BajaNomad

Anniversary of San Javier

RaicesVivas - 5-2-2012 at 11:20 AM

Come celebrate the foundation of San Javier next Friday, May 11.

Activities include a Cabalgata "Horse ride" from Rancho Nuevo, (first ranch past the paved section of the San Javier Road) to San Javier, beginning at 8 am.

Mass will be held at 11 am, and the University is preparing a "Noche Bohemia" with music and dancing in the orchard behind the mission in the evening.

Hope to see you there.

www.livingrootsbaja.org

Marc - 5-2-2012 at 06:27 PM

Wish I could be there. I love the place!

Bajatripper - 5-3-2012 at 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RaicesVivas
Come celebrate the foundation of San Javier next Friday, May 11.

Activities include a Cabalgata "Horse ride" from Rancho Nuevo, (first ranch past the paved section of the San Javier Road) to San Javier, beginning at 8 am.

Mass will be held at 11 am, and the University is preparing a "Noche Bohemia" with music and dancing in the orchard behind the mission in the evening.

Hope to see you there.

www.livingrootsbaja.org


This is Bullchit. The village fiesta at San Javier is celebrated during the first week of December (we attended the last one).

I'm using stronger-than-usual language here because I remember the same thing being put out last year about this time and am starting to suspect that someone with an economic motive periodically posts this message to lure people up there in the hopes of profiting.

Perhaps someone with a lodge in San Javier?

papafoxtrot - 5-3-2012 at 04:20 PM

Quote from Bajatripper:
"There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies."

Perhaps you could seek this 'truth' before you engage in speculation and slander.

chuckie - 5-3-2012 at 04:52 PM

What the "F" difference does it make? Is another festival at San Javier going to hurt anyone? Of course not...Good for the local folks, fun for the attendees....Turn in your USA attitude at the Border...if you ever cross it..

RaicesVivas - 5-3-2012 at 06:04 PM

Please let me shed some light on the difference between May 11 and December 3rd in San Javier.

December 3rd Is the celebration of Saint Javier, associated with the feast day in the Catholic calendar. In the town of San Javier, there is also a “cabalgata” beginning the 1st of December and a big 3 day festival.

May 11 – Is the day San Javier, the town, was established. Many towns throughout Baja have a celebration honoring the anniversary of their foundation.

As a non-profit working with the community of San Javier to help them protect their cultural identity and chosen life-style, many San Javier inhabits have asked Living Roots to help them promote this event for them. This is a much smaller, and more local festival, but they are proud and willing to share this part of their heritage with a larger community.

Bajatripper - 5-3-2012 at 07:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RaicesVivas
Please let me shed some light on the difference between May 11 and December 3rd in San Javier.

December 3rd Is the celebration of Saint Javier, associated with the feast day in the Catholic calendar. In the town of San Javier, there is also a “cabalgata” beginning the 1st of December and a big 3 day festival.

May 11 – Is the day San Javier, the town, was established. Many towns throughout Baja have a celebration honoring the anniversary of their foundation.

As a non-profit working with the community of San Javier to help them protect their cultural identity and chosen life-style, many San Javier inhabits have asked Living Roots to help them promote this event for them. This is a much smaller, and more local festival, but they are proud and willing to share this part of their heritage with a larger community.


If I am wrong, I apologize. Perhaps you could provide a link or two to back this up? When I questioned the same mention of a festival last year, the link disappeared.

Bajatripper - 5-3-2012 at 08:14 PM

It would appear that niether of us is right on the foundation day of San Javier Mission. I'm coming up with a March 10, 1699 date. So what is really going on up at San Javier on May 11th?

Bajatripper - 5-3-2012 at 08:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
What the "F" difference does it make? Is another festival at San Javier going to hurt anyone? Of course not...Good for the local folks, fun for the attendees....Turn in your USA attitude at the Border...if you ever cross it..


Would that be me you are referring to for turning in a USA attitude at the border "if you ever cross it," chuckie?

As for what difference it makes, little--if, indeed, there is a fetival going on on May 11th for which this newbie (need I remind you?) is trying to get people to go up there to see. If, however, there isn't anything going on in San Javier and this is only a ruse for getting people to come up there in the hopes that it gets late and some have to stay, then I see lots of "difference." Do you, chuckie?

PS: I'm all for the people of San Javier having as many festivals during the year as they think they can make a profit on.

Your style, chuckie, reminds me of someone. Any ideas?

Bajatripper - 5-3-2012 at 08:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by papafoxtrot
Quote from Bajatripper:
"There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies."

Perhaps you could seek this 'truth' before you engage in speculation and slander.


Welcome, Newbie. I will take credit for whomever you really are "joining" this forum to attack me on your VERY FIRST post. But thanks for the reminder.

papafoxtrot - 5-4-2012 at 08:37 AM

Gracias oldtimer, maybe i'll see you at a fiesta of some kind in San Javier!

This "Raicesvivas" organization looks like it has a mission and methods that have the good of the local people in mind. (www.livingrootsbaja.org)

Bajatripper - 5-4-2012 at 04:00 PM

A fellow Nomad has contacted me to tell me she objected to my strong statement over the posting of May 11th as the founding day of the San Javier Mission. While my reaction may have been unusually strong, given the apparent innocence of the thread (as I noted in the post itself), there was a clue as to the background to it.

Last year about this same time a similar post was made, probably by the same person. Since I’ve been attending the Fiestas de San Javier held in the first week of December off and on since 1964 and was aware of Spanish Explorers’ tradition of naming many places after the day on the Spanish calendar that the discovery was made, I assumed (yeah, I know) that the founding days were being celebrated in December. I posted on that thread, questioning the correctness of the day of celebration. The thread was immediately “disappeared.” Since there wasn’t a correction offered, my conclusion was that it must have been a joke. So when I saw the same “joke” appear a second time, around the same time of year, my reaction was “bullchit” (as a lifer sailor, you’ll have to trust me that, for me, “bullchit” is almost a polite term).

As this thread’s originator explained, I was wrong on my assumption and December is nothing more than a celebration of the village’s saint’s day. Raices went on to say that the actual foundation day of the village is May 11th. Of course, I took notice and verified what was being said. I did find out I WAS TOTALLY WRONG about the December-foundation tie-in. If the deal had ended there, a HUGE apology would have been in order on my behalf.

But I didn’t just find out that I was wrong about the foundation day of San Javier, I also found out that Raices was wrong about the day, too. From anything I can find out, it appears the people of San Javier actually consider March 10th as their foundation day.

I was further informed by my sister Nomad that this whole village celebration is for a good cause, to raise money, etc. etc. I’m all for good causes and support them as much as I’m able to. I would never interfere with such causes and apologize if my comment was taken as out of line by the majority of my fellow readers. But I suspect that Raices, papafox and my letter-writer are the same person, so we really don’t have much of a consensus yet.

I visited the website you recommended (livingrootsbaja.org) and, by all appearances, it seems like a worthwhile enterprise and I think it’s great that they’ve decided to help preserve the ranchero culture of Baja California (for a good history on this, visit the Casa de la Cultura on 16th of September and Belizario Dominguez). They were the true “forjadores” of the peninsula. Bu--if it turns out that San Javier’s foundation day is March 10th--then there must be some accountability on your behalf for misrepresenting the truth (that was the whole point of the La Paz article). Or does the truth only matter when “the other side” misuses it?

But I totally support your mission statement on the website.

Paula - 5-4-2012 at 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
A fellow Nomad has contacted me to tell me she objected to my strong statement over the posting of May 11th as the founding day of the San Javier Mission. While my reaction may have been unusually strong, given the apparent innocence of the thread (as I noted in the post itself), there was a clue as to the background to it.

Last year about this same time a similar post was made, probably by the same person. Since I’ve been attending the Fiestas de San Javier held in the first week of December off and on since 1964 and was aware of Spanish Explorers’ tradition of naming many places after the day on the Spanish calendar that the discovery was made, I assumed (yeah, I know) that the founding days were being celebrated in December. I posted on that thread, questioning the correctness of the day of celebration. The thread was immediately “disappeared.” Since there wasn’t a correction offered, my conclusion was that it must have been a joke. So when I saw the same “joke” appear a second time, around the same time of year, my reaction was “bullchit” (as a lifer sailor, you’ll have to trust me that, for me, “bullchit” is almost a polite term).

As this thread’s originator explained, I was wrong on my assumption and December is nothing more than a celebration of the village’s saint’s day. Raices went on to say that the actual foundation day of the village is May 11th. Of course, I took notice and verified what was being said. I did find out I WAS TOTALLY WRONG about the December-foundation tie-in. If the deal had ended there, a HUGE apology would have been in order on my behalf.

But I didn’t just find out that I was wrong about the foundation day of San Javier, I also found out that Raices was wrong about the day, too. From anything I can find out, it appears the people of San Javier actually consider March 10th as their foundation day.

I was further informed by my sister Nomad that this whole village celebration is for a good cause, to raise money, etc. etc. I’m all for good causes and support them as much as I’m able to. I would never interfere with such causes and apologize if my comment was taken as out of line by the majority of my fellow readers. But I suspect that Raices, papafox and my letter-writer are the same person, so we really don’t have much of a consensus yet.

I visited the website you recommended (livingrootsbaja.org) and, by all appearances, it seems like a worthwhile enterprise and I think it’s great that they’ve decided to help preserve the ranchero culture of Baja California (for a good history on this, visit the Casa de la Cultura on 16th of September and Belizario Dominguez). They were the true “forjadores” of the peninsula. Bu--if it turns out that San Javier’s foundation day is March 10th--then there must be some accountability on your behalf for misrepresenting the truth (that was the whole point of the La Paz article). Or does the truth only matter when “the other side” misuses it?

But I totally support your mission statement on the website.



I am the person who called Bajatripper out on his first post. I chose to do it by u2u because I didn't want to advance an argument on this thread. I respect and enjoy Steve's posts on the history of La Paz and Baja in general. He may or not be correct about the date of the founding of San Javier, I wouldn't know.

Living Roots is a great organization. I hope everyone will read the information on the website and learn of the good things that are going on up there. There is a form on the website so you can make a donation or become an ongoing supporter if you wish to.

I have one identity here on Baja Nomad. I do not post as Raices Vivas or as papafoxtrot, I speak only as Paula.

Edit: I removed one short but superfluous sentence.

[Edited on 5-4-2012 by Paula]

chuckie - 5-4-2012 at 07:02 PM

I have to say, I have no idea what Bajatripper is talking about, when he says I sound like someone else, and I am not going to get into the cheap games that seem to be a problem on this forum.

Bajatripper - 5-5-2012 at 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
I have to say, I have no idea what Bajatripper is talking about, when he says I sound like someone else, and I am not going to get into the cheap games that seem to be a problem on this forum.


Oh, chuckie, you are so wise.

Loretana - 5-5-2012 at 02:42 PM

Just a short note.......

I have met and enjoyed time and discussions with the sincere young academic woman who is posting here as "Raices Vivas".

Her motives for announcing the San Javier celebration are completely honorable, and based on her work as a cultural anthropologist. :saint:

papafoxtrot - 5-6-2012 at 07:39 PM

Bajatripper:
I am posting under only one name on this forum and am neither paula or raicesvivas.
The views I express are mine alone.

I'm not sure what the history books say about the actual day someone decided to register san javier as a town, but in a quick search of the internet, I pulled up two articles on previous foundation festivals in san javier, both celebrated around this time of year.

http://realidadbcs.com/2011/05/12/festeja-san-javier-312-ano...

http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/05/11/celebran-aniversario...

David K - 5-7-2012 at 11:31 AM

On May 11, 1699 Padre Piccolo baptized 30 children at Biaundó (today's Rancho Viejo) and marked THAT DAY as the founding of Mision San Francisco Javier.

In 1710, the mission was moved 8 km. south but the name wasn't changed.

From 1744 to 1758 the massive stone church was built.

David K - 5-7-2012 at 11:44 AM

At least back in the 1960's... from the Lower California Guidebook...

FIESTAS

December 3: San Javier. The saint's day of the old mission of that name near Loreto. A colorful local fiesta attended by ranchers from many miles around.

RaicesVivas - 5-8-2012 at 05:41 PM

**Schedule of Events in Celebration of the Foundation of the San Javier Mission**

8:00 am – Cabalgata Rancho Viejo (first ranch after pavement ends) to San Javier, will arrive in San Javier around 10 am. Fun to watch the cowboys come in all dressed up in traditional gear.

11:00 am – Painting workshop for kids – In San Javier (Lizette Inzunza, Director of Culture)

12:00 pm – Mass in San Javier Mission

1:00 pm – Presentation to the Cultural Center and Regional Products (Living Roots)
Visit to Sacred Art Museum

3:00 pm – Culinary Presentation (Pueblo Magicos & CANIRAC)

5:00 pm – Photo presentation (UABCS)

6:00 pm – Showing documentary of “Los Otros Californios” (UABCS/INAH)

8:00 pm – Music by “Grupo Norteno Acustico” from UABCS in the orchard next to mission

10:00 pm – Dance and music on bandstand in San Javier

tiotomasbcs - 5-8-2012 at 05:52 PM

I'm sorry, folks. My post from yesterday somehow was not printed. I'm with you, Tripper!:wow: In southern Baja there are lots of Groovy/Save the Baja and free Yoga and Timeshares? Somehow San Javier and Comondu may better benefit from support and non interference?! Simply spoken just go and visit. Let's go visit, Tripper.:cool:And then we'll go down to Auggies. Sale, Tio

Paula - 5-8-2012 at 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
I'm sorry, folks. My post from yesterday somehow was not printed. I'm with you, Tripper!:wow: In southern Baja there are lots of Groovy/Save the Baja and free Yoga and Timeshares? Somehow San Javier and Comondu may better benefit from support and non interference?! Simply spoken just go and visit. Let's go visit, Tripper.:cool:And then we'll go down to Auggies. Sale, Tio




I hope you are both able to come by and check out the "interference" I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. The crafts and food items made by San Javiereńos will delight and surprise you. For the yoga you should go to Nopolo, and for the timeshares-- well I don't recommend the browsing or buying or selling of timeshares. :saint:

Juanita - 5-9-2012 at 07:03 AM

Yes, Raices Vivas is real. When I first heard of this effort to help local communities develop marketable handicrafts I was glad for the work they were doing but doubtful they could continue very long, as so many good intentions fade. But a couple of years later I visited San Javier with my family and there they were, under an awning in the hot afternoon, the young woman from Raices Vivas and the local people she is consistently and kindly encouraging. We were shown the method of making olive oil and bought wonderful olives and the oil.

The great festival of San Javier in December brings so many people to San Javier there are great crowds. For me, a smaller festival in May is a fine idea. Perhaps our Nomad sceptics will have a chance to attend and become enthusiastic backers of this productive project, which is helping San Javier to bloom in a very appropriate way. I see Lizette Inzuna will be teaching a children's art course. She is a terrific artist. I have one of her paintings and enjoy it every day.

DianaT - 5-9-2012 at 07:43 AM

Raices Vivas sounded like a good organization before whose only goal was to work with and assist the community --- kind of like a private Peace Corp.

It is good to hear from people who have direct experience with them that this is the case and we sure wish them luck. While we can't make this small festival, we hope to visit San Javier again soon --- it has been too long.

OH, last time we were there none of the road was paved. How far is it paved now?

Juanita - 5-10-2012 at 07:24 AM

Last spring the road was paved almost to the small capilla and I think it is probably completed by now.

Paula - 5-10-2012 at 08:04 AM

The road is now paved up to Rancho Nuevo, and I think they have started preparations for the last five miles.

This article is in this morning's Sudcaliforniano, announcing the festival:

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2535866.htm

Any chance of seeing you there Juanita?

David K - 5-10-2012 at 10:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paula
The road is now paved up to Rancho Nuevo, and I think they have started preparations for the last five miles.

This article is in this morning's Sudcaliforniano, announcing the festival:

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2535866.htm

Any chance of seeing you there Juanita?


Perhaps you mean 'Rancho Viejo', which is 5 miles from San Javier and the location of the first (San Javier) mission site from May 11, 1699 to 1710.