BajaNomad - solar power info request

solar power info request

BajaBlanca - 7-1-2012 at 09:42 AM

Hi folks, we just moved into our new house and it has solar power. we are newbies at using solar and could use some insight as to YOUR experience:

how many panels?
do you use some kind of automatic sun tracker so that the panels are always facing the sun?
how many watts of solar panels are needd for charging eight 6 volt golf cart batteries?

Folks, these are my husband's questions and I told him for sure there would be some expert advice here. I just want everything to work. Pics of the new house later - it is STUNNING.

DavidE - 7-1-2012 at 09:47 AM

BajaBlanca please U2U me. I have done solar voltaic installations to 10 KW in size. People have said I pretty much know what I am doing. Glad to help.

Bajajorge - 7-1-2012 at 10:00 AM

I'm not a solar guru, but I have a medium sized solar setup at my place. Nearest electric pole is about a mile away. I have 6 T105 batteries, with 500watts worth of solar panels, no tracker. During Spring/early Summer they recharge from 12.2v to full charge by 10AM. During Fall/Winter they go back to full charge by about 1-2PM.

As for how much you need is up to you. With my set up I have to forget using an electric coffee pot, toaster, microwave and AC. When I want to use stuff like that I fire up my 4000watt generator.

It's all in what you want to do.

larryC - 7-1-2012 at 10:29 AM

Bajablanca
Your question is not nearly as easy as most would think.
Is your system wired as 12v, 24v or 48v? Easy way to tell is by the model # on your inverter. Should tell you the voltage. You should have somewhere near 800 to 1000 watts of panels to get a good charge on those batteries according to the Trojan web site. Panels are so cheap right now I don't think I would mess with a tracker, just buy more panels.
Here is Trojans web address for info on charging batteries properly. http://www.trojanbattery.com/BatteryMaintenance/Charging.asp...
Hope this helps
Larry

willardguy - 7-1-2012 at 10:31 AM

anything davidE can't help you with, northern arizona wind and sun can. its a great forum from beginner to pro.

rts551 - 7-1-2012 at 10:38 AM

Have Les check with all your friends in La Beliza. Systems from whole house 220 ($$$$) to minimal 12 volt lighting.

ncampion - 7-1-2012 at 10:40 AM

You should always work backwards when sizing solar projects. First figure out what your daily use is, get inverters to cover that and sufficient batteries to manage the load at night. Only then do you get panels and controllers with sufficient wattage to recharge the batteries. Oh and BTW figure at least 50% safety margine on everything. I have a 6000 watt system for our off grid home in Loreto and we use AC at night with no generator run. It can be done.

Bob and Susan - 7-1-2012 at 01:00 PM

no...you cannot run an ac unit on solar without draining the batteries at night

even the smallest ac unit uses 5 amps...that will drain the batteries in about 6 hours

for ac you need a generator

i have a question about your solar system...
did you buy the batteries yet
inverter...charge controlers...panels

DavidE - 7-1-2012 at 01:33 PM

5,000 BTU 488 run watts 87% conversion efficiency factor of the inverter, limited by 50% amp hour drawdown limit on flooded lead acid batteries.

530 amp hours X2 = 1,060 amp hours 12 hours continuous. Ten GC-220 batteries dedicated to running the A/C only and absolutely nothing else. CEF losses and total watt hours/day determine the size of the array. The presence of an MPPT controller, and wire line losses also must be factored. Same for temperature compensation of the electrolyte for quiescent charge loss. Equalization adds to the panel capacity demand. There is always error in theoretical workups.

All of this, meaning the chemistry going on in the battery, has to be understood and managed without overwhelming the end user. No one wants to be a slave to a bunch of batteries, array of panels and an inverter. Guesswork means heartbreak, and disappointment coupled with a flat wallet. The user has to be audited and the system has to be intelligently sized. Protection against salt air is crucial. It's not hard to do, but salt air will ruin a system in months.

I've seen cloud edging utterly destroy a five hundred dollar controller in minutes. "But it was sized correctly!" was the wail from the installer. Blanca is smart asking for help. A wrong solar system is worse than a hole to throw money in.

The ONLY WAY to determine the success of a system is if and when it delivers that maximum amount of service over the longest period of time, for the least amount of money.

ncampion - 7-1-2012 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
no...you cannot run an ac unit on solar without draining the batteries at night

even the smallest ac unit uses 5 amps...that will drain the batteries in about 6 hours

for ac you need a generator

Bob, next time you are in Loreto, stop in and see me. I'll let you sleep in one of our air conditioned (1 ton mini-split)guest rooms that we have been using for two summers now using only power from our panels and battery bank. It's all a matter of doing the math.

ncampion

captkw - 7-1-2012 at 02:35 PM

Hola,not sure as I get your name ?? but ,yes IT can be done,,but not the normal system !! and you are right..It is in the math AND money!!!! and sometimes to the end user/owner I recommend a true sine wave unit with a GOOD genset..to keep up during Low Lu periods....K & T

El Camote - 7-1-2012 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge
With my set up I have to forget using an electric coffee pot, toaster, microwave and AC. When I want to use stuff like that I fire up my 4000watt generator.

It's all in what you want to do.

BJ, we had a similar size system in the Baja house except the panels were only 450 watts. I found an electric drip coffee maker that used an insulated carafe rather than glass carafe and heating element. The only electric it needed was about 3 minutes to heat the water. Worked great with our system. On those rare winter mornings when the voltage was too low, I would just heat the water on the stove top then pour through the filter into the insulated carafe. This is the type
I mean although not the same model.

Also used a toaster and microwave. No problem at all just not at the same time! I mounted a voltmeter in the kitchen so I could keep track of the batteries.

Bob and Susan - 7-1-2012 at 03:35 PM

here is my experience with solar powering ac...

the neighbor lived in a trailer

he had 16 six volt trojans
outback inverter and controler
16- 185w solar panels
one panel for each battery

the 5000btu ac unit ran all night but the batteries were dead in the morning

he was able to raise the charge partially by the evening but had to turn off the unit during the day...during that time the trailer heated up

remember the math used in the example is at 70f not 108f
batteries and panels do weird things when its hot
heat kills batteries

the batteries could not power a house and the ac unit
the continues large draw lowers the voltage and drains the batteries

lower voltage increases the temp (amps) in the inverter...
he even had one inverter fail...we figured it overheated...
outback waranted it

nchampion...what does your hydrometer say in the morning
remember voltage is ONLY an indicator that you CAN charge the batteries

[Edited on 7-1-2012 by Bob and Susan]

DavidE - 7-1-2012 at 04:00 PM

Whoa Hoss, I'm a retired battery design engineer. Elevated thermal issues on a flooded lead antimony battery do not degrade performance, period. Charging has to cease when electrolyte temperature approaches 50C, that's 122F

A dozen of anything is meaningless, unless all the batteries were in good condition, started out fully charged, and then one can start to wonder about additional loads like lights, fans, and water pumps. This isn't guesswork. it is hard, cold, cruel, engineering science. I had to crunch numbers for decades, resolving issues like antimonial poisoning of negative plates, plate paste composition on time delivery issues, greening ambient temperature and humidity, and most of all certifying test results using NIST documented apparati and criteria.

My company subcontracted to Trojan, US Battery, ABC, Ramcar, Globe Union, and was in contact with Johnson Controls when I had to close it down due to my getting ill.

Exide used to run Skipjack submarines, for many hours on stupid 7% antimony lead acid batteries seventy years ago. Fairbanks Morse engines, and Westinghouse motor generators.

When I wrote above, that 10 GC-220 golf car batteries, fully charged, will operate a 5,000 BTU A/C with at least a 9.6 EEF for 12 hours without discharging the batteries more than 50 percent I did not stutter. The subject of recharging the batteries, according to the Peukert Factor assigned to the discharge has to due entirely with the CEF, the Charge Efficiency Factor. It must correlate with the design of the battery. The battery must not remain discharged for any length of time or risk crystallization of sulfates on the plates. When appropriate the cell must be equalized or desulfated. This process is specialized and CAN NOT BE DONE AUTOMATICALLY. It is a regimen of using 5% of total amp hour capacity applied in constant AMPERAGE to a fully charged sulfated battery until one of the following happens.

The electrolyte specific gravity reverts to OEM density

16.0 volts is attained

50C or 122C is reached

The charge shall be terminated

This is appropriate for a .110" positive plate 5% antimonial flooded lead acid battery.

end

edm1 - 7-1-2012 at 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
5,000 BTU 488 run watts 87% conversion efficiency factor of the inverter, limited by 50% amp hour drawdown limit on flooded lead acid batteries.

530 amp hours X2 = 1,060 amp hours 12 hours continuous. Ten GC-220 batteries dedicated to running the A/C only and absolutely nothing else. CEF losses and total watt hours/day determine the size of the array. The presence of an MPPT controller, and wire line losses also must be factored. Same for temperature compensation of the electrolyte for quiescent charge loss. Equalization adds to the panel capacity demand. There is always error in theoretical workups.

All of this, meaning the chemistry going on in the battery, has to be understood and managed without overwhelming the end user. No one wants to be a slave to a bunch of batteries, array of panels and an inverter. Guesswork means heartbreak, and disappointment coupled with a flat wallet. The user has to be audited and the system has to be intelligently sized. Protection against salt air is crucial. It's not hard to do, but salt air will ruin a system in months.

I've seen cloud edging utterly destroy a five hundred dollar controller in minutes. "But it was sized correctly!" was the wail from the installer. Blanca is smart asking for help. A wrong solar system is worse than a hole to throw money in.

The ONLY WAY to determine the success of a system is if and when it delivers that maximum amount of service over the longest period of time, for the least amount of money.

Good info. You know wgat you're talking about David.

edm1 - 7-1-2012 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
. . . .
the 5000btu ac unit ran all night but the batteries were dead in the morning . . .

[Edited on 7-1-2012 by Bob and Susan]

This would not happen if the system was designed properly, unless the inverter malfunctioned, and they rarely do. When they malfunction, they usually turn off the system and that would not cause (rather protect from) a dead battery bank in the morning.

DAVID E

captkw - 7-1-2012 at 04:32 PM

Hola,,You like me must get frustrated when talking to most folk's..I think I can safely say, most people do not read/study about batt's and belive a lot of wife tells..and the technoligy is rapidly changeing..I have to keep on my toe's with the new stuff !! never boring..thats for sure..btw good info!!! me,I learn every day and try not to fall behind....K&T :cool:

PS.am I correct in saying sulfate on the plates is the leading batt fail?? and cold is WOSRE than heat in general ???

[Edited on 7-1-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 7-2-2012 by captkw]

BajaBlanca - 7-1-2012 at 04:44 PM

wow...so much information. thank you. I will pass all this information onto Les ... thank goodness we are on the Pacific side and will more likely need a heater once in while in the winter rather than an air conditioner. ever. But I would like to be able to use a microwave, the TV, internet.

I don't mind sideline questions at all - in my opinion it just adds to general knowledge. so anyone, pls feel free to ask any generator or solar power related question.

panels really are cheap right now, aren't they ? we got a really good deal and it looks like we should have gotten more of them. oh well ! we may have to make a trip up north.

we did have the generator on for a while last night and there were popping noises, loud ones, in various locations thorughout the house and then the smell of burnt rubber. It was panic time since we have NO water pump, it decided to conk out. we did go get the fire extinguishers from the B&B, but the smell eventually went away. Although we searched for burned wires today, we found nada.

maspacifico - 7-1-2012 at 05:43 PM

BajaBlanca! I'm not an electrician but live on solar. Popping noises and the smell of burnt rubber isn't normal solar living. Something is wrong. Shut it down and move back into where you were til you get an electrician out there! Really.

DavidE - 7-1-2012 at 07:00 PM

Bajablanca, keep me supplied with cold water and I'll come out and check your system if you wish. Is the road badly washboarded? My piece-of-you-know-what car will commit seppuko if it endures too much ondas de terreceria. Hour and a half? How many kilometers?

Do not attempt to use the genset agreeing with the comments above.

You will need a PURE SINE WAVE inverter to make the microwave work like it does on generator power. The inverter must be rated at a higher wattage than the microwave. Some use a thousand watts, others use twelve hundred watts. The other type of inverter is called a Modified Sine Wave inverter. They are much more common and less expensive. I can bake a large potato in 6 minutes with house power or a pure sine wave inverter. A MSW inverter requires double the time. A MSW inverter will also blow out electric blanket controls. I recommend getting a PSW inverter just to operate the stuff that absolutely needs one. Use your existing inverter for everything else. A pure sine wave inverter makes better electricity than any generator short of a critical use generator that costs as much as your house. The problem is called "harmonic distortion". All but inverter type small generators have problems in this area as well as with voltage and frequency. I believe your generator did something evil and the voltage went way up. Your system may have lost neutral with a 240 volt output or the voltage regulator may have said "adios".

"Loud Pops" sounds distressingly like capacitors blowing in various electronic circuits, like TV, VCR, Microwave, etc. (sigh).

Ain't nothing like that smell or fried automatic transmission, clutch or brakes. Eewww!

smell's

captkw - 7-1-2012 at 07:22 PM

Blanca,david Is right,, burnt smells is not good!!something did burn!! and as In my first post on this thread.. a true sinewave is a good way to start your journey into the world of off the grid power!!! CAPS !! love it!! ever get zapped by a CRT? LOL...K&T :cool:

...

[Edited on 7-4-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 7-4-2012 by captkw]

DavidE - 7-1-2012 at 07:53 PM

Or charge up a large electrolytic with a high pot and then forget about it?

LOL !!

captkw - 7-1-2012 at 07:58 PM

NoW !! getting Zapped is good for the Heart !!!!

rts551 - 7-1-2012 at 08:06 PM

David

no matter what the size of the inverter, batteries have to keep up with it.

The road south was pretty good a month ago, but as dirt roads go,,, be prepared to go slow or hitch a ride with a local. maybe Jaime (el Jeve de Biosphere) he comes south sometimes

BajaBlanca - 7-2-2012 at 07:13 AM

ok, we are doing good here except we need more solar panels.

anyone have some to sell ?

and Dave, the road is very bad washboard the last 5 miles into la bocana. the rest of it, from asuncion south, is really quite smooth.

BajaBlanca - 7-2-2012 at 07:35 AM

David, this is Les.

You're right, I checked the power from the generator yesterday and it was up to 178 volts, looks like it blew out the TV.
Solar is working just fine and I do have 1500W pure sine wave inverter for the kitchen stuff like the fridge and rest of the circuits runs on 3000W modified sine wave inverter, 2 140W solar panels runing through 50A control to 8 batteries, actually 4 are Interstate and 4 Trojan rated at 235APH all new. So as you can see I need more Solar panels as the batteries don't get fully charged now that we are here.

DavidE - 7-2-2012 at 08:26 AM

EXCELLENT! Well anyway at least as far as the batteries, and inverters are concerned. Is your genset running at its proper RPM? Not running way too fast?

I sent Blanca my email address. It would be easier to communicate that way, and you can see some comments I made Les.

Glad to help.

Alm - 7-2-2012 at 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion
YFirst figure out what your daily use is, get inverters to cover that and sufficient batteries to manage the load at night. Only then do you get panels and controllers with sufficient wattage to recharge the batteries. Oh and BTW figure at least 50% safety margine on everything. I have a 6000 watt system for our off grid home in Loreto and we use AC at night with no generator run. It can be done.

Correct, except that the battery bank should be sufficient to cover not just one night, but preferably 24-48 hours period because there can be overcast and even rain sometimes. On such days the panel might collect as little as 10% compared to "normal" weather. Plus, the battery should not be discharged below 50% often, or its life will shorten dramatically. Which means the battery bank should be at least 4 times your 24 hour consumption. Most solar home guides recommend 10 times, but for Baja 4-6 times should be enough.

LancairDriver - 7-2-2012 at 08:04 PM

The following information may be of interest on the output of a solar system a friend has recently installed in Utah and sent to me.The system has 47 215W American built solar panels that are mounted on a Aircraft hanger roof. He is able to check on the system remotely over the internet in real time and can monitor output on each of the 47 panels individually. He is selling excess power back to the Electric Company on a 1:1 cost basis. I am no expert on solar but it looks pretty impressive to me.Total cost ran about $20k with professional installation after rebates.Looks like a decent return on investment based on the cost of electricity.Looks like the hot setup for a house in Baja.

Monthly Energy Production
Report for xxxxx

Enphase Energy maximizes your solar energy production and keeps you informed about your system. Your monthly energy report shows how your system performed and how much you contributed to offsetting the global carbon footprint.

Energy Production and Peak Power for
June 2012

Week Peak Power Energy Produced
06/01/2012 - 06/07/2012 10.4 kW 570 kWh
06/08/2012 - 06/14/2012 9.99 kW 575 kWh
06/15/2012 - 06/21/2012 9.95 kW 565 kWh
06/22/2012 - 06/28/2012 10.3 kW 565 kWh
06/29/2012 - 06/30/2012 9.84 kW 162 kWh
June 2012's Total: 2.44 MWh
Previous Month's Total: 1.28 MWh
Year to Date: 3.72 MWh

For more details on these production results, please visit your Enphase® system.

Your Carbon Offsets
Your Enphase system generated 2.44 MWh of energy during the month of June 2012.

CO2 offsets: 1.68 tons
You have offset the equivalent of:
43 Trees

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Blanca and all

captkw - 7-2-2012 at 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
David, this is Les.

You're right, I checked the power from the generator yesterday and it was up to 178 volts, looks like it blew out the TV.
Solar is working just fine and I do have 1500W pure sine wave inverter for the kitchen stuff like the fridge and rest of the circuits runs on 3000W modified sine wave inverter, 2 140W solar panels runing through 50A control to 8 batteries, actually 4 are Interstate and 4 Trojan rated at 235APH all new. So as you can see I need more Solar panels as the batteries don't get fully charged now that we are here.

************** HOLA,,its more than best to NOT mix batts !!! very Important..do not mix batts in your system..K & T

Alm - 7-2-2012 at 10:18 PM

Quote:

06/22/2012 - 06/28/2012 10.3 kW 565 kWh
06/29/2012 - 06/30/2012 9.84 kW 162 kWh

Yes. Some days and weeks you will collect MUCH less than average (4 times less in this example). This is why the battery bank should be large enough to get you through those dark days. Thanks God not too many dark days in Baja.

Approximate calculator is here , one of the best that I know of. Unfortunately, it doesn't show anything South of San Diego. You may count on roughly 15% more daily energy in Baja than in SD. Calculator should be used carefully - it doesn't include drop in panel output in a hot weather, results are for standard test conditions (70F). Detract 0.5% per each degree above that, and consider that in 80F air the panel can warm up to 85F or more. But this one at least shows realistic results, unlike few others that I've seen.

Note that this calculator shows MONTHLY energy collection, not weekly or daily. I prefer to know daily collection data. Energy audit is always Step #1 in solar system design. Know you consumption. Measure it, or estimate to the best of your abilities. Some can live on 1 kWh a day, and some need 10 Kwh. Energy consumption is usually the highest in summer, because of AC. Without AC, if you can live with powered vents and ceiling fans, summer energy draw is not much higher than winter. Compressor fridge will draw more in summer, but not nearly as much as AC. If you have enough energy to power MW and other small alliances like toaster, coffee maker, hair drier etc, it makes sense getting a normal 110V fridge rather than propane unit.

Yes, there are minimalists - I'm one of them - that can live without MW and make coffee on gas stove (nothing terrible, btw), and then 500W panel and 400-500 AH battery bank will do. The above calculator doesn't even accept panel values less than 0.5 KW, assuming that most solar homes have MUCH more panel wattage.

Edit - PS: What Captain said - never mix batteries. Different brands have different charging parameters, what is perfect for one battery can be just so-so for another.

[Edited on 7-3-2012 by Alm]

monoloco - 7-2-2012 at 10:50 PM

Quote:

Take it from someone who has lived off the grid for almost 20 years, 2 140w solar panels will not be enough to run an electric refrigerator and everything else you will want like lights etc. Either plan on getting a gas fridge or substantially upgrading your system.

Islandbuilder - 7-2-2012 at 11:12 PM

Quote:

Les, It sounds like you have a control problem on your genset. I have analog gauges showing volts and the cycles. You need 120 volts and 60 cycles. The cycles are controlled by RPM's of the engine, volts by the windings or configuration of the generator. Right DavidE?
So, changing the RPM's will only fix part of the problem (to get the cycles close, try slowing the motor down until the lights flicker, then speed it up until they are steady, should be close).
Sorry about the TV, I hope that's the only problem!
I would suggest using power strips or switched outlets for most of your appliances and electronics. Virtually everything now doesn't turn all the way off with the switch, but stays in stand-by mode, using about half as much power as if it was on.
Power strips are just easier than unplugging everything to really, fully, turn it off.
Good luck with the new place, I look forward to seeing it!

islandbiulder

captkw - 7-3-2012 at 07:07 AM

Hola,good morn...the freq. depends on how manys poles and speed in a given design and volts are usally controled with a pot and be advised that today with so many designs and models (brushless) that before I start to repair a genset I get the MANUAL and I do not mean the owners man, but the service manual !! all gensets generate AC voltage and with a recterfier (diodes) lopes off part off the sine wave to change to DC volts.....K & T :cool:

Bajajorge - 7-3-2012 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
anything davidE can't help you with, northern arizona wind and sun can. its a great forum from beginner to pro.

Their prices are pretty good compared to others.

DavidE - 7-3-2012 at 11:10 AM

Unless of course, you try and control a generator using a saturated field concept, and the capacitor shorts. Technically this is "voltage regulation". Not so technically, when things fry and the exciter goes to ground it ain't easy to fix.

A good genset I used to build used the customer's prime mover, a Kato generator, Delco H9000 voltage regulator, and a Woodward electronic governor. 120.0 +- .1 volt, and 60.0 hz +- .1 hz. All this became obsolete when inverter generators came on the scene. Of course my units were a minimum of 20 KW. I used a Scott T connection to convert 3Ø to single phase when necessary.

Islandbuilder - 7-3-2012 at 11:58 AM

Wow, between capkw and DavidE I am a bit afraid to offer any advice! There are obviously bigger brains than mine in the conversation. Which is very good!

I guess my only observation about the genset problem is that there is probably more going on than operator error. There may be an internal regulator problem that allowed the generator to make much higher voltage than it should have. Had Les just run it too fast, he would have run the cycles above 60, to get more volts there may be a mechanical or wiring problem.

Before he puts the genset back on line, he needs to get some more advice, perhaps?

If DavidE is within striking distance it seems like his presence would be very useful. Heck, I'd like to get him on the boat to check out a couple of concerns.

Islandbuilder - 7-3-2012 at 12:02 PM

Hmmm,, could the genset be wired incorrectly to the house, so that it's delivering 220v, with 110v getting into the neutral line? That'll cook some stuff pretty dang fast!

In other words, the genset is ok, it just got pigtailed into the house panel wrong?

Alm - 7-3-2012 at 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
2 140w solar panels will not be enough to run an electric refrigerator and everything else you will want like lights etc. Either plan on getting a gas fridge or substantially upgrading your system.

He (Les) didn't say that it was enough. As I read his post, he got those 2*140 panels with his new house, doesn't know yet their output, and he does use a generator.

I wrote this already, without a daily run of a generator 500w or at least 400W is the bare minimum, and this is without AC and with a very limited use of microwave and other small 110V appliances like toaster, vacuum etc. Small 5 cu.ft 12V fridge is realistic to have with this setup - $1,000 RV type, not $200 residential type. This has been confirmed by offgrid "cabin" crowd like trailers. This lifestyle assumes trips to washer-drier on the camp, and of course no luxuries like a dishwasher. Not terribly uncomfortable, the whole setup costs under 2K, easy to maintain, zero generator costs, but this is not for everybody. I've seen many people that absolutely won't live in a home with no microwave and washer-drier.

DavidE - 7-3-2012 at 01:37 PM

I like two 5 gal buckets half full of warm water and detergent. Put in a few pieces of clothes, step barefoot into both buckets, and churn while reading a paperback. When you finish a chapter the load has been washed. Good for clean toenails too.

Clad any refrigerator with two inch rigid foam insulation panels, and carefully spray aerosol closed cell foam behind not on to coils and pipes, motor compressor, and then coat the underneath. With a good door gasket this will reduce energy costs by over half and keep food cold on a 45C day (electric fridge) and reasonable with an absorbsion ammonia refrigerator. Close off, that means encase the refrigerator so the rear half is sealed from room air. Make a 6" X 12" vent 6" off the ground and use wire mesh to stop critters. Run the enclosure all the way to the ceiling and make another vent. Let mother nature's convection work for you. If you want to get fancy, get a surplus 24V computer style fan and run it directly off solar panels. Play the air across the fins on the rear of the refrigerator. I have enjoyed rock hard ice cream on a 45C day this way. The refrigerator door doesn't look too cool clad in rigid foam but you can't have everything.

Alm - 7-3-2012 at 03:24 PM

Hi David,
yes a bucket with detergent and "human power" will work, though most detergents are hard on skin. I'm soaking clothes in detergent overnight instead.

Yes, most fridges need better insulation in Baja climate. The solution for fridge door is to put a few carpet tiles on it. Looks even better than standard shiny surface. Yes, people often add small "muffin fan" for cooling the compression fridge coils and/or compressor. If fridge is 12V or propane (which also has 12V circuit), there is no need to run the fan directly off the panels - you can tap it into the fridge 12V circuit and it will turn on when fridge is cycling. Panels usually generate odd voltages like 17V, 29V, 40V, this isn't good for 12V or 24V fan, and besides, there is always a proper 12V supply from controller or battery.

wessongroup - 7-3-2012 at 05:16 PM

Thanks all, doesn't get any better than "in the field" reports ... lots of great information ..

larryC - 7-4-2012 at 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I like two 5 gal buckets half full of warm water and detergent. Put in a few pieces of clothes, step barefoot into both buckets, and churn while reading a paperback. When you finish a chapter the load has been washed. Good for clean toenails too.

Clad any refrigerator with two inch rigid foam insulation panels, and carefully spray aerosol closed cell foam behind not on to coils and pipes, motor compressor, and then coat the underneath. With a good door gasket this will reduce energy costs by over half and keep food cold on a 45C day (electric fridge) and reasonable with an absorbsion ammonia refrigerator. Close off, that means encase the refrigerator so the rear half is sealed from room air. Make a 6" X 12" vent 6" off the ground and use wire mesh to stop critters. Run the enclosure all the way to the ceiling and make another vent. Let mother nature's convection work for you. If you want to get fancy, get a surplus 24V computer style fan and run it directly off solar panels. Play the air across the fins on the rear of the refrigerator. I have enjoyed rock hard ice cream on a 45C day this way. The refrigerator door doesn't look too cool clad in rigid foam but you can't have everything.

I guess I am lazy but I would put the sealed clothes buckets into the back of the truck and drive to town on a washboard road. Then manually clean my toe nails.

As far as refrigeration on a solar system, this is the best I have found: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=47172
It uses less power than a 14 watt curlicue flourescient light bulb. Very easy on a solar system.
Larry

COLD BEER !!!!!!

captkw - 7-4-2012 at 09:07 AM

A DOMETIC or a norcold on propane works well and no elec is needed...my folks on the east cape have a couple old (60's) full size propane fridge...now @#$%^&* I cant think of the brand name....anyway the asorp type work good and quiet and hardly uses any propane..just make sure the fins and exhuast is WELL vented...I had a dometic in costa rico and always had COLD beer!!!!! K & T :cool:

larryC - 7-4-2012 at 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
A DOMETIC or a norcold on propane works well and no elec is needed...my folks on the east cape have a couple old (60's) full size propane fridge...now @#$%^&* I cant think of the brand name....anyway the asorp type work good and quiet and hardly uses any propane..just make sure the fins and exhuast is WELL vented...I had a dometic in costa rico and always had COLD beer!!!!! K & T :cool:

I am going to guess that you didn't read my post about the propane freezer. It worked great till the stinky ammonia leaked out of it. True they use very little propane but the electric uses zero propane. The 5 cf freezer that I have now holds 5 times more product, cools down to 35 degrees within 10 minutes of turning it on, was significantly cheaper than buying another propane freezer, and doesn't have to have a propane bottle changed periodically. Also holds extra food if I need the extra space. All in all a much better option for me. Your milage may vary.
Larry

[Edited on 7-4-2012 by larryC]

DavidE - 7-4-2012 at 12:36 PM

LarryC,

Was not that the Dometic FC-140 chest freezer? 1.5 cubic feet capacity, 3-way cooling? On a beach with 111F inside temperature, the freezer held -5F. WOW! Absolutely rock-hard ice-cream fifteen miles distant from the nearest power pole.

BTW, "ice is not ice". Ice that comes out of a box at -5F is totally different than ice at +20F.

I like the VestFrost line of upright freezer. Huge capacity, misery energy consumption. Heavy, expensive, desirable nevertheless.

Sorry Larry

captkw - 7-4-2012 at 12:43 PM

NO,,I did not see that post....But I just went from the start to finish and read your post,,me, late agian !! K & T :cool:

larryC - 7-4-2012 at 01:01 PM

David and Captkw
Yes that was the fc-140, I thought they were only 1.1 cf. Anyway they were and still are one of the best freezers. Mine was 30 years old when it died. I found a place that could maybe recharge it with ammonia, but I decided to go with the electric chest freezer conversion for my garage beer cooler. I have since found and bought 2 good working Dometic fc 140's and use those for camping trips so that I do not have to rely on finding ice every few days. One 5 gallon propane tank lasts 3 weeks or more with the Dometic.