BajaNomad

Outback Solar...Charge Controller stuck in "snooze" ?

cj5orion - 6-21-2012 at 07:16 AM

Outback vfx 3524 with mate 3

Wednesday morn...noticed the battery's were low.
Charge Controller was "snoozing",1st thing I did was
hit the breaker....starts its "wakeup",then goes to bulk,but
only stays for about a minute.Then flashes a "low light" condition,then "snoozes" ?

Panels are clean and like any other day in Baja...clear and sunny ?

Voltmeter verifies controller is receiving power,(20-22 v)

Tried charging up the batts with the gen to see if the controller would respond,no luck.

Checked all connections....clean and tight.
Did several system shutdowns....complete...no luck ?

Anybody got any ideas ?
I'm totally dependent on gen power right now.

ncampion - 6-21-2012 at 07:30 AM

Sounds like you have done everything that I would have done. Are you positive you are getting power from the panels/combiner box to the Outback? Good connections etc. Snooze indicates that the controller is not sensing sufficient voltage from the panels for it to go into Bulk charging. Not sure where you bought the controller but you can try calling these guys, they are very willing to give info over the phone or email.

http://www.thesolarbiz.com/default.htm

Ask for Tom or his daughter Patty.
Good luck, post the fix when it comes so others can be aware of the problem.

Actually I just noticed that you said the voltage is 20 - 22. But you have a 3524 inverter which is a 24 volt inverter and needs well in excess of 24 volts to charge. How are your panels wired? What is the Vmax of the panels?

[Edited on 6-21-2012 by ncampion]

BajaGringo - 6-21-2012 at 07:32 AM

This is from an outback manual:

MX60 is always SLEEPING

1. Is battery voltage greater than the ABSORB voltage set point (compensated ABSORB voltage)?
If yes, the MX60 will not wake up since the battery voltage is at/above the ABSORB target voltage set point

2. Is the PV voltage greater than the battery voltage by at least 2 volts?
The PV voltage has to be at least 2 volts greater than the battery voltage for the initial wakeup.

3. Check the PV array breaker (or fuse)
Ensure that the PV array breaker (or fuse) is sized appropriately.

4. Which State (in Misc Menu) is it at? Is it transitioning between 00 and 01? Is it in FX-GT mode and connected to a
MATE?
Disconnect MATE for normal operation in FX-GT* mode.
*FX-GT mode is only applicable with a Hub 4 or 10 installation with a Grid-tie compatible MATE.

5. Does the PV array voltage on the display rise with the PV breaker OFF, but reads 000 with the PV breaker on?
If so, the PV array polarity connection on the MX60 maybe reversed or the PV lines could be shorted.

6. Does the PV voltage still read 000 with the PV breaker off after a minute?
Call factory for support

7. Check the short circuit current of the PV array?
Use a multimeter to determine if a short circuit current is detected. The short circuit current test will not harm the array

cj5orion - 6-21-2012 at 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
This is from an outback manual:

MX60 is always SLEEPING

1. Is battery voltage greater than the ABSORB voltage set point (compensated ABSORB voltage)?
If yes, the MX60 will not wake up since the battery voltage is at/above the ABSORB target voltage set point

A=NOPE

2. Is the PV voltage greater than the battery voltage by at least 2 volts?
The PV voltage has to be at least 2 volts greater than the battery voltage for the initial wakeup.

A=YES

3. Check the PV array breaker (or fuse)
Ensure that the PV array breaker (or fuse) is sized appropriately.

A= yep,15 amp breakers,been there "for years",no problems

4. Which State (in Misc Menu) is it at? Is it transitioning between 00 and 01? Is it in FX-GT mode and connected to a
MATE?
Disconnect MATE for normal operation in FX-GT* mode.
*FX-GT mode is only applicable with a Hub 4 or 10 installation with a Grid-tie compatible MATE.

A=connected to mate 3...steady at 00

5. Does the PV array voltage on the display rise with the PV breaker OFF, but reads 000 with the PV breaker on?
If so, the PV array polarity connection on the MX60 maybe reversed or the PV lines could be shorted.

A= nope...steady array voltage at all times

6. Does the PV voltage still read 000 with the PV breaker off after a minute?
Call factory for support

A= ? yea,of course it reads 00 when the breaker is off ?

7. Check the short circuit current of the PV array?
Use a multimeter to determine if a short circuit current is detected. The short circuit current test will not harm the array


A=did this yesterday,alls good

Man...you got a "diff" manual then what I got...I have no useable info about the controller in my manuals.Only some info about accessing the controller thru the mate

Sure wish one of these would have been the problem.

cj5orion - 6-21-2012 at 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncampion
Sounds like you have done everything that I would have done. Are you positive you are getting power from the panels/combiner box to the Outback? Good connections etc. Snooze indicates that the controller is not sensing sufficient voltage from the panels for it to go into Bulk charging. Not sure where you bought the controller but you can try calling these guys, they are very willing to give info over the phone or email.

http://www.thesolarbiz.com/default.htm

Ask for Tom or his daughter Patty.
Good luck, post the fix when it comes so others can be aware of the problem.

Actually I just noticed that you said the voltage is 20 - 22. But you have a 3524 inverter which is a 24 volt inverter and needs well in excess of 24 volts to charge. How are your panels wired? What is the Vmax of the panels?

[Edited on 6-21-2012 by ncampion]


Sorry,bad communicating on my part.
the array is crankin out ....usually 58-59 v. to the controller

larryC - 6-21-2012 at 08:34 AM

You can get Outback specific info here: http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/index.php

and you can download charge controller manuals here:
http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/manuals/#cha...
Good luck with it.
Larry

DavidE - 6-21-2012 at 10:06 AM

If there is a plug connector, try getting some "DE-OXIT" D100 and clean off the contacts. This stuff is not available in Mexico, so try and get some when you get back to the states. It is a miracle for removing salt air corrosion and tarnish from electrical contacts. Radio Shack and Fry's sells the stuff. Be sure to get the D100 and nothing else.

cj5orion - 6-21-2012 at 11:34 AM

not having any luck.

outback support....twice.....has stopped replying to email !
even solarbiz stopped ?
Went thru ALL the outback forums,tried everything they had for
diagnostics and/or repair.....nada

BajaGringo - 6-21-2012 at 11:47 AM

The only thing I could suggest would be to disconnect the controller from all power sources (generator/AC/batteries) and let it sit for 30 minutes before reconnecting it. Maybe it will reset itself??? I have three Xantrex MPPT controllers and although I could run with just two, I split the panels between three. I figure the day will come when one will eventually go on the blink...

Bob and Susan - 6-21-2012 at 03:38 PM

after a hurricane one of mine fried like that

inside its just a circut board

one little piece fails and the unit is dead

get a new controller
end the pain

you could direct wire to the batteries to charge them for now
when full just disconnect the panels

do this until your new unit arrives

capt. mike - 6-21-2012 at 04:11 PM

or....convert to micro inverters - yes spendy but you can get 110v direct from each panel and then devise a charging system while you are using the 110 during daylight and go to batt power at night.

or...do what Bob says, he most always gets these things right.

larryC - 6-21-2012 at 04:41 PM

Yeah, do what Bob says, throw that Outback charge controller away and get a new one. Can I have your old one?
Larry
PS Sometimes they just have to sent back for repair. Outbacks warranty is one of the best in the business. Stuff happens.

baja electrical

captkw - 6-21-2012 at 05:05 PM

A "FLUKE DVM & DEOXIT" should be in every off the grid baja pad !! K&T

[Edited on 6-22-2012 by captkw]

Bob and Susan - 6-22-2012 at 05:09 AM

the old one is gone...guarantee hahahahha

just try to collect

as for repairs ...you can order a new board but its cheaper to just get a new one

the newer ones are better too...the "bugs" ironed out...

i would open the dead one to see if mud wasps didnt build a nest inside
i was watching a solar tech do a repair on mine and he showed me a couple of bad units...mud wasps...they get into everything

BigWooo - 6-22-2012 at 06:13 AM

I'm a little late to this conversation, but I had the same problem with one of my older Outback charge controllers. The "snooze" problem was common for a certain run of controllers. I doubt you will be able to fix it. When it happened to mine, they sent me a new board and I replaced it. I wouldn't try to replace it yourself if you're not much of a hands on person, but it's definitely less expensive than replacing the charge controller.

I have since replaced my controllers for the newer Flexmate version. Definitely worth the investment. I'd suggest replacing it if you have the $$.

cj5orion - 6-22-2012 at 06:48 AM

Havent tested this yet but thought I'd post it anyhow.

Yesterday...talkin to a "neighbor" down here,mentioned my "snooze"
problem.
Without hesitation,his reply..."ya got a dead short in a battery...seen it many times,find the bad battery"

Now....by coincidence...I've already taken the opportunity to completely
disconnect the batts from the system.
Starting from fully charged,I've been doing hourly voltmeter test.
We have 28 sealed AGM batts in banks of 4
EVERY... bank had a bad battery in it !
Now I'm gonna move some batts around....giving me 2-3 good banks
and try firing up and see what happens ?

I'll keep ya posted !

larryC - 6-22-2012 at 06:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
the old one is gone...guarantee hahahahha

just try to collect

as for repairs ...you can order a new board but its cheaper to just get a new one

the newer ones are better too...the "bugs" ironed out...

i would open the dead one to see if mud wasps didnt build a nest inside
i was watching a solar tech do a repair on mine and he showed me a couple of bad units...mud wasps...they get into everything


I don't know what type equipment you use at your place, but I use all Outback stuff and with the few problems I have had, they have repaired it no charge. Even when the equipment is out of the 5 year warranty. For me they have been excellent. cj didn't say if his controller was an MX 60 or the newer FM series, but I have no doubt that Outback will fix it, probably at no charge other than what it costs to send it back.
Larry

CJ5ORION

captkw - 6-22-2012 at 07:22 AM

YEP,THE GUY IS RIGHT !! "seen it many times" is a understatment..and makes the regulator go bad and they (reg) can go bad from heat,bugs,rats and bad install !! K&T

cj5orion - 6-22-2012 at 09:36 AM

well...I rearranged some batts...
got 2 banks hooked back up with all good batts
repowered....no luck.

Bob and Susan - 6-22-2012 at 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC

I don't know what type equipment you use at your place, but I use all Outback stuff and with the few problems I have had, they have repaired it no charge. Even when the equipment is out of the 5 year warranty. For me they have been excellent. cj didn't say if his controller was an MX 60 or the newer FM series, but I have no doubt that Outback will fix it, probably at no charge other than what it costs to send it back.
Larry



so what is the phone number and address i send it
i just looked at mine today in the garage
i can have it in the usa in a week or two for shipping

ill go to town and call outback if its that easy

i really dont think they will assist
they havent assisted any of my neighbors

cj5orion - 6-22-2012 at 01:26 PM

I for one...am VERY disappointed with Outbacks service via email !
TWICE...I contaced them about my problem....
A few cordial emails,then..."can you call me ?"
"no I cant...skype doesnt work that well,email is it"

no more replies....TWICE !
NOT IMPRESSED !!!!!!

BajaBlanca - 6-22-2012 at 05:36 PM

maybe you can do a live "chat" with them ???? Using facebook or gmail, the response is instantaneous and that might be more viable for them.

good luck.

larryC - 6-23-2012 at 07:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Quote:
Originally posted by larryC

I don't know what type equipment you use at your place, but I use all Outback stuff and with the few problems I have had, they have repaired it no charge. Even when the equipment is out of the 5 year warranty. For me they have been excellent. cj didn't say if his controller was an MX 60 or the newer FM series, but I have no doubt that Outback will fix it, probably at no charge other than what it costs to send it back.
Larry



so what is the phone number and address i send it
i just looked at mine today in the garage
i can have it in the usa in a week or two for shipping

ill go to town and call outback if its that easy

i really dont think they will assist
they havent assisted any of my neighbors


You can reach them by phone at 360-618-4363, probably be best if you call them and get the address yourself to make sure it is right.
What charge controller do you have? An older MX 60 or the newer FM 60 or FM 80?

Bob and Susan - 6-23-2012 at 10:45 AM

older 24v mx 60...doesnt change the voltage from the panels

oladulce - 6-23-2012 at 11:25 AM

BigWooo had to wait til the planets were aligned to be able to call Outback on Skype from BCS, and the other time he just used our satellite phone. Whenever he's called he's spoken with a technician who knows her stuff and helped figure out the problem. The technical dept is more telephone oriented, but customer service has been responsive to email.

You will have to call Outback to get a Return Authorization number before you send anything back to them.

[Edited on 6-23-2012 by oladulce]

larryC - 6-23-2012 at 04:07 PM

Cj
After looking at my manuals to refresh my memory, it seems that the MX and the FM controllers do basically the same thing. The snooze mode is just a waiting period for the CC as it waits for the solar array to produce enough amps so that there is something for the controller to do. This usually happens in the mornings as the sun comes up the panels start making voltage but very little amps, usually less than 1. The charge controller "wakes up" senses that there are not enough amps and goes into "snooze" mode. This happens a few times in the mornings until the panels produce enough amps for the CC to operate, usually more that 2 amps.
If your CC is not seeing enough amps then it will stay in "snooze" mode. If you are certain that there is not a loose connection between the array and the charge controller then you will probably have to send it in. One thing you could try is to disable the snooze mode. You can do that on the MX 60 by going into the "advanced" menu then click "next" till the snooze appears, then click the "mode" button till you see "disable" that should disable the snooze mode.
On the FM series CC's you don't have the disable option, but you can access the snooze screen by going through the "advanced" menu and click the "go" button till you get to "snooze mode" then click the "amp" button and choose the .2 value. On both charge controllers the password is 141.
If the charge controller starts working but shows a very small amp value, you either have a bad connection somewhere between the array and the charge controller or a bad charge controller that will have to be sent in for repair.
Good Luck and I hope this helps,
Larry

larryC - 6-23-2012 at 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
older 24v mx 60...doesnt change the voltage from the panels


Bob
What happens when you go through the sequence to change the default 12v to your 24v?
I have the MX60 manual in a pdf file, would you like me to send it to you?
Larry

Bob and Susan - 6-23-2012 at 04:35 PM

no but thanks
mine fried in the hurricane a few years ago

its stuck on snooze too
i've had ALOT of people look at it
it needs a circut board

but no one seems to know where to send and the cost till they receive it

it was cheaper to replace the unit on ebay

larryC - 6-23-2012 at 04:46 PM

"Fried in a hurricane" answers a lot of questions for me. Its not just a quirk, but an "event" happened and killed it. I still would call Outback and see what they say. Nothing to lose but the cost of a phone call.
Good luck,
Larry