only the prelim is avail. they have not published a final.
the prelim likely tells the story as well as it ever will though.woody with a view - 7-28-2012 at 09:28 AM
bummer! $5 worth of fuel and the outcome would have been avoided....capt. mike - 7-28-2012 at 09:57 AM
what will harm you if not kill you....
runway behind
altitude above
gas not in the tank
use the whole runway
climb as high as you need to be
have as much gas as you need, period.Ken Bondy - 7-28-2012 at 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
what will harm you if not kill you....
runway behind
altitude above
gas not in the tank
use the whole runway
climb as high as you need to be
have as much gas as you need, period.
Great advice mike. Will add years to your life.dtbushpilot - 7-28-2012 at 10:22 AM
Don't recall ever buying less than full tanks.....dtsd - 7-28-2012 at 10:54 AM
Don't ever be in a hurry to get home. If weather is not good, if you are tired, stay an extra day. Very sad story, sorry for the loss of lives.Barry A. - 7-28-2012 at 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Don't recall ever buying less than full tanks.....dt
In my years of flying as a Private, Commercial, and Dept. of Interior Pilot, I don't recall EVER not topping-off all fuel cells with fuel whenever I
was at the fuel pump-------you just never know what you will encounter.
This accident is so sad, as are all of them.
Barrycapt. mike - 7-28-2012 at 12:51 PM
well i have at times had to balance fuel with load and therefore could not go with all my 90 gals, 86 useable.
but i always planned min 1 hr reserve no matter what. If the destination was an hour and my load calc allowed only 28 gals then i could go. If 28 put
me over gross i would get rid of luggage or a pax. - whatever it took.Barry A. - 7-28-2012 at 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
well i have at times had to balance fuel with load and therefore could not go with all my 90 gals, 86 useable.
but i always planned min 1 hr reserve no matter what. If the destination was an hour and my load calc allowed only 28 gals then i could go. If 28 put
me over gross i would get rid of luggage or a pax. - whatever it took.
Excellent point, Capt. Mike. Thank Thor that I was never in THAT position------seldom carried heavy freight, etc.
Barrythebajarunner - 7-28-2012 at 01:34 PM
"Time to spare, go by air"
was always my motto during my active pilot yearsdtbushpilot - 7-28-2012 at 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
well i have at times had to balance fuel with load and therefore could not go with all my 90 gals, 86 useable.
but i always planned min 1 hr reserve no matter what. If the destination was an hour and my load calc allowed only 28 gals then i could go. If 28 put
me over gross i would get rid of luggage or a pax. - whatever it took.
One of the things I loved about the Cessna 180, if you could get it in the plane and close the doors you were good to go.Stickers - 7-28-2012 at 02:46 PM
Such a sad story but part of the equation is that fuel at Calexico is a rip-off.
We are required to land there to clear into the the U.S. and then they nearly mug us with what they charge for fuel.
I would bite the bullet and pay to fill up but I know many pilots resented doing so. Topping-off my plane was about $50.00 more at Calexico then any
other airport around that area.Ken Cooke - 7-28-2012 at 02:51 PM
If you guys remember, there had been a strong NW wind that day, causing additional fuel consumption for Carlos Fiestas plane. Perhaps, he filled his
entire tank and it simply was spent due to the increased headwind.bigmike58 - 7-28-2012 at 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
If you guys remember, there had been a strong NW wind that day, causing additional fuel consumption for Carlos Fiestas plane. Perhaps, he filled his
entire tank and it simply was spent due to the increased headwind.
Very doubtful, the fuel caddy said he put in 20gal. and he did not top it off.
That plane specs are as follows,
MAX RANGE, 6,500 ft.
(w/reserve) (nm):
75% power:599
65% power:634
55% power:634
FUEL CONSUMPTION, 6,500 ft. (gph):
75% power:9.0
65% power:7.6
55% power:6.6
Estimated endurance, 65% power (hrs.):
7.5
As you can see, he should have been able to fly for 6hrs "at least" if his tanks were full..regardless of the headwind speed... hrs are hrs.. and they
said he was 2.5hrs into the flight when he lost power.
[Edited on 7-28-2012 by bigmike58]LancairDriver - 7-28-2012 at 07:03 PM
At least four fairly recent fatal crashes that are Baja related can be directly related to pilot judgement errors.
The disappearance of the couple flying in a storm out of Mulege a few years back.
The Bonanza crash into the mountain skud running south of Ensenada killing four.
Of course Carlos Fiesta with three fatals
The most recent 182 hitting wires and crashing into the river near El Fuerte with one fatal and three injured.
These four come to mind, there are probably more.
If Carlos had been flying a retractable gear airplane he MAY have been able to wade away from the crash. Flipping upside down and having the doors
jammed didn't help matters.Fixed gear water landings almost always flip over.woody with a view - 7-28-2012 at 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Stickers
Such a sad story but part of the equation is that fuel at Calexico is a rip-off.
We are required to land there to clear into the the U.S. and then they nearly mug us with what they charge for fuel.
I would bite the bullet and pay to fill up but I know many pilots resented doing so. Topping-off my plane was about $50.00 more at Calexico then any
other airport around that area.
$5 or $50 isn't worth 3 lives! i mean, WTF? i'm not here to judge CF's skills, no doubt the man had them. just so sad when you think about it.bigmike58 - 7-28-2012 at 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
At least four fairly recent fatal crashes that are Baja related can be directly related to pilot judgement errors.
The disappearance of the couple flying in a storm out of Mulege a few years back.
The Bonanza crash into the mountain skud running south of Ensenada killing four.
Of course Carlos Fiesta with three fatals
The most recent 182 hitting wires and crashing into the river near El Fuerte with one fatal and three injured.
These four come to mind, there are probably more.
If Carlos had been flying a retractable gear airplane he MAY have been able to wade away from the crash. Flipping upside down and having the doors
jammed didn't help matters.Fixed gear water landings almost always flip over.
That couple was Gary Thomas and his wife Peggy, I fished several bass tourney's with him on the Delta in Northern California prior to their
disappearance.DavidE - 7-29-2012 at 08:29 AM
How sad. I remember sitting in the hotel Punta Chivato restaurant one day when someone burst in yelling "A plane has crashed". A guy tried landing in
the east west runway during howling north winds. Hit a wind sock pole with a wing. Tore it off. He spent quite a bit of time ruing why he didn't use
the north south runway. To me, decisions about aircraft and flying are a horse of a different color. One, lousy, mistake...
that could be true Ken but....
capt. mike - 7-29-2012 at 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
If you guys remember, there had been a strong NW wind that day, causing additional fuel consumption for Carlos Fiestas plane. Perhaps, he filled his
entire tank and it simply was spent due to the increased headwind.
As PIC [pilot in command] he was charged with constantly monitoring his performance enroute to check time/speed/distance in real time to determine if
another fuel stop was needed. Clearly the shortage at Calexico combined with the HW component disadvantaged whatever his 1st plan was.
Get-home-itis is often a mental culprit which clouds judgment resulting in tragedy as evinced in this accident.
Carlos was a good guy and friend. We're human. He made a fatal mistake. Guys with 000's of hours of turbine time and ATP ratings have done the same
thing. Stretched it too far.
