BajaNomad - SURFERS EAR: Would you get your ears drilled/chiseled in Mexico instead of in the US?

SURFERS EAR: Would you get your ears drilled/chiseled in Mexico instead of in the US?

magentawave - 12-6-2012 at 08:33 PM

I've been surfing and playing in cold water forever and have severe exostosis (surfers ear) so I need to get my ears chiseled or drilled soon so I can fully enjoy my travels through Mexico. I've been to dentists in Baja and they were fine and cheap, but what do you think about having a very specialized procedure like having your ears drilled or chiseled which is RIGHT NEXT TO THE BRAIN done in Mexico instead of the US? Any recommendations?

Thank you.

Steve

Damn,,I could have fun with this!!

captkw - 12-6-2012 at 08:46 PM

[Edited on 12-7-2012 by captkw]

mcfez - 12-6-2012 at 08:52 PM

Never heard of this.......damn interesting though!

Here's a clip of the work in progress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2...

Good luck with your operation....and here is a great site for you.
http://www.surfysurfy.net/2010/03/wear-ear-plugs-and-hood.ht...

[Edited on 12-7-2012 by mcfez]

Mcfeez and all

captkw - 12-6-2012 at 08:58 PM

water sport folks get it..not uncommon..myself as a ex diver and many years (38) a high diver (think alcapuco) I have a litte bit of the same problem...Im just ignoreing it !! K&T

Ateo - 12-6-2012 at 09:09 PM

It's real!!! The cold water closes the ear canal over time. I've been lucky so far.

I did recently find out that I have "surfers eye" though............Damn, there are consequences to surfing!!! Don't ever do it. =)

Lee - 12-6-2012 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by magentawave
...... what do you think about having a very specialized procedure like having your ears drilled or chiseled which is RIGHT NEXT TO THE BRAIN done in Mexico instead of the US? Any recommendations?

Thank you.

Steve

Are you looking for the most competent but cheapest doctor you can find.

Why not find a doctor in Baja or NOB based on years of experience?

Ateo - 12-6-2012 at 09:13 PM

Sorry, wasn't trying to hi-jack.

Pterygium (SURFERS EYE):

Pterygium (pronounced tur-IJ-ee-um) is a common eye condition that affects people who spend a lot of time outdoors. People with pterygium have a growth of pink, fleshy tissue on the white of the eye. It usually forms on the side closest to the nose.

Pterygium is also known as surfer's eye because it often affects surfers.

It is a noncancerous lesion that usually grows slowly throughout life. Or it may stop growing after a certain point. In rare cases a pterygium can continue growing until it covers the pupil of the eye and interferes with vision.

A pterygium may affect one or both eyes. When it affects both eyes, it is called a bilateral pterygium.

Pterygium is usually not a serious condition. But it can cause annoying symptoms such as a feeling of a foreign body in the eye.

Symptoms of Pterygium

Sometimes, a pterygium causes no symptoms other than its appearance. An enlarging pterygium, however, may cause redness and inflammation.

In some cases, a pterygium can grow onto the cornea (the clear, outer layer of the eye). This can distort the shape of the cornea, causing a condition called astigmatism. The result can be blurred vision.

[Edited on 12-7-2012 by Ateo]

Stickers - 12-6-2012 at 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by magentawave
I've been surfing and playing in cold water forever and have severe exostosis (surfers ear) so I need to get my ears chiseled or drilled soon so I can fully enjoy my travels through Mexico. I've been to dentists in Baja and they were fine and cheap, but what do you think about having a very specialized procedure like having your ears drilled or chiseled which is RIGHT NEXT TO THE BRAIN done in Mexico instead of the US? Any recommendations?

Thank you.

Steve

A surfer I know living in Peru just had the surgery but came NOB to have it done. The surgeon in Peru said NO WAY down here. He has had complications and more issues since, and continues treatment.

willardguy - 12-6-2012 at 09:23 PM

add a big dose of polluted water, ear infection, ever consider fishing?

landyacht318 - 12-6-2012 at 09:27 PM

I had my left ear chiseled in 11/07 up in Newport beach. The Surgeon said he had only seen once case worse than mine. Said most procedures take about 50 minutes, said mine took nearly 3 hours. Every time he chiseled out one auditory mountainesque obstruction, another one appeared, like the Andes mountain chain, all the way to my ear drum.

NO insurance, cost about 10 grand and I refused to pay some of the surgery center's bills which had the audacity to send off the bone chips to be tested for cancer and charging 750$$.

No significant pain, no hearing loss, no worsening of my tinnitus. Got the Ok to surf 4 weeks after procedure, but gave it 6 total.

My right ear is still 99% occluded, but has not become infected since the left ear has been cleared. I use ear plugs now( and for 10 years prior to the surgery), make sure to sterilize them regularly, and use 50/50 distilled white vinegar, 91% rubbing alcohol deep into both ear canals as soon as possible after a surf. The alcohol helps dry the water, the vinegar makes it acidic so bacteria can't grow.

I would not want some inexperienced surgeon learning on my skull. I have heard nightmare stories about the amount of pain some have experienced afterward. The older technique of peeling the ear off the skull for better access is not acceptable, in my opinion.

While best case scenario for my Right ear is to have the same trusted Surgeon do it, I would consider going to NZ or Australia for the surgery and an experienced surgeon. I bet even with the costs of flights and accommoditations, it would be cheaper there than here.

Very seldom, perhaps twice a year, I get a very sharp, intense pain in the cleared ear that lasts a few seconds, and then completely and quickly disappears. This pain would be intolerable if it lasted more than 30 seconds. I would have been chewing hydrocodone into the grave had that degree of pain lasted for any length of time after the surgery.

I did get a 7 day supply of Hc's after the surgery, and did take them as the doc said don't wait for the pain then take them, just take them as you would antibiotics, till they are gone.

Glad I did, as the pain afterward was so minor. Keeping the ear dry for 10 days was more an annoyance.

magentawave - 12-6-2012 at 09:48 PM

Quote:

Are you looking for the most competent but cheapest doctor you can find.

Why not find a doctor in Baja or NOB based on years of experience?

Yes exactly! I am looking for a doctor in Mexico that has TONS of experience with this procedure. Do you know of one or how I can find one?

magentawave - 12-6-2012 at 09:53 PM

I will start fishing again when I get down there (for food only) but I don't see fishing ever replacing surfing. And you're right about combining a big dose of polluted water with an ear canal that is 93% closed!

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
add a big dose of polluted water, ear infection, ever consider fishing?

magentawave - 12-6-2012 at 09:55 PM

What does "NOB" mean? And you are saying that the doctor in Baja did a crappy job?

Quote:

A surfer I know living in Peru just had the surgery but came NOB to have it done. The surgeon in Peru said NO WAY down here. He has had complications and more issues since, and continues treatment.

Ateo - 12-6-2012 at 09:59 PM

NOB = north of the border

Stickers - 12-6-2012 at 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
NOB = north of the border

Yes, came up to the U.S. and had both ears done. It seems to be a very delicate and specialized operation and he had health insurance to cover the cost.
He continues healing with some complications, infections and other issues down in Lima with the local ear specialist.

BajaNomad - 12-6-2012 at 10:11 PM

http://sprinterlife.com/2012/04/successful-ear-surgery-1.htm...

Bruce R Leech - 12-6-2012 at 10:56 PM

ouch

JohnMcfrog - 12-7-2012 at 05:17 AM

Bob, one of my best friends, and I have been surfing for over 50 years together. He had his right ear done two years ago, with terrible results. It was done NOB with a supposedly good Scripps doc. He now cannot hear at all out of the right ear without a hearing aide. He went from 60 % hearing loss to 90 % in that ear. The hearing aide is a constant issue for him. As on most elective surgery, I elect not to have them.

zoesterone - 12-7-2012 at 06:01 AM

Quote:

A doctor I used to work for invented these. Maybe they would help after you have had the drilling. http://www.proplugs.com/company_info.shtml

Taco de Baja - 12-7-2012 at 08:54 AM

Get it done NOB, if you really need it. I had my left done several years ago using the "peel the ear off the head and, and chisel the bony growth away" technique. I did hot have any loss of hearing because of either growth, but the Doc said I might later in life, and should get it done now. So I trusted him and did it.

I would likely NOT do it again. In fact I have told the doc there is no way I would have my right done, unless I absolutely have to. I still have no hearing loss in my right ear, but there are certain frequencies I now cannot hear in my left, like a tick of a certain clock: if I put my left ear on a pillow, i can hear the ticking, if I put my right on the pillow, no ticking. There my be other frequencies lost as well - who knows? I believe this loss is from the loudness of the drill and chisel used; after all, the ear drum is right there.

Recovery was weeks of pain, and I still get occasional twinges of pain.

Sure, US Docs can and do screw up, but I don't think I'd want to have someone doing this delicate procedure right next to my eardrum in a clinic SOB. If you have no hearing loss now and no other issues associated with it, you may be better off not doing it at all.

Mula - 12-7-2012 at 09:21 AM

Well, if you want to look into it SOB, there are 2 ear, nose and throat Dr.s that I know of.
Both are excellent.
1 is in LaPaz and the other is in Ciudad Constitucion.

I have had friends use both of these Dr.s with excellent results - for noses.

U2U me if you want more information.

Lee - 12-7-2012 at 01:17 PM

The only way to prevent exostosis is to wear ear plugs when you're in cold water. Couple types out there. I have both. Wear a cap with flaps over the ears or a hoodie -- both will keep them in place though I see surfers without caps/hoods wearing the ''moldable'' plugs. The problem for me with this type is it's so water tight, my tinnitis is actually amplified.

Not sure if BCS water counts as cold water. The water is about 62 (and going to get colder) at San O and that's cold enough to wear plugs.

windsurf14 - 12-7-2012 at 01:41 PM

I have surfers ear also. Nasty operation. The only guy I would use is Dr. Hetzler in Santa Cruz. Has developed a different procedure and has done many.
He pretty much only operates when its severe. Good sign for a Doc.

magentawave - 12-7-2012 at 02:26 PM

Dr. Hetzler is the guy I was thinking of going to. The "different procedure" he uses is with a chisel instead of a drill, right?

Quote:

Originally posted by windsurf14
I have surfers ear also. Nasty operation. The only guy I would use is Dr. Hetzler in Santa Cruz. Has developed a different procedure and has done many.
He pretty much only operates when its severe. Good sign for a Doc.

magentawave - 12-7-2012 at 02:28 PM

I tried all three sizes of ProPlugs and they didn't fit my ears so I'm using some others that are actually a lot cheaper. I wish I had started wearing ear plugs in the water a long time ago but I didn't know any better then so now I'm paying for it.

Quote:

A doctor I used to work for invented these. Maybe they would help after you have had the drilling. http://www.proplugs.com/company_info.shtml

woody with a view - 12-7-2012 at 04:25 PM

my doc just told me i'm going to be needing one soon.

Santa cruz doc

captkw - 12-7-2012 at 04:30 PM

They call him the mikle angio of ear work or some thing like that..he has done a lot of surfers from around the world....

landyacht318 - 12-7-2012 at 06:04 PM

Dr. Hetzler is the guy who pioneered the technique with the chisels.

I used this guy:
http://www.eardoctor.org/

No pain. No complications. Quick recovery. Professional staff. Told me a cash price for the surgeon and a guestimate for the surgical center's charges.
Would totally recommend. I called other local docs, and the phone went dead when I said I had no insurance on several of them.

When he sticks the otoscope in your ear, there is a 50 inch flat screen on either wall showing you in HD what he sees inside the ear canal. The before and after on my chiseled ear was astonishing. He was able to remove some wax from my still obstructed ear which made a huge difference. Watching him do so in real time was satisfying, i was cheering him on,:
" What about that stuff up there too?" as I watch the tool move there and feel and hear the sluurrp of wax being sucked out.

"Whohooo!!!!!! I can hear!!!!!!!!!"

I just spent 3.5 hours out in the water. Sooooo much fun. I use regular audio "triple mushroom" earplugs, not inserted so deep as to keep all the water and sound out, but placed lightly at the canal exit to keep the wind from whistling around inside my ear canals, and keep them warmer. I lost so many pairs of proplugs at 15$ a set, even with the "leash" that I gave up on them early.

No issues since before the surgery on my left, and my right ear is still 99% shut but is behaving with the vinegar and rubbing alcohol post surf ear maintenance..

Marc - 12-7-2012 at 08:03 PM

Ears? Chisels? Come to Hawaii :coolup:

oladulce - 12-8-2012 at 02:12 AM

I've had exostosis (surfer's ear) surgery 3 times on my Right ear- '82,'92, and 3 years ago as part of a pre-retirement tune-up. Dr Jack Shohet (previously mentioned) did the most recent surgery and I'd highly recommend him.

I was a hospital-based RN and had the benefit of getting the inside scoop from anesthesiologists, OR nurses, and other ENT docs when deciding who to go to. Not many ENT surgeons perform the surgery and even fewer utilize the direct approach in the ear canal.

Dr Shohet was highly recommended by a couple of great ENT docs who said the surgery is a specialty niche that they didn't have experience with. One told me "If I did your surgery I'd have to make an incision and flap the ear to expose the area to work on. Jack Shohet works directly in the canal and has lots more experience than I do. Matter of fact, you're one of my favorite nurses so you don't want me to do your surgery!"

Because of these comments by some very excellent ENT surgeons, NO I would not consider having ear canalplasty/exostosis surgery in Mexico where you're even less likely to find a surgeon with experience in the least invasive and most effective technique.

magentawave - 12-8-2012 at 09:43 PM

Does Dr Shohet use the chisel method like Dr Hetzler does?

landyacht318 - 12-9-2012 at 12:10 AM

Yes, Dr. Shohet uses the chisels primarily, but also a little grinder when needed if the growths do not shear off cleanly at the base, as would Hetzler. Every ear is different.

You now have 2 surfers on this board highly recommending Dr. Shohet from personal experience, not hearsay.

No pain, no complications, no hearing loss. My initial consultation was deducted from the surgical costs, and the followup and hearing test was also included in them.

I was given the go ahead to surf 1 month after the surgery.

Lee - 12-9-2012 at 10:48 AM

Can't find the water temp defining ''cold water.'' Anybody know what it is?

Hawaiians don't get exostosis do they?

landyacht318 - 12-9-2012 at 11:43 AM

With enough time and wind in the wet ear canal, surfers ear can still develop in tropical waters. But obviously the colder, the faster the growth.

And apparently the growth accelerates as surface area increases and stretches the already too thin skin, even thinner. The exostosis also returns more rapidly after the first harvest, so ear plugs are required to slow it as much as possible.

Genetics play a big part too.

magentawave - 12-9-2012 at 02:51 PM

Having spent some years in Hawaii, I consider Southern California to be cold water and Northern California insanely cold. Its not just the water though, because the prevailing cool wind contributes to surfers ear too which is why the right ear tends to be worse than the left ear for anyone in Southern California (prevailing north westerlies). I'm not sure but I think the years spent playing in Hawaii may have reversed it a bit.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
Can't find the water temp defining ''cold water.'' Anybody know what it is?

Hawaiians don't get exostosis do they?

El Jefe - 12-9-2012 at 02:58 PM

It just makes sense that you should go to a cold water place to get this done in order to find a doctor with lots of experience. Mexico in general is a pretty warm water place, other than the west side of Baja.

Ridiculous though that anybody's choice would have to be to go out of pocket thousands of dollars or go out of country to get this or any other surgery done. Just sayin.

Islandbuilder - 12-9-2012 at 03:20 PM

After years of surfing in SoCal and northern California, I had both ears opened up back in late 1970's. Back then it was a big deal, 3 days in the hospital for each ear, general anesthetic, weeks of recovery etc.

After that I used a hood and proplugs with leashes, but ended up with both ears closed up again. I had the right ear done again a few years ago, and what a difference! Outpatient, local anesthetic, short recovery and no side effects.

I had the first surgery in San Diego, and the second in Bellingham, WA.

One interesting factoid is that Bering Sea Alaskan natives don't get sufers ear. Not a lot of surfing there, but they are constantly exposed to cold air and moisture, yet they have some soert of genetic resistance to the problem.

Good luck on your surgery.

landyacht318 - 12-9-2012 at 06:34 PM

How often do Bering sea natives dunk their heads and get water deep in the ear canal?

I'd think multiple head dunkings in that climate is akin to a death sentence.

Islandbuilder - 12-9-2012 at 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by landyacht318
How often do Bering sea natives dunk their heads and get water deep in the ear canal?

I'd think multiple head dunkings in that climate is akin to a death sentence.

I doubt that there are a lot of head dunkings, but cold is cold, so the low temps combined with winds and spray are the problem there.

I've seen guys surfing in the Bering Sea, but it didn't look to be worth the cost to me!! Not a place to paddle out just to get your head wet.

pappy - 12-11-2012 at 10:37 AM

i have been dealing with this problem since late 80's. i have 95% plus closure in both ears. started wearing plugs and a hood while in water. has kept the growth at a standstill. couple times dr. wanted to drill 'em open, but i said no, it will only grow back in another 5-10 years(which studies have shown and which i have friends expereince).

he said ok then , but if start having monthly visits due to infection i have no choice. that was about 20 years ago.
as long as i wear plugs and hood i'm good to go.

as for operation, that santa cruz doc is the go to guy from what i've been told. and yeah, definitely got to a doc where this issue is common. wouldn't want a doc-anywhere- trying this procedure out on me for their first time and i suspect there aren't too many cases of this in mexico...

motoged - 12-11-2012 at 01:31 PM

Wow !!!!

I am not a surfer and had no idea that this condition existed.

I always just assumed that surfers were ignoring me when I spoke to them .... :lol:

I have some hearing loss in one ear due to unknown eardrum injury(ies), so can only imagine such an affliction and the "chisel" idea makes me pucker....

Good luck , guys..... :saint: