BajaNomad

Mexician Military

Bajaahh - 9-5-2012 at 12:16 PM

After recently going through a military checkpoint (or two), some friends and I were discussing the Mexican Military and the benefits they receive for joining.
I thought the Nomads would have the (correct) answers we were looking for.
Can someone educate me on what the befits are for joining?
Do they get a pension? Pay? A right to vote? Social security? Education? How long is the minimum time required? Is it mandatory to join?
...that kind of stuff.

Thanks in advance, Scott

DavidE - 9-5-2012 at 12:27 PM

It is a primary requirement to obtain a Méxican passport, other than having a substantial amount of personal wealth. Health care, income, networking, and escaping considerable pressures from la familia mayor. Soldados enlisted and officers are never stationed close to "home". Something about "the further the better".

They have to become a non-commissioned officer at the least and serve (used to be) 18-years before they got a meager retirement stipend. They have health care for varying amounts of time after their tour depending on their rank. Everybody has a "right to vote" but they have to produce evidence of citizenship. This is established before the enlistment process has been completed.

All of the above gathered in talks with my pal Felipe Espinosa of Empalme, Sonora.

DENNIS - 9-5-2012 at 12:49 PM

I think most of the enlisted personel you see are drafted...or, fulfilling their military obligation. The better-off youth have ways of getting deferrments

DENNIS - 9-5-2012 at 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Soldados enlisted and officers are never stationed close to "home". Something about "the further the better".


In the past, those conscripted would have to be stationed as far away from home as possible, otherwise they would just leave and go home at the first opportunity. They had strong family prioreties.
Now that the military has something to do, the rules have tightened up a bit. Before the cartels became the enemy, the only thing the Mexican military had to do was protect the President.
It's all different now.

Cisco - 9-5-2012 at 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Soldados enlisted and officers are never stationed close to "home". Something about "the further the better".


In the past, those conscripted would have to be stationed as far away from home as possible, otherwise they would just leave and go home at the first opportunity. They had strong family prioreties.
Now that the military has something to do, the rules have tightened up a bit. Before the cartels became the enemy, the only thing the Mexican military had to do was protect the President.
It's all different now.


My Grandson's Nanny has one brother in the military. He is I believe 17 years old. He is from Tapachula and is garrisoned in Tapachula. His parents now have free health care available through the government due to his service.

Bajaahh - 9-5-2012 at 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I think most of the enlisted personel you see are drafted...or, fulfilling their military obligation. The better-off youth have ways of getting deferrments

Bajaahh - 9-5-2012 at 01:40 PM

So is the draft always in effect? Other than a deferment, is it mandatory for the guys to join? And whats the minimum time required?
Thanks.

DENNIS - 9-5-2012 at 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaahh
So is the draft always in effect? Other than a deferment, is it mandatory for the guys to join? And whats the minimum time required?
Thanks.

Mandatory. It's been around for as long as I know.
Length of service....I don't know.

I knew a young man who went to Mexico's Annapolis. He was treated like royalty....by most everybody. Being commisioned in Mexico is a really good job.


.

[Edited on 9-5-2012 by DENNIS]

Wally - 9-5-2012 at 02:16 PM

Conscription
Conscript Soldiers

Legally, every Mexican man is obligated to a year of servicio militar nacional—SMN (national military service—NMS), but only a few hours of drill or social services on weekends, not true military training. Most conscripts will have received at most only one marksmanship session at a rifle range by the time they have completed their NMS obligation and are not integrated nor operate with regular Army units, and as such despite a national military service the Army is actually a fully professional career force.

The Cartilla
The drafted men attend and participate in weekend sessions that really are a social service in nature, with emphasizes on education, history, physical fitness, and military discipline for one complete year. Afterward, the precartilla (pre-military identity card) is returned to the conscript with an added page certifying his status as having fulfilled his national military service and identifies the military branch, the unit, rank, etc. The document then acquires full status as the Cartilla del Servicio Militar Nacional (Military National Service Identity Card), informally Cartilla; this status is recorded to the National Defense Secretariat files.

This document (Military National Service Identity Card) is an important form of Mexican national identification, and its existence was formerly always requested by private and public employers, however, this identity document has ceased being required for obtaining a passport for international travel.

Officers
Officer candidates for the three services are trained in military colleges; Mexico City for the Army, Guadalajara, Jalisco, for the Air Force, and Veracruz, for the Navy. Generally, officer candidates are from society's lower and middle classes, therefore a military commission is a means of upward social mobility for the poor, yet society respects military officers.

The military colleges are not universities, yet provide significant technical training applicable to civil employment after military service. They emphasise military ethics (honour, duty, country), history, discipline, physical fitness, and the perpetuation of the military as a societal institution. The armed forces provide university-level education through the War College (Colegio de Guerra) in Mexico City, to which officers must attend and earn a Diplomado del Estado Mayor (DEM) degree to qualify for promotion to general officer or admiral rank.

Career soldiers
Mexican citizens who have chosen to be career soldiers are signed for an initial three year contract and, at the end of it, are encouraged to sign for another two year contract. If they choose to do so, this second term would become final, unless they apply mandatory exams and tests to become corporals, or apply in order to study in any of the available Military Specialist Technical Schools or for sergeant in the E.M.C.A. (Escuela Militar de Classes de las Armas).



[Edited on 9-5-2012 by Wally]

DavidE - 9-5-2012 at 02:31 PM

Great thread. Shows how much things have changed in ten years.

Pescador - 9-5-2012 at 09:09 PM

This has been discussed several times and the best and most complete answer can be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Armed_Forces

willardguy - 9-5-2012 at 09:13 PM

hey thats what wally said! :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 9-5-2012 at 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wally
The Cartilla
The drafted men attend and participate in weekend sessions that really are a social service in nature, with emphasizes on education, history, physical fitness, and military discipline for one complete year.

This is the part that I recall could actually be satisfied by proxy. a draftee could actually pay a wino to take his place over the weekend, and that's what they did.
I don't know if this has changed since then, but it probably has. Mexico has a real need for a more serious military these days.

SFandH - 9-6-2012 at 06:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
It is a primary requirement to obtain a Méxican passport, other than having a substantial amount of personal wealth.


Hmmm, I know maybe 5 Mexican citizens, not many I admit, that have passports and have never served nor have substantial personal wealth. What about the 10s of thousands of Mexicans that cross the border everyday for work, shopping, visiting? They all have Mex passports, don't they? They certainly have US visas which I think would be impossible to get without a Mex passport.

shari - 9-6-2012 at 08:14 AM

I asked Juan and he said there is some kind of lottery system that if your number comes up, you are exempt from the military thing....his number came up.

Lottery

bajaguy - 9-6-2012 at 09:12 AM

They use different colored numbered ping-pong balls. The number determines if you serve or not, the color denotes Army, Navy or Air Force............it's always fun to drive by the Ensenada Navy, Army and Air Force bases and watch the first days formation!!!!

DavidE - 9-6-2012 at 09:30 AM

I agree with your points. But too many of my friends have been rejected for obtaining a Mexican pasaport for me to believe they are passed around as easily as a US Passport. "We do not have enough financial resources. I did not serve in the military" seems to be a common denominator. Not having acceptable birth records seems to be an obstacle as well. Thanks for pointing this out; I sure would like to learn more about it.

DENNIS - 9-6-2012 at 09:48 AM

Big difference between a border crossing card and a passport in Mexico. THe crossing card only allows entry to the US for around 25 miles.....mas o menos.
It's not a permission to work card either, as much as it is a permit to shop and visit.

Nor am I buying that "Military Service earns a passport" stuff either. They arn't giving passports to the indigenous peoples who fill the enlisted ranks of the military. Their reward for service is having a job.



.


[Edited on 9-6-2012 by DENNIS]

SFandH - 9-6-2012 at 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Big difference between a border crossing card and a passport in Mexico. THe crossing card only allows entry to the US for around 25 miles.....mas o menos.
It's not a permission to work card either, as much as it is a permit to shop and visit.
[Edited on 9-6-2012 by DENNIS]


Yes the Mexicans I know have the those types of US visas, they call them laser cards. I was assuming they needed a Mexican passport to qualify. I know a couple have passports, don't know about the others but I bet they do because they travel by air occasionally to the US East coast. They need to get another type of visa prior to those trips. Not rich folks tho, just 9 to 5 TJ office workers. I'll ask.

SFandH - 9-6-2012 at 01:06 PM

Just spoke with my Mex buddy and he said a passport is required for a Mexican to get any kind of visa to enter the United States, including the "border pass". He could be wrong but he's sure of it. If so it can't be all that difficult to get one, afterall Mexicans travel all over the world just like anyone else and like I said, 10s of thousands cross the border every day.

Bajaahh - 9-6-2012 at 08:07 PM

Thanks again for the info, as always, the Nomads have the answers...

Im sorry if I brought up an old topic but Wikipedia has no soul, its the stories and experiences that I was hoping to learn from. Thank you!

The cartilla

thebajarunner - 9-7-2012 at 08:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaahh
Thanks again for the info, as always, the Nomads have the answers...

Im sorry if I brought up an old topic but Wikipedia has no soul, its the stories and experiences that I was hoping to learn from. Thank you!


First of all, thanks for your comment on the "wicked Wikipedia"
I shudder when I see that referenced. I try never, ever to click on the Wik- cuz it is so incredibly unreliable and often deeply inaccurate.

OK- got that off my chest.
The Cartilla-
Back in the early 80's when we brought several boys from the orphanage to live with us they had to have passports and F-1 visas.
One of the boys was 16 and he could not get his passport because he did not have the cartilla.
(hate to admit this part.... oh well)
I have friends in D.F. - extremely high up in the old PRI.
We contacted him, soon a cartilla arrived.
Interestingly, when we went in with all the docs in Mexicali to get the passport the officer issued it without any delay-
BUT>>>>>> He smiled and said something to the affect that he recognized that this was not obtained by legit means,
but he still signed us off.

Ateo - 9-7-2012 at 09:05 AM

I would say this entry on Wikipedia about Baja is quite accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja_California

Wiki ain't perfect though..............:)

DENNIS - 9-7-2012 at 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
Wiki ain't perfect though..............:)

That's for sure, but it's a place to start in many cases.

I dunno bout that, Dennis

thebajarunner - 9-7-2012 at 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
Wiki ain't perfect though..............:)

That's for sure, but it's a place to start in many cases.

Hard for me to read with one half of my brain trying to absorb new info,
and the other half scanning for inaccuracies and mistakes.
It is a rare day that I will "Click the Wik"

D

By the way,
sure good to see you clicking away these days....
How are you feeling?
Is the left hand doing any of the keyboard work??

willardguy - 9-7-2012 at 02:59 PM

WTF! maybe you folks dont get the idea behind wikipedia! the millions of entries are written collaboratively by volunteers. any of these entries can be edited by anyone with access to the site.
if you're gonna go thru the trouble of scanning for inaccuracies and you believe you got a better answer, why not edit the article in the spirit of wikipedia and enhance the site, instead of fothermucking it?

DENNIS - 9-7-2012 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
By the way,
sure good to see you clicking away these days....
How are you feeling?
Is the left hand doing any of the keyboard work??


I'm doing well, under the circumstances. Left side is coming along too. I'm just trying to keep it occupied with the CAPS KEY.
Thanks, Dick.

Great news, D-man, progress is progress

thebajarunner - 9-7-2012 at 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
By the way,
sure good to see you clicking away these days....
How are you feeling?
Is the left hand doing any of the keyboard work??


I'm doing well, under the circumstances. Left side is coming along too. I'm just trying to keep it occupied with the CAPS KEY.
Thanks, Dick.


Of course, had this been posted on Wiki?? then we could infer that perhaps your left is in action and again it is inaction,
but then again, if this were a mirror your left would be your right and right is good, is it not....

(Written in WikiSpeak)

DENNIS - 9-7-2012 at 05:59 PM

Gimme a minute....I have to run that through Google Translate. :lol:

You're right...progress is progress........my main source of motivation.

Bajatripper - 9-7-2012 at 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaahh
So is the draft always in effect? Other than a deferment, is it mandatory for the guys to join? And whats the minimum time required?
Thanks.

Mandatory. It's been around for as long as I know.
Length of service....I don't know.

I knew a young man who went to Mexico's Annapolis. He was treated like royalty....by most everybody. Being commisioned in Mexico is a really good job.
[Edited on 9-5-2012 by DENNIS]


I don't think I'd use "mandatory" to describe the military service obligation of Mexicans, Dennis. It is mandatory to qualify for many government programs/benefits, but I don't think it's mandatory in the sense that you're considered a draft dodger if you don't serve. I have a friend who never bothered serving, and I'm sure it's held him back way more than he'd care to admit.

DENNIS - 9-7-2012 at 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
I don't think I'd use "mandatory" to describe the military service obligation of Mexicans, Dennis. It is mandatory to qualify for many government programs/benefits, but I don't think it's mandatory in the sense that you're considered a draft dodger if you don't serve. I have a friend who never bothered serving, and I'm sure it's held him back way more than he'd care to admit.


Things have changed, Steve....changed a lot. The drug war has turned the military from Parade Marchers into Soldiers.
I don't know, but I'd bet that structure of Weekend Warriors in Mexico has become a lot more demanding. They must have ten divisions out there doing road-block duty throughout the country.

Speaking of parades...I remember in the old days when the military would march in holiday parades right through the middle of town and hallf the marching personel wouldn't even be in uniform. I just assumed they didn't have one.
Like I say....this has changed.

Mulegena - 9-9-2012 at 10:05 AM

This is my understanding of military service in Mexico.
This topic came up in conversation last night with the family.
This is the concensus of opinion.

Brief historical overview:
1- Years ago each 18 year old young man had two options, to attend weekly training on Saturdays in the designated military unit in their county, i.e. in Constitution, Sta. Rosalia, La Paz. This was difficult for most men to make that weekly trek, so many chose their second option of becoming a conscripted soldier.
2-a- Now it is required that each young man register for the draft in the month of November in their 18th year. They do this by reporting to their regional military headquarters and submitting their personal documents such as their birth certificate, CURP card, drivers' license, passport-- whatever ID they have gets turned over to the military for one year. There is no weekly training program, but in that year they can be called up for duty. If they are not called for duty they must return the following November to receive their "carta" which indicates they've served their legally required duty. The military then, and only then, returns their ID.
2-b- At the age of 18 a young man can volunteer to be a conscripted soldier. At the end of his service he's issued the "carta".
3- To have this carta is of less importance now than it was in prior generations. Its usually not required document for obtaining a job; its not a required document for obtaining a passport.