BajaNomad

"The Federal Highway From Vizcaino B.C.S. to Bahia Tortugas B.C.S. Is A Disgrace To The Republic"

DavidE - 4-25-2012 at 08:44 PM

So began my letter to Manuel González Cosío, Secretaria de SCT.

"La carretera federal de Vizcaíno a Bahía Tortugas es una vergüenza para la República"...

... is far and away too potent an opening salutation to be used lightly. Saying something like this to one of the top administration figures en México, sets off alarm bells, raises hackles, and generally causes faces to flush. Every single word that follows such a denúnciacíon must be absolutely perfect or the communication is tossed into the round file, with no small amount of prejudice thought toward the sender.

So I spent hours crafting what I thought to be "The Perfect Letter" using every last drop of my experience in México to aid me in my quest to get that damned road fixed.

It is of zero worth to scream, curse, threaten or cajole someone of power in this country**. It is similarly of little benefit to beg, whimper or whine *unless* this tactic is hand forged with amendments, addendum's, and adornments, which usually must be Muy Méxicano to acheive maximum effect.

** Unless of course you wield greater power or influence than they

So, following mi denuncia, I described my journey in detail from Vizcaino to the "entronque" (intersection) of the nearly perfectly maintained spur highway to Asuncion.

I described in elaborate detail, hitting bache mas bache (pothole after pothole) at 20 kilometers an hour, one third the speed limit. My muffler broke loose. My rear view mirror fell off the windshield. MY trunk popped open, and so on. Stop after stop had to be made in order to try and get my car and my life back in order.

Then at the top of one cuesta (hill, grade) I encountered a ganado (steer) blocking the travel lane. Avoiding the steer was impossible as a two meter "profundo de arena" Deep sand had blocked the other lane of traffic exactly like the two hundred other sand dunes had blocked a huge distance of the highway. I did not hit the steer. Instead I plowed into the dune. I got my crutches (boy this is good because it is true) and exited to find my car buried in sand. What I didn't elaborate on was just how quickly the 4WD Mitsubishi Montero showed up behind me, and how quickly a snatchum strap was produced and how in less than a minute's time I was yanked backwards to freedom.

But I continued with the letter. I finally arrived near the entronque only to bang into yet another unavoidable bache so hard 'I bit my tongue'. Now this the part where knowledge of Mexico is indispensable. Several presidents ago, one was boasting to his wife how 'his SCT' made such a wonderful stretch of la carratera under his administration: The limousine ran over something bad, the first lady bit her tongue so bad that she was rushed to a hospital. The dressing-down el presidente gave la secretaria de SCT became legend. The road was immediately torn down, all of it, and reconstructed. The 'tongue biting episode' is still muy sensitivo in SCT headquarters.

Yeah I did bite my tongue but it was my lip that bled. Mostly. So I embellished how I stopped yet again to clean up the blood and that's when I noticed the huge billboard alongside the highway.

"The SCT Spending Millions Of Pesos On Highway Improvements. Your Government Building A Better Life For You".

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I emailed the Word document to Gilberto, my amigo a Tapatio from Guadalajara. He is a UNAM holder of a doctorate in Latin American studies and has offered many times to clean up syntax errors in letters I deem important.

His Reply "David I changed little but some verb conjugations and sentence structures. But do not add to this letter. It is very powerfully written and is of good length".

The letter was sent via MexPost to Mexico City almost three weeks ago. Was this an exercise in futility?

¿Te haces muchas ilusiones?; tendrás muchos desengaños.

Making many dreams and having many disappointments

Vamos A Ver

I'm going to see

The result or lack of will be obvious. I mentioned this letter in a post several days ago. Lately I thought better of it as it was rather vague as to what I did. I believe GypsyJan an Asuncion resident commented on it.

NOTHING VENTURED NOTHING GAINED.

I know nothing of this highway's history or its politics. I haven't a clue as to how long it has been left to decay with no maintenance.

Bajaboy - 4-25-2012 at 08:51 PM

When I first traveled the highway in 1997, it only went to the bombero plant and then it was horrible. In fact, it was worse than the old El Arco road. Today it's much better by far and in my opinion not worth complaining about. I'm more concerned with the water situation in BA than the road.

Zac

DavidE - 4-25-2012 at 09:00 PM

Thanks Zac! Give you two guesses as to whom has to take a Navy bath mañana with purified water. I guess my clunker rides worse than yours. What seems to be the issue with el agua? Remember, I am the greenest of horns around here. :-)

DavidE - 4-25-2012 at 09:14 PM

Had to come and go through El Arco in 1964. Never lived there and had to commute on la brécha. Stick my nose in one too many knotholes and I can assure you there will be a woodpecker waiting at one of them.

Bajaboy - 4-25-2012 at 09:23 PM

My uneducated guess about the water is that there is little to go around....and the infrastructure is in disrepair. I think it's only going to get worse. We plan on buying/installing another tinaco and plan accordingly.

My take on the road is it's better than it's ever been....reminds me to slow down and enjoy the drive.

Please take no offense at this

thebajarunner - 4-25-2012 at 10:05 PM

But, complaining about Baja roads is like complaining about the rain in Seattle (lived up there 23 long dreary years)

It will likely make you feel a tad better, but it won't help much with the problem.

Bad Baja roads and dreary Northwest days.....
sort of resonate, one with the other IMO

Skipjack Joe - 4-25-2012 at 10:06 PM

Well, you certainly told them off. Potholes and sand dunes. I'm sure they'll snap to action.

DavidE - 4-25-2012 at 10:19 PM

No Pay Taxes To Get Gray Dreary Days. Gray dreary days do not rip the struts off my car. I try very hard to enjoy everything but enjoying terror at seeing a foot and a half pothole suddenly appear is beyond my ability.

I much prefer aljibes to monster tinacas. Easy to concrete-in the blocks in soft sand. You can build a really large aljibe and not have to lay in bed at night and wonder if the new filled to the brim super monster size tinaca wants to come down and join you. Will fill fine with 5 psi pressure. This is the biggie on the mainland, not enough lift to the top of the casa. An aljibe does require a pump and float regulation but 2,500 gallons of water during a dry spell is sure nice.

Like I Said "Vamos A Ver"

DavidE - 4-25-2012 at 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Well, you certainly told them off. Potholes and sand dunes. I'm sure they'll snap to action.


When in Nevada I see people spending thousands at the slots and tables and then stand in line an hour to save six bucks to eat much lousier food than at a real casino restaurant with cloth napkins and butter rather than "Table Maid". And they'll chain up in the winter for all this!

Vamos A Ver. I did all I could. Let's see if they "Snap To Action :-)" You know, you can never tell about these things. Really. Doing nothing at all versus conversing with D.F. may yield slightly different results.

The only thing more dismal than being a pessimist is being a dead pessimist.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by DavidE]

Iflyfish - 4-25-2012 at 11:12 PM

Quote:
The only thing more dismal than being a pessimist is being a dead pessimist.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by DavidE]


Or a deported pessimist?!

Iflyfish

DavidE - 4-26-2012 at 01:24 AM

Or an adult terrified of la chupacabra, el coco, chanecos or el mal ojo! :-)

mtgoat666 - 4-26-2012 at 06:49 AM

I don't think letters from gringo expats will change anything.

One wonders, didn't you know that moving to rural baja entailed living at the end of a long poor-quality road?????

I doubt that things will change soon... you should probably find a way to accept that the road will stay the way it is.

A couple things to chant as you drive the road:
"don't worry, be happy!"
"always look on the bright side of life"

drive slowly and enjoy the scenery!


and if you are in the mood, sing this:

Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.

So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath

Life's a piece of chit
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the bright side of life...
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life...
(I mean - what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life...

chuckie - 4-26-2012 at 06:54 AM

Sounds better than the road to my Ranch in NW Kansas...

shari - 4-26-2012 at 07:20 AM

DAvid...the letter probably hasnt even arrived yet... but here is some history to the road and some mitotes to go along with it.

the story is that this road work is done in piece work and they began at the end...the villagers here couldnt believe it that after the big hoopla when the governer came to hold the shovel at the start of our new highway...they started paving our main street instead of the bad bad bad road into Asuncion. Nobody cared about a paved main street and all those fancy boulevards took away all our street parking...folks here like to park in front of the store!....so that took like a year to do and now we need an army of workers to sweep it every day to keep the sand off it...wait till you see it when it rains and all the sand from the other streets totally covers it and it takes weeks to clean it all off.

But now we kinda like how pretty all the flowers look.

Then they started paving the road in from the Tortugas turn off and that has taken another couple years but is finally done and gorgeous...although still has cows and burros.

Next the machinery went to work on the turnoff to Turtle Bay which is a helluva long long road to pave.

The word is that when all that is paved, the machines will go back and fix that knarly part you speak of....patience grasshopper.

But yes, it enrages all who travel that road regularly...imagine how the Bimbo truck driver feels...he must go to his happy place driving that bugger.

They do fill the holes every few months and plow off the sand dunes too but one must just be resigned to driving slowly and carefully to Vizcaino on that bad part.

Money is very tight especially around elections and these projects have been budgeted for many years and are part of a long process.

NOw the water is another story. In the name of progress and political posturing, the government brought a water pipeline to the coast several years ago...before each village had a desalination plant that worked pretty darn well....so now the polititians are cutting the ribbon on a new water line that will extended along the south coast to the villages of Pta.Prieta, San Hipolito, La Bocana and Abreojos. We have always had a slow down of water in the summer and we all expect that but with this new water line, we can expect a REAL scarcity....residents here are not happy about sharing the water.

I rent a house to the head engineer of the project and he explained that with this new pipe going south, the little water that did come our way from the Vizcaino aquifir will now be severely compromised...the new pipe is larger and the holding pila is much larger than ours and place before our pila in the line so in essence, most water will go south and we might get a Dibble coming into Asuncion in the old pipeline. We too have bought large tinacos and built a big pila here...the cooperativas are very concerned as you can imagine..they need reliable water.

The other concern is with the huge compay Los Pinos who have moved into Vizcaino and is a huge water consumer...just how big is this aquifer anyway?

There are rumblings of bringing back desal plants to the villages which I think is the only solution to ensure a reliable water source.

DavidE - 4-26-2012 at 07:43 AM

Beautifully constructed additions to this thread. Shari's is so chock full of information I am going to copy it and put it in my "History to Learn" section of my word processing program.

mtgoat666's song is priceless, I intend to copy it to my USB and have it printed. I can practice solo with my awful croaking singing voice in inside the privacy of my embarrassment resistant little car that has suffered so terribly on that road.

Even the really sour replies are going to find a use. They too shall be printed out. But to act as covers for my mixtures of harina, levadura, sugar and water. Somewhere within those replies a miracle may lay. A starter catalyst so sour that it may make a whole new class of sourdough bread. Acidic to the point where a bread eater will wince with sheer delight.

Meanwhile - let us keep an eye on the highway. The vegetation is sparse, the bird life infrequent as is oncoming traffic. Let's just keep an eye on that road. That's all I am begging at this point.

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 07:52 AM

Isn't there some hard feelings between political parties. ie the delegado and the Presidente/Governor?

And I can't thank you for the water, yet, since the current pipeline work ends in San Hipolito

Iflyfish - 4-26-2012 at 08:12 AM

Even the really sour replies are going to find a use. They too shall be printed out. But to act as covers for my mixtures of harina, levadura, sugar and water. Somewhere within those replies a miracle may lay. A starter catalyst so sour that it may make a whole new class of sourdough bread. Acidic to the point where a bread eater will wince with sheer delight.

Love your attitude man! Make sourdough bread, priceless!

Sometimes ya got to make lemonade.

Mexico can be a befuddling, maddening, frustrating place to get anything done. It is also a place of serendipity and magic. I think we all at some time hit a wall and have a blow out about something that does not work that seems like it should be so simple! So Simple!! But, alas it usually is not so simple and we find that Rube Goldfarb, somebodies nephew, who won't look you in the eye is in charge and grinning at us and telling us to relax, have a beer and it will be fixed tomorrow, oh, and bring back another paper that you don't have with you this time. One never knows who's nephew he is and whether after you complain that you find that now nothing simple is ever again simple and you need yet another set of papers before it can be done. Somehow though things eventually get done, or as done as they will ever be and we can ease back into our own manana mode as we watch another magnificent sunset, sip our evening margarita and snarf down another earth shaking fish taco.

Viva Baja e viva Mexico! Viva DavidE as he tilts at this particular windmill. Viva too the potholes and sand dunes that are part of the lore of Asuncion and spawned the T shirt with the logo "I survived the road to Asuncion". Most of us have one of those shirts and would gladly donate it as fill for those sink holes! Viva too Shari for history and perspective and dare I say it, Hope?!

Iflyfish

shari - 4-26-2012 at 09:02 AM

first off....a very very happy birthday wish for you Mr. Fish and hats off to your baja spirit.

rts551...i understand that the state funding ran out (they mumbled something about the money going into campaign funds)...and this money was to purchase the pipe that will go out to La Bocana & Abreojos....so the project has been halted till after the elections.

Mexitron - 4-26-2012 at 09:26 AM

I remember when I used to drive from San Clemente to Borrego Springs I would often stop to use the restroom at the state park about halfway over the mountains. There was a huge pothole on the road in and had become worse as time went on---it bugged me so much I finally fixed it myself (and I'm sure paid off a karmic debt to the state for the use of their facilities...).:light::?:

So would it be possible to have the PTB drop a few piles of asphalt along the road and have everyone volunteer to fill the holes every so often? I'm sure the budget would allow for that....

mtgoat666 - 4-26-2012 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE

mtgoat666's song is priceless, I intend to copy it to my USB and have it printed. I can practice solo with my awful croaking singing voice in inside the privacy of my embarrassment resistant little car that has suffered so terribly on that road.


it's from the musical "spamalot." you can probably buy it on itunes or get the CD.

shari - 4-26-2012 at 10:50 AM

fighting for just about anything in mexico is an exercise in futility. The politicos want to secure votes so they create these initiatives like paving and water lines...and as Don Jorge has eluded to...they are able to skim massive amounts of money off them and give contracts to favoured companies for kickbacks etc....the feds want to win elections.

For example our fantastic new baseball stadium just got a super upgrade to astroturf, new wall, fences, and big stadium lights...for what? nobody plays ball at night....this thing cost a veritable fortune yet our health clinic is falling apart and terribly run down and a real disgrace and health hazard. The village folk just shake their heads in disbelief at some of these government projects...complaining that the money spent could be much used in more important places that serve a wider community base.

Yes, most of the village are baseball fans, but our nice stadium was more than adequate.

what can we possibly do to fight for our water...kick out Los Pinos...aint gonna happen...monkey wrench the new water pipe...i doubt it. The municipality just raised our water rates from 90 pesos to 150 pesos and we have half the water we used to get...what does one do?

Bajaboy - 4-26-2012 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
fighting for just about anything in mexico is an exercise in futility. The politicos want to secure votes so they create these initiatives like paving and water lines...and as Don Jorge has eluded to...they are able to skim massive amounts of money off them and give contracts to favoured companies for kickbacks etc....the feds want to win elections.

For example our fantastic new baseball stadium just got a super upgrade to astroturf, new wall, fences, and big stadium lights...for what? nobody plays ball at night....this thing cost a veritable fortune yet our health clinic is falling apart and terribly run down and a real disgrace and health hazard. The village folk just shake their heads in disbelief at some of these government projects...complaining that the money spent could be much used in more important places that serve a wider community base.

Yes, most of the village are baseball fans, but our nice stadium was more than adequate.

what can we possibly do to fight for our water...kick out Los Pinos...aint gonna happen...monkey wrench the new water pipe...i doubt it. The municipality just raised our water rates from 90 pesos to 150 pesos and we have half the water we used to get...what does one do?


kind of sounds like San Diego

elgatoloco - 4-26-2012 at 11:20 AM

Los Pinos in SQ built their own multi-million dollar desal plant to insure a steady stream of water for their fields. Maybe they will do something similar down there. Probably right after they use up the existing supply? :rolleyes:

Loretana - 4-26-2012 at 11:40 AM

Originally posted by shari
"fighting for just about anything in mexico is an exercise in futility."


To paraphrase the Leonardo Dicaprio character in the film "Blood Diamonds"

"T-I-M" (This Is Mexico!!)

:rolleyes:

DavidE - 4-26-2012 at 12:00 PM

People Who Give Up And Declare A Situation As Being Hopeless

Are Always Correct About The Eventual Outcome

Therefore To Them it Is More Important To Be Correct

Than Suffer Disappointment

shari - 4-26-2012 at 12:44 PM

those of you who know me....know that I am an eternal optimist...have fought long and hard for what I believe is just and am not one to just give in to apathy....BUT...fighting for something is NOT the same here in Mexico...so I've learned not to waste too much time and energy in letter writing or complaining to try to change something that will only change with the political climate.

Enrique2012 - 4-26-2012 at 12:56 PM

I like Baja's bad roads. It's part of what attracts me to the peninsula.
Bad roads, good people. Good roads, bad people.
I don't like gringos who move to Baja and complain about it.
I think you should move somewhere else.

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Enrique2012
I like Baja's bad roads. It's part of what attracts me to the peninsula.
Bad roads, good people. Good roads, bad people.
I don't like gringos who move to Baja and complain about it.
I think you should move somewhere else.



I have found, living in BCS, that this overused statement is just not true. All roads bring al kinds of different people. There is no screener on a bad road only letting good people through. I'll bet the drug runners prefer bad roads as there is less traffic.

What good roads do is bring more to the community those roads serve. People travel more and there are more deliveries. You need to think of more than your selfish one week a year vacation.

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 01:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
those of you who know me....know that I am an eternal optimist...have fought long and hard for what I believe is just and am not one to just give in to apathy....BUT...fighting for something is NOT the same here in Mexico...so I've learned not to waste too much time and energy in letter writing or complaining to try to change something that will only change with the political climate.


As I understand it there is bad blood between the Delegado and the governor... one of the two may have to change before anything gets done.

DavidE - 4-26-2012 at 01:25 PM

Where to Enrique? Back to Michoacan where there are as many people, but poorer, but much better roads? Poor roads encourage much less tourism, fewer jobs, and one hell of a lot less mercantile trade. But I guess in a wide area where 3,000 people live, bad roads are really better because someone who does not live here thinks so.

DavidE - 4-26-2012 at 01:31 PM

I am trying not to drift here. I like to think I am focusing what pitiful scarcity of karma that I possess in getting one lousy stretch of road fixed. That's all. Maybe I should say this more clearly LET'S SEE IN THE COMING WEEKS IF LOS BACHEROS SHOW UP. YES? OR NO! entiendes?

Bajatripper - 4-26-2012 at 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Quote:
Originally posted by Enrique2012
I like Baja's bad roads. It's part of what attracts me to the peninsula.
Bad roads, good people. Good roads, bad people.
I don't like gringos who move to Baja and complain about it.
I think you should move somewhere else.



I have found, living in BCS, that this overused statement is just not true. All roads bring al kinds of different people. There is no screener on a bad road only letting good people through. I'll bet the drug runners prefer bad roads as there is less traffic.


The first person I heard this statement attributed to was Doña Anita Espinoza in El Rosario, who used it to indicate how the paving of the Transpeninsular Highway had opened the door for all kinds of rats to invade the peninsula, rats who would never have been interested in making the drive down the old trail.

That said, I know the standard of living of my Paceño friends improved a lot when the Transpeninsular was paved.

shari - 4-26-2012 at 01:51 PM

i really dont see what "bad blood" between a mayor and governor has to do with getting a road near vizcaino fixed...or denying other coastal villages piped in water...it really has nothing to do with Asuncion at all...these decisions are federal not estatal. It affects the Bahia Tortuga residents as well as Asuncion.

public works money is very tight all over the municipality...cops and garbage men arent paid for months on end...there is no power at the village office or water company so they cant give us receipts...no money to pay the bills so I dont see where the money to fill some potholes that will come from...and they will just open up again if ya put a bandaid on them...the road is well travelled and quick fixes dont last but a couple weeks...it needs to be repaved and will be done when the tortuga road is finished so have patience grasshopper.

Each place has it's positive and negative things about it. But I can tell you that the road is a thousand times better than it was when I first came here. I can certainly put up with some potholes to live in the paradise I call home.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by shari]

Bajatripper - 4-26-2012 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Where to Enrique? Back to Michoacan where there are as many people, but poorer, but much better roads? Poor roads encourage much less tourism.


In most cases, you'd have a point. But two years ago, when I took my daughter on a long drive through Mexico, we avoided Michoacan about the time those seven military (including a female) people were found decapitated by a highway there. THAT will definitely put a damper on tourism, too.

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 01:58 PM

I guess I was misinformed. I was told the governor had influence over what happens in their state.

Where is all the money going?
Quote:
Originally posted by shari
i really dont see what "bad blood" between a mayor and governor has to do with getting a road near vizcaino fixed...or denying other coastal villages piped in water...it really has nothing to do with Asuncion at all...these decisions are federal not estatal. It affects the Bahia Tortuga residents as well as Asuncion.

public works money is very tight all over the municipality...cops and garbage men arent paid for months on end...there is no power at the village office or water company so they cant give us receipts...no money to pay the bills so I dont see where the money to fill some potholes that will come from...and they will just open up again if ya put a bandaid on them...the road is well travelled and quick fixes dont last but a couple weeks...it needs to be repaved and will be done when the tortuga road is finished so have patience grasshopper.

Each place has it's positive and negative things about it. But I can tell you that the road is a thousand times better than it was when I first came here. I can certainly put up with some potholes to live in the paradise I call home.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by shari]

shari - 4-26-2012 at 02:19 PM

of course the governor has some influence but it's not just about Asuncion...people from tortugas, vizcaino, guerrero negro etc...vendors, company delivery vehicles are all suffering....machinery from the cooperativa here clears the sand dunes once in awhile and the potholes are filled by crews from Vizcaino...so some political differences of opinion between a mayor and governor most likely wont have alot of bearing on things.

Now if a governors daughter was killed when she flipped her vehicle over one of the dunes...that might get some action....but as I said, these road repairs are on a time table and wont get done because we write some letters. I do believe that when the governor comes to cut a ribbon on some showy project....they should have to drive in that road instead of flying in to the airstrip...then the would see first hand what we deal with on a daily basis....like THAT"S gonna happen.

Skipjack Joe - 4-26-2012 at 03:05 PM

Is there a reason why the road to BOLA is in such greater shape than Asuncion? Aside from the sand drift for which there is no solution.

And then there is that marvelous road to San Rosalillita (right number of l's DK?). A road going nowhere.

Regarding the water:
With the high price that abalone is garnering, can't the townfolk finance their own desal plant?

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 03:07 PM

different state. There has been a lot of money and construction in Baja California.

David K - 4-26-2012 at 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Is there a reason why the road to BOLA is in such greater shape than Asuncion? Aside from the sand drift for which there is no solution.

And then there is that marvelous road to San Rosalillita (right number of l's DK?). A road going nowhere.

Regarding the water:
With the high price that abalone is garnering, can't the townfolk finance their own desal plant?


Yes, correct... and Ralph is right about Baja Ca Sur being a different state... but the road into Bahia de L.A. has been part of the federal highway system... and while I haven't seen any highway designations into Asuncion, it seems to be a state highway...?

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 03:16 PM

Shari says they are federal decisions
Quote:
Originally posted by shari
i really dont see what "bad blood" between a mayor and governor has to do with getting a road near vizcaino fixed...or denying other coastal villages piped in water...it really has nothing to do with Asuncion at all...these decisions are federal not estatal. It affects the Bahia Tortuga residents as well as Asuncion.

public works money is very tight all over the municipality...cops and garbage men arent paid for months on end...there is no power at the village office or water company so they cant give us receipts...no money to pay the bills so I dont see where the money to fill some potholes that will come from...and they will just open up again if ya put a bandaid on them...the road is well travelled and quick fixes dont last but a couple weeks...it needs to be repaved and will be done when the tortuga road is finished so have patience grasshopper.

Each place has it's positive and negative things about it. But I can tell you that the road is a thousand times better than it was when I first came here. I can certainly put up with some potholes to live in the paradise I call home.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by shari]

shari - 4-26-2012 at 03:17 PM

Igor..the cooperativas are discussing getting a desal plant to ensure a reliable water supply...i guess progress isnt working for us....back to the old desal plants...too bad they sold the old one. I hope San Hipolito keeps theirs in running order.

I also just heard that the pot holes are being filled as we type...that's good news.

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 03:21 PM

Funny. We have a desal plant but the coop trucks in a lot of their water.
Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Igor..the cooperativas are discussing getting a desal plant to ensure a reliable water supply...i guess progress isnt working for us....back to the old desal plants...too bad they sold the old one. I hope San Hipolito keeps theirs in running order.

I also just heard that the pot holes are being filled as we type...that's good news.

David K - 4-26-2012 at 03:21 PM

So Dah-veed's letter worked!!??:lol::yes:

Skipjack Joe - 4-26-2012 at 03:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551

You need to think of more than your selfish one week a year vacation.


I'm sorry, Ralph, I can't let this pass.

Shaming people is one of my least favorite ways to make a point.

The argument is pointless.

Who is more selfish, the one who wants potholes so as to preserve a state or the one who doesn't want potholes so that his ride to town is more comfortable.

It's all a matter of perspective.

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551

You need to think of more than your selfish one week a year vacation.


I'm sorry, Ralph, I can't let this pass.

Shaming people is one of my least favorite ways to make a point.

The argument is pointless.

Who is more selfish, the one who wants potholes so as to preserve a state or the one who doesn't want potholes so that his ride to town is more comfortable.

It's all a matter of perspective.


Interesting perspective.

Should the residents of a given area control its preservation. or should it be "others" how ever that is defined. I think we are struggling with that in the States right now. Need to settle local/state/federal and in some cases world rights before we say it is a pointless argument.

Or Igor, look at it this way. Shouldn't a RESIDENT have the right to complain about the service he/she is getting from their government? after all we are talking about a hiway.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by rts551]

Enrique2012 - 4-26-2012 at 03:42 PM

David E - I don't really care where it is, as long as it's not California or Baja. Throw a dart at a map and pick some place, a new place, where you can begin complaining all over again.

DianaT - 4-26-2012 at 03:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Who is more selfish, the one who wants potholes so as to preserve a state or the one who doesn't want potholes so that his ride to town is more comfortable.

It's all a matter of perspective.


Yes, I agree, it is a matter of perspective. However, whose perspective has the most to do with living day to day?

From the perspective of the locals with whom we are friends, a comfortable ride has never entered the conversation. They are more concerned with:

Safety---it is a safer to drive a good road

Car Repairs --- bad roads are very hard on their cars and tires.

Faster --- for in cases of emergency when they have to go to GN or Santa Rosalia for medical emergencies that cannot be handled locally.

And they need to use the road often for money from the bank and shopping and coming the other way, they want more supplies and other vendors to visit more often.

And of course the co-op's have their perspective about wanting better roads----economic reasons that affect the entire community.

And there is more, but not once have I ever heard someone say that a comfortable ride is why they want a good road.

But, then again, I guess that all of their reasons could be considered a selfish perspective.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by DianaT]

Iflyfish - 4-26-2012 at 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Who is more selfish, the one who wants potholes so as to preserve a state or the one who doesn't want potholes so that his ride to town is more comfortable.

It's all a matter of perspective.


Yes, I agree, it is a matter of perspective. However, whose perspective has the most to do with living day to day?

From the perspective of the locals with whom we are friends, a comfortable ride has never entered the conversation. They are more concerned with:

Safety---it is a safer to drive a good road

Car Repairs --- bad roads are very hard on their cars and tires.

Faster --- for in cases of emergency when they have to go to GN or Santa Rosalia for medical emergencies that cannot be handled locally.

And they need to use the road often for money from the bank and shopping and coming the other way, they want more supplies and other vendors to visit more often.

And of course the co-op's have their perspective about wanting better roads----economic reasons that affect the entire community.

And there is more, but not once have I ever heard someone say that a comfortable ride is why they want a good road.

But, then again, I guess that all of their reasons could be considered a selfish perspective.

[Edited on 4-26-2012 by DianaT]


"Selfishness" is a critical term used to discount self interest. Well said Diane, well said.

Iflyfish

One week- 10 posts and already a critic

thebajarunner - 4-26-2012 at 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Enrique2012
David E - I don't really care where it is, as long as it's not California or Baja. Throw a dart at a map and pick some place, a new place, where you can begin complaining all over again.


Wow, that did not take you long to assert your authority on the board.
On our trip down in March a newbie in our group took umbrage with my criticism of a place he had never seen and told me "Why don't you just stay the f*** home next year?"
The fact that he was on his second bottle of scotch probably entered into his deft choice of words.

David K - 4-26-2012 at 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
Quote:
Originally posted by Enrique2012
David E - I don't really care where it is, as long as it's not California or Baja. Throw a dart at a map and pick some place, a new place, where you can begin complaining all over again.


Wow, that did not take you long to assert your authority on the board.
On our trip down in March a newbie in our group took umbrage with my criticism of a place he had never seen and told me "Why don't you just stay the f*** home next year?"
The fact that he was on his second bottle of scotch probably entered into his deft choice of words.


I think that (or tequila) is the fuel used by many Nomads, as well! :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 4-26-2012 at 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish

"Selfishness" is a critical term used to discount self interest. Well said Diane, well said.

Iflyfish


I thought that was my point.

jakecard - 4-26-2012 at 05:50 PM

Sell the car. Buy a mule. Reassess.




Jake

Udo - 4-26-2012 at 06:13 PM

My two centavos...


I don't think the Feds or current (previous Govs) would have put in place such a large pipeline from Vizcaino to Bahia Tortuga if there were no large plans for the bay.
Either case, it does not bode well for the municipalities downstream of the pipeline, if water can not be piped to their locations.

DianaT - 4-26-2012 at 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Udo
My two centavos...


I don't think the Feds or current (previous Govs) would have put in place such a large pipeline from Vizcaino to Bahia Tortuga if there were no large plans for the bay.
Either case, it does not bode well for the municipalities downstream of the pipeline, if water can not be piped to their locations.


Udo, I am not so sure that is the case here. Back in the early 1980's, the daughter of a good friend wrote to the President of Mexico, Miguel de la Madrid. She made the case that BA needed more fresh water as the de-sal plant was no longer sufficient. And it became a major political photo opt for how the rural areas of Mexico were being assisted.

President de la Madrid flew to BCS and met this young lady, her family and other people from BA in Vizcaino---we have a couple of other scanned family photos, but here is the cover of a local political magazine that recorded this meeting.



So between the federal and the local governments, the pipeline project began. So if there was a major project planned, it had to be back in the 1980s.

BTW---this beautiful young letter writing activist now has a daughter of her own and lives in La Paz. Her parents still live in BA and are walking history books. We love visiting with them, which is off the topic at hand.

Oh, when the town first began, the water came from a local rancho, and then came the de-sal plant, and then the water pipe.

On edit---while I don't believe this little girl was solely responsible for the water pipe to Bahia Asuncion, her letter certainly didn't hurt.

[Edited on 4-27-2012 by DianaT]

rts551 - 4-26-2012 at 07:33 PM

great story Diana. I remember when the water line was going in. Within a couple of years, a lot of the communities thought they would also get water...and now here we are.
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by Udo
My two centavos...


I don't think the Feds or current (previous Govs) would have put in place such a large pipeline from Vizcaino to Bahia Tortuga if there were no large plans for the bay.
Either case, it does not bode well for the municipalities downstream of the pipeline, if water can not be piped to their locations.


Udo, I am not so sure that is the case here. Back in the early 1980's, the daughter of a good friend wrote to the President of Mexico, Miguel de la Madrid. She made the case that BA needed more fresh water as the de-sal plant was no longer sufficient. And it became a major political photo opt for how the rural areas of Mexico were being assisted.

President de la Madrid flew to BCS and met this young lady, her family and other people from BA in Vizcaino---we have a couple of other scanned family photos, but here is the cover of a local political magazine that recorded this meeting.



So between the federal and the local governments, the pipeline project began. So if there was a major project planned, it had to be back in the 1980s.

BTW---this beautiful young letter writing activist now has a daughter of her own and lives in La Paz. Her parents still live in BA and are walking history books. We love visiting with them, which is off the topic at hand.

Oh, when the town first began, the water came from a local rancho, and then came the de-sal plant, and then the water pipe.

On edit---while I don't believe this little girl was solely responsible for the water pipe to Bahia Asuncion, her letter certainly didn't hurt.

[Edited on 4-27-2012 by DianaT]

Iflyfish - 4-26-2012 at 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish

"Selfishness" is a critical term used to discount self interest. Well said Diane, well said.

Iflyfish


I thought that was my point.


Indeed, Diane elaborated on it. It is indeed a matter of perspective.

I think we all "hit a wall" at some point when living in another country and another culture. I think it's a normal process and one to be anticipated." This ain't Kansas Toto", no sh.., oh sh.., Grrr and yell at the nearest person who is just doing what they are always doing. We are all to some extent ethnocentric and bump into ourselves a times just as foreigners do when the visit the US.

I think that sanitation and good transportation have done more for the health and quality of life than any other innovations.

Iflyfish

sancho - 4-27-2012 at 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
When in Nevada I see people spending thousands at the slots and tables and then stand in line an hour to save six bucks to eat much lousier[Edited on 4-26-2012 by DavidE]




'Good roads bring bad people, bad roads bring good people'
can't rember who coined it. Easy on the Vegas Buffets.
David, I for one am aware of your yrs. of Mex experience,
but a greenhorn? However, I suppose you are relatively
new here

DavidE - 4-27-2012 at 05:09 PM

Even though I have achieved imigrado status, with the ability to own a business, and now, heck, even vote, I won't do it in a community that I have not lived in long enough to have met 1% of the residents. In Michoacan where I do know many people I still want Jesus mi compadre to proxy for me at reuniones for the ejido, cooperativa, juntas para mangueros (I have 32 trees enough to qualify as an orchard, a huerta de mangos). "david says this" and "david thinks that" goes a lot further than if I had stood up and proposed these things. One such thing was the installation of a fourth topes right as the cruce para peatones. School kids would jump off the combi and dash across Mex 200 without looking. Basta Ya! I went to Cruz our local Delagado, and he countersigned the letter I sent to SCT asking for permission to set the tope (I insisted it be extremely gentle), the tope A proximo signs, and about 300 epoxied amber road reflectors thet are glued within the crosswalk. The little kids now have a chance of not being run over while crossing the street.

For some sad, reason, unfair and enraging as it may be unless a person has influence in Mexico, the SCT will ignore them. This is a lot less true when it comes to extraneous tourists who bring in money. The Mexican government has prioritized communications made by tourists if the communication is performed reasonably and to standards deemed "la costumbre" by the agency. This is kinda tricky -- ordinary letters seem to have little response. It takes a real wing-dinger to get noticed. I put everything I knew into that letter and then had it polished by Gilberto. That gave it the appearance of the letter having been originated by someone of substance (I figured the end justified the means) I have almost no substance :-)

I am what....one five thousandth of whom uses that road? Are my priorities more important than anyone else that use that road? Would not that be the epitome of selfish egotism?

But, and this is a biggie. I do have an R.F.C. I do pay Mexican taxes, and that road is a federal highway or someone that erected fifteen billboards for the SCT and countless km markers made a big mistake by placing billboards and km markers the full length of it.

I stood a chance to get a letter to the SCT. The very method of delivery MexPost, made arrival of that letter in Mexico really stand out.That mailing was initiated by a real amigo I met in a gasolinera in Guerrero Negro whom offered to take the letter and 200 pesos to San Lucas where they do have MexPost and go to the trouble of mailing it off at the oficina de correos. You see, Vizcaino and Guerrero do not have that service. He telephoned me five days later and said the letter went out and "did you want me to mail the receipt to you?" I judged the letter was mailed.

But, another big but --- I am a newbie here. I have no business whatsoever involving myself in the least in local politics like who does what with the water, and why does the delagado's baby-sitter loathe the commandante's maid. There are several thousand resident's here and they are more than capable in complaining about the lack of water and the reasons behind it. My responsibility as I see it is to get a larger tinaca or make an aljibe.

As far as good roads or bad roads, the residents deserve what 99% of the rest of Mexican citizens have. Even the most self-centered, selfish of hypocrites can turn off any at any of the ten thousand terrecerias or brechas leading from Mex 1 or Mex 5, or 19, or 3, or hell, take your pick --- and within one mile be back in the old Baja California. Go another five miles and you'll find Baja California of the 1940's. Ranchos, huertas, ganado. My opinions do not count. People's livelihoods do. Their families, their health. The real treasure of the peninsula lay in her people, I cannot even put a percentage figure on this --- to do so would be absurd.

So yeah, I am a newbie. even in places where everyone knows my name and what I like to eat for freakin' breakfast. This is Mexico, it belongs to the Mexicans, and I'll continue to do whatever pittance I can to help them.

David K - 4-27-2012 at 05:34 PM

Wow, you have done a lot since you left Tecate!

DavidE - 4-27-2012 at 05:58 PM

Yeah, eleven years have passed by rather quickly haven't they? Most of those years are in a community where foreigners are rarely seen, English is simply not spoken, and ninety nine percent of my neighbors support la justicia de LFM. I take the time to stop and say hello to folks, and believe me, by the time I walked home from la tienda, the entire pueblo knew what I had purchased and how much I paid for it. When the caretaker of el pozo para la communidad ran off with the funds for well repairs, and it broke and we went without water for 10 days, I kept silent and hauled water 11 kilometers from Chucutitán. I was told later my silence caused a lot of chisme. They all believed I would complain. i didn't.

Skipjack Joe - 4-27-2012 at 06:01 PM

David,

I'm wondering if there was a less passive way of making your demands than a letter in the mail.

P.S. Are you David Eidell?

DavidE - 4-27-2012 at 07:09 PM

There isn't any other way and I am too old and crabby to waste any more of my life playing go catch the "el snipe" in Mexico. For anything else not related to this subject please U2U me.

coolhand - 4-28-2012 at 08:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
But, complaining about Baja roads is like complaining about the rain in Seattle (lived up there 23 long dreary years)

It will likely make you feel a tad better, but it won't help much with the problem.

Bad Baja roads and dreary Northwest days.....
sort of resonate, one with the other IMO

coolhand - 4-28-2012 at 08:53 PM

And complaining about water in Baja is like complaining about ice in Antarctica.

DavidE - 4-29-2012 at 06:42 AM

Yes.

Especially when the penguins turn it off for no reason at all.

aguachico - 4-29-2012 at 03:28 PM

I have been traveling that road since '04. This was before the big push to pave between BA and BT. The road from Viz to BA was always bad with sand across the road. The road to BT was death, but now it's great.

I'm no civil engineer or geologist, but it seems that the salt flats are the reason for the unusual degradation of the road from Viz to BA. If this is true, then there is no real solution. At least, the pot holes are white and easily seen from a truck.

I'll be in tortugas in July enjoying the best YT fishing in BAJA

Skipjack Joe - 4-29-2012 at 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico

I'll be in tortugas in July enjoying the best YT fishing in BAJA


Oh?

Care to elaborate.

DavidE - 4-29-2012 at 03:47 PM

Having been down Mex 1, and all the other numbers to the point of numbness, I can remember the original brechas, much of the trail had parallels sometimes up to 5 different tracks.

I've seen the pavement gone meaning not there in vast patches between Guerrero Negro and Vizcaino. Between the entroque to tres enriques and punta prieta it was necessary in a pickup truck to come to a full stop and then ease across the crater. The road or any road cannot be fixed by sand sealing or putting a half inch thick "overlay" down. It can only be fixed the same way SCT managed to upgrade Mex 1 and that is with a minimum of 2" of high quality asphalt, no cheating on the percentage of pitch vs aggregate, and no cheating on fully oil saturating bare earth or sand exposed in the pothole. But to let 22 miles of road go to hell while SCT employees busy themselves by whitewashing rock borders around their campos is unacceptable. A decent patch job should last almost a year. Spread oil then sand (no shortage with the sand part) around the patch. SCT knows this, it is SOP on the mainland. If SCT wanted to fix that road, it would. But it's treated like a redheaded stepchild. Thirty years ago I contracted 6 months to CalTrans and watched, listened and learned. The condition of this spur road is no accident and it is not due to salt. Take a look at I-80 as it passes through The Great Salt Lake in Utah. Salt eats concrete 10 times as fast as it does asphalt.

bup top to baja boy & all

captkw - 4-29-2012 at 08:31 PM

WHAT WATER ?? B.C.S is the dryest in history !! and folk's act like fricken ant's,, about it !!!! I hope some rain and like a lot of it in small doze's come into the sur..cow's are dying like flies when I left and it wont rain till at least june ,,if that..bummed..Keith & il Tasha..:cool: