BajaNomad

Here is one for you David K

Sandlefoot - 9-13-2012 at 05:54 PM

You have probably already seen this but.... Here it is for everyone else.


http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-to-tow-space-shuttle-to-...

[Edited on 9-14-2012 by Sandlefoot]

[Edited on 9-14-2012 by Sandlefoot]

[Edited on 9-14-2012 by Sandlefoot]

[Edited on 9-14-2012 by Sandlefoot]

David K - 9-13-2012 at 07:30 PM

No surprise! Thanks.

bajadogs - 9-13-2012 at 11:20 PM

Jeez. With all the Fed cutbacks I guess NASA couldn't get a Dodge Cummins with SERIOUS towing capacity. Must be a marketing thing. Cute gimmick though. Cute truck.

DK, Why are you never on OFF-TOPIC, while so often you're off-topic?

David K - 9-14-2012 at 09:11 AM

So often? Really? Do you read my Baja posts here?

I don't go to off topic because for me, Baja is a place to be happy... and to go to a Baja forum and debate politics or what-ever goes on in off topic seems like being counter-productive...

TMW - 9-14-2012 at 10:38 AM

While I don't have a problem with a Tundra pulling it I think a Ford truck would have been more fitting. No I'm not a Ford guy either. But all considered the Tundra is built in Texas and the Johnson Space Center is in Texas too so I guess they go together.

David K - 9-14-2012 at 10:51 AM

Of all full size pickups sold here, ever wonder which one has more "American parts and labor' in it... ?

Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC, Dodge-Ram, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan?

comitan - 9-14-2012 at 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
So often? Really? Do you read my Baja posts here?

I don't go to off topic because for me, Baja is a place to be happy... and to go to a Baja forum and debate politics or what-ever goes on in off topic seems like being counter-productive...

DK are you related to Romney.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

MMc - 9-14-2012 at 11:20 AM

I like Baja!
The profit that Toyota make's sure don't stay here.Yes I now I can buy there stock in Japan. I'm sure they will make a Commercial with it and everybody will jump up and down saying mines better.
I love how we defend our rationalization of the things we do.

David K - 9-14-2012 at 12:54 PM

Actually most of it does. My Tacoma was made in Baja so it also helps the people of Baja. I think we are talking about the American made Tundra, however.

Wally - 9-14-2012 at 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
While I don't have a problem with a Tundra pulling it I think a Ford truck would have been more fitting. No I'm not a Ford guy either. But all considered the Tundra is built in Texas and the Johnson Space Center is in Texas too so I guess they go together.


If the Ford Motor Corp had been a financial supporter of the CSC I'm sure they could have had a shot. But they aren't, so they didn't.

Brilliant Marketing!

http://www.toyota.com/tundraendeavour/#landing

Sandlefoot - 9-14-2012 at 01:41 PM

Okay....Lets "assume" it will tow the cargo. What will happen to the truck if it has to STOP the cargo? Think David and Goliath..:o:o:o

David K - 9-14-2012 at 02:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Toyota did not need a government bail-out like Chrysler and GM.That's why this year I bought a Ford.They didn't take the bail-out either.


Good for you! I do believe that Toyota and Ford are the top vehicles owned by Baja Nomads... with Dodge and Jeep next.

Speaking of Jeep (Chrysler)... Now that they were neutered and became a Fiat owned company... have you seen what they are doing to the Jeep models? Sad... Here is what the new Jeeps, including a new Grand Wagoneer will look like when re-introduced ?


Big Changes in Store for Jeep
Brand to revive Grand Wagoneer, share Fiat platforms



more...

The 2014 Jeep Liberty will bring the debut of Chrysler’s all-new 9-speed automatic transmission, here paired with a 3.2-liter V-6. “If I have my way,” Marchionne told TheDetroitBureau.com, “you’ll see that transmission on all our front-drive products.”

The smaller Fiat SUSW platform will be used as the foundation for a new subcompact Jeep, meanwhile, and shared with a new crossover coming to the Italian maker’s line-up. According to a report in Automotive News, the new Jeep model will be assembled in Turin, Italy and shipped to the U.S. beginning in the second quarter of 2014.

That's right, Jeep (the best known true-American vehicle) won't be built anywhere in North America (The Wrangler has been built in Canada for years).

The entire article is here: http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012/09/big-changes-in-store...

vgabndo - 9-14-2012 at 02:25 PM

Since you asked...According to ABC News research for the cars sold in the USA with the fewest American Made parts:

10. Toyota - 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Highlander HV, Scion iQ, Land Cruiser, Prius, Yaris H/B, Yaris S/D: 0% Made in US

Of the Dodge vehicles listed (my truck wasn't) they were 80, 82, 83, and 84% made in the USA.



I don't know what these numbers would have looked like if we had allowed the 1% to destroy the American automotive industry too.

vgabndo - 9-14-2012 at 02:39 PM

"Of course, there's no chance that the Obama administration will sell off its GM stake before Election Day. That would force Obama to recognize actual losses, which would remind voters that the bailout was a massive transfer from taxpayers to unions."

Sounded like straight Republican double talk so I looked up your source. Been on the GOP payroll for years. Laura Bush's press secretary! Highly qualified, non-partisan source for information about the auto industry.. NOT!!!

http://www.salon.com/2010/06/28/la_times_blogger_gop_flack/

incidentally TARP, the bailout that conservatives seem to have so much trouble with, was created by the Republicans and made policy in 2008 during the GW Bush regime. (Bush is the guy that no Republicans voted for, and that they didn't even invite to their convention to help get the next one percenter elected.
Not Chaney, not Rove, not Limbaugh either. Curious.

Unlike the GOP, who seem to commonly try to scrap everything done by the previous administration, (See: Healthcare reform) the Dems saw that the damage that had been done to our economy by the last 8 years REQUIRED the TARP tourniquet. And rather than waste time coming up with another form of rescue for the one percent, (one including long prison terms and a few summary executions?) they plugged in the REPUBLICAN BAILOUT.

Less some political zingers I can't resist, I believe those facts to be incontrovertible.

And, GM paid back the LOAN, they haven't bought back all the stock We the People still own with apparently no control over the big person. (Corporation)



[Edited on 9-14-2012 by vgabndo]

comitan - 9-14-2012 at 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
So often? Really? Do you read my Baja posts here?

I don't go to off topic because for me, Baja is a place to be happy... and to go to a Baja forum and debate politics or what-ever goes on in off topic seems like being counter-productive...


Looks like you just answered the question. :fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:

David K - 9-14-2012 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Since you asked...According to ABC News research for the cars sold in the USA with the fewest American Made parts:

10. Toyota - 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Highlander HV, Scion iQ, Land Cruiser, Prius, Yaris H/B, Yaris S/D: 0% Made in US

Of the Dodge vehicles listed (my truck wasn't) they were 80, 82, 83, and 84% made in the USA.



I don't know what these numbers would have looked like if we had allowed the 1% to destroy the American automotive industry too.


Perry, this conversation was about TRUCKS, and specifically the American made Tundra... so this ABC (if even true) reply doesn't fit: 10. Toyota - 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Highlander HV, Scion iQ, Land Cruiser, Prius, Yaris H/B, Yaris S/D: 0% Made in US

vgabndo - 9-14-2012 at 03:39 PM

With all due respect David. I judge that you commonly launch indefensible political zingers, then , as now, claim to be above it all. I'm not. I'll admit it.

Doug does a fine job of keeping me in line. I don't always like it, but I probably deserve it. :lol:

comitan - 9-14-2012 at 04:40 PM

DK

Why is the stock market doing so well with Obama president . Ok just to make you happy I'm not that happy with Obama and there are many more of us the same feeling, it just comes down to the lesser evil.

willardguy - 9-14-2012 at 04:47 PM

"the lesser of two weevil's" see now that counts cause it was filmed down here.:lol:

Bajaboy - 9-14-2012 at 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Zingers??? Oh, you mean 'facts'??? Yes, I guess they would be called zingers by viewers and believers of MSNBC, CNN, ABC, etc.

If Obama was a Republican, they would never be hiding all the BS that has been produced by this administration.

Remember when Dan Quayle misspelled POTATO by adding an E? We never heard the end of it... But Joe Biden can say JOBS is a 'three letter word', and nothing... Even worse, the Commander-in-Chief doesn't know how to say CORPSMAN (silent p, as in Marine Corps) when honoring one, he said 'corpse man' several times... Guess his teleprompter didn't spell it phonetically for him?


I like that you use question marks after your facts, DK. Very appropriate for you.

vgabndo - 9-15-2012 at 10:46 PM

DAVID! A question. If the President is so bad, and the Republicans so good... Why isn't Romney touting and trumpeting the incredible successes of the Party and its heros Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Pearle, Wolfowitz, and PALIN in his effort to unseat Obama?

Those people are in the witness protection program right?

I'm sure the President's mispronunciation makes up for that little anomaly.

For the record I just deleted paragraphs of carefully documented support for my position. I was smiling as I recognized the foolishness of that effort.:) And I haven't had a TV for almost two years. If you are getting almost ANY of your information from TV that explains some of your "facts?????"

Confession...I download the Daily Show!



[Edited on 9-16-2012 by vgabndo]

Bajatripper - 9-16-2012 at 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
While I don't have a problem with a Tundra pulling it I think a Ford truck would have been more fitting. No I'm not a Ford guy either.


Agreed. Guess Toyota was willing to pay more for the publicity.

Bajatripper - 9-16-2012 at 01:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Zingers??? Oh, you mean 'facts'???
If Obama was a Republican, they would never be hiding all the BS that has been produced by this administration.

Remember when Dan Quayle misspelled POTATO by adding an E? We never heard the end of it... But Joe Biden can say JOBS is a 'three letter word', and nothing... Even worse, the Commander-in-Chief doesn't know how to say CORPSMAN (silent p, as in Marine Corps) when honoring one, he said 'corpse man' several times... Guess his teleprompter didn't spell it phonetically for him?


Good lord, David, you gonna start arguing about facts? The average Republican, including you, wouldn't know a real political fact if it bit them in the burro.

And you want to talk about a president mispronouncing ONE WORD so soon after we had the "you can fool everyone... uh, but, uh...hum...we won't get fooled again!" president? Really?

And you want to bring up keeping things secret by this administration when Bush/Cheney were the ones who passed a law that is meant to keep just about everything they did secret for fifty years (wonder how that will work out in the long-run?). You should be extremely grateful that this administration totally copped out and showed us all who their daddy is by keeping secret all the crap that went down during the Bush years. Otherwise, your whole world view would have been exposed as the big fraud it is and I'm not sure you could have handled that truth. No, on second thought, you'd just deny there was any truth to it since the Democrats had revealed it. For you folks, there are no universal truths, only Republican truths... and science or serious studies are never part of them.

I really, really like you as a person, David. But when it comes to politics, you have a lot to learn (to put it nicely) since it's sooooooo obvious you don't have a clue about what you are saying. All you can spout is Republican dogma. You can't talk about much outside of Baja in depth because you don't really have the understanding of the issues. Case-in-point: your "when Bush was in office, I had work; when Obama took over, I had no work, therefore, Bush good for the economy, Obama bad for the economy" argument. That is the thinking of someone with zero understanding of what brought on the crisis. Care to argue the point?

PS Speaking of unjustly hounding a candidate, try reading this (hint, Quayle got off easy): http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/09/blast-past-med...

WideAngleWandering - 9-16-2012 at 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Why? Because his solution was to use government to fix the economy and not private enterprise. Government is totally inefficient and wholly wasteful in nearly everything it tries to do, that should be done by the private citizens of America.


There are some things that governments are good at and other things that private industry is good at.

There are some things that governments do less efficiently than private industry but government is still preferable as it is accountable to the people and not motivated purely by profit, which taken to it's extreme (i.e. large corporations) gives us institutions legally mandated to act amorally due to fiduciary responsibility.

There is no universal answer to be found here. Government needs to be big enough to do it's job (one it's important functions being to regulate business).

I dig your Baja posts but I cringe every time I read anything political.

(p.s. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican)

Barry A. - 9-16-2012 at 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
DK

Why is the stock market doing so well with Obama president . Ok just to make you happy I'm not that happy with Obama and there are many more of us the same feeling, it just comes down to the lesser evil.


I'm not David, but to partially answer your question-----traders in the Stock Market love stimulous short-term as they can make a LOT of money trading the volatility, and that makes the Market go up, and go down. This is NOT true Capitolism, tho------it is a horrible distortion of the Market and free market principals, and the foolishness of it all will come home to roost one of these days, as it always does, and has done in the past. Most business's will not hire, or invest in plant under these distorted and confusing circumstances, thus the economy is stymied. Under these circumstances, forget "value" and go with "growth" and Mega-Caps and the distortions of the Market if you want to make money short-term (up to possibly 18 months or 2 years). Long Term it's mega-caps, for now.

That's my take, anyway.

Barry

Bajaboy - 9-16-2012 at 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
DK

Why is the stock market doing so well with Obama president . Ok just to make you happy I'm not that happy with Obama and there are many more of us the same feeling, it just comes down to the lesser evil.


I'm not David, but to partially answer your question-----traders in the Stock Market love stimulous short-term as they can make a LOT of money trading the volatility, and that makes the Market go up, and go down. This is NOT true Capitolism, tho------it is a horrible distortion of the Market and free market principals, and the foolishness of it all will come home to roost one of these days, as it always does, and has done in the past. Most business's will not hire, or invest in plant under these distorted and confusing circumstances, thus the economy is stymied. Under these circumstances, forget "value" and go with "growth" and Mega-Caps and the distortions of the Market if you want to make money short-term (up to possibly 18 months or 2 years). Long Term it's mega-caps, for now.

That's my take, anyway.

Barry


What's fascinating to me about this decision is that 11 of 12 FOMC governors voted for this. Now Barry, with all due respect, I'm guessing they have a bit more insight with the economy than us simpletons....unless of course you watch Fox News...and then...well all bets are off.....:lol:

Barry A. - 9-16-2012 at 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
DK

Why is the stock market doing so well with Obama president . Ok just to make you happy I'm not that happy with Obama and there are many more of us the same feeling, it just comes down to the lesser evil.


I'm not David, but to partially answer your question-----traders in the Stock Market love stimulous short-term as they can make a LOT of money trading the volatility, and that makes the Market go up, and go down. This is NOT true Capitolism, tho------it is a horrible distortion of the Market and free market principals, and the foolishness of it all will come home to roost one of these days, as it always does, and has done in the past. Most business's will not hire, or invest in plant under these distorted and confusing circumstances, thus the economy is stymied. Under these circumstances, forget "value" and go with "growth" and Mega-Caps and the distortions of the Market if you want to make money short-term (up to possibly 18 months or 2 years). Long Term it's mega-caps, for now.

That's my take, anyway.

Barry


What's fascinating to me about this decision is that 11 of 12 FOMC governors voted for this. Now Barry, with all due respect, I'm guessing they have a bit more insight with the economy than us simpletons....unless of course you watch Fox News...and then...well all bets are off.....:lol:


Yeah, well, we will see BajaBoy-------you may be right. My wisdom does not come from within, or from Fox News, but from CNBC's guests and commentators as well as my Financial Guide/Advisor, who is a billionaire. The academics on the FOMC worry me, that's for sure.

Barry

Bajaboy - 9-16-2012 at 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
DK

Why is the stock market doing so well with Obama president . Ok just to make you happy I'm not that happy with Obama and there are many more of us the same feeling, it just comes down to the lesser evil.


I'm not David, but to partially answer your question-----traders in the Stock Market love stimulous short-term as they can make a LOT of money trading the volatility, and that makes the Market go up, and go down. This is NOT true Capitolism, tho------it is a horrible distortion of the Market and free market principals, and the foolishness of it all will come home to roost one of these days, as it always does, and has done in the past. Most business's will not hire, or invest in plant under these distorted and confusing circumstances, thus the economy is stymied. Under these circumstances, forget "value" and go with "growth" and Mega-Caps and the distortions of the Market if you want to make money short-term (up to possibly 18 months or 2 years). Long Term it's mega-caps, for now.

That's my take, anyway.

Barry


What's fascinating to me about this decision is that 11 of 12 FOMC governors voted for this. Now Barry, with all due respect, I'm guessing they have a bit more insight with the economy than us simpletons....unless of course you watch Fox News...and then...well all bets are off.....:lol:


Yeah, well, we will see BajaBoy-------you may be right. My wisdom does not come from within, or from Fox News, but from CNBC's guests and commentators as well as my Financial Guide/Advisor, who is a billionaire. The academics on the FOMC worry me, that's for sure.

Barry


time to double down...buy rentals with cheap money and pay back the loan with inflated money.....:light:

Barry A. - 9-16-2012 at 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
DK

Why is the stock market doing so well with Obama president . Ok just to make you happy I'm not that happy with Obama and there are many more of us the same feeling, it just comes down to the lesser evil.


I'm not David, but to partially answer your question-----traders in the Stock Market love stimulous short-term as they can make a LOT of money trading the volatility, and that makes the Market go up, and go down. This is NOT true Capitolism, tho------it is a horrible distortion of the Market and free market principals, and the foolishness of it all will come home to roost one of these days, as it always does, and has done in the past. Most business's will not hire, or invest in plant under these distorted and confusing circumstances, thus the economy is stymied. Under these circumstances, forget "value" and go with "growth" and Mega-Caps and the distortions of the Market if you want to make money short-term (up to possibly 18 months or 2 years). Long Term it's mega-caps, for now.

That's my take, anyway.

Barry


What's fascinating to me about this decision is that 11 of 12 FOMC governors voted for this. Now Barry, with all due respect, I'm guessing they have a bit more insight with the economy than us simpletons....unless of course you watch Fox News...and then...well all bets are off.....:lol:


Yeah, well, we will see BajaBoy-------you may be right. My wisdom does not come from within, or from Fox News, but from CNBC's guests and commentators as well as my Financial Guide/Advisor, who is a billionaire. The academics on the FOMC worry me, that's for sure.

Barry


time to double down...buy rentals with cheap money and pay back the loan with inflated money.....:light:


A winning strategy for sure!!!! One of my son's is doing just that!! He plans to retire at 50. He may just make it. :spingrin:

Barry

Bajatripper - 9-16-2012 at 09:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
BajaTripper, please... it isn't more important than friendship, so I will not debate you or put you down personally because you need BIG government in your life... Just remember, the bigger the government, the smaller your paycheck and your freedom. As whistler stated, Obama either lied or was unable to do anything he said using big government to solve issues.

I am really tired of us apologizing to the world and still getting our flag burned, our ambassador and his security murdered... Some respect we have by acting weak and sorry...


David, not to belabor the point (I know how pointless that is), but the fact is, we ALL need be government in our lives. Some day, when you are no longer able to work for a living, you, too, will realize this "fact."

Until then, you are welcome to my hospitality anytime, you are a great, although very misguided politically, guy.

Salud, amigo.

Barry A. - 9-16-2012 at 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
BajaTripper, please... it isn't more important than friendship, so I will not debate you or put you down personally because you need BIG government in your life... Just remember, the bigger the government, the smaller your paycheck and your freedom. As whistler stated, Obama either lied or was unable to do anything he said using big government to solve issues.

I am really tired of us apologizing to the world and still getting our flag burned, our ambassador and his security murdered... Some respect we have by acting weak and sorry...


David, not to belabor the point (I know how pointless that is), but the fact is, we ALL need be government in our lives. Some day, when you are no longer able to work for a living, you, too, will realize this "fact."

Until then, you are welcome to my hospitality anytime, you are a great, although very misguided politically, guy.

Salud, amigo.


Well, I too agree with David on these political points. But the world would be pretty boring if we all agreed. I am 16 years retired, and I don't need most of what the present "Government" seeks to provide, and the entire idea of a Nanny State freaks me out--------it is NOT good, no matter how much you disagree with me.

Barry

Bajatripper - 9-16-2012 at 10:57 PM

Quote:
Quote:


Well, I too agree with David on these political points. But the world would be pretty boring if we all agreed. I am 16 years retired, and I don't need most of what the present "Government" seeks to provide, and the entire idea of a Nanny State freaks me out--------it is NOT good, no matter how much you disagree with me.

Barry


"A nation is only as strong as its weakest link."

WideAngleWandering - 9-17-2012 at 01:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
"not motivated purely by profit". The government is not motivated by profit at all.

some government entities apply capitalist principles to their own revenue generation, especially when corrupt
Quote:
What part of government turns a profit?They don't have to.Taxes fund the government

Parts of it, sure, but there are plenty of agencies out there that survive by generating revenue through fines & permits
Quote:
and if there is not funds to fund it,they just print more money.

The federal reserve does the money printing and they are private - not government institutions. No accountability to the people or it's elected representatives. This is not a good thing IMO.

Barry A. - 9-17-2012 at 08:03 AM

The ONLY Govt. Agencies that produce a "profit" that I am aware of are the IRS, and the Bureau of Land Management. The BLM profits mostly from it's oil and gas leases, and timber sales (or at least it used to in the 'good ol days').

Barry

WideAngleWandering - 9-17-2012 at 10:46 AM

I hear you. The profit thing is a bit of a tangent - my point was that government is not constrained by taxes, the government doesn't directly control the money supply, and that efficiency isn't the only measure by which we decide how to allocate responsibility between private industry and government.

Bajatripper - 9-17-2012 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
The ONLY Govt. Agencies that produce a "profit" that I am aware of are the IRS, and the Bureau of Land Management. The BLM profits mostly from it's oil and gas leases, and timber sales (or at least it used to in the 'good ol days').

Barry


Government agencies shouldn't be "for profit," they should be for the good of the country. That's the basic flaw in your economic outlook, Barry, you see everything from a for-profit perspective and forget that there's a human element to the equation.

Some of the evils of the "everything for profit" mentality are discussed here

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17509-college...

[Edited on 9-17-2012 by Bajatripper]

Mexitron - 9-17-2012 at 04:35 PM

Its time to reach across the aisle again...i'm so tired of polarizing politics and spin---from both sides.
For an example off the top of my head---let's take Social Security---Republicans want to privatize it, Dems want to leave it alone to die a slow death. How about we keep 2/3 invested as it currently is in low yield stuff and take the last third and put it in the stock market---people can choose which stocks or let the gov't do it for them.

Barry A. - 9-17-2012 at 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Its time to reach across the aisle again...i'm so tired of polarizing politics and spin---from both sides.
For an example off the top of my head---let's take Social Security---Republicans want to privatize it, Dems want to leave it alone to die a slow death. How about we keep 2/3 invested as it currently is in low yield stuff and take the last third and put it in the stock market---people can choose which stocks or let the gov't do it for them.


YESSSSSSSSS---------Excellent!!!!!

Barry

David K - 9-17-2012 at 07:11 PM

I kind feel like we should be talking about the missions or El Camino Real... they are timeless (I hope)... this election will be over soon, so let's not have any hate. America will either fail or not, and naturally I sure hope not as I do think we are exceptional and the world needs us to be an example of how a government should be at the service of the people, and not the other way around.

I seriously don't see any evidence that the framers ever intended the government to take from those who produce more and just give to those that produce less or nothing... when they are able to.

At some point the producers will say 'screw this' and leave, and not just let a government drain the life out of them. Look what's happened in states like California, where the liberals in charge have raised so many restrictions and taxes on the job creators (producers), that those companies have said 'screw this' and left. Guess where they go? To states run by conservatives with less or no taxes and no stifling regulations...

Aren't more jobs better for everyone than putting more people on food stamps??? It has got to end, this give me- give me mentality. Pretty soon there is no body left to take from ...to give to the rest!

willardguy - 9-17-2012 at 07:25 PM

what about the toyota towing the space shuttle?:bounce:

David K - 9-17-2012 at 07:28 PM

Yah? well I guess someone at NASA is using their head? ;)

willardguy - 9-17-2012 at 07:39 PM

thats bettet dk, now pour yourself a linie aquavit, make it a doble!;D

David K - 9-18-2012 at 12:52 AM

Maybe in 2 weeks at the Viking Festival!? skol!