BajaNomad

Bringing in older equipment

grace59 - 11-3-2012 at 10:01 AM

Hello Nomads, I have a question from my husband. He would like to bring down some equipment this winter to do some work on our home, but doesn't know how this will be handled at customs. He has an older welder...has had it for 15 years...that he wants to bring down to do iron work. He no longer has the receipt for it and it was purchased for much more than it is worth after all this time. How do we show value for it to pay duty?? Also, he will be bringing down an airless sprayer to do some painting. The welder will stay in Baja, but the sprayer will come back with us and then down again later...we don't want to pay duty twice on the same thing. Anyone with experience on how this is handled? Would love some advice. Thanks!

Wally - 11-3-2012 at 10:17 AM

I've driven back and forth with tools several times and no one cared. I wouldn't bring it up.

DavidE - 11-3-2012 at 10:29 AM

Sadly Aduanderos (customs people) have been hardened over the years listening to thousands of stories. Realizing this, I pull into the DECLARE lane. Park, get out and gently shake hands with the customs man. Determining the value of stuff is not the easiest thing in the world and when I converse I consider the conversation to be just that, sort of polite bargaining. "It's old, it's mine for my house (show them a CFE bill or something from the home)" but keep the conversation cordial even if the official is curt.

When the amount of duty is arrived at (sometimes it astonishes me it's so little) I am directed to the Banjercito bank window to pay. The items should be listed by type, brand name and serial number if possible. KEEP THIS RECEIPT IN PRISTINE CONDITION because it is your pass for subsequent trips. Forever.

DENNIS - 11-3-2012 at 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by grace59
He no longer has the receipt for it



Make one on your computer.

Alm - 11-3-2012 at 12:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by grace59
He no longer has the receipt for it



Make one on your computer.

Or, if you want to be totally honest, find closely comparable old and used item on Ebay and print out the page. They are aware of existence of Ebay and Amazon.

DENNIS - 11-3-2012 at 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alm
Or, if you want to be totally honest, find closely comparable old and used item on Ebay and print out the page. They are aware of existence of Ebay and Amazon.


What's dishonest about making a receipt? It's for a used welder so the paid price can't be that much . Tell them what was paid for the old relic. There probably won't be any duty on it anyway.

Lee - 11-3-2012 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
.... Determining the value of stuff is not the easiest thing in the world and when I converse I consider the conversation to be just that, sort of polite bargaining. "It's old, it's mine for my house (show them a CFE bill or something from the home)" but keep the conversation cordial even if the official is curt.


Negotiation 101. This is good.

Knukid would probably add -- ask how he's doing, how the family is, etc. No harm in being friendly.

Bob and Susan - 11-3-2012 at 01:22 PM

davidE has the correct answer...

just show them what you have...nO receipt
receipts confuse and complicate importation of small amounts

then the rule to return the sprayer is to get a letter from aduana to return it to the usa for later importation...what a pain

i would import it again if you need it later

you probably will pay a small fee...nothing is free anymore

monoloco - 11-3-2012 at 05:35 PM

Show them receipts, they love paperwork.

Alm - 11-3-2012 at 06:32 PM

With used items people sometime type a list with approximate value per item. With 1 or 2 items here is what I would do. Skip the list. Calculate 15% tax on its today's market value, to your best knowledge, and write it down - just for yourself. If they figure out some value without asking you and charge you close or less than you expected, then let it be. If they charge you A LOT more, then - and only then - politely disagree and show the print out from Ebay or Craigs or Amazon, whatever. They might not agree anyway, but it is unlikely that they will charge you double or triple.

PS: note - tax is based on CURRENT value of the item, not on what you paid for it many years ago.

[Edited on 11-4-2012 by Alm]

ADUANA

captkw - 11-3-2012 at 06:39 PM

They like paperwork but LOVE stamps (sello) LOL the more the better !!! K&T:cool:

gnukid - 11-3-2012 at 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
.... Determining the value of stuff is not the easiest thing in the world and when I converse I consider the conversation to be just that, sort of polite bargaining. "It's old, it's mine for my house (show them a CFE bill or something from the home)" but keep the conversation cordial even if the official is curt.


Negotiation 101. This is good.

Knukid would probably add -- ask how he's doing, how the family is, etc. No harm in being friendly.


Definitely! You are allowed to bring some tools even for art or racing and most racers have a welder so it's not uncommon. So two options: Say you're bringing it down as you do every year and will bring it back after the race or accept the %15-18 fee on top of the value. If you are a homeowner with FM-3 or FM-2 there is an allowable amount of % items per trip. I think it's $300 of value of imported items per person with valid visa. Either way not a big deal.

MICK - 11-4-2012 at 07:29 AM

I have brought three welders and many other tools down over the last few years. I have never had a problem not declaring them. I the one time I got a red light the guy asked what I was doing with the welder and I told him I was taking it down to do some work on my house and he said ok. As long as they dont look new like your taking it down to sell or you take two at a time. I think you would have no problem. I will say that it will depend on if you get a red light and if the guy is a jerk. But that can happen even in declare.
I would just drive thru
that's my tow pesos worth
Mick

the way !!

captkw - 11-4-2012 at 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MICK
I have brought three welders and many other tools down over the last few years. I have never had a problem not declaring them. I the one time I got a red light the guy asked what I was doing with the welder and I told him I was taking it down to do some work on my house and he said ok. As long as they dont look new like your taking it down to sell or you take two at a time. I think you would have no problem. I will say that it will depend on if you get a red light and if the guy is a jerk. But that can happen even in declare.
I would just drive thru
that's my tow pesos worth
Mick
>>> To pull up and declare is not the way !!!! K&T.. from panama to alaska borders..I have learned to cross and dont wave a red flag !!!!! K&T:cool:

Bob and Susan - 11-4-2012 at 12:00 PM

it's obvious you guys dont travel thru the border too often...

declare any questionable items...
things are NOT the same as they were 20 years ago

Well I drove by it one time !!!

captkw - 11-4-2012 at 12:09 PM

Dosnt that count ??? :lol:

Alm - 11-4-2012 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
>>> To pull up and declare is not the way !!!! K&T.. from panama to alaska borders..I have learned to cross and dont wave a red flag !!!!! K&T:cool:

This is not 80s or 90s. They are well trained now, and behave not much different from their US counter-partners. If you don't mess with them, they won't mess with you (usually). If you try any tricks and will get caught, they will make you pay full scale and beyond.

really

captkw - 11-4-2012 at 12:19 PM

I cross the baja border twice a year at least and talk to folks all the time while home in baja !!! going through waving a red flags is fine !! they will be checking you and not bothering with me !! K&T:cool: and have just a wee bit of time crossing borders !!! you do it your way and I'll do it mine... But I wont wait for your as your back at the border trying a gringo passing through ..."when in rome" K&T:cool:

[Edited on 11-4-2012 by captkw]

BajaBlanca - 11-4-2012 at 12:20 PM

I think, in this case with older equipment, go ahead and see if you don't get the green light.

With red light: the tax on older items is really so puny ..... they usually ask us what we think is the value and then they charge us based on that.


each individual is allowed $150 duty free. Which will probably be your case.

OH I forgot

captkw - 11-4-2012 at 12:24 PM

some folks are just "sheeple" and do what anyone tells them !!!!

Alm - 11-4-2012 at 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
some folks are just "sheeple" and do what anyone tells them !!!!

So far "anyone" has told them to either declare or not. Which is surely what they should do, - i.e. declare or not.

DavidE - 11-4-2012 at 03:13 PM

This all sounds funny as hell until you read the law. If you do not declare...

They can detain the vehicle at the port of entry and every item in it. Confiscated.

They will legally under the law ASSIGN A VALUE to items they consider to be taxable

The FINE is three times the TOTAL ASSIGNED VALUE of what they decide is taxable but undeclared.

You pay the fine at Banjercito or lose your car

Upon payment of the fine you get your motor vehicle and contents back

But you LOSE the undeclared items.

This is what Aduana can legally do under Mexican law. Yes they have done it. Seize a vehicle and everything in it. Americans and Canadians as well as Mexicans have learned this the hard way.

This is what Aduana CAN DO AND IT IS LEGAL. Just because they decide not to do it in most cases is because they don't want the hassle of outrage, indignant tourists, answering to the screeching telephone calls to everyone include the governor, the president of Mexico and the tourism board.

So personally I don't press it. It would take the perfect storm of meeting a customs man who just got caught cheating on his old lady, or kicked out of the little love nest versus an indignant (and possibly abusive) tourist to set this process in motion.

Go into the Aduana office and discuss the laws with a customs officer. See if you can catch anything at all incorrect about what I stated above. The process, the confiscation, the fine, the payment, anything...

"¡Buenas dias, señor! ¿Como estas?"

MICK - 11-4-2012 at 03:23 PM

In Thirty years of coming here I have never heard of this happening to anyone. ( losing there car)There are many laws just like the US they no one follows or knows about.
I do come across the border about twice a month. many times bringng things down. If I have something new Big and expensive I would think about declaring it. An old welder or sprayer they would not care less. I agree with KW why wave a red flag
Drive thru and enjoy Baja
Mick

grace59 - 11-4-2012 at 03:51 PM

I have heard of this happening in one instance...when the people were bringing in a large, flat screen tv that they did not declare...car was confiscated etc. It cost a lot to get things set back in order.
We have always saved receipts and declared when bringing in new things over the allowed rate. We just don't know how to go about bringing in things that we have owned for a long time. We just can't try to hope for the green light as we will be bringing things across on a small flat bed trailer...can't really hide that.
I am going to show my husband all of your responses and let him decide how to best show (or not) value of his welder etc.
Thanks for all of the replies. I always love reading all the differing views.

DENNIS - 11-4-2012 at 04:25 PM

You would really have to pee them off for them to take away your vehicle. Much more than just not declaring a TV.
Then again....I wasn't there.

DavidE - 11-4-2012 at 04:39 PM

One of the few times I agree with US State Dept about Mexico. I have taken the time, read the SHCP SAT libro de reglas, and talked the the Jefes at ADUANA.

I agree wholeheartedly -- vehicles seizures are not common. But almost all that I have heard about were the result of not declaring and then being argumentative and impolite to the aduanero. I have learned the hard way the following...

I have an item let's say is worth a thousand dollars...

If I didn't declare it and got red lighted or waved over to the side, I can expect to pay a hundred dollars duty minimum to Banjercito, AFTER a lot of polite pardon me's, and polite negotiation

OR

If I pull into the declaration lane, and smile, greet and shake hands, a polite discussion would reveal a duty of perhaps ten dollars. Ninety percent of the time, they just wave me on.

They do not want to see anything new. You have to remember that Mexican citizens get irate as hell when they see foreigners pass through customs when they themselves get nailed. They put pressure on Aduana to be fair. So off come the stickers and the cellophane wrap, the instruction books get hidden. My battery chargers and tools have my name on them. I label mark all electronics with my name and address. This seems to take a lot of the steam out of the negotiation on the part of Aduana.

Myself I am not going to risk my car, period. Or a whopping fine. They have you by the short hairs when you get caught red-handed. To me, it just isn't worth it. Not when the alternative is a couple of minutes and a polite conversation. Three folks in a brand new Suburban were stuck in secondary, Americans. In the back were parts for their sailboat motor, propeller, and depth sounder and single side band radio. All of it new. The vehicle, a thirty thousand dollar pull trailer and contents had been seized. Aduana did not want me approaching the vehicle so the woman came to me. Her husband was frantically trying to come up with twelve thousand dollars in cash to get their car and trailer returned. This is a bitter lesson. It sure left a lasting impression on me.

Oh yeah. The cut and paste from the US State Dept website. The quotation marks are mine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Personal Effects: Tourists are allowed to bring in their personal effects duty-free. According to customs regulations, in addition to clothing, personal effects may include one camera, one video cassette player, one personal computer, one CD player, 5 DVDs, 20 music CDs or audiocassettes, 12 rolls of unused film, and one cellular phone. Any tourist carrying such items, even if duty-free, should enter the "Merchandise to Declare" lane at the first customs checkpoint. Travelers should be prepared to pay any assessed duty on items in excess of these allowances. Failure to declare personal effects may result in the seizure of the items as contraband, plus the seizure of any vehicle in which the goods were transported for attempted smuggling. Recovery of the seized vehicle may involve payment of substantial fines and attorney's fees. See also the “Firearms Penalties” section below regarding Mexico’s strict laws and penalties regarding import of firearms or ammunition."


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Long long day on the road tomorrow.

[Edited on 11-4-2012 by DavidE]

monoloco - 11-4-2012 at 06:25 PM

We crossed at Tecate yesterday morning, I pulled into the declare lane and gave the aduana girl receipts for about $1500 worth of stuff, she asked to look in the back of the truck, which was stuffed, she didn't make me open anything or examine the merchandise that I declared. We went in the office and she did the paperwork, I ended up paying 2000 pesos. The whole thing took about 15 minutes. Very easy.

Alm - 11-4-2012 at 07:54 PM

David... Yes, it's better not try pushing your luck. Declare verbally, tell what you think it's worth if they ask, show receipts or Ebay printout if needed per situation. Smile, say Hi. Probably "Como esta Usted" rather than "Como estas". Not to teach anybody - I'm still learning this language, darn difficult at this age.

OK Folks The ? was ?

captkw - 11-4-2012 at 08:09 PM

Lets answer the ladys question !!! no... on a old welding unit you would want not to declare to the aduana !!! some folks around here think with maybe say 20 crossings.. that they know a whole bunch about mex/baja and there are few that know the ropes !! The only thing that is consistant in mex is thats its not !!!! tell you what ! dont declare the welder and if you get fined " with a receipt..I will gladly pay your fine " a bunch of newbies telling you there opinion...unless you car/truck is full of new to sell stuff and you dont have a clue on mexican culture and langauge you can have a problem!! with what your crossing with you will have a safe passage throuh the border !!! and its nice to smile,be respectful and not in a rush !!! ANY further ?'s on such matter feel free to u2u me...K&T:cool:....GEEZ !!!

[Edited on 11-5-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 11-5-2012 by captkw]

MICK - 11-4-2012 at 08:23 PM

AMEN

nbacc - 11-4-2012 at 09:03 PM

We went through with a truckload of used things for our. house............really, as I bought everything off Craig's list or it came from our house in the states. Very little was new. We pulled into the declare area and told him we had no idea what it was worth but it was all used. He asked to see and we opened up the truck and then we negoiated until we both though it was about right, paid it....then we were off and running. Around 1/2 an hour,

gnukid - 11-4-2012 at 09:11 PM

Go loaded up with crap - if they pull you into inspection say yeah check it out it's crap worth absolutely zero that's why I am bringing it to mexico - jaja buen dia y adios

jeans - 11-5-2012 at 08:13 AM

Two years ago I brought a large used flat screen TV down to give to my parents and pulled into secondary voluntarily to declare it. They were totally un-interested in it, but asked if I was bringing in old clothes.

Terry28 - 11-5-2012 at 01:04 PM

You have to remember DavidE is an expert on EVERYTHING...just ask him!!
another scare story......

QUETZALCOATL - 11-5-2012 at 01:14 PM

I pass over the border all the time with my wife-oh not that kind of "older equipment".

QUETZALCOATL - 11-5-2012 at 01:27 PM

Seriously tho when I brought down my jacuzzi we got stopped at San Ysidro they opened a special gate for us and we went back to the US. So we went to Otey and went right through but please keep in mind my wife is Mexican and was driving.

That can get you sleeping on the porch !!

captkw - 11-6-2012 at 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by QUETZALCOATL
I pass over the border all the time with my wife-oh not that kind of "older equipment".

DavidE - 11-6-2012 at 12:35 PM

Unless I have a lot of brand-new stuff secondary shines-it-on. But they are on the lookout for PC (desktop) computers, lots of old clothes (that seem obviously inappropriate), bulk chemicals, tires, or large flat panel televisions. It's a free life. To secondary or not is up to the individual.

Alm - 11-6-2012 at 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidEBut they are on the lookout for PC (desktop) computers, lots of old clothes (that seem obviously inappropriate), bulk chemicals, tires, or large flat panel televisions.

In other words, something that is either used for business (old clothes can be had for free NOB so you can make money on it), or attracts high taxes (laptops and big TVs). I wonder about tires - must be either additional tax and/or environmental restrictions, like on big batteries.

DENNIS - 11-6-2012 at 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alm
I wonder about tires - must be either additional tax and/or environmental restrictions, like on big batteries.


Unmounted tires, even used, are on the sht list They won't let you cross with them.
Race teams are given the dispensation.