BajaNomad

Copper Canyon Tarahumara Controversy

BajaBlanca - 11-1-2012 at 04:26 AM

ran into this site. very sad state of affairs it seems. the video of the copper canyons shows the remarkable beauty of the landscape, for those who have never been.

http://www.tierranativa.org

[Edited on 11-1-2012 by BajaBlanca]

morning blanca and thank's

captkw - 11-1-2012 at 04:34 AM

have not been there yet !and I have about the indians aound a place I think is called creel...crazy K&T:cool:

[Edited on 11-1-2012 by captkw]

Marc - 11-30-2012 at 08:21 PM

I have been to Copper Canyon four times in the past three years and assumed the area in and around was Indian owned. A few very nice hotels at the rim and simple lodgings down at the bottom are all empty nowadays. I hope the Indians prevail.

THE HOTEL AT DIVISADERO

Ateo - 11-30-2012 at 08:26 PM

Wow. Don't show that picture to my wife Marc, or I may be there next week.

DENNIS - 11-30-2012 at 08:48 PM

THe Copper Canyon is controlled by drug growers and cartels.
Read: "God's Middle Finger".

In the book it explains that the big time bad guy of the area want their kids to have a legitmate future and tourism is their most popular choice.

It also explains that tourists are given wide berth by criminals for the same reason.



.



[Edited on 12-1-2012 by DENNIS]

Marc - 11-30-2012 at 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
THe Copper Canyon is controlled by drug growers and cartels.
Read: "God's Middle Finger".

In the book it explains that the big time bad guy of the area want their kids to have a legitmate future and tourism is their most popular choice.

It also explains that tourists are given wide berth by criminals for the same reason.



.



[Edited on 12-1-2012 by DENNIS]


I took off for CC shortly after reading Richard Grant's book.

Watch this video

Ken Cooke - 11-30-2012 at 11:14 PM

It is free, and I will feel great that you enjoyed my hard work behind the computer.:bounce:


Leo - 12-1-2012 at 08:51 AM

Looks like you were at the same places I have been, Ken. Nice shots.
It is a tragedy, Blanca. Why don't they leave it as is.
In regards to the cartels, I have not noticed anything in that area. The end of the line (train) yes, Chiahuawa, or however you spell that, is a problem spot. I will certainly look out for the book, Dennis. Should be an interesting read.

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by Leo]

DENNIS - 12-1-2012 at 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leo
In regards to the cartels, I have not noticed anything in that area. The end of the line (train) yes, Chiahuawa, or however you spell that, is a problem spot. I will certainly look out for the book, Dennis. Should be an interesting read.


I hope you find the book, Leo. It will certainly change the way you see things there.
By the way....the military in the district are so entwined with the cartels, that there's very little distance between them.


http://books.google.com.mx/books?id=nctZgkIZQUEC&pg=PA47...


http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2736567-god-s-middle-fing...

Barry A. - 12-1-2012 at 09:27 AM

Ken-----------totally GREAT videos, thank you so much for posting these--------loved them, and brought back such good memories.

Barry

David K - 12-1-2012 at 10:27 AM

I can still remember taking the train to Los Mochis from Texas very soon after they finished the railroad through the canyon.... something like 80+ tunnels and about half that many bridges... I think it was around 1963/64? If I ever get my slides transferred to the computer, I will share them... I know my dad took lots of photos.

(edited to correct tunnel and bridge numbers)

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by David K]

Ken Cooke - 12-1-2012 at 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leo

In regards to the cartels, I have not noticed anything in that area. The end of the line (train) yes, Chiahuawa, or however you spell that, is a problem spot. I will certainly look out for the book, Dennis. Should be an interesting read.

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by Leo]


In Tubares, I had a verbal confrontation with some drunken "lookouts" who thought that Jay and I were sent by the CIA. The men assembled a group of 4 with arms and were ready to blow us away. Very tense moments. Jay is the bearded man in the 'Copper Canyon 2' video who removed the shock absorber from his Jeep.

Barry A. - 12-1-2012 at 11:52 AM

Cartels----------When we were there about 8 years ago, we went to a small country village one day at the bottom of the Urique Canyon, and noticed several very high profile tricked-out and brand-new 4x4 pickups being driven by very young flamboyant Mexicanos---------you can guess what we thought of THAT!!!! :O

Barry

DENNIS - 12-1-2012 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Cartels----------When we were there about 8 years ago, we went to a small country village one day at the bottom of the Urique Canyon, and noticed several very high profile tricked-out and brand-new 4x4 pickups being driven by very young flamboyant Mexicanos---------you can guess what we thought of THAT!!!! :O

Barry


You thought right, I'm sure. The book mentions that these cartel kids will shoot a man just to make sure their gun is working. There is no law that hasn't been bought and paid for in that gully.

Marc - 12-1-2012 at 02:21 PM

READ THIS BEFORE YOU GO

Leo - 12-2-2012 at 07:58 PM

I believe you guys, but when I was there for 2 weeks in 2007, nothing of that. Loved Batopilas, great hiking. Creel was a mess and snowy but never any confrontations. I did order the book Dennis. One buck plus shipping and it's on its way as we correspond.

Neal Johns - 12-2-2012 at 08:34 PM

I have led three 4x4 trips overland to Copper Canyon, Batopilas, Urique, etc. and through the mountains to Alamos, but no more. Yep, I read the book.

wilderone - 12-3-2012 at 09:50 AM

I read the book too - the author was literally looking for trouble. He was an amateur traveler of Mexico. His background was to seek out back alleys and mingle with gangs and such for "that edgy, adrenaline-hyped feeling that comes with pushingy our luck in a place you dont' belong getting by on your wits and charm and trying to make sense of it all at the same time." (at p. 17, par. 2). He went with an impression told to him that the Sierra Madre "was a remote, barbarous hinterland peopled by sinister clanfolk. There was no reason for a civilized person to go there and nothing of value to learn from such a place." He is, after all, a journalist. A journalist needs to write about something - with the best drama and incitement he can muster. I further gleaned that his ideal was to be a man like his mentor J.P.S. Brown; adding fuel to the fire were his mounting notions of adventure and history in the Sierra Madre. I'm not saying that the dark underside of violence does not exist in the Sierra Madre, but if you are a tourist minding your own business, stay out of bars and don't inquire about drug trafficking (as he often did), it is more likely you will not encounter unpleasantness. I have been to Copper Canyon twice, to Mata Ortiz 8 tmes, into the Sierra Madre for a week on a ranch. I know that near Pacheco formerly abandoned ranches are now owned by narcotraffickers and their ranches are in better shape now, and they contribute to the general economy of the region - in short, good neighbors. I intend to make another trip in April. I acknowledge that it is possible I could encounter a hyped-up crazy person who would spoil my day, so to speak, but forewarnng and avoidance should prevail.