BajaNomad

trickle charge/sealed batteries

volcano - 6-23-2012 at 06:17 AM

anyone have any experience in leaving their batteries long term with a small solar trickle charge set up...rv or otherwise?
Questions thereof: are sealed batteries the best bet to be left alone without anyone checking into the situation? Do sealed batteries only run into frying problems when in use in extreme heat?
Is it more than likely that wiring or other will screw up and something would go wrong with this set up anyway in a 10 month absence?

Bob and Susan - 6-23-2012 at 07:00 AM

sealed batteries are conventional acid batteries
the caps are just harder to get off

dont confuse these with AGM batteries that you cannot service

the more acid in a battery the better it is
so
the smaller batteries dont last or work as well as LARGE batteries

solar use is not the same as car use

BATTERIES

captkw - 6-23-2012 at 07:35 AM

BATTERIES & BOATS ARE IN THE THE SAME GROUP OF LIFE ON THIS PLANET..AS A WOMEN !! WE ALL LOVE THEM......BUT DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM !! FIRST OFF ITS NOT REALLY A 12 VOLT SYSTEM !! MORE OF A 13 VOLT..IF YOUR BATT IS READING 12.1 VOLTS IT'S DEAD !! AND TO ANSWER YOUR ? A SMART CHARGER SET TO ONE OF THE THREE TYPES OF BATTERIES THAT ARE WIDELY USED IS YOUR BEST CHOICE..I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU CHECK OUT A MARINE STORE FOR SUCH A UNIT..VERY WELL MADE UNITS THAT WORK !! WHEN YOU HAVE VESSEL WITH 6 BATTERIE BANK'S..(LOTS$) YOU WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM..A HOUSE SOLAR SYSTEM IS CHEAP AND SMALL VS A YACHT!! YOU MIGHT PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE FOR A MARINE UNIT BUT IN THE LONG RUN ITS CHEAPER AND MOST FOLKS DONT THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT A HOUSE ON THE BEACH IS A MARINE ENVIROMENT. A GOOD SMART CHARGER USALLY FLOAT CHARGE A BATT AT 13.2 --13.0 FOR A LONG BATT LIFE AND REMEMBER THE FASTEST WAY TO KILL A BATT IS KEEPING IT UNDER CHARGED AS THE PLATES WILL SULFATE AND NEVER COME BACK!! K&t

bajaguy - 6-23-2012 at 07:52 AM

You want a battery tender/maintainer, not a float charger

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0128-Plus-Charger/d...

BATTS

captkw - 6-23-2012 at 08:04 AM

A BATTERY TENDER/MAINTAINER IS FLOAT CHARGING THE BATTERY !! AS A MARINE ELECTRICIAN & ELECTRICAL SPECIALIST.. I SEE MORE BATTERIES KILLED FROM BEING UNDER CHARGED THAN I SEE BEING OVER CHARGED.. NOT THAT IT DOSN'T HAPPEN!! K&T :cool:

[Edited on 6-23-2012 by captkw]

Hook - 6-23-2012 at 08:25 AM

Do you already have a solar charge controller? Or are you considering getting a small solar panel and allowing it to charge your batteries while you are gone? Or, do you have access to 120v and you are asking what type of charger to buy to maintain your batteries? What kind of sealed batteries are they; just "no maintenance" batteries or gel or AGM?

You need to give us more information.

[Edited on 6-23-2012 by Hook]

volcano - 6-23-2012 at 09:22 AM

it is a near ocean cabin, that I am only at for a month a year. I have not bought anything yet, am just trying to be practical with my choices, and don't want to pay a fortune for a caretaker to check often on things. I was advised to trickle charge a battery in my absence...but I'm just not sure on the practicality of leaving something going like that hoping it all stayed connected as it should. the cabin is wired for 110, but I'm looking at a small 12 v set up till I'll be spending more time there.

Bob and Susan - 6-23-2012 at 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
BATTERIES & BOATS ARE IN THE THE SAME GROUP OF LIFE ON THIS PLANET..AS A WOMEN !! WE ALL LOVE THEM......BUT DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM !! FIRST OFF ITS NOT REALLY A 12 VOLT SYSTEM !! MORE OF A 13 VOLT..IF YOUR BATT IS READING 12.1 VOLTS IT'S DEAD !! AND TO ANSWER YOUR ? A SMART CHARGER SET TO ONE OF THE THREE TYPES OF BATTERIES THAT ARE WIDELY USED IS YOUR BEST CHOICE..I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU CHECK OUT A MARINE STORE FOR SUCH A UNIT..VERY WELL MADE UNITS THAT WORK !! WHEN YOU HAVE VESSEL WITH 6 BATTERIE BANK'S..(LOTS$) YOU WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM..A HOUSE SOLAR SYSTEM IS CHEAP AND SMALL VS A YACHT!! YOU MIGHT PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE FOR A MARINE UNIT BUT IN THE LONG RUN ITS CHEAPER AND MOST FOLKS DONT THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT A HOUSE ON THE BEACH IS A MARINE ENVIROMENT. A GOOD SMART CHARGER USALLY FLOAT CHARGE A BATT AT 13.2 --13.0 FOR A LONG BATT LIFE AND REMEMBER THE FASTEST WAY TO KILL A BATT IS KEEPING IT UNDER CHARGED AS THE PLATES WILL SULFATE AND NEVER COME BACK!! K&t



by reading this...you probably dont live on solar or use batteries for energy

voltage as very little to do with the actual charge and condition of the batteries

voltage is ONLY an indicator that you CAN charge the batteries

you need a hydrometer to check the condition of batteries
you cannot tell if a string of batteries is charged or not by just voltage

..as for the cost of solar batteries...you havent been to the solar store lately...my surettes are $1500usa each right now

sometimes a "smart charger" is not the best solution...some batteries NEED a BLAST of power to get them back online...smart chargers with their smart circut boards cannot do this:light:

Bob and Susan - 6-23-2012 at 10:39 AM

if i was there only a month a year i'd take my batteries home with me...there you can service them...no need to let them rot in an empty cabin

volcano - 6-23-2012 at 03:08 PM

not usually able to drive there...usually fly in...so taking them with me would not usually be an option. I think the word rot is really a clue to your answer...thanks as always.

I'm still needed feedback on how well a sealed battery might fare on a trickle charger without someone looking in on it for 11 months.

Bob and Susan - 6-23-2012 at 03:49 PM

the bigger the battery (water compartments)
the longer it lasts

sealed batteries are just water batteries that you cant water
they fail in hot climates...so do agm batteries

having a care-taker look after batteries has several advantages

he ONLY needs to water the batteries once a month
watering more often isn't good anyway

while he's there he can flush the toilet and keep the septic operating
when you dont use those things they tend to smell

he's also a security guy...people KNOW when someone is servicing a home...they treat it differently than when someone leaves it completely empty..."those rich bastards dont need the stuff inside...they just leave"

i'd just buy some good batteries...set up your system using a good charge controller...run some lights at night on timers...and let it go

the batteries will last as long as they last

Hook - 6-23-2012 at 06:23 PM

So, it's wired for 110v? Does that mean that you HAVE 110v there? Or not? :?:

to bob and susan

captkw - 6-23-2012 at 06:33 PM

bob,as a marine electricain and electrical specialist and was hooking up and repairing solar systems on the east cape since the mid 80,s..yep..your correct..I dont know anything about batteries....so with that said I will crawl back in my cave and start the fire!!

[Edited on 6-25-2012 by captkw]

comitan - 6-23-2012 at 07:39 PM

AGM's, small panel40W, controller.(Morningstar)

volcano - 6-24-2012 at 06:34 AM

soulpatch...are your agm's sealed?

I have a caretaker do a walk around the shuttered cabin twice a month now @ $20 per month....jobs added on kick her price up to $80 per month X 12 is something I'm hoping to avoid. (no toilet to flush...exterior composting toilet)

thanks for all the answers..it all helps, really.

Pompano - 6-24-2012 at 07:22 AM

AGM's would be a good choice when sailing or boating...sealed is best when turned turtle. :rolleyes:

All off-grid homeowners posting here are good sources of info. In addition, for your cabin, check with the experts at Arizona Sun and Wind for some of the best home solar advice on the planet. Technology is advancing very fast on this topic, so product improvements change frequently. What was in use last year is extinct already.

larryC - 6-24-2012 at 07:41 AM

Volcano
AGM batteries are sealed batteries, commonly referred to as VRLA batteries, which means valve regulated lead acid. They are usually very robust and are the battery of choice for large industial companys that have to have a reliable battery back up power source. There are small AGM 12v batteries on the market, but for the most part they are 3 to 4 times the price of a deep cycle flooded lead acid battery.
The big advantage to AGM batteries is that they are virtually mainainence free, ie no corrosion to clean, no water to add to the cells, and if charged properly they have a long life. The disadvantages are that they are very voltage sensitive to being over charged. If they are over charged they try to off gas and once that happens the cell will start drying out and go bad prematurely. To prevent over charging you need to use a good charge controller and in conjunction with that charge controller you should also use an RTS, or remote temperature sensor, which allows the controller to drop the voltage to the batteries in hot weather and raise the voltage to the batteries in cold weather. Unfortunately in your proposed usage of once a year this is probably more than you want to spend.
If I was in your situation I would try just getting a costco automotive battery, a 50 watt solar panel and a cheap charge contoller off of ebay. That battery will supply lights for your once a year visit. If the batery only lasts a couple of years no big deal they aren't too expensive to replace. A second option might be to just get a little Honda 1000 generator and use it for your power needs.
Good luck,
Larry

choyero - 6-24-2012 at 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
If I was in your situation I would try just getting a costco automotive battery, a 50 watt solar panel and a cheap charge contoller off of ebay. That battery will supply lights for your once a year visit. If the batery only lasts a couple of years no big deal they aren't too expensive to replace. A second option might be to just get a little Honda 1000 generator and use it for your power needs.
Good luck,
Larry


x2...lived this way for 4 yrs fulltime. get 2 6v costco golf car batteries wire them up to 12v, install a cheap invertor and use the generator and a standard 12v battery charger to charge the batteries. run the generator a few hrs a day, while charging the batts. We ran a honda eu2000, we'd throw in a liter of fuel and let it run out, it was generally enough time to charge the batteries for the evening movies.

outside the cost of a generator...the system costs well under $500, and takes up very little space. No solar panels needed, but easily added with a charge controller and small panel.

Santiago - 6-24-2012 at 10:43 AM

I know this is not germane to the topic, but don't discount the value of tinkering around - if you like to do this sort of stuff, then a solar system will provide you hours of enjoyment.

edm1 - 6-24-2012 at 11:46 AM

Volcano, you did not state the purpose of keeping the battery charged all year. You stated the cabin is wired for 110V but that is insignificant to trickle charging.

If you intend to use the batteries for a whole month, that a lot of use and requires a solar charging system and an inverter or a generator. If you just want to trickle charge them so that thay stay fresh, i.e. they don't die or get sulfated then so be it. Just make sure your trickle charger has a sealed / agm option and, as suggested earlier, a temperature probe. If you go with gel, make sure also it has an a gel type option. Flooded batteries require different set points for the different stages of charging. Since you stated you will be investing in a more elaborate ppwer system, this may be the time now to at least get a good charge controller.

[Edited on 7-14-2012 by edm1]

choyero - 6-24-2012 at 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
It is a ton of fun.... if you have the hours....:light:


...or headaches depending on how you look at it. I've lived off the grid in baja for long enough to know I would kill to be on the grid in my off the grid location. Life would be so great with UNLIMITED electricity!

AC and multiple fans at the flick of a switch at any hr of the day with no "solar power anxiety" would be heaven in the upcoming months.

Best advice is to keep it small and simple until you need it.

volcano - 6-24-2012 at 07:13 PM

the trickle charge was to just keep battery(s) from dying, and healthy in my absense. My regular panels would be packed into the cabin, and out of harms way (hurricane and hands). It seems that I should go witha minimal system until I can spend more time there.
You are all great help...thanks for the options and opinions