BajaNomad

Camp stove fuel in Loreto?

eguillermo - 12-1-2012 at 01:20 PM

For the second time ever I'm going to do a trip via airplane/rental instead of my truck, which means buying lots of stuff once I get on the ground -- like fuel for a camp stove.

Does anyone have a good idea what can be bought (and where) in Loreto?

I have a stove that can use white gas or kerosene, which I think is called "bencina blanca" in Spanish.

However, I'll get myself a nice lightweight propane/isobutane-burning stove -- if the canisters of some kind or another can be bought in Loreto. Does anyone know if they can be?

I plan to go straight over to Mag bay Sunday morning after arriving Saturday night. This could mean that I end up cooking on wood fires, which ain't the end of the world :)

Thanks Amigos!

Bruce R Leech - 12-1-2012 at 02:08 PM

what type of fuel?

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by Bruce R Leech]

Marc - 12-1-2012 at 02:12 PM

White gas is easily available at at a number of stores in Loreto.

vandenberg - 12-1-2012 at 02:42 PM

Hardware stores sell the small propane cylinders, the ones you use for a torch.

volcano - 12-1-2012 at 08:35 PM

mega between los cabos had little colman propane canisters

woody with a view - 12-1-2012 at 08:39 PM

i didn't believe it but they can fill your empty cylinders at any place that has a bigger tank than the one you are trying to fill. you just need the correct
"adaptador"

this was confirmed a decade ago whilst camped at 3rd point!!!!

edit: p

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by woody with a view]

rhintransit - 12-1-2012 at 08:56 PM

the little green Coleman canisters can be had at Blazer Sports. I haven't the faintest idea what you need, just that those propane things are available. also, with the right adapter, you can do it yourself fill out of a regular bbq tank canister, just turn the big one upside down and let the fuel flow. again, I haven't a clue what the adapters are, and where to get them, but lots of beach camper people do it.

torch - 12-1-2012 at 09:08 PM

I have had no luck buying white gas anywhere in baja, and I have asked all over

White gas !!

captkw - 12-1-2012 at 09:37 PM

white gas is unleaded.... kerosine is a less refined than reg gas and is basically diesel..is your stove a MSR ?? cole man stoves and msr will run fine on gas at the pemex..coleman has been running this scam for a longlong time..the White gas in the red can is a cleaner version than pump gas !! make sure that when turning off you turn the knob from high to low 4 or 5 times to clean the generater which is a brass tube with a inner wound coil with a long ss "needle that runs thur it..when hot it turns the solid fuel into gas.. as in vabor..Really simple..so to answer your exact ? I know you can find it ACE in la paz.. and Yes you can fill the green bottles of propane off a bigger tank.....control the energy & you control the people.......enron??

monoloco - 12-1-2012 at 09:40 PM

Kerosene can be found at ferreterias under the name petroleo.

monoloco is correct!

captkw - 12-1-2012 at 09:47 PM

sounds like he has the msr stove that comes with 2 jets and I myself run the "magna sin" much hotter (btu) than kerosine and less plugging of the fuel system..K&T PPS just had a crazy thought....wonder how it would run on the cane alcohol ???

Mula - 12-2-2012 at 06:26 AM

Several places in Loreto sell what you are looking for.

The real problem is - you are arriving Saturday afternoon and most hardware and other than grocery stores close early on Saturday. Hardware at 1 and other stores at 4. And they do not re open later in the evening.

So finding a place open to see you the stuff might be the problem.

eguillermo - 12-2-2012 at 11:41 AM

Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the help.

Mula's right about my problem though: probably won't have a chance to get fuel Saturday night, and my plan is to drive out early to the Pacific side Sunday.

When I get back to Loreto I'll go around and take pictures of all the canisters, for the record :) I think I know which green coleman canisters you mean, and I was thinking of a lighter canister like these one for kayak camping: http://www.rei.com/product/665544/msr-superfly-stove

Anyway, I'll bring my white gas/kerosene stove if it doesn't put my bags overweight -- and will use a hobo stove for a few days if it does :)

So psyched to get out of this rain and onto the beach for some fishing and paddling!!!!!!

Alm - 12-2-2012 at 11:53 AM

Ok, as a long time camper here is my 2 cents.

The easiest way - get a small propane stove, the one that accepts 1 lb propane cartridges. Don't buy $10 top-screw propane stoves, they flip over too easily. These tanks are available in hardware (ferreteria), Electrica y Plomeria (near bus station), and possibly at sporting stores in Loreto. Note that many stores close at 5 pm or earlier, and your plane, or should I say The Plane arrives at 3 pm. Though, free-standing stove for 1 lb tank is a rare thing, mostly they are top-screw stoves. If you are really close to 4 pm, run as fast as you can to the closest ferreteria and grab long blue 1 lb tank complete with torch, it costs $25 (compare to $7 of tank alone), but you have no choice.

There can be 2 kinds of 1 lb propane tanks - short green or long blue, few cents more. Same thread, same gas. Don't buy long yellow 1 lb tanks - those are different gas.

If my memory doesn't fail me, Ferreteria Chuko's on Francisco y Madeira was still open after 4 pm on Saturday and I got a green 1 lb tank there. They also had long blue 1 lb tanks. But this is Mexico - next time they might not be open.

Re-filling a 1 lb tank is a bull-sht. They are disposable and not re-fillable, unlike 20 gallon tanks.

Plan B: get a stove for MSR/Primus LPG cartridges like the one in your link. (Free-standing are preferable to top-screw but not too much, because the canister is wide ans stable). Those are more costly and less common than 1 lb propane tanks, but I saw them in camping and hardware stores too, can't remember where.

Plan C: Alcohol stove. No simmering options, but you will always find 100% methyl alcohol in hardware or paint store, or 70% rubbing alcohol in pharmacias (works so-so).

Can't say about white gas. I don't like liquid fuel stoves, and airlines don't like them either. You'll have to wash it REALLY well, and you can't take a pressurized empty container when flying, unless it's a brand new empty container that never contained a fuel. Pressurized container is a part of the stove (unlike with LPG stoves), the stove won't work without it.

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by Alm]

David K - 12-2-2012 at 11:56 AM

As captkw pointed out 'white gas' is just unleaded gasoline.. the camping version sold at sports stores may be free of automobile additives, but the odds are that Pemex gasoline is, anyway. We know it is free of ethanol since we all get better gas mileage than on the stuff they make us buy in California.

Before the 1970's all gasoline contained lead as a lubrication and wear protector for the engine's valves. Gasoline camp stoves (Coleman) and lanterns (that you pumped to pressurize) didn't need lead, so unleaded gas was available and called 'White Gas'.

vandenberg - 12-2-2012 at 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alm




Re-filling a 1 lb tank is a bull-sht. They are disposable and not re-fillable, unlike 20 gallon tanks.



[Edited on 12-2-2012 by Alm]


Wrong!! Here is the gadget from Harbor Freight, that let yourefill disposable canisters


woody with a view - 12-2-2012 at 01:29 PM

i knew i wasn't dreaming!:rolleyes:

willardguy - 12-2-2012 at 01:37 PM

the argument regarding the safety and legality of refilling disposable canisters has been raging for years. I refill em and believe its a better alternative to filling up landfills (or worse) with spent bottles and certainly cheaper. the key is to first refrigerate the empty bottles. jmo of course!

RnR - 12-2-2012 at 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Quote:
Originally posted by Alm




Re-filling a 1 lb tank is a bull-sht. They are disposable and not re-fillable, unlike 20 gallon tanks.

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by Alm]


Wrong!! Here is the gadget from Harbor Freight, that let yourefill disposable canisters




X2. Do it all the time for camping/surfing trips away from Baja Home base.

That Harbor Freight combined fitting will work but I find it easier to use the two terminal fittings, (POL for the bulk tank and the small bottle fitting) connected to a three ft propane hose.

Remember, you have to fill the small bottle with liquid propane, not the gas.

Connect the two tanks together. Turn the bulk tank upside down so that the liquid will leave the tank via the hose. Put the small tank lower than the big tank. Keep the small tank upright. Open the valve on the bulk tank. Depress the tire valve vent on the top of the small tank to let the trapped vapor out as the liquid propane flows from the big tank to the small tank. Fill the small tank to about 80% volume. You can tell this by wiggling/shaking the small tank as it fills. It doesn't take long, (30 seconds mas or menos).

This is the same process that Coleman used to fill the small tank at the factory. They want you to think that they are disposable so that they can sell more of them. The problem is in Baja, sometimes, You can't buy more!

NO SMOKING!

Alm - 12-2-2012 at 02:07 PM

Ok, he can refill a 1 lb propane cartridge. Leaving safety aside, just 2 questions:

1) Doesn't he need to bring an empty 1 lb propane tank in air luggage in order to refill, and if so, are you sure that airline will allow this?

2) With 1 lb tank lasting 7-10 days (for one person), isn't it easier to buy a second tank if you go for a short vacation, rather than buying one small tank and one big tank? This is of course if you don't keep a permanent home in Baja - and if you do, you wouldn't worry about flying in late and buying 1 lb tank because you would have one in your shed, right?

Possible 3rd question, more a rhetoric one: how this big+small tank setup would work with kayakers flying in, getting to their put-in point by bus or somebody's ride, and then flying out? :) ... To answer the question "what bus if he has a kayak to transport" - have you ever heard of folders?

PS: almost forgot: tank-less stove Sierra Zip. A horrible thing but it works if you have no choice. Some people even like it. Not me.

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by Alm]

white gas=unleaded

captkw - 12-2-2012 at 02:08 PM

for car,boat,beach camping its hard to beat the coleman 533 dual fuel single burner stove and is around 50 bucks !! solid performer and has some btu's.. not very good for simmering ..and you can refill from from your boat/car,truck....The Msr whisper lite is around 99 bucks and is good for back packing and comes with2 jets..one for kerosine and one for unlead (white) gas... not a great camp stove...the more you know..the more you relise you didnt know !!! happy cooking !! K&T:cool:.......................................
PS..the twin burner coleman runs fine with pemex pump gas also...recommend having a spare pump and generator !!!
[Edited on 12-2-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by captkw]

Alm - 12-2-2012 at 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
for car,boat,beach camping its hard to beat the coleman 533 dual fuel single burner stove and is around 50 bucks !!

One of those occasions when I agree with captkw.

If it's more like a car camping, when you fly in, join somebody with a car, make a base camp and do daily surfing or kayaking with return to the base every night, get a double burner. It is not too light or compact for air luggage, but doable.

A good free-standing single burner propane stove - the one that is easy to pack for overnight kayaking and compact enough for air luggage - is a rarity. (There exist good free-standing stoves for red MSR cartridges like in the OP link, but this isn't a propane, though a similar LPG).

There is some cheap Free-standing single-burner this one but this isn't what I would consider a good one. Never heard of anybody using them in wilderness trips, and don't like the legs and plastic-looking platform.

The OP plans are somewhat unclear - if it really has to be a lightweight camping stove, then it means - a single burner, and then the choices are limited (I listed them before, don't want to repeat).

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by Alm]

mcfez - 12-2-2012 at 09:40 PM



There are refill devices for sale.....and they work very well :-) Finding the bottle down there in Baja shouldn't be a issue.....just look for a used bottle from others.......

White gas.....never use it. I just "fill her up" at the gas station for the last 30 years.

willardguy - 12-2-2012 at 10:08 PM

now if it had been castrol"R" bean oil it still would have tasted like sht but can you imagine the sweet smell......

Alm - 12-3-2012 at 11:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
There are refill devices for sale.....and they work very well :-) Finding the bottle down there in Baja shouldn't be a issue.....just look for a used bottle from others.......

There is a Murphy law. You are not going to find anything when you need it. This is why I carry a backup Sierra Zip when flying in, and on one trip had to use it twice. First time when the stores were closed upon arrival, and second time when a tiny valve from the propane stove somehow unscrewed and got lost. Sierra burns anything, and needs very little. 20 minutes wandering around the camp, picking up palm fronds and small twigs, and I could make a hot meal with tea.

Martyman - 12-3-2012 at 12:48 PM

White gas can be found at paint stores.

mojo_norte - 12-3-2012 at 02:42 PM

These are kind of cool - burn twigs. also charges your phone ..

http://www.biolitestove.com/campstove/camp-overview/compare/

Alm - 12-3-2012 at 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mojo_norte
These are kind of cool - burn twigs. also charges your phone ..

http://www.biolitestove.com/campstove/camp-overview/compare/

Thermoelectrical gadgets come and go, and never stay for long. Too many reliability problems. And there is no need. He can charge the phone in the car (since it looks that there will be a car).

It takes an hour to charge a small flip phone from 120V. Smartphone - don't remember, 2 or 3 hours. This is with 120V charger. From that thermo-electric gadget - maybe 6-7 hours. Feeding it with twigs on a hot Baja day, all day, and the wind always seems to blow the smoke where you are at the moment. 15-20 minutes with wood-burning Sierra to make a simple meal, is enough pain, if you count in sooty pots and hands. But doing it 7 hours - no, thanks...

[Edited on 12-3-2012 by Alm]

mcfez - 12-4-2012 at 09:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alm
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
There are refill devices for sale.....and they work very well :-) Finding the bottle down there in Baja shouldn't be a issue.....just look for a used bottle from others.......

There is a Murphy law. You are not going to find anything when you need it. This is why I carry a backup Sierra Zip when flying in, and on one trip had to use it twice. First time when the stores were closed upon arrival, and second time when a tiny valve from the propane stove somehow unscrewed and got lost. Sierra burns anything, and needs very little. 20 minutes wandering around the camp, picking up palm fronds and small twigs, and I could make a hot meal with tea.


You are saying that a airline allowed you to check in an "empty" canister? That sort of equipment has been disallowed on commercial flights.......for years.

Why carry a Sierra Zip? Just dig a little hole...or create a ring with rocks.....add palm fronds and small twigs.......presto!

I'm not impressed with any of your responses here.

Alm - 12-4-2012 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfezYou are saying that a airline allowed you to check in an "empty" canister?

No, and would have never said something like this.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfezWhy carry a Sierra Zip? Just dig a little hole...or create a ring with rocks.....add palm fronds and small twigs.......

You probably are not familiar with Sierra or similar forced ventilation stoves. It has a fan, and works like an oxygen furnace for steel production. A big difference from a fire pit, a lot more efficient, less fuel and easier to burn things that are wet or don't burn well for some other reason. Besides, making a fire pit is some work too. But, like I wrote earlier, I'm carrying it as a backup and normally prefer propane stove.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez I'm not impressed with any of your responses here.

Though amusing at times, responses from people that didn't take their time to read before responding, don't impress me too much either :) ...

[Edited on 12-4-2012 by Alm]

"...I'm going to do a trip via airplane"

mcfez - 12-4-2012 at 12:32 PM

This post is about flying in supplies. I suppose your statements were that of a broken part...that you pack in on a flight. Now.....I wouldnt be packing one of these jolly good pit burners you claim is really great stuff when space is limited and......when an item such as this can be a waste of weight ......especially when a simple method such as cavemen used 10 thousand years ago......just build a little fire. Are you really that lame........ to need all the gizmos for a simple trip? What you do for a bathroom....tow a outhouse too?
Quote:
Originally posted by Alm
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfezYou are saying that a airline allowed you to check in an "empty" canister?

I would have never said something like this.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez Why carry a Sierra Zip? Just dig a little hole...or create a ring with rocks.....add palm fronds and small twigs.......

You probably haven't tried Sierra or similar forced ventilation stoves, or you would've known the difference from a fire pit. Besides, making a fire pit is some work too.

Alm - 12-4-2012 at 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I suppose your statements were that of a broken part...that you pack in on a flight.

Huh? When and who suggested packing a broken part on a flight, I wonder...

mcfez - 12-4-2012 at 01:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alm
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I suppose your statements were that of a broken part...that you pack in on a flight.

Huh? When and who suggested packing a broken part on a flight, I wonder...


'......You probably are not familiar with Sierra or similar forced ventilation stoves. It has a fan, and works like an oxygen furnace for steel production'

Murphy law too?
....so you think one can buy batteries out in the open wilderness? Go to use this thing and the battery is dead. Oh geeze, now what? oh....I'll build a small campfire instead :-) Any boyscout reject can build a fire in any conditions. Your earlier statement sounded as if you have packed in a canister on a plane......but your didn't say that outright...just seems like that's how your story went.

What makes you so sure that this gizmo with a battery and wires hanging out of it will pass inspections without a hitch....at the airport? :-) You idea of using a "oxygen furnace" is absolutely crazy.

Do a xray on this and see the results.....


I'm just curious......do you do much primitive camping?

Alm - 12-4-2012 at 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Murphy law too?
....so you think one can buy batteries out in the open wilderness? Go to use this thing and the battery is dead. Oh geeze, now what?

Now you lay down and die :) ... Relax... The motor is tiny, 1AA battery lasts at least a few days. Never tried it for long, for me it's a backup. Works without a battery too. Ventilation is still there, natural draft of warm air flowing up in the double walls, just not as efficient as with fan. Personally, I find the fan mode too "powerful" when driftwood is dry (usually the case in Baja), and weather is warm. While simmering things like rice or buckwheat, fan is definitely not needed. Sometimes turn it on when flame is dying - better than kneeling around the bonfire and blowing by mouth.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Any boyscout reject can build a fire in any conditions.

Bonfire is no comparison to vented stove. More fuel needed, less convenient, and takes time to build. I don't have any affiliations with Sierra, but for those not into wilderness hiking/kayaking, here is the demo. It is 6" diameter x 6" height, 2 lbs with pots. 1.5 lbs in titanium. I found small aluminum pot and it packs smaller yet, roughly 5"x4", weighs about 1 lb total. I also carry a pack of 4 spare AA, for GPS and other things. It weighs a few ounces, and takes a heck of a space in my luggage, yes :)
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
sounded as if you have packed in a canister on a plane...

Must be some sound distortions. Here is what I wrote earlier about empty propane cartridges: "are you sure that airline will allow this?".
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
What makes you so sure that this gizmo with a battery and wires hanging out of it will pass inspections without a hitch....at the airport?

Experience. My Sierra is an older model, though, with battery and switch mounted under the stove, like in the video. Not "hanging out of it". When packed, it doesn't hang out of it anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
do you do much primitive camping?

Yes.

mcfez - 12-4-2012 at 03:19 PM

Bonfire! That sounds great too.... if we are roasting a few 16oz steaks....otherwise a simple 8 inch rock rimmed fire started with a Flint Knife does wonders:


Peel off the outer bark of any narrow branch (Oh! It's dry)....maybe some moss or bird's nest.....strike.....little flame arrives at your campsite. Oh...add some bigger fuel pieces as time goes on. I must warm you though about several things about doing it this way: your Swanson frozen dinners that you pack ...wont fit the little fire. ...and you'll starve because you wont eat cold food. Secondly.......take some band aids with you.....I 'm sure that you'll burn your little pinky while striking that flint that you have zero experience with.


The reviews about your city slicker gizmo is this:
".....I got an XL for emergencies, but I pull it out occasionally in summer because it's fun to use. As promised, fuel can be twigs, dried bark, pine cones and just about anything else you can get to burn in a campfire. I've burned dried corn cobs and sawdust without problems. Once it's burning well, there's plenty of heat. It doesn't handle wet wood very well, and if you manage to choke out the fire you'll get impressive amounts of smoke instead of heat."

Impressive unit :-)
".......It doesn't handle wet wood very well".

Just tells us the truth here Alm .......you are posting here at the BN from your Winnebago, yes? :-)



[Edited on 12-4-2012 by mcfez]

Jack Swords - 12-5-2012 at 10:55 AM

You guys are toying with each other, both make valid points. I own, and have used, the Sierra Zip stove. It works as intended, therefore a choice given many other alternatives. Problem is, in CA High Sierra above 10K ft, it is illegal to collect even twigs for a fire. So you are stuck with isobutane, propane, gas, etc. Back country Baja is not a problem. I spend many weeks crosscountry, off trail, in the High Sierra, ultralight, and like a small self-made alcohol stove (1 oz). But its really worthless in wet, windy conditions, but certainly ultralight. Newer 4 oz isobutane cannister stoves are great, but you carry empty cannisters out. I use them hiking and camping in Baja, but with no available cannisters, wood works whether it is an open fire or a Zip stove. Nice thing is that there are choices and one lives by those choices. Cold hard Top Ramen is edible, but not very good.