BajaNomad - How old are the fossils in Baja?

How old are the fossils in Baja?

David K - 2-15-2013 at 08:50 PM

I have been spending a long time on Google search.... and it's worn me out! LOL

Would someone in-the-know... know?

I welcome anyone with some geology or rock-hound expertise!

I have seen fossils at El Rosario, Las Pintas, south of San Felipe, near Bahia Asuncion, and, well lots of places. Either they are several miles from the beach or hundreds of feet above sea level, or both!

How old are the fossil shells, sharks teeth, and other items turned to rock we see in Baja?

Is the location where we see these fossil sea shells and teeth that was once under the water indicate a far higher sea level, tectonic tilting of the land up and out of the ocean, or both?

I realize that the fossil beds in different area might come from different geologic periods... or are they from the same period being that the peninsula is a pretty narrow sliver of land compared to the size of the earth?

Thanks for your input!

Cisco - 2-15-2013 at 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I have been spending a long time on Google search.... and it's worn me out! LOL

Would someone in-the-know... know?

I welcome anyone with some geology or rock-hound expertise!

I have seen fossils at El Rosario, Las Pintas, south of San Felipe, near Bahia Asuncion, and, well lots of places. Either they are several miles from the beach or hundreds of feet above sea level, or both!

How old are the fossil shells, sharks teeth, and other items turned to rock we see in Baja?

Is the location where we see these fossil sea shells and teeth that was once under the water indicate a far higher sea level, tectonic tilting of the land up and out of the ocean, or both?

I realize that the fossil beds in different area might come from different geologic periods... or are they from the same period being that the peninsula is a pretty narrow sliver of land compared to the size of the earth?

Thanks for your input!

At the San Diego Natural History Museum they have a really nice plate tectonics display that shows the movement of Baja (and the rest of the world) over time. Projections of future movement and some of the uplifting that has occurred on a large-scale vs the computer screen.

As a San Diego resident it's free (ALWAYS was free before) the first Tuesday of the month and they have nice and knowledgeable docents that could be of help also.

Fascinating question.

bajadogs - 2-15-2013 at 09:50 PM

The Natural History Museum in Balboa Park has a wonderful display of local San Diego fossils and Baja fossils. I have seen cliffs of seashell fossils similar to pic #2. The ones that are also similar on display at the museum were found in the same area I saw these cliffs and are estimated to be 26 million years old. Don't bother asking me where.

David K - 2-16-2013 at 01:22 PM

I just thumbed through the Roadside Geology book, and didn't spot any ages... I used to camp and explore the fossil oyster beds in the Imperial Valley (Yuha Desert)... Here is what a BLM paper says:

Visitors along the road may see evidence of this time period through
an abundance of exposed fossilized oysters and barnacles. Dating from the late Miocene Epoch, these six million year old fossils are part of the Imperial Formation and can be collected in limited quantities for personal use.

capt. mike - 2-16-2013 at 01:28 PM

i think the oldest fossils in baja can be found at trailer parks around 6 mos a year....... ;^))

chuckie - 2-16-2013 at 01:39 PM

I am almost 80, if that helps...

dirtbikr - 2-16-2013 at 01:40 PM

Wait a minite, the bible says the earth is six thousand years old, lol

DENNIS - 2-16-2013 at 01:49 PM

I used to date a fossil who was older than dirt. :cool:

wessongroup - 2-16-2013 at 01:52 PM

You're up and running today

[Edited on 2-16-2013 by wessongroup]

David K - 2-16-2013 at 02:41 PM

When I said I need "fossil dating", I wasn't speaking of eHarmony.old! :lol:

Good link... the gulf 'opened up' 4 million years ago

David K - 2-16-2013 at 02:51 PM

A Hypothesis as to the Origin of the Gulf of California

The Baja peninsula, including most of southwestern California is an elongated slab of the North American continent that has been sheared from the mainland and moved to its present position.

The postulated movement of the peninsula may be retraced backward in time and in direction. Looking back to the Cretaceous, the peninsula is brought into a likely former position with the mainland. In this arrangement, the Sierra Madre del Sur appears to continue without break from mainland Mexico into Baja California.

In Pliocene time, about seven million years ago, a zone of separation developed on the East Pacific Rise. The future Baja California peninsula and a piece of future California were sheared from mainland Mexico along a lateral fault, possibly the ancestral San Andreas fault which was then, as now, oriented northwest-southeast. During this early period of development, movement was right lateral, with the sheared-off slab moving northwest, but always in close contact with the mainland.[1]

The northwest movement seems to have been repeated slippage along the principal members of the San Andreas fault system -- the Elsinore fault, the San Jacinto fault, and the main San Andreas strand itself.

About four million years ago, the San Andreas fault proceeded to play a key role in the next phase, the opening of the mouth of the Gulf of California. While the Baja California peninsula continued to move to the northwest as a whole, its southern end began to rotate westward, opening a seaway between the new peninsula and the mainland.

This movement is thought to have been caused by torsional stress. That is, while the primary movement continued to be northwest, the northern end of the Baja California peninsula became locked against the mainland, causing the southern end to rotate westward, creating the seaway that was to become the Gulf of California.

As the Gulf continued to open, Baja California moved out to sea while the Peninsular Ranges of California remained attached to the mainland block. Movement along the San Andreas fault system was vigorous, and the San Jacinto fault became the most active member. At this time, the San Jacinto Mountains and the Santa Rosa Mountains were sharply compressed and uplifted.

Like a massive lever, the rotation caused intense compression forces at the north end, near the fulcrum. The squeezing effect helped to raise the Transverse Ranges of the Los Angeles basin (the Santa Monica, San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mountains), orienting them east-west, as opposed to the northwest-southeast direction of other major ranges of central and southern California.

Coincident with these forces, there were stresses that formed the offshore basins, such as the Santa Barbara Channel and the underwater grabens off the southern California coastline.

It thus appears that the East Pacific Rise extends well into the Gulf of California and sea floor spreading is widening the Gulf. Tensional thinning at the spreading center between the North American plate and the Pacific plate is further supported by the existence of a large intrusion of magma beneath the sediments of the Salton Sea. The result is regional metamorphism of the sedimentary fill beneath the Salton Sea, resulting in high heat flow and the geothermal activity and volcanism in the Imperial Valley.

(above from http://www.sci.sdsu.edu/salton/The%20Gulf%20of%20California.... )

mtgoat666 - 2-16-2013 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
How old are the fossils in Baja?

fossils tell a story about tectonics and climate change. you have told us repeatedly that climate science is a pack of lies, assume you would dismiss any paleontology we share with you here same as you dismiss paleontology when it's part of climate change studies,...

p.s. the answer is: many different ages; and older than dirt :lol:

BajaBlanca - 2-16-2013 at 03:13 PM

Oh boy, I sure hope someone pipes up to offer some insight as to possible ages of fossils. This is a MOST fascinating topic.

There is a mountain, far away from the ocean, and not even too close to us, that is full of fossils esp shark teeth. no other mountain in the vicinity has them, and the desert terrain around doesn't either. very fascinating indeed.

recently, islandbuilder's wife showed me her new version of THE BAJA HIGHWAY book which was updated by one of the author's kids. I need one... I love my old one and have read it many a time while going up and down the coast. It shows the signs of multiple readings in a vehicle !

Bwana_John - 2-16-2013 at 05:55 PM

Fossils usually correspond to the age of rock they are found in (although they can be older).

Fossils usually require an environment of sedimentary deposition to be preserved, igneous and metamorphic processes tend to destroy fossils.

The rock type indicates the environment of deposition (ie limestone's-shallow tropical seas, shale's- nearshore continental setting, tuff's- ashfall, ect...)

The peninsula is comprised of many types and ages of rock, and many types and ages of fossils.

Many of the rocks and fossils were not deposited at the same latitude and longitude as present Baja. They were deposited in many different environments and tectonic regimes.

Current uplifts have exposed the rocks and fossils to erosion, so that they can now be found at the surface.

The earth is VERY old, and very dynamic. So much so that "Geologic Time" can be a hard concept to comprehend.

Key word: zoology?

windgrrl - 2-16-2013 at 06:17 PM

This site looks promising...just trying to figure out how to use it:
The Online Books page

Now then, if the universe has an "infinite past with no beginning" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time then one could just enjoy being in the same moment with one's discoveries.

Living in the present,
W

:dudette:

BajaRat - 2-16-2013 at 06:17 PM

just talked to my 7 year old daughter,
amonites are dated from early Devonian to cretaceous period, or 400 to 65.5 million years ago. She identified some other Baja fossils but I can't spell them. when I get home I'll have her spell them with aprox dates. :cool:

P.S. She didn't learn that in school..... It's her bag.

[Edited on 2-17-2013 by BajaRat]

Good info....

windgrrl - 2-16-2013 at 06:30 PM

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015068331860;ski...

...identifies and describes observations of geological periods.

wilderone - 2-17-2013 at 09:37 AM

This report says about 8.6 million years for the shells around Bahia Asuncion.
Kinda technical report but fascinating. I would assume some of the dating could be applied to other areas of Baja CA. I've read elsewhere that, e.g., the geography around Punta Baja, has not shifted too much. Not too far inland would be estuary - where you can now find tree and dinosaur fossils (so not underwater as a seabed).

http://satori.geociencias.unam.mx/11-2/(11)Moreno.pdf

[Edited on 2-17-2013 by BajaNomad]

BajaLucy - 2-17-2013 at 10:00 AM

Thanks for an interesting topic. Keep us posted from any incoming News I want to learn more and I bet many other Baja lovers too thank you, :?:

Pompano - 2-17-2013 at 10:42 AM

Baja Fossils.

I have some great camcorder movies of some fossilized shell beds we found long ago on one of the old trails into Pta. Chivato. If I can master the how-to-do-it of video 'uplink'?, I'll try posting it on Nomads.

Also to do with fossils, a couple years ago, a buddy found a very large shark tooth in an arroyo near an East Cape beach. Megladon, a big brute. In the next photo, I am holding a normal-sized, present-day shark tooth.

From Wikipedia and for what it's worth, The most commonly found fossil shark's teeth 'worldwide' are from the Cenozoic (the last 65 million years).

p.s. Thanks to Skipjack Joe for the 'Jaws' movie photo. "This one will take 4 barrels.."

[Edited on 2-17-2013 by Pompano]

[Edited on 2-18-2013 by BajaNomad]

tripledigitken - 2-17-2013 at 10:51 AM

I'm guessing 65+

:lol:

Skipjack Joe - 2-17-2013 at 10:56 AM

El Roario's Mama Espinoza's restaurant has local ammonites on display. These animals ranged from 500M to 65M BC. So the fossils and the peninsula is at least 65M years old. Muy viejo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonoidea

[Edited on 2-17-2013 by Skipjack Joe]

geomike - 2-17-2013 at 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
I'm guessing 65+

:lol:

The winner is trippledigitken as long as he was talking about the rocks in the El Rosario area and as long as he meant 65+ Million years!

David here is a link to a google earth .kmz file from the UCSD. I'm not much of a hand with Google Earth but I know you are. It opened up a really slick Geologic Map of Baja California
Geologic map of Baja

There is no Legend attached to the map

Look for the El Rosario area and you will find extensive areas of light green rock with splotches of tan and brown.

The light green is labeled Krm. "K" stands for Cretaceous and the rm would be a local formation name abbreviation (probably "r" for Rosario "m" for marine)

The tan and brown colored areas are rocks of Tertiary age ("T" indicates Tertiary)

So in this area we have rocks spanning the famous Cretaceous Tertiary Boundary, at 65.5 Million years.

The K-T boundary (65.5 Million years before present) is most famous for killing off the Dinos. Less so (and in my opinion more tragically) it is the end of the Ammonites!

There is a building front in El Rosario (about half way through town maybe about opposite of the Sinai Hotel and RV park) that has huge specimens of this beautiful fossil creature incorporated in the masonry facing. Wish now I had made the picture stop.

wessongroup - 2-17-2013 at 12:30 PM

thanks mike, way cool link ...... wished they had this back when I was in school, what a tool at ones finger tips ... it all good

Skipjack Joe - 2-17-2013 at 12:32 PM

Too bad about the missing legend. If you have the time and desire a time period of the remaining 7 colors would be helpful.

This looks like a really worthwhile book to purchase. But pricey.

http://www.amazon.com/Reconnaissance-geology-California-Geol...

David K - 2-17-2013 at 12:47 PM

Thank you geomike and others for your links and comments. I have collected fossils in the Yuha desert in the 60's, and recall the old timer in Ocotillo, CA telling us they were 10 million years old. I just started writing a new article and wanted to provide the best estimate, plus (as Blanca says) this is interesting.
Thanks for the photos Roger.

Taco de Baja - 2-17-2013 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Lots of different ages from 10,000 +/- to 10s of millions.

The ammonites and wood around El Rosario is Late Cretaceous (dinosaur times).

Much of the stuff in Baja with shark teeth (Rosarito/Tijuana, Bahia Asuncion, Punta Blanca) are Miocene (23 to 5 million).

The areas with Ice Age Animals (Bison, horse, camel, mammoth and mastodon, sloth, - Think La Brea Tar Pit type animals) are from the middle to Late Pleistocene (~300,000 to 10,000 years ago).

As stated earlier, the Google Earth KMZ layer is not too useful without the geology key...But the formations/units that begin with an uppercase ”Q” are from the Quaternary (~2.58 million years [1.8 million in older texts] ago to the present); those beginning with a "T" are from the Tertiary (~65 million to 2.58 million years old); those with a “K” are from the Cretaceous (~145 -65 million years ago). Colors also give some info: Light browns, yellows, and greens are generally sediments, pinks and reds are granitic or intrusive, dark browns and oranges are volcanic, purples, blues, and dark greens may be metamorphic.

http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/kmlgeology/kmz/baja140/baja140.html

David K - 2-17-2013 at 02:20 PM

Guys... good news! I HAVE this geologic map of Baja (Norte), it is huge, in three sections, and I will scan the 'key' to what all the letters stand for.

Thanks a lot GeoMike and Taco de Baja... The only Nomad geologist I know is GeoRock, and she just doesn't post here much...

I will try and get the legend for the 1971 geology map up this afternoon!

bajacalifornian - 2-17-2013 at 02:38 PM

Friggin' old . . .

David K - 2-17-2013 at 02:43 PM

1971 Legend and close up of the rock type codes

geomike - 2-17-2013 at 05:03 PM

Saaweeet! treat that map with great care David! The replacement cost is HUGE!
GSA Memoir 140

And if you ever want to capitalize that asset please call me first!

Thank you for the scan!

boe4fun - 2-17-2013 at 06:10 PM

My wife says I'm so old that I fart dust!

Taco de Baja - 2-17-2013 at 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
1971 Legend and close up of the rock type codes

Thanks David!

There is a copy over at my mom's that my dad bought soon after it was published....but I have no idea where it might be.

BigOly - 2-17-2013 at 06:31 PM

Thanks David!

Ateo - 2-17-2013 at 06:43 PM

This is a fascinating topic. I explode with interest when thinking about holding something that is 100,000,000 years old!!

I want to own a meteorite someday. Just knowing that thing was floating around the Solar System for billions of years is now sitting on your mantle would be (in a Huell Howser voice) AMAZING!!!!

We live in a pretty magnificent reality.

David K - 2-17-2013 at 07:19 PM

If the map wasn't so huge, I would scan it... but the link to kmz file of it for Google Earth seems to work great at zoom ins.

I got the map in the mid 1970's by ordering it from the publisher. I can't recall where I first saw it to get the address? It has dirt roads on it that just weren't on any other maps (well in the early 1970's the Lower California Guidebook had the best maps of roads... and they are still good today if you can overwrite them with the new paved and graded roads. This 1971 map had the 'Azufre Wash' (Cañada el Parral) road from near the sulfur mine across to Valle Chico (with 'abandonada' next to it) and helped me find it in 1978 after I had been searching since reading about it in the older edition of 'Camping and Climbing in Baja'... the newer editions edited out any mention of it. It also had the back road that goes between San Quintin and El Arenoso, avoiding El Rosario, used for Baja races sometimes since 1973 (avoiding the new paved highway).

The legend is also in Spanish in the opposite corner of each map.
In the bottom corner of the 3 part map is "Copyright 1973, The Geological Society of America, Inc."

Zoom in on it and see lots of previously unmapped roads, specially for 1971. The "improved road" ended at about where Jardines in San Quintin is today... but pavement was not past Camalu.

David K - 2-17-2013 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geomike
Saaweeet! treat that map with great care David! The replacement cost is HUGE!
GSA Memoir 140

And if you ever want to capitalize that asset please call me first!

Thank you for the scan!

That is the memoir (#140), but I wonder if it it included the 3 piece map?

Valle Chico, Parral, Matomi....

David K - 2-17-2013 at 07:32 PM

.. and the abandoned road to the sulfur mine...

mtgoat666 - 2-17-2013 at 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
This is a fascinating topic. I explode with interest when thinking about holding something that is 100,000,000 years old!!

I want to own a meteorite someday. Just knowing that thing was floating around the Solar System for billions of years is now sitting on your mantle would be (in a Huell Howser voice) AMAZING!!!!

We live in a pretty magnificent reality.

If you like old rocks, there are Precambrian sedimentary rocks just north of san Felipe. No fossils though. Not so sure they are really Precambrian, jury is undecided

There are some Ordovician conodonts in Guadalupe valley area.

According to creationists none of these rocks are more than 6 or 7 thousand years old. Same people say man can't change climate. Ha,ha. So a man can create the world in 7 days, and billions of people can't change the world in a century or 2. Ha, ha.

David K - 2-17-2013 at 10:20 PM

Man didn't create the world, silly goat.

bajadogs - 2-17-2013 at 10:45 PM

You missed goat's point silly DK. Stay on-topic.

Skipjack Joe - 2-17-2013 at 11:48 PM

Thank you geomike for the link to the map.

I spent several pleasant hours today scanning that map and trying to make out how it related to what I had seen all these years. It explains why there is water in the canyon by the Santa Maria mission and why Morro Santo Domingo looks so incongruous with the rest of the area.

The blue and green areas would be interesting to explore for minerals, I would think. Is there a corresponding map for Baja Sur? I'm wondering if there's the same green area near Santa Rosalia as the one near El Arco.

Barry A. - 2-18-2013 at 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thank you geomike for the link to the map.

I spent several pleasant hours today scanning that map and trying to make out how it related to what I had seen all these years. It explains why there is water in the canyon by the Santa Maria mission and why Morro Santo Domingo looks so incongruous with the rest of the area.

The blue and green areas would be interesting to explore for minerals, I would think. Is there a corresponding map for Baja Sur? I'm wondering if there's the same green area near Santa Rosalia as the one near El Arco.

I have a hard-copy of the same Geo-map as David shows here, but I don't believe there was ever a southern Baja quad made -------just don't think it was ever completed by the same team, but I could be mistaken on that, SkipJack.

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2013 at 12:28 AM

You're right, Barry. He and his students didn't map the southern regions.

BTW, the author of this wonderful work passed away just a very few months ago:

http://memorialwebsites.legacy.com/gordongastil/Subpage.aspx...

Bob H - 2-18-2013 at 12:52 AM

David, check with Georock... but, I have not seen her around here lately.

bajacalifornian - 2-18-2013 at 01:52 PM

Hey David, here is a fossilized clam taken from the Gigantes behind me. As far as age, it had to precede the upheaval of the mountain.

David K - 2-18-2013 at 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadogs
You missed goat's point silly DK. Stay on-topic.

Oh I did get it, he meant to insult Christians who take the Bible date as Gospel, ... and why not tell him to stay 'on topic', it is my thread, after all.

Now, back to your regular programming. :light:

David K - 2-18-2013 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H
David, check with Georock... but, I have not seen her around here lately.

She is one of my Facebook friends, and she is out there, just not here. Many good people just get tired of the confrontation or whatever (as in this thread, now), and don't come here any more... sad.

I post as much for the lurkers who love Baja and want to know or see more (but won't join Nomad) as I do for my friends here, such as you Bob.

mtgoat666 - 2-18-2013 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadogs
You missed goat's point silly DK. Stay on-topic.

Oh I did get it, he meant to insult Christians who take the Bible date as Gospel, ... and why not tell him to stay 'on topic', it is my thread, after all.

I told you where to generally find Ordovician fossils and purported Precambrian sed rocks. If Precambrian sed rocks in north Baja don't get your juices flowing, then you are hopeless! Precambrian! Crickey! (Isn't that more exciting than a Cretaceous ammonite or a Miocene oyster !?!?!?!?)

People that take bible dates as truth! Dios mio! :lol:

DavidE - 2-19-2013 at 03:27 PM

I get nervous when I read Picacho del Diablo has sea bed fossils near the summit of 10,000+ feet altitude. I also get nervous when I read and hear of earthquakes occurring on the Vizcaino peninsula and then not finding any faults at near anywhere near the area with geodetic survey maps. I think this peninsula has some whoppers in store for those who live here and think they have it all figured out.

Mexitron - 2-19-2013 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
El Roario's Mama Espinoza's restaurant has local ammonites on display. These animals ranged from 500M to 65M BC. So the fossils and the peninsula is at least 65M years old. Muy viejo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonoidea

[Edited on 2-17-2013 by Skipjack Joe]

Technically, the peninsula is only around 7 million yrs old (it was still part of the mainland)---the rocks that compromise the pensinsula are 65 my+ though. Evidently, some of the desert paving out there is river rock deposited by rivers that flowed from present day Sonora out to the Pacific...pretty cool stuff!

Mexitron - 2-19-2013 at 04:01 PM

Found these mid-peninsula...Taco de Baja thought they looked like brachiopods, some of which go way back into to Ordovician (450 mya)...these rocks look quite old and "cooked", possibly by a nearby emergent granitic pluton.

Taco de Baja - 2-19-2013 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I get nervous when I read Picacho del Diablo has sea bed fossils near the summit of 10,000+ feet altitude. I also get nervous when I read and hear of earthquakes occurring on the Vizcaino peninsula and then not finding any faults at near anywhere near the area with geodetic survey maps. I think this peninsula has some whoppers in store for those who live here and think they have it all figured out.

Fossils at the summit of Diablo? Really? It's all granite up there; someone's pulling your leg with that story. However those mountains were pushed up there by movement along faults, and yes it’s been fairly quite over the last 100 years or so, aside from that “little” Easter shaker in 2010 in the general vicinity…

. There will no doubt be more whoppers for in Baja in the future.

Now if you want scary elevated fossils, consider there ARE seabed fossils on Mt Everest (29,035 feet). Pushed up there by plate tectonics and earthquakes (not a "flood").

David K - 2-19-2013 at 05:16 PM

Brooks, that is what I wonder about a site like Las Pintas... 600' plus above today's sea level and over 15 miles from today's coast. On the opposite side of Baja, about 400' ASL and 5 miles from the coast...

The question is was the sea level hundreds of feet higher or did Baja raise up from the ocean that existed when those oysters and lobsters were alive?

Now over in West Texas and New Mexico, we have the Guadalupe Mountains and Carlsbad Caverns that we are told was a ancient reef under an ancient sea.

Loving the historic geology!

Taco de Baja - 2-19-2013 at 06:04 PM

Quote:

The land rose up.

Just like along the San Diego, Orange and Los Angeles County coast lines where we can still see (in spite of the development) some of the wave cut terraces on the coastal mountains. The San Joaquin Hills in OC are over 1,000 feet high and rose up in a little over 1.2 million years. At the top of the San Joaquin Hills there are 1.2 million year old marine terraces cut into the hills with sediment that are around 10 million years old.

The Palos Verdes hills in LA have well developed, and well-studied terrace deposits.

San Diego has a bunch too. The nice flat bench in Camp Pendleton, near the check point, is a wave cut terrace that’s around 120,000 years old.

The flat areas around San Quintin and just before El Rosario, same thing....

There are also marine terraces off the coast that are currently below sea level that record sea level changes over the last 18,000 years as sea levels rose 400 feet in response to melting glaciers.

Ateo - 2-19-2013 at 06:07 PM

FASCINATING!!!!!!!!!!!

mtgoat666 - 2-19-2013 at 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Brooks, that is what I wonder about a site like Las Pintas... 600' plus above today's sea level and over 15 miles from today's coast. On the opposite side of Baja, about 400' ASL and 5 miles from the coast...

The question is was the sea level hundreds of feet higher or did Baja raise up from the ocean that existed when those oysters and lobsters were alive?

Now over in West Texas and New Mexico, we have the Guadalupe Mountains and Carlsbad Caverns that we are told was a ancient reef under an ancient sea.

Loving the historic geology!

Almost all of Baja has been uplifted Miocene to today. Most of coastal Baja has Pleistocene terraces, punta Banda has really nice collection of wave cut terraces.

Several terraces are submerged offshore. Anthropogenic sea level rise will submerge another terrace offshore, a terrace with lots of human detritus that may be of some interest to future fossil hunters, perhaps providing environmental lesson for future earthlings

Skipjack Joe - 2-20-2013 at 12:05 AM

The greenland and antarctica ice sheets account for 99% of all freshwater ice on land. If they melted sea level would rise about 210 feet. So any fossils above that elevation could not have possibly been produced without rising land masses.

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*All ATF and NFA rules and regulations apply

[Edited on 2-20-2013 by durrelllrobert]

Taco de Baja - 2-20-2013 at 09:35 AM

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Originally posted by mtgoat666Several terraces are submerged offshore. Anthropogenic sea level rise will submerge another terrace offshore, a terrace with lots of human detritus that may be of some interest to future fossil hunters, perhaps providing environmental lesson for future earthlings

Nothing is guaranteed Goat. Animals die and we get to find their fossil remains. Change is part of the cycle of life.

BTW, what lessons did we not learn from the melting glaciers that caused sea levels to rise 400 feet between 18,000 and 8,000 years ago?

Whose fault was it for this "devastating" period of "climate change"? Just think of all the poor animals (and people too) who were displaced by this massive flooding and inundation.....It was a heck of a lot faster than anything we are experiencing now.

mtgoat666 - 2-20-2013 at 09:59 AM

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Originally posted by Taco de Baja

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your argument is preposterous. like saying that people die anyway, so not worth preventing a murder.

Osprey - 2-20-2013 at 10:18 AM

Goat, if you have the time, Wiki up Milankovitch cycles that might explain long term temp patterns and predictions based on known orbital data.

Taco de Baja - 2-20-2013 at 10:24 AM

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Originally posted by mtgoat666your argument is preposterous. like saying that people die anyway, so not worth preventing a murder.

People used to think they could change the climate by sacrificing goats, pigs, chickens, and sometimes fellow people. Humans simply have big egos, but the climate will do what it wants. Just like earthquakes will continue to push fossils high above the seafloor. We are not as "special" as the AWG crowd believes.

mtgoat666 - 2-20-2013 at 10:58 AM

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Originally posted by Osprey
Goat, if you have the time, Wiki up Milankovitch cycles that might explain long term temp patterns and predictions based on known orbital data.

i know about 'em.

...but saying that climate changes for natural reasons so we should not care about our own anthropogenic changes to climate is SAME as saying that people die due to natural causes so you should not care if i choose to kill a few people myself.

geologists dont take schist from anyone!

[Edited on 2-20-2013 by mtgoat666]

David K - 2-20-2013 at 11:16 AM

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Originally posted by Taco de Baja

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Originally posted by mtgoat666your argument is preposterous. like saying that people die anyway, so not worth preventing a murder.

Awesome response! :light:

grizzlyfsh95 - 2-20-2013 at 01:15 PM

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Originally posted by David K

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Originally posted by Taco de Baja

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Originally posted by mtgoat666your argument is preposterous. like saying that people die anyway, so not worth preventing a murder.

Awesome response! :light:

Ditto