BajaNomad

Please pay your Mexican Medical Specialists.

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 09:29 AM

I have received calls for help concerning specialists in Mexico from American patients that have had some very serious problems. One promised to pay a balance of over $2000 American to a Mexican specialist who had performed a necessary operation on credit, but the patient died before they could finish paying the bill, and despite promises from the family to make good on the balance, they never did. The latest fiasco came from a well-meaning friend, who contacted me several times about a friend who had a very serious medical problem. The person had Medicare, but didn't want to go to the US. I urged the person to come into the local Centro de Salud, but they never came. Yesterday I received a frantic call from the patient's friend once again, that they were in a private hospital here in Ensenada, and could I call the specialist to make arrangements for treatment, since they didn't speak Spanish. After calling the specialist, who agreed to see the patient, and wanted to set up several tests which would run over $500 American, he mentioned he needed payment up front. The most embarrassing moment came when the friend told me the patient only had about $50 American, and I had to call back the specialist to let him know.

I am sure most of you know that as of yet, Medicare is NOT accepted in any hospital in Mexico for payment. The hospital did initial treatment of the patient, which was probably at least $500 American, but was not going to get paid obviously. The friend then asked if we could call an ambulance. An ambulance ride to the border is at least $1200 through Dianamed, and payment must be made up front. Medicare does not cover an ambulance ride to the border.

If you do not have savings, you need to register with Seguro Popular. At least in an emergency they can treat you. You cannot expect to go to a private hospital with private physicians and get treated for nothing. I have set up consults with 2 specialists, who are now wary about treating Americans without a initial deposit, for good reason.

woody with a view - 5-26-2012 at 09:31 AM

tell the free loaders to go to the US. we'll take anyone, anytime, for anything!

Freeloaders

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 09:39 AM

Woody, I understand your frustration. But as my father used to say, two wrongs don't make a right. And, by registering with Seguro Popular, you can get most of your medications free in Mexico. Mexico also has EMTALA laws, which means they can't throw a dying person out into the streets, but if you have Seguro Popular and nothing else, they can save your life like they did for Christina Hoff. If you have an FM3 and a Utility Bill, you can get it in a matter of hours, and it might just save your life.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
tell the free loaders to go to the US. we'll take anyone, anytime, for anything!

woody with a view - 5-26-2012 at 09:44 AM

you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!

durrelllrobert - 5-26-2012 at 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If you have an FM3 and a Utility Bill, you can get it in a matter of hours, and it might just save your life.

You forgot to mention that you have to have a CURP number and the INM does not (currently) give these to FM3 holders; only FM2s. That's why Debbie couldn't sign up.

DavidE - 5-26-2012 at 09:46 AM

Time for me now to inquire how much S.P. costs for a year's subscription. Thank you.

mtgoat666 - 5-26-2012 at 09:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1


because health care should be a human right, and state cannot deny health care as a back door end run around the judicial appeals process.

p.s. we are a civilized society, no reason that govt should not provide health care for those who need it.

not paying medical bills after death...

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 09:58 AM

What happened was a good friend of mine had arranged payments with a surgeon and he had agreed on half up front and the other half (paid monthly) to him. She has about $2000 American left to pay, and died suddenly (though was an alcoholic for many years). I agreed to help the family who lived in the Northern United States to arrange for her cremation and get all the paperwork done. I did this only so the doctor, who I had done my internship with, would get the money owed to him. This doctor was a very ethical man, and did everything by the book. The family had money, by the way. I asked them for the money to be paid directly to the surgeon after I had spent countless hours and all of a sudden they didn't want to hear anything about it. So, I let them finish what needed to be done, and her ashes were shipped to the family. I did contact her lawyer, but she never answered me. I guess I could file a final bill with the state of residency of her daughter, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. The Mexican doctor doesn't speak much English so he wouldn't know how to go about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!

FM3

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 10:01 AM

Bob, a poster on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board, Rhonda Lane, said today all she needed was her FM3 and a utility bill. You might ask Debbie to contact her with the specifics.
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If you have an FM3 and a Utility Bill, you can get it in a matter of hours, and it might just save your life.

You forgot to mention that you have to have a CURP number and the INM does not (currently) give these to FM3 holders; only FM2s. That's why Debbie couldn't sign up.

Cost for Seguro Popular??

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 10:03 AM

As far as I know, its free...except I am hearing now its like $500 a year to pay for your FM2 renewal...
Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Time for me now to inquire how much S.P. costs for a year's subscription. Thank you.

BajaBlanca - 5-26-2012 at 03:58 PM

EnsenadaDr

It must be very embarasssing to use your personal name to get someone help and then have the family not pay up.

bad karma and terrible to do to someone.

I want you on my side if I ever need emergency help for Les or myself ... you sound like someone we can count on.

Here is some information I got yessterday in the western onion:

Free Medical Services - Courtesy Baja Pony Express - The President of Mexico ordered that a new free medical service system be implemented and it was, the system is called Seguro Popular which provides doctor consultation and services, hospitalization and medicine for free to each and every person residing in Mexico including foreigners who are residing in Mexico at any Centro de Salud. This free service is available to all foreigners, to acquire it one must present passport, CURP ID card and proof of domicile (electrical or water bill with one`s name on it), it is not necessary to show the No Inmigrate, Inmigrante or Inmigrado Permit issued by immigration or Carta de Naturalizacion; for foreigners who do not have a property there is a 100 pesos charge. To register one must go to the registration center (Centro de Afilicacion) in La Paz, said center is located on the blv. where the Municipal palace (Palacio Municipal) is located and more precisly in front of the Velodromo. - Lic. J.E. Beaulne

woody with a view - 5-26-2012 at 04:03 PM

sounds like Mexico requires RESIDENTS to have documents in order to receive care for free. like i said, debts are not transfered to surviving family members, no matter what.

if the family said they would pay, that is a moral issue.

and i would also want the good Dra. on my side in an emergency!

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 04:17 PM

Sadly, I am only here for a limited time more until early September, after that I will be visiting my son in Australia for a month, he is buying me a Ausrail pass to see the whole continent, and then I will return to Hawaii to work and study for my US Boards.

Debts...

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 04:22 PM

ah yes, I missed the NOT transferred part...ok, well, they have to live with their decisions...
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!

mtgoat666 - 5-26-2012 at 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What happened was a good friend of mine had arranged payments with a surgeon and he had agreed on half up front and the other half (paid monthly) to him. She has about $2000 American left to pay, and died suddenly (though was an alcoholic for many years). I agreed to help the family who lived in the Northern United States to arrange for her cremation and get all the paperwork done. I did this only so the doctor, who I had done my internship with, would get the money owed to him. This doctor was a very ethical man, and did everything by the book. The family had money, by the way. I asked them for the money to be paid directly to the surgeon after I had spent countless hours and all of a sudden they didn't want to hear anything about it. So, I let them finish what needed to be done, and her ashes were shipped to the family. I did contact her lawyer, but she never answered me. I guess I could file a final bill with the state of residency of her daughter, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. The Mexican doctor doesn't speak much English so he wouldn't know how to go about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!


medical providers that lose a patient will find it hard in most cases to get an estate to cough up dough for final bills. that's life, when people die, who knows if the doc screwed up??? the patients family prob won't know, and the docs almost never admit mistakes.

Good point, only...

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 05:57 PM

I was there assisting during the surgery, and followed up after. The patient AGREED to pay the doctor, and I was there when the payments were being made...it was an agreement, and though sadly, the family felt no obligation to follow through, even though I saved them thousands of dollars from coming down here and making numerous trips to the PGR and morgue and funeral home.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What happened was a good friend of mine had arranged payments with a surgeon and he had agreed on half up front and the other half (paid monthly) to him. She has about $2000 American left to pay, and died suddenly (though was an alcoholic for many years). I agreed to help the family who lived in the Northern United States to arrange for her cremation and get all the paperwork done. I did this only so the doctor, who I had done my internship with, would get the money owed to him. This doctor was a very ethical man, and did everything by the book. The family had money, by the way. I asked them for the money to be paid directly to the surgeon after I had spent countless hours and all of a sudden they didn't want to hear anything about it. So, I let them finish what needed to be done, and her ashes were shipped to the family. I did contact her lawyer, but she never answered me. I guess I could file a final bill with the state of residency of her daughter, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. The Mexican doctor doesn't speak much English so he wouldn't know how to go about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!


medical providers that lose a patient will find it hard in most cases to get an estate to cough up dough for final bills. that's life, when people die, who knows if the doc screwed up??? the patients family prob won't know, and the docs almost never admit mistakes.

mtgoat666 - 5-26-2012 at 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I was there assisting during the surgery, and followed up after. The patient AGREED to pay the doctor, and I was there when the payments were being made...it was an agreement, and though sadly, the family felt no obligation to follow through, even though I saved them thousands of dollars from coming down here and making numerous trips to the PGR and morgue and funeral home.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What happened was a good friend of mine had arranged payments with a surgeon and he had agreed on half up front and the other half (paid monthly) to him. She has about $2000 American left to pay, and died suddenly (though was an alcoholic for many years). I agreed to help the family who lived in the Northern United States to arrange for her cremation and get all the paperwork done. I did this only so the doctor, who I had done my internship with, would get the money owed to him. This doctor was a very ethical man, and did everything by the book. The family had money, by the way. I asked them for the money to be paid directly to the surgeon after I had spent countless hours and all of a sudden they didn't want to hear anything about it. So, I let them finish what needed to be done, and her ashes were shipped to the family. I did contact her lawyer, but she never answered me. I guess I could file a final bill with the state of residency of her daughter, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. The Mexican doctor doesn't speak much English so he wouldn't know how to go about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!


medical providers that lose a patient will find it hard in most cases to get an estate to cough up dough for final bills. that's life, when people die, who knows if the doc screwed up??? the patients family prob won't know, and the docs almost never admit mistakes.


well, the patient you made contract with is dead! did you and patient discuss terms of what happened in case of death? you can file a claim with the patient's estate. good luck! takes balls to bleed more money out of the patient after you killed him, eh?

You are really pushing it, Tom..

EnsenadaDr - 5-26-2012 at 06:35 PM

I didn't do any of the surgery, I handed the instruments to the doctor, and the patient lived 6 months till after the arm was reset after she fell. The only reason I posted this was to try and help others. Just because you have passive-aggressive tendencies with lashing out at me because of your own personal problems, that's your bag. I realize nothing is going to be recouped, but the bottom line is that people need to understand why Mexican doctors don't want to do any work on Americans before they pay, and people like you who want to point the finger at someone so they don't have to pay are another reason. The money was going to the orthopedic surgeon directly, not me. Have a great weekend, I know I will.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I was there assisting during the surgery, and followed up after. The patient AGREED to pay the doctor, and I was there when the payments were being made...it was an agreement, and though sadly, the family felt no obligation to follow through, even though I saved them thousands of dollars from coming down here and making numerous trips to the PGR and morgue and funeral home.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What happened was a good friend of mine had arranged payments with a surgeon and he had agreed on half up front and the other half (paid monthly) to him. She has about $2000 American left to pay, and died suddenly (though was an alcoholic for many years). I agreed to help the family who lived in the Northern United States to arrange for her cremation and get all the paperwork done. I did this only so the doctor, who I had done my internship with, would get the money owed to him. This doctor was a very ethical man, and did everything by the book. The family had money, by the way. I asked them for the money to be paid directly to the surgeon after I had spent countless hours and all of a sudden they didn't want to hear anything about it. So, I let them finish what needed to be done, and her ashes were shipped to the family. I did contact her lawyer, but she never answered me. I guess I could file a final bill with the state of residency of her daughter, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. The Mexican doctor doesn't speak much English so he wouldn't know how to go about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!


medical providers that lose a patient will find it hard in most cases to get an estate to cough up dough for final bills. that's life, when people die, who knows if the doc screwed up??? the patients family prob won't know, and the docs almost never admit mistakes.


well, the patient you made contract with is dead! did you and patient discuss terms of what happened in case of death? you can file a claim with the patient's estate. good luck! takes balls to bleed more money out of the patient after you killed him, eh?

Alm - 5-30-2012 at 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
tell the free loaders to go to the US. we'll take anyone, anytime, for anything!

With Medicare, yes. And the only thing they should do is to keep $100 annual evac plan like DAN or Medjet.

Bajatripper - 5-31-2012 at 01:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
As far as I know, its free...except I am hearing now its like $500 a year to pay for your FM2 renewal...
Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Time for me now to inquire how much S.P. costs for a year's subscription. Thank you.


The first year we signed up (three years ago), they did a "socio-economic" study of our family and came up with a figure of 800 pesos. We renewed one year, and the year after that were told that we didn't need to worry about making any payments for two years. No explanation was given and I didn't insist in knowing why.

Jaybo - 5-31-2012 at 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
well, the patient you made contract with is dead! did you and patient discuss terms of what happened in case of death? you can file a claim with the patient's estate. good luck! takes balls to bleed more money out of the patient after you killed him, eh?



You sir, with all due respect, are a bonehead. Go crawl back into your foreskin.

BajaDixon - 5-31-2012 at 09:17 PM

Quote:
well, the patient you made contract with is dead! did you and patient discuss terms of what happened in case of death? you can file a claim with the patient's estate. good luck! takes balls to bleed more money out of the patient after you killed him, eh?


I can only assume you were drunk or high when you wrote this reply. An apology to the lady is in order, sir.

Mula - 6-1-2012 at 05:30 AM

5 of us here in Lopez followed EnsendadDr.s instructions to the letter.

Got the CURP card through the local registrar, had our FM3's (not 2.s), electric bills - even tho' not in our names . . . . and got our Seguro Popular cards (sheet now) valid for 3 years covering catastrophes and everything . . . for free - in February and March.

And have used the service. It is GREAT! Thank you.

prorader - 6-20-2012 at 12:58 PM

There is 2 big posts on Seguro Popular, I have had it for 2 years and have an FM3, also I have paid no fees, I also have a Curp card

prorader - 6-20-2012 at 01:06 PM

EnsenadaDr
I don't know you but reading your posts has been great, your going will be good for your life, but I can see you are going to leave a big hole in this area, and a lot of people will know after you are gone, how much they have lost. Good Luck on your adventure and be a damn good US Doctor. Tim

akshadow - 6-20-2012 at 03:39 PM

If the doctor can find out if there is an estate, or which state and court the estate will be doing probate, he or someone on his behalf should file a claim. All bill or the person are bills of the estate. IF she had nothing there is no way to force family to pay.
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What happened was a good friend of mine had arranged payments with a surgeon and he had agreed on half up front and the other half (paid monthly) to him. She has about $2000 American left to pay, and died suddenly (though was an alcoholic for many years). I agreed to help the family who lived in the Northern United States to arrange for her cremation and get all the paperwork done. I did this only so the doctor, who I had done my internship with, would get the money owed to him. This doctor was a very ethical man, and did everything by the book. The family had money, by the way. I asked them for the money to be paid directly to the surgeon after I had spent countless hours and all of a sudden they didn't want to hear anything about it. So, I let them finish what needed to be done, and her ashes were shipped to the family. I did contact her lawyer, but she never answered me. I guess I could file a final bill with the state of residency of her daughter, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. The Mexican doctor doesn't speak much English so he wouldn't know how to go about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
you make valid points. but going into the doctor without being able to pay for special services reeks of the U.S. system. I'm not advocating people not getting treatment but i do wonder why we treat people on death row with terminal diseases. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90611&page=1

also, when a person dies their debts are not transfered to their heirs. that's what debtors prison was all about. if it is different in Mexico i'd like to hear about it.

have a good weekend!