BajaNomad - FMM Question regarding pre-paying and multiple entries

FMM Question regarding pre-paying and multiple entries

buenasolas - 3-14-2013 at 05:13 PM

I have yet to get an FMM, since in the past I have gone no further than San Quintin, and never got checked at Maneadero. These trips were almost always 3 days or less. From what I've been reading I need to get an FMM now if I am going outside of the immediate border zone and/or staying more than 72 hours, is that correct?

I want to know whether I can get my FMM ahead of time, and if so where? I live in San Diego, so would be happy to go down and cross on foot via San Ysidro to fill out paperwork, etc. I have read that you can pay ahead, but still have to get your FMM stamped upon entry. I plan to request the max of 180 days, and want to know how to make multiple entrances/exits within this 180 days. Also, what is the procedure for returning/relinquishing your FMM at the end of your trip or 180 days.

In case it matters, I would probably get my FMM at San Ysidro or Otay IF I can get it ahead. I will probably cross at Mexicali for my next vacation to Puertecitos and BOLA. So if I am getting it the day of my trip, it would be in Mexicali.

Thanks in advance, I've already picked up quite a bit from lurking the forums.

David K - 3-14-2013 at 05:42 PM

You will plenty of answers or opinions, or not... but I always keep my FMM (well they were FMTs until a year or two ago) for the full 180 days (well about a week before they expire you are 'supposed' to mail them back in (or turn them in to immigration). A mailing address has been posted here by me and others in the past...

The Maneadero checkpoint has been closed since the 1980's I think... They began checking at the Eagle Monument (Baja Sur border on Hwy. 1) after that... State tourism people have said all of the northern state was the tourist zone, but alas that is really a federal rule and there has yet to be any update from them in print or Internet to be posted that I have seen changing the 'always south to Maneadero or San Felipe' and 'less than 72 hours anywhere' rule for getting a tourist card.

Better to have it and not need it... than to need it and not have it, right?

[Edited on 3-15-2013 by David K]

Whale-ista - 3-14-2013 at 05:59 PM

Agree "better to have/not need" philosophy. Apply it liberally with dogs medical records, prescription medications, gas and water.

Went thru multiple military checkpoints to/from San Ignacio lagoon. We were never once asked to show the FMM, doc vaccination records or any other documents until the Tecate crossing back into the US. Then, passport/cards only.

Typical situation: the soldados at the checkpint north of Jesus Maria warned us not to spend the night at Pta Prieta because of "bad people." So we drove thru the checkpoint north, then turned around and went south to find a hotel in Jesus Maria (they waved us thru), then went north thru it again the next morning around 5:30 (it was cold!)- and all they asked for each time was my name and the year of my truck, and took a look inside the camper shell

The poodlegreeted them each time. I assured them "no es brava." We had no problems.

Pacifico - 3-14-2013 at 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You will plenty of answers or opinions, or not... but I always keep my FMM (well they were FMTs until a year or two ago) for the full 180 days (well about a week before they expire you are 'supposed' to mail them back in (or turn them in to immigration). A mailing address has been posted here by me and others in the past...

[Edited on 3-15-2013 by David K]

According to Mexican immigration, the FMM is to be turned in upon exiting the country. It is only "good" for 180 days if you stay in the country; it is not good for multiple entries. If caught with an old FMM, it can be a $200 usd fine. Just beware...

David K - 3-15-2013 at 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifico

Quote:

It isn't 'old' until 181 days... and while they might love to collect $23 or more dollars every time an American crosses the border of a trip of 3+ days or south of Maneadero/ San Felipe... that just isn't really something that can be enforced if it is a rule, considering they do not collect the FMM when you cross back out of Mexico, and there is no process for this in the northbound lanes. How can you tell when a car in the line at the border was just coming back from Guerrero Negro or Ensenada, or shopping only in Tijuana?

I think they word it that way because foreign people in general may take a Mexican vacation no more than once every 6 months to a year. So, at the end of your (annual) vacation to Mexico, you are told you need to turn in the tourist card. We Nomads are the exception taking more vacations into Mexico!

Here's my logic on this (perhaps a wrong opinion, but it is one that hasn't yet failed me in nearly 50 years going to Baja). Back then the tourist card was FREE (until mid-2000) and there was an office next to Hwy. 1, just south of Maneadero where they were issued or stamped if you got one at the consulate in San Diego or L.A., as you could before...

Case in point about multiple entries: on the last time we got FMM's we went to Tijuana a week before our summer trip, to get the FMM's so it wouldn't require a stop there on our trip's first day, a Saturday morning, which we have experienced in the past as being busy.

We told the IMN agent that was what we were doing, that very day... it wasn't an issue, so we had that one for a second trip, next week. People do it a lot, walk into Mexico, get an FMM and leave Mexico to drive back later... a second trip, technically.

What if I walked into Mexico, got my FMM, then didn't use it for 100 days, then took my 15 day trip to Baja Sur? It is still valid for the second trip, within the 180 day period.

What if you crossed into Mexico every Sunday for a drive to El Rosario... Are you really going to go that often if you had to pay $23, every week, for 6 months? If that was the rule/ law/ then look at how much harm it would cause to the people of Baja if you chose to either not give $500 dollars to a government with no accounting of where it goes. Or, spend $500 on supporting people in Baja buy buying goods and services.

Some people are living in Baja on FMM tourist cards, and come north twice a year to buy new ones? How is that okay compared to another person going south 20 times for weekends only. Both people are 'documented', one stays most of the time in one place, and the other spends more time driving.

The military has NOTHING to do with inspecting tourist cards or passports, however it is easier for them to copy your name off either one of those, or a drivers license... So they ask for those things as they often do note your name, destination, starting location that day, car year model... At Gonzaga Bay military checkpoint they asked for my drivers license, but my passport was easier to show them, and it was a better substitution for them to copy my name. For you newbies, the military are only charged for finding guns, ammo, illegal drugs.

[Edited on 3-15-2013 by David K]

paranewbi - 3-15-2013 at 05:41 AM

Got an FMM last November on way to Gonzaga Bay. Kept it crossing at Tecate on way back after 1 week.
Went to Tlaguepaque two Thursdays ago (3/7) via TJ airport (volaris $35 each way!) walked past immigration counter, never asked to show my 'old' FMM and returned on (3/12). Never once asked to show it any time any where. Still good 'till May 18th...looking for that deal on volaris to maybe use it one more time!

RnR - 3-15-2013 at 07:49 AM

All of the above is good information.

However, the FMM permit states on it, "Must be turned in when leaving Mexico", (paraphrased).

I think that this is written on the back but I can't verify it directly as I do not have an FMM directly in hand. Somebody that has one, What does it say??

FYI: BajaBound 's website has a page that describes the "border zone", "tourist corridors", "72 hr time limit w/o FMM", "the process", etc.

Also, a Q&A section - "Is it possible to enter and exit Mexico multiple times with the same tourist card (FMM)?" No, Tourist cards (FMM) are not multiple entry.

Link to BajaBound's page: FMM Info

To each his own .....

Pacifico - 3-15-2013 at 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifico

Quote:

David,

I agree with many of your points and think the way they have it set up is ridiculous. However, it is the law. I don't think they make exceptions for Nomads.....
I also use mine for multiple entries knowing it is a gamble and could be an issue someday. I hope it never is.....

It's Crazy

bajaguy - 3-15-2013 at 09:02 AM

For a country that encourages tourism and would like more foreign dollars, Mexico sure makes it hard on tourists to know and follow the rules

Bajajorge - 3-15-2013 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
For a country that encourages tourism and would like more foreign dollars, Mexico sure makes it hard on tourists to know and follow the rules

Mexico knows they have a cash cow back north of the border. They know how to butter their bread.

sancho - 3-15-2013 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifico
According to Mexican immigration, the FMM is to be turned in upon exiting the country. It is only "good" for 180 days if you stay in the country; it is not good for multiple entries

This is the ONLY correct reading of Mex Imm regs, anything else
re: so called mulitiple entries is INCORRECT, this has been
the reg since the fmt days, Any mention about there is no place to return an fmm is not an excuse, for the practical
application, few land travellers return an fmm when exiting,
I don't, I cross at San Felipe where it is easy to hop out
of the vehicle while in line crossing back, and walk to
to Mex Imm and return it before it expires. I have never
read or heard of any visitor being questioned or denied
an fmm beacuse they did not return a previous one,
Mwx Imm does seem to have the computer capability
of tracking fmm's, to confuse things, Mex Imm may
tell you you don't have to return an fmm, it's Mex

[Edited on 3-15-2013 by sancho]

Address for turning in your FMM

tripledigitken - 3-15-2013 at 11:25 AM

INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE MIGRACION
PUENTE PUERTA S/N
COLONIA FEDERAL
TIJUANA, B.C. MEXICO C.P. 22310

We have been mailing ours back for about the last 3 years, before that is was never an issue to our knowledge.

David K - 3-15-2013 at 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifico
According to Mexican immigration, the FMM is to be turned in upon exiting the country.

Exiting for the final time, before it expires... perhaps? Even this is false, as they clearly have provided a mailing address to have you send them in, from the USA, before they expire (or after your trip if you aren't going back before)!

So they grant a wavier knowing it is physically impossible to get over to the southbound border where the INM office is, when you are northbound for America... People with RVs and trailers have no hope in most border cities. You don't have to turn it in when you leave Mexico is what having a mailing address means... So relax... It really is just a cash cow for the feds in Mexico.

It hurts tourism by adding a bureaucratic hassle to an already fearful tourist who can easily choose other places than Mexico to vacation.

mtgoat666 - 3-15-2013 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
For a country that encourages tourism and would like more foreign dollars, Mexico sure makes it hard on tourists

do you know how hard it is for mexicans (and many other foreigners) to get visas to be tourist in USA? :wow:

entering mexico seems relatively easy, i don't think it could get much easier.

now that san ysidro immigration is all computerized i may start mailing in my old visas,... hate for them to someday choose to realize i have not complied.

David K - 3-15-2013 at 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
For a country that encourages tourism and would like more foreign dollars, Mexico sure makes it hard on tourists

do you know how hard it is for mexicans (and many other foreigners) to get visas to be tourist in USA? :wow:

Not the same... Americans don't come into Mexico en mass to get free services, have babies (to get more free services), and in any way burden the Mexican taxpayer. Tourism is a major source of income to Baja.

mtgoat666 - 3-15-2013 at 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Not the same... Americans don't come into Mexico en mass to get free services, have babies (to get more free services), and in any way burden the Mexican taxpayer.

no, they come en mass to work for gringos for low wages.

while they are here they pay taxes, make gringos rich by providing low cost labor, etc., i think they contribute more than they partake in govt services. it all depends on how you measure what you measure.

sancho - 3-15-2013 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Exiting for the final time, before it expires... perhaps?

Why do you keep putting YOUR spin on this? What don't
you understand? The 180 day is applicable for a CONTINUOS
stay of 180 days. This is not open for your interpertation.
It is not for mulitiple entries, do most of us it for mulitiple
entries, of course: http://www.sandiegoleisure.com/FMMVISAFORM.html

larryC - 3-15-2013 at 03:55 PM

Buenasolas
To try to help with your question, since you live in San Diego, you can get the Mexican FMM at Discover Baja in Univercity city area of San Diego. 3264 Governor Drive, San Diego, CA 92122. 619.275.4225. Much easier than crossing the border a few days in advance of your trip.
Good luck and have fun.
Larry

David K - 3-15-2013 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by larryC
Buenasolas
To try to help with your question, since you live in San Diego, you can get the Mexican FMM at Discover Baja in Univercity city area of San Diego. 3264 Governor Drive, San Diego, CA 92122. 619.275.4225. Much easier than crossing the border a few days in advance of your trip.
Good luck and have fun.
Larry

Larry, the pre paid Discover Baja obtained FMM still needs to be stamped at the INM office when you enter Mexico, so the stopping at the border is still going to take place to validate that tourist card. If you cross when or where there isn't an open money taker at the border, then the DB prepaid FMM is a gem... that still requires a stop, park, walk to the INM window/ office to have it validated.

David K - 3-15-2013 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Exiting for the final time, before it expires... perhaps?

Hi Sancho, like you, I want the facts... that link is to a private company that makes money issuing visas. Show me (us) a Mexican Federal Government web page that says you can't get an FMM on Monday and use it to come back on Saturday!!! Two, Five, ten crossing of the border with the same FMM withing its active 180 days is both done and there is no way to have it not work that way unless every car or pedestrian that crosses the border is stopped!

I did it (used it for two trips) with the blessing and smiles of the INM officer, last July... I posted all the details and photos then, too!

I am not telling anyone here what to do or to not pay the fee... pay it as much as you like, give them double... but you got to understand nobody on Baja Nomad has been fined or sent to jail for using an active FMM or FMT for more than one trip to Baja! I have also not heard of ANYONE being 'caught' for not returning the unexpired FMM or FMT either by mail or in person! Don't take this for saying avoid the law, take this for saying the law is unclear, and I think if $23 is good for 180 days for one gringo, then it should be good for all gringos! The law should be fair, equal, and blind to whom it applies.

David K - 3-15-2013 at 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Not the same... Americans don't come into Mexico en mass to get free services, have babies (to get more free services), and in any way burden the Mexican taxpayer.

I have never seen any Mexican work for an amount he wasn't okay with getting, and I have never known anyone in the industry I am associated with (landscape construction) to pay illegal low amounts. Nobody forces them north at gunpoint.

I personally have used the same man for about 8 years now, I pay him about $20/ hr. and buy launch, we work about 6 hours a day... sometimes more (when I have work for him, which hasn't been much the past 4 years). He works for various people and he is always happy when I have a job for him. He is documented, and has lived here for 20 years I think. He has a fairly new wife and son in Tijuana, and a brother in Ensenada, which he frequently visits. He suffers with the border wait more than most of us.

If this economy was back as it was pre 2007 congress, I would be doing far more work, and sharing more wealth with more people... that's how you grow an economy... Not by punishing the job creators with higher taxes, more regulations, and socialized health care that was sold to us with lies (it won't cost $2,500/ month/ family less, you won't get keep your current insurance or doctor as they will be gone or so high priced you will be forced into another system).

chuckie - 3-15-2013 at 06:46 PM

Yada Yada Yada...Wife got a prepaid FMM from Vags....Crossed at Tecate Thursday LESS than 3 minutes to validate....On the road..

Lee - 3-15-2013 at 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Not the same... Americans don't come into Mexico en mass to get free services, have babies (to get more free services), and in any way burden the Mexican taxpayer.

You're doing your best to make this thread about you. Aren't you? And your Republican politics?

David K - 3-15-2013 at 07:31 PM

Not at all, but it was to respond to Goat's assertion that American business is evil and the rest of the socialist crap. Is socialism not the enemy of free people anymore. Is it okay for one point of view (MtGoat666) and not another? See the Villa Bahia thread if you don't know what I am talking about here.

sancho - 3-16-2013 at 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Show me (us) a Mexican Federal Government web page that says you can't get an FMM on Monday and use it to come back on Saturday

Couldn't find a Mex Govt site, but I did find a note on bajabound that CLEARLY states 'not for mulitiple entries',
I know you champion bajabound, so you should let
them know their site is incorrect:
http://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/visa.php

David K - 3-17-2013 at 12:08 AM

I also write for Baja Bound, so I appreciate your upholding their sources so highly!

Please do what you feel you must to obey the letter of the law. I think I obey the 'spirit of the law' as much as the next guy, and if a 'letter' from the INM that cleary says the 180 day FMM is not always good for all 180 days, that it magically invalidates itself if you cross back north before the 180 days ends, I will bow to this cloudy detail. I would also like to read in this new letter where the south limit of the 'Border Zone' is in Baja.

Before I get pounced on (again) for posting my beliefs here, let me tell you that other than re-crossing 5 days after getting FMMs for our 15 day trip, I have NOT been south of the 'border zone' or be in Mexico longer than 3 days before the FMM expired. So, I didn't break the letter of the law.

Recrossing several days after getting our FMM was A-OK with the INM officer... but it sounds like you think it was no good for the second trip into Mexico?

What Mexico's INM and Baja Nomad (to help Baja) needs to work on is getting people to go Baja (or go again)... The money spent by vacationing Americans WAY WAY out supports Mexico than a $23 fee, paid each trip one takes south. KISS (Keep It Simple Silly)!

paranewbi - 3-17-2013 at 07:03 AM

"Before I get pounced on (again) for posting my beliefs here, let me tell you that other than re-crossing 5 days after getting FMMs for our 15 day trip, I have NOT been south of the 'border zone' or be in Mexico longer than 3 days before the FMM expired. So, I didn't break the letter of the law." DK

Whew! Thanks for clearing that up DK...for a second I thought you were going to have to be excomunicated for not meeting the high standards of abidance we all have for the letter of the law!

"no, they come en mass to work for gringos for low wages" mtgoat666

They come here to gain a wage that is 4-6 times what they would be paid in their own country for the same work. As for your masses statement associated with somehow abused peoples, stand at the border on a weekday and count the masses that enter the US for those wages everyday and then return to Tijuana, Otay, and Tecate while calculating that it is worth every penny for those long lines and long days to take it back to their homes in Mexico and contribute nothing by paying property taxes, Durable goods taxes, food taxes or gas taxes as those of us who work AND live here do. Add in the cost of accomidating their entry by providing a massive border system and the crowded highway to get these NON-AGRICULTERAL workers to do the jobs 'we won't do'. Just sayin

Mula - 3-17-2013 at 08:28 AM

How about all the Americans who live in Baja Norte and work in California or in IT online?

watizname - 3-17-2013 at 08:49 AM

I get my FMM's from Vagabundos when I need a new one for a trip. I get the new one validated at the border when I cross, then I figger I'm home free for six months, and make as many trips as I want until it expires. Then I repeat the process. Might be questionable, but never had a problem. Once your in Mexico, how'er they gonna tell if you made multiple entries on the same FMM??
My $2 :cool:

Ateo - 3-17-2013 at 08:55 AM

Just to muddy the water some more, when I got my FMM 2 weeks ago, the officer at San Ysidro said there was no longer a "border zone" nor a "72 hour window".

He told my Mexican wife in perfect understandable Spanish that if you come to TJ for a taco for 10 minutes, you need an FMM.

That's what he said.

We got ours and paid at the 24 hour bank and were on our way in 10 minutes.

David K - 3-17-2013 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paranewbi
"Before I get pounced on (again) for posting my beliefs here, let me tell you that other than re-crossing 5 days after getting FMMs for our 15 day trip, I have NOT been south of the 'border zone' or be in Mexico longer than 3 days before the FMM expired. So, I didn't break the letter of the law." DK

Whew! Thanks for clearing that up DK...for a second I thought you were going to have to be excomunicated for not meeting the high standards of abidance we all have for the letter of the law!

"no, they come en mass to work for gringos for low wages" mtgoat666

They come here to gain a wage that is 4-6 times what they would be paid in their own country for the same work. As for your masses statement associated with somehow abused peoples, stand at the border on a weekday and count the masses that enter the US for those wages everyday and then return to Tijuana, Otay, and Tecate while calculating that it is worth every penny for those long lines and long days to take it back to their homes in Mexico and contribute nothing by paying property taxes, Durable goods taxes, food taxes or gas taxes as those of us who work AND live here do. Add in the cost of accomidating their entry by providing a massive border system and the crowded highway to get these NON-AGRICULTERAL workers to do the jobs 'we won't do'. Just sayin

Thank you!

David K - 3-17-2013 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mula
How about all the Americans who live in Baja Norte and work in California or in IT online?

So, are you presuming they have only FMM tourist cards or no visa at all... in both cases a violation? Unless the stop and pay $23 every day they return to their home in Mexico?

David K - 3-17-2013 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by watizname
I get my FMM's from Vagabundos when I need a new one for a trip. I get the new one validated at the border when I cross, then I figger I'm home free for six months, and make as many trips as I want until it expires. Then I repeat the process. Might be questionable, but never had a problem. Once your in Mexico, how'er they gonna tell if you made multiple entries on the same FMM??
My $2 :cool:

Pretty much who most of us see it... right or wrong. At least we pay for a new one once the old one expires for our next trip to Baja Sur. How many do you think don't ever bother? 80%, more...? Count the U.S. cars crossing the border, then count how many are at the INM office getting a new FMM at that moment... ! Right???!

David K - 3-17-2013 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
Just to muddy the water some more, when I got my FMM 2 weeks ago, the officer at San Ysidro said there was no longer a "border zone" nor a "72 hour window".

He told my Mexican wife in perfect understandable Spanish that if you come to TJ for a taco for 10 minutes, you need an FMM.

That's what he said.

We got ours and paid at the 24 hour bank and were on our way in 10 minutes.

Of course we know the guy must be on drugs or in need of a reality check... Tijuana has the world's busiest border crossing. If every non-Mexican car and pedestrian stopped at INM to get a tourist card... even the FREE 7 DAY FMM... none of us would ever be able to get into Baja.... the INM line would stretch north... to the Golden Gate Bridge!

Visits into the border towns, and as far as Punta Banda/ Maneadero for up to 3 days has to be free flowing or tourism by drivers and pedestrians would surely come to a halt. Sonora also has a border zone for visitors to El Golfo and Puerto Peñasco... maybe further? I know you don't need a car import permit if you go no further south than Guaymas.

My discussing this topic is meant to encourage more Americans to visit Baja, and not break laws. By going to Baja (and norther Sonora) we so greatly improve the income for Mexicans there. The people should come first, not feeding some government bureaucracy that prevents the money flowing south by its lack of clarity!

IF an FMM was required at a certain point southbound, then the government would enforce it as they had years ago near Maneadero, with a migra checkpoint... AND THEY DO, AT THE BAJA CA SUR border (on Hwy. 1).

They want as many tourists to be in Baja as possible, so a roadblock to get FMMs at Tijuana would be out-of-the-question, wouldn't it?

Thank you for discussing this and what you were told in Tijuana... I wonder if he gets a % of the take in for 180 day FMMs? :light:

sancho - 3-17-2013 at 12:34 PM

Quote:

Always clear as MUD, there was a guy going fishing SQ,
stopped for a free 7 day fmm, was told the free cards
are good only as far so. as Rosarito Beach, after that the
$24 dll fmm. I have read a recent Mex Govt publications
stating ALL VISITORS TO MEX NEED AN FMM, we all can
agree Mex Imm regs have never been clear, always vague

RnR - 3-17-2013 at 01:32 PM

Okay, here's some facts straight from the mouth of an INM officer from the La Paz office.

Background: I was visiting with my Mexican neighbors just down the street a few hours ago. Their daughter is an INM officer in the La Paz office. Guess who walked in the door for the Sunday afternoon family gathering??

So, this was a great opportunity to get some actual facts onto the Nomad board. She actually pulled out her phone, pulled up this thread, read parts of it, kinda smiled, and here are her comments:

1. The FMM is a single visit permit and must be turned in when the holder leaves Mexico. Period!

2. The fact that FMM stands for "Forma Migratoria Multiple" means "multi-purpose" form not "multiple entry" form.

3. One purpose of the form is for collecting statistical data on visitors to Mexico. IE: residence location, areas visited, length of stay, mode of transportation, etc. (If you read the form, this statistical purpose is stated in two places.)

4. Not turning the form in, multiple visits, keeping it open beyond the end of your visit, etc skews the data that the Mexican government is trying to collect.

5. Control of the form for tourists arriving by air and ship is very good and provides accurate data. Land borders are more difficult to control (now) and INM knows the data is not correct. However, land visits for people actually needing the FMM form (those traveling outside the border zones) is a small percentage of the total visitors to Mexico and the statistics are adjusted.

6. She couldn't comment on the border zone boundaries as it is outside the jurisdiction of the La Paz office. You would need to ask at one of the local border offices.

So there are the facts straight from an immigration officer. Understand the facts and do what is best for you, individually.

Attached is an excerpt from the top of the departure ticket for the current FMM:

[Edited on 3-18-2013 by RnR]

FMM Highlight.jpg - 27kB

DianaT - 3-17-2013 at 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Not at all, but it was to respond to Goat's assertion that American business is evil and the rest of the socialist crap. Is socialism not the enemy of free people anymore. Is it okay for one point of view (MtGoat666) and not another? See the Villa Bahia thread if you don't know what I am talking about here.

Curious, in which post made by goat, did he mention or even allude to socialism or state that business is evil?

rts551 - 3-17-2013 at 01:47 PM

RnR. thanks for something factual that goes beyond "I just know"

DianaT - 3-17-2013 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RnR

5. Control of the form for tourists arriving by air and ship is very good and provides accurate data. Land borders are more difficult to control (now) and INM knows the data is not correct. However, land visits for people actually needing the FMM form (those traveling outside the border zones) is a small percentage of the total visitors to Mexico and the statistics are adjusted.

Thanks --- excellent conversation and information. Number 5 is interesting because I think many of us forget that most of the tourists beyond the border zone do not arrive by car and many who do drive have some different immigration status.

Ateo - 3-17-2013 at 02:36 PM

RnR rules!

RnR - 3-17-2013 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
RnR rules!

Thx

David K - 3-17-2013 at 04:28 PM

Thank you RnR for taking time to ask and share what this La Paz officer knew.

Let her know maybe, that there is no practical system in place for auto travelers to turn it in before leaving Baja CA, Mexico (i.e. no hand off booth in the northbound lanes). They (INM) actually provide a mailing address to send it back from outside of Mexico.

Interesting the thing is for research and not for 'accountability' of foreign visitors. :light:

skipowell - 3-17-2013 at 05:01 PM

It is funny how we all get different information and answers in Mexico. In December my husband I went on a road trip to Southern Baja, being that I have been to lazy to keep my FM2 up to date I had to get a FMM. We have a house in the Rosarito area so cross the border several times a month. The agent warned me when I got my FMM to be sure to turn it in before the 180 days as they are tracking them now. I decided last trip down to go ahead and turn my in so I wont forget or lose it by June. The agent looked at my paper and then asked me if I was going into Mexico again, which I was on my way to doing when I was dropping it off. When I replied yes, he told me to wait till it is about to expire to turn it in. SO i put in in my safe not that it is going to do me any good there, and marked my calendar. SO the agent at the San Ysidro border told me NOT to turn it in yet. He knows I was coming from the US and was using it for multiple crossings.
SO who knows the real answer!

David K - 3-17-2013 at 06:18 PM

Thanks for your story skipowell.

Hook - 3-17-2013 at 06:59 PM

I can also reiterate a story similar to skipowell. An INM agent insisted that I keep the FMM (180 day variety) if I was coming back into the country, so that I could use it again.

This was about two years ago, so it is possible things have changed. I have had an FM3/No Inmigrante/Residente Temporal card since then.

For such an important aspect of government, you'd think that Mexico would eventually get it together and be on the same page at the same time, across the country. Instead, they have changed the entire processes and cards three times in five years...............and never seem to be able to train their employees about it before they spring it on the public. This last "revision" was almost 18 months late in being released......and their agents were still befuddled.

Once upon a time many of us came to Mexico to escape all the rules and regs involved with living in the US. Now, Mexico is adding the rules and regs........but they cant agree, internally, on how to administer or enforce them from Chiapas to TJ. It's getting to be WORSE than dealing with the predictable rules and regs of the US.

Just ask anyone who lives down here. MANY are throwing in the towel and going BACK to the FMM or selling out completely. Lots of inventory over here in San Carlos.

RnR - 3-18-2013 at 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Thank you RnR for taking time to ask and share what this La Paz officer knew.

Let her know maybe, that there is no practical system in place for auto travelers to turn it in before leaving Baja CA, Mexico (i.e. no hand off booth in the northbound lanes). They (INM) actually provide a mailing address to send it back from outside of Mexico.

Interesting the thing is for research and not for 'accountability' of foreign visitors. :light:

The INM officer's main point was that the FMM was a single visit permit and that it is to be turned in upon your departure from Mexico.

If your preferred (or only) method of return is by mail, then to meet the intent of the law, it should be mailed in after every visit. Obviously, this choice is up to the individual.

[Edited on 3-18-2013 by RnR]

sancho - 3-18-2013 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RnR

The INM officer's main point was that the FMM was a single visit permit and that it is to be turned in upon your departure from Mexico.

If your preferred (or only) method of return is by mail, then to meet the intent of the law, it should be mailed in after every visit. Obviously, this choice is up to the individual.

[Edited on 3-18-2013 by RnR]

Hopefully this puts and end to this, but I doubt it, seems clear to me,
most of us use the fmm for more than 1 visit, but
it OBVIOUSLY was not technically intended as such

[Edited on 3-18-2013 by sancho]

Pacifico - 3-18-2013 at 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho

Quote:

Exactly Sancho!

David K - 3-18-2013 at 11:37 AM

The thing seems to have been designed for the single visit tourist, arriving by air, as they actually have someone retrieve it from you, before you fly out of Mexico.

No such person for auto travelers, is located along the exit road from Mexico... So, mailing them is a workable solution! Even though you have 'left the country' before mailing it, I think that is not a crime of the law, since they acknowledge that?

However, is that return instruction or mailing address on the thing? I mean not everyone reads Baja Nomad that goes to Mexico, right? :yes:

$23 or whatever the peso amount is for 180 days 'should be' the same deal for everyone. Why punish the frequent traveler (who likely benefits Mexico more) over the one trip traveler?

What kind of thank you or reward for making return visits, if you are taxed (punished/ charged/ whatever) for coming back to Mexico withing the 180 days since the first trip???
:wow:

mtgoat666 - 3-18-2013 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
What kind of thank you or reward for making return visits, if you are taxed (punished/ charged/ whatever) for coming back to Mexico

DK:
you didn't get your thank you and reward last trip? they always give me a certificate of appreciation when I pick up my FMM. Last time they had a marching band and girls in bikinis welcoming me at San Ysidro immigration desk. Perhaps you should quit going to Tecate xing and go to the SY xing during regular biz hours (the bikini girls and band only present 9 to 5 weekdays)

David K - 3-18-2013 at 12:03 PM

:lol:

Figure of speech goat... For those of us that want to earn what we make, it isn't so easy to hand over cash twice for the same thing... Maybe for you, it's no problem when cash is taken from your neighbors and handed over for someone else to use? I chose to vacation in Mexico (when I can), and want more of my vacation money to go to the people of Baja.

sancho - 3-18-2013 at 02:32 PM

Most/many of us do not want to pay 2/3 times in
6 mo. to go to Baja, so we don't, a lot keep the fmm until
it is close to expiration, then turn it in at your
discretion, just don't claim you are within your rights
to use it for mulitiple entries, you are not, it's easy to admit you're
wrong, there is not 1 BN that knows everything about
Baja

David K - 3-18-2013 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
Most/many of us do not want to pay 2/3 times in
6 mo. to go to Baja, so we don't, a lot keep the fmm until
it is close to expiration, then turn it in at your
discretion, just don't claim you are within your rights
to use it for mulitiple entries, you are not, it's easy to admit you're
wrong, there is not 1 BN that knows everything about
Baja

That's the truth! :light:

buenasolas - 3-22-2013 at 02:18 PM

WOW! I forgot to check back up on this thread until today. Next time, I need to remember to check the "receive email on reply" box.

Thanks to everyone for the very informative responses. It was exactly what I was looking for, knowing the letter of the law, and also how much people have bent it.