee for the road, I gave it the old surfer's prayer and got over on the service road to the 1st Coffee Star. Stayed on the service side until the merge at the south end. I always feel like I'm on borrowed time going through there. Especially after reading a post like oladulce's. Until the next time ..... whew!

RnR - 4-12-2012 at 08:24 PM

Where is the "cop shop"?.

I think that it is near the southern end of town and over 2 or 3 blocks to the east.

Anbody know for sure?

oladulce - 4-12-2012 at 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RnR
Where is the "cop shop"?.

I think that it is near the southern end of town and over 2 or 3 blocks to the east.

Anbody know for sure?

It's 3 blocks behind Bodega Aurrea, at the North end of town, on the inland/East side of Hwy #1.

RnR - 4-13-2012 at 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce

Quote:

Originally posted by RnR
Where is the "cop shop"?.

I think that it is near the southern end of town and over 2 or 3 blocks to the east.

Anbody know for sure?

It's 3 blocks behind Bodega Aurrea, at the North end of town, on the inland/East side of Hwy #1.

Thanks.

Maybe I was going the other way when I passed by it (by accident) a few years ago ......

If anybody decides to actually follow the cop to the station, it would be good to know if you were actually going in the right direction or just being led aound.

[Edited on 4-13-2012 by RnR]

oladulce - 4-15-2012 at 09:21 AM

The police station in Cd Constitución is open 7 days a week until midnight.

oladulce - 5-1-2012 at 10:56 AM

Spent the day in Cd C banking, groceries, and buying tires and drove from one end of town to the other on the main service/side roads that parallel Hwy 1. Saw a couple of Fed Caminos on the Hwy but only saw one municipal police truck and we had no problems.

Nice!

oxxo - 5-1-2012 at 12:15 PM

We passed through around noon on Sunday. Saw a couple of police pickups but no problems. We drove the speed limit and made all the required stops (even though those around us didn't).

DENNIS - 5-1-2012 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
We drove the speed limit and made all the required stops (even though those around us didn't).

Keep that up and you'll be paying a multa for impedeing the flow of traffic. :lol:

DavidE - 5-1-2012 at 01:58 PM

Termino de Tramo
Inicio de Tramo

de Carga de SCT

End Of Section (of highway)

Start Of Section (of highway)

Under jurisdiction of the Secretaria de Comunicaciones Y Transportes

When you encounter these signs anything and everything beyond them are either NO, not the responsibility of the SCT, or YES, the responsibility of the SCT unless the signs are flattened by a big rig.

If upon entering Ciudad Constitucion you should see a Termino de Tramo sign along side the highway, it means the END of the jurisdiction of the SCT, period. No if, and, buts, or maybes. No calles principales or paralelos, sidewalks, cruces de peatones, puentes, zero.

Iflyfish - 5-1-2012 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Baja Sur Secretary of Tourism has a facebook page. You might want to leave some comments there. That might stir up something official being done. After all, nobody likes negative publicity:

https://www.facebook.com/VisitBajaSur

It will be interesting to see how they respond

Anybody do this yet?

A couple of years ago Nomads may have played a significant role in limiting the Police Extortion on Hwy 1 in Cd Constitution, the only Federal Highway that connects Northern Baja with Southern Baja. At the time it appeared that Social Networking may have had some influence on decreasing this activity.

At the time Nomads came up with a list of things to do if stopped in Cd Constitution. I don't have the link to that discussion here now. You can find it under the search feature.

I hope people will continue to post on this subject and report your current experience with Police Extortion in Cd Constitution. If it continues then Nomads may again need to assert themselves in the many ways they have of influencing important people to stop this tourism killing activity.

Stop Police Extortion in Cd Constitution on the Only Federal Highway connecting North and South Baja. Highway I is the ONLY way that tourists can drive the entire Baja and Police Extortion in Cd Constitution affects not only the businesses of Cd Constitution but the economies of the entire states of Baja Norte and Baja Sur.

Iflyfish

DavidE - 5-1-2012 at 04:38 PM

Yo no tengo prisa.

Vamos a ir a la Comandancia

Voy a presentar una queja

Luego, usted y yo y tu comandante se va a hablar con el juez.

Entonces voy a presentar una queja ante la SECTUR

¿Me puede recomendar un hotel cerca de la Comandancia?

PRINT THIS OUT IN LARGE BOLD FONT AND KEEP A FEW COPIES IN YOUR GLOVE COMPARTMENT. THIS IS A POLITE BUT ABSOLUTELY NO B.S. WAY OF CALLING A BLUFF. JUST BE SURE YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN YOU DID NOT ACTUALLY SPEED OR RUN A LIGHT OR SOMETHING.

David K - 5-1-2012 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Yo no tengo prisa.

Vamos a ir a la Comandancia

Voy a presentar una queja

Luego, usted y yo y tu comandante se va a hablar con el juez.

Entonces voy a presentar una queja ante la SECTUR

¿Me puede recomendar un hotel cerca de la Comandancia?

PRINT THIS OUT IN LARGE BOLD FONT AND KEEP A FEW COPIES IN YOUR GLOVE COMPARTMENT. THIS IS A POLITE BUT ABSOLUTELY NO B.S. WAY OF CALLING A BLUFF. JUST BE SURE YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN YOU DID NOT ACTUALLY SPEED OR RUN A LIGHT OR SOMETHING.

Very cool David, and here is the Bing translation:

I'm not in a hurry.

Let's go to the command

I am going to file a complaint

Then, you and I and your Commander is going to talk to the judge.

Then I am going to lodge a complaint with the Ministry

Can you recommend a hotel near the command?

DavidE - 5-1-2012 at 05:46 PM

Does anyone here know the actual limite de velocidad on the carratera principal through Ciudad Constitucion?

Does anyone here know the speed limit on the paralelos?

Does anyone here know the law about how to make a left turn or a u-turn off the carratera principal inside the city? Or for that any of ten thousand Mexican cities that have paralelos.

Do you know that it is ILLEGAL to get rear ended while making a left turn in most of Mexico? The hittee not the hitter. Your rear, their front. Big multa and responsibility for the accident? This is an almost universal law with few but well defined exceptions.

Ateo - 5-1-2012 at 06:13 PM

Man, I'm glad I only go thru Constitucion every couple years. I've been thru there 7 or 8 times total, and always taken it slow, having heard the reports in the past.

I really hope this situation gets resolved.

[Edited on 5-2-2012 by ateo]

Dashcam

bajaguy - 5-1-2012 at 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Does anyone here know the actual limite de velocidad on the carratera principal through Ciudad Constitucion?

Does anyone here know the speed limit on the paralelos?

Does anyone here know the law about how to make a left turn or a u-turn off the carratera principal inside the city? Or for that any of ten thousand Mexican cities that have paralelos.

Do you know that it is ILLEGAL to get rear ended while making a left turn in most of Mexico? The hittee not the hitter. Your rear, their front. Big multa and responsibility for the accident? This is an almost universal law with few but well defined exceptions.

Somebody should dashcam the road through town

Blair - 5-1-2012 at 09:01 PM

We rode through Constitución on two separate days two weeks ago on our trip to the cape. Both times on unlicensed dirt bikes. Went to the bank, the pharmacy and stopped for tacos at our favorite place both times. Saw the police but they weren’t interested in us. Great tacos though!

oladulce - 5-2-2012 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

The speed limit posted on the carretera when you enter the city is 40kph. I've never seen a sign on the service roads.

I'd love to know the actual rules regarding turns and entering/exiting parallel roads through cities. Since we're not sure, we never make left turns from the parallel service roads unless there's a stoplight with a turn arrow and we never turn off the highway on to a parallel road while in the city limits. We do a lot of "going around the block" to cross over the highway to get to the other side of town and to go from the North parallel road across the Hwy to the South one so we don't make illegal turns. It would be great to finally know the rules.

vandenberg - 5-2-2012 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce
. It would be great to finally know the rules.

They make them up as they go.

pointdog - 5-2-2012 at 12:41 PM

Went through yesterday (Tuesday) heading south. Baja 1000 participants and chase trucks going through at the same time on a transport leg (on the highway, not racing.) The police were stopping all gringos (non mex plates) at the very north end of town before the San Carlos turn off. The muni police at my window told me to stay to the left lane in the center (federal) hwy at 35 KPH and everything will be fine. I almost asked him if that was just a one time special deal because of all the race traffic but thought better of it. I did take the turn west (right) at the San Carlos turn off and then drove south paralleling the highway to the south end of town just to test out that route. Slinking along the back roads. :biggrin:

Marc - 5-2-2012 at 06:25 PM

Mexico is such a pi** hole. I guess that's why I love it so.

LaPazGringo - 5-4-2012 at 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by Lengua
So what is the advice ?
Mike

I sure wish I didn't know about this story, Lee. Before I heard you telling about it, I naively trusted in my old, expired Calif. license and BSing them about "Okay, let's go the station then!" These guys are slick, devious criminals and they're trying to stay one up on us.

Someone here in La Paz made up a form to keep in the car for taking down information to submit a report. I think that would be highly effective, especially if we were all prepared with the mayor's name and knew how to submit paperwork to him. Has anyone ever worked on getting a .pdf made up complete with a complaint form as well as contact information of all parties who the complaint should be sent to?!

Mula - 5-4-2012 at 04:42 PM

A couple of months ago my husband got hauled to the Station - we always go to the station - because he didn't want to pay the cop 500 pesos on the street - for no front license plate and for no seat belt. . ..

It was 570 pesos at the station - with the pay now discount!

Now we carry that receipt in the glove box with the registration when ever he is asked about the front license plate . . . which for some reason has been missing for years.

LaPazGringo - 5-4-2012 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mula
A couple of months ago my husband got hauled to the Station - we always go to the station - because he didn't want to pay the cop 500 pesos on the street - for no front license plate and for no seat belt. . ..

It was 570 pesos at the station - with the pay now discount!

Now we carry that receipt in the glove box with the registration when ever he is asked about the front license plate . . . which for some reason has been missing for years.

I would much rather go to the station and pay 570 pesos if it's going to the courts and if I was guilty. Good for you guys for not taking the easy way out and rewarding the thieves.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-10-2012 at 12:35 PM

May new People do not understand that the Officer is not taking a Bribe he is Collecting TAXES!!

Think about it: In the States if you get a Ticket for Speeding you go pay a Fine which is a TAX.

Same in Constitution the Officer is just collecting a TAX. Most of the time the Person is guilty of some infraction. The officer can generally find something thast is not Lawful so just relax and PAY THE TAX

desertcpl - 5-10-2012 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
May new People do not understand that the Officer is not taking a Bribe he is Collecting TAXES!!

Think about it: In the States if you get a Ticket for Speeding you go pay a Fine which is a TAX.

Same in Constitution the Officer is just collecting a TAX. Most of the time the Person is guilty of some infraction. The officer can generally find something thast is not Lawful so just relax and PAY THE TAX

oh yah

I am sure they put the bite into the city funds, Tax sure

DavidE - 5-10-2012 at 06:43 PM

Pues. Si!

IVA para de Navidad

IVA para semanta santa

IVA para de el dia de valentino

IVA para puta

Ademas...

Tecate
Rinnes
el flat panel
la casa chica
la chica
joya

Que Claro Que Si!

No Hay Fin! Gracia A Dios!

[Edited on 5-11-2012 by DavidE]

Who is your dealer, Skeet?

thebajarunner - 5-10-2012 at 08:20 PM

Quote:

What possible chemical mix can bring you to this kind of conclusion?

Skeet/Loreto - 5-11-2012 at 07:02 AM

Many of those Good People are my Friends and have been for several years.
We have talked about their need to inprove their ewuiptment , run the offices etc. Most of the time the People giving the Tickest and collecting the money have to supply their own Guns, and Equipt,What is the difference in getting a Ticket in the States other than the Officer asking for the Fine Right then and There????

Skeet/Loreto - 5-11-2012 at 07:04 AM

Have any of you ever traveled on Hwy 287 and been caught at Esterline Texas??

Never been caught in a Speed Trap??

chuckie - 5-11-2012 at 07:30 AM

Try Iron County Missouri, in a newish Corvette with New York plates.3 days in jail cuz I refused to pay a heavy fine for something I didnt do...Food was good tho, fried baloney and grits, every meal...

LaPazGringo - 5-11-2012 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Many of those Good People are my Friends and have been for several years.
We have talked about their need to inprove their ewuiptment , run the offices etc. Most of the time the People giving the Tickest and collecting the money have to supply their own Guns, and Equipt,What is the difference in getting a Ticket in the States other than the Officer asking for the Fine Right then and There????

You're kidding, right? I'm the new guy here so I'm really not sure. All I know about you is that in other threads you're a self-proclaimed voice of morality. Now you're saying this?! :?:

If you're asking sincerely, the difference between the two is enforcing the law and stealing. It's the difference between right and wrong, black and white. The ticket is not based on the law, infractions or anything other than your nationality and the pesos in your pocket. It's abuse, extortion and robbery. You have no right to defend yourself against the charge in court. You're threatened by authority and force to extort cash. It's literally armed robbery.

You call 'em friends, I call 'em sleazy, lying criminals and I would imagine that any other reasonable person would as well.

LaPazGringo - 5-11-2012 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Have any of you ever traveled on Hwy 287 and been caught at Esterline Texas??

Never been caught in a Speed Trap??

Ooooooooooh, okay. Well that makes it alright then.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-11-2012 at 09:57 AM

Now: Think about it.

People are coming through their town. Theses people nearly all admit that they were speeding etc.

If you donot think you should pay a Fine you can insist that you go see the Judge, Usually the Fine will be about 1/2 Half

This is the way of life in Mexico. I spent 38 years in Baja, learned "Their way of doing things", It is very similar when you need something that takes a permit ,

Just learn to speak /Spainish, relax and enjoy life

Is the American Officer that Hides behind a Bldg. catches you speeding or running a Red Light any Different other than in Mexico the Officer ask for the Fine at the Scene of the Infraction.

chuckie - 5-11-2012 at 10:10 AM

YES

Cypress - 5-11-2012 at 10:10 AM

Is there a minumum speed limit? Designate Cd Constitucion an extra slow, creep along zone. No hurry, no worry!

[Edited on 5/11/2012 by Cypress]

Skeet/Loreto - 5-11-2012 at 01:04 PM

I think it is 30 Kilos ,

Constitution has some very different History. Look into it.

in 1992 my Wife was having some real bad Pain. We were in Loreto. Took her to the General Hospital one Sunday Morning, Dr. Gustavo Moralia and told me she only had about 4 hours to live.
They operated on her about mid day. She stayed a Week and when she was released I paid a Whopping bill of $61 Dollars. Total!!

We bacame friends with the Nurses and Doctors and set up the "Warm Jackets for Cold Kids' Charity for the real poor Kids out in the country that get real cold when the Fog rolls in.
Turnes out that the Director of the Hospital was a 32 Degree Mason as I am. We became good friends and I attended two of the Masonic Lodges there. Later I met and knew several of the City Officials.

I would suggest that the next time stop in and look around and visit the Piblic Market. The people are Great.

DENNIS - 5-11-2012 at 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I would suggest that the next time stop in and look around and visit the Public Market. The people are Great.

How much are they?

backninedan - 5-11-2012 at 02:52 PM

Depends on how you have them prepared.

chuckie - 5-11-2012 at 03:57 PM

And the sauce...

Howard - 5-11-2012 at 04:47 PM

How can some of you take a serious post and make so much fun at other peoples expense??

By the way, I like mine people medium rare with a side of horse radish. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 5-11-2012 at 04:53 PM

My only request is that they're served on a square plate.

DavidE - 5-12-2012 at 09:29 AM

JEEZ! Thanks Skeet!
You made me feel like a wooly mammoth saying 38 years. I am at 48 years and would give anything to magically go back to 10 or even twenty :-)

And right-on Gold Star time. 30/kph it is on the carratera principal, and 20/kph on los paralelos. This info is right from both the signs and one sargento de transito de ciudad constitucion.

"The court does not care 'what speed the other traffic was going' the court is interested solely in what speed you were traveling. Guilty. Pay the bailiff".
-Traffic Court Corona California April 1991-
(Thank goodness it wasn't me)