BajaNomad - Genetic Genealogy & Familias Antiguas Begins!

Genetic Genealogy & Familias Antiguas Begins!

Baja Bucko - 3-19-2013 at 05:59 PM

Well, after spending almost 40 yrs researching the old families of Baja California, I've entered the modern world of genetic genealogy, starting off with collecting the DNA of a specially-selected group of 4 males. I hope to establish a "signature" of sorts for the Y of Sebastian Constantino Arce and his brother, Jose Gabriel Arce, the founders of the Arces of both Alta and Baja California. At the same time as money allows, I will also been testing several Villavicencios and Mayorals among others. I have an extensive paper trail of research so I think the genetic aspects should be interesting in many ways.

While up at R. San Gregorio last week, very distinguished patriarch Francisco Arce, whose family I have spent time with for several years, sat quietly, with that Californio gleam in his eyes, as usual, saying something only when he knew he could get a laugh from the onlookers. I was honored to be allowed to swab his cheeks for a sample, Socorro, Lupita and Loreto looking on.

Last November I carried in, by mule, of course, a 10 generation pedigree for him. It was 45 8 X 11 sheets of computer paper, taped together to make a huge 5 sheet by 9 sheet pedigree....larger than the kitchen table. Explanations brought looks of amazement as I discussed various ancestors back in the 1700 and 1800s. His entry in to the DNA age is a start and hopefully the tiny database will grow as prices drop for these tests. I guess it should be called the Californio Project.....there, it's named.

So here I sit in San Ignacio, finishing up more adventures and headed off to more! I ain't a phD and don't have a lot of money but I'm having a blast. How can you NOT love Baja!!! :bounce:

PS Excuse the mistakes here ...the IPAD is new and allows me to carry over 4000 names in my database all over by mule. I am not real computer literate.

LaTijereta - 3-19-2013 at 06:29 PM

Great experiance to look into that part of Baja history...

Checkout Leland Foester's book "The Californios" which has stories and photographs from all these families..

Baja Bucko - 3-19-2013 at 06:30 PM

Leland's is an excellent collection of pics...I have met many of these folks over the past 40 yrs....

David K - 3-19-2013 at 06:38 PM

This is wonderful to read Teddi!

Keep up the good work, I know Harry Crosby would be (or is) very proud of you, too!

Leland Foerster's book

David K - 3-19-2013 at 06:50 PM

c2003

Baja Bucko - 3-19-2013 at 07:20 PM

Thanks, David. I have not told Harry abt this yet but he will find out soon enough......as I toasted him once while eating lunch w him a few years back..."It's ALL YOUR FAULT, Harry!". :biggrin:

TMW - 3-19-2013 at 07:38 PM

This is excellent stuff, thanks.

Marla Daily - 3-20-2013 at 08:28 AM

Good for you! I'm a cultural anthropologist working on similar projects and am happy to share my related work. I've concentrated on a few original family lines, including Villavicencios, and have some 1200+ of them, down to the original two who arrived in BCS.
Harry C. has been of great help to me through the years. I've visited his library several times.

The San Martin Canyon near Cadeje has many descendants of those in Harry's landmark book. (I had those I found sign my copy. None had seen the book before.)

Fun stuff!!

David K - 3-20-2013 at 09:41 AM

Very Cool Marla!

DianaT - 3-20-2013 at 09:56 AM

I hope both of you will be able to put your work in a format that will be available to the families, and available in Spanish. I know there are many members of the families who would be interested.

As they are not in short supply in our area, one of our good friends is a Villavicencio and at his oldest daughter's quinceañera, there were dozens of Villavicencios from all over Baja Sur, Baja, and the mainland who attended. We know that at least some of them are very interested in their heritage and do not know much about it. Of course, among this group there are also many Arces.

Have fun and wishing you both much success in your work!

Baja Bucko - 3-20-2013 at 10:38 AM

For several years I have ALWAYS put together in Spanish any information for all the rancheros and families. Just this past few days I spent a lot of time discussing genealogy with many vaqueros from the Sierra. This information is para Los Ninos and the adults always understand the importance. A few yrs back I gave a presentation at the Internado in Santa Marta for the kids and they loved hearing the stories of their ancestors and seeing the collection of old fotos of their past 4 generations.

As I show lengthy pedigrees I teach them how to read them and so many times the folks' eyes light up and you hear...so that is my bisabuelo's name! 30 yrs ago I was the nosy gringa around the campfire....now any cowboy in attendance knows I can recite his pedigree back at least 5 generations...very cool!

Since my grt grt grt grt grt grt grt gr mother is a daughter of Sebastian Constantino Arce, I am always being greeted by many of the clan ---"prima!". I am also a Mayoral and a very old Marron plus many other of families Antiguas of Baja California and I will be including those lines in the Californio Project along with the Villavicencio clan. Since my first Villavicencio choice was off at his ranch on a really baaaad camino, I fell into getting my first Y sample from the Patricinio part of the old family. When I return in Nov. I will be Y testing at least 10 more folks.

It is ALWAYS for the Ninos.

DianaT - 3-20-2013 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bucko
For several years I have ALWAYS put together in Spanish any information for all the rancheros and families. Just this past few days I spent a lot of time discussing genealogy with many vaqueros from the Sierra. This information is para Los Ninos and the adults always understand the importance. A few yrs back I gave a presentation at the Internado in Santa Marta for the kids and they loved hearing the stories of their ancestors and seeing the collection of old fotos of their past 4 generations.

As I show lengthy pedigrees I teach them how to read them and so many times the folks' eyes light up and you hear...so that is my bisabuelo's name! 30 yrs ago I was the nosy gringa around the campfire....now any cowboy in attendance knows I can recite his pedigree back at least 5 generations...very cool!

Since my grt grt grt grt grt grt grt gr mother is a daughter of Sebastian Constantino Arce, I am always being greeted by many of the clan ---"prima!". I am also a Mayoral and a very old Marron plus many other of families Antiguas of Baja California and I will be including those lines in the Californio Project along with the Villavicencio clan. Since my first Villavicencio choice was off at his ranch on a really baaaad camino, I fell into getting my first Y sample from the Patricinio part of the old family. When I return in Nov. I will be Y testing at least 10 more folks.

It is ALWAYS for the Ninos.

While it is a ton of work, I hope you will some time be able to publish the family trees; maybe on the internet? It is just such a wonderful project.

Baja Bucko - 3-20-2013 at 12:50 PM

I have always had a problem with posting pedigrees on line mainly because if anywhere there is an error in my work or others w less diligence that error becomes truth and gets passed on. Ancestry.com is notorious (spelling) for WRONG trees and info because anyone can build these trees. I have spent over 40 yrs researching everything I can locate and I see people just grabbing info off the net and not checking facts.

I am sure I will put together something eventually and the whole new world of genetic genealogy just expands that horizon. It is an exciting time now for the citizen scientist.

Anything at these websites should always be considered w caution as to accuracy.

David K - 3-20-2013 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bucko
I have always had a problem with posting pedigrees on line mainly because if anywhere there is an error in my work or others w less diligence that error becomes truth and gets passed on. Ancestry.com is notorious (spelling) for WRONG trees and info because anyone can build these trees. I have spent over 40 yrs researching everything I can locate and I see people just grabbing info off the net and not checking facts.

I am sure I will put together something eventually and the whole new world of genetic genealogy just expands that horizon. It is an exciting time now for the citizen scientist.

Anything at these websites should always be considered w caution as to accuracy.

Teddi, as long as you know the details are correct, it isn't your fault if you get mis-quoted by a future writer. Please share what you have worked so hard at to give it even more value, to others.

I am also asking for your generosity in telling about your El Camino Real discoveries and adventures the past dozen years. Max Kurillo and I have begun updating his popular 2000 Sunbelt book ('California's El Camino Real and its Historic Bells'), but instead of just a couple of pages on Baja's portion, we will now have much more...

Harry Crosby and Howard Gulick did so much to tell the story of what they found in the 1950's-1970's... so it would be wonderful to add your findings to the new book.

I can only see and draw its location, using Google Earth and Harry and Howard's maps... and have only hiked a few miles on the mission road. Please consider it???

Neal Johns - 3-21-2013 at 11:23 AM

Teddi,
I know you are a busy. important lady, but DK is right, if you do not publish something on the El Camino Real (as seen from a mule) I will beat you soundly like a drum! :-)

Let me know when you get home (or stop by) and I will kick in a buck for the DNA tests.
Neal (HiW #?)

KurtG - 3-21-2013 at 11:40 AM

Quote:

I have the greatest respect and admiration for what you are doing.

Baja Bucko - 3-22-2013 at 10:37 PM

Neal.....I am now on this side of la Linea in San Diego. I have to go work and make money so I can go back down. The folks I tested this trip are very interested and their adult children VERY interested. In Nov I will be testing a whole bunch more.

One guy we joked w at first thought it was a blood test. When I told him no, it wasn't and then said to him "bend over".....he took a double take and we all laughed. I love these Californios-no finer people exist.

DianaT - 3-23-2013 at 08:40 AM

You are correct --- the internet would not be a good place to publish. It was not a good suggestion on my part. Protecting your years of work is a good thing as many are quick to steal it from the internet

But I do hope you are able to publish your work --- would love to buy your book about the Camino Real and about the families especially as gifts for some friends.

[Edited on 3-23-2013 by DianaT]

shari - 3-23-2013 at 08:50 AM

ahhh prima...eres una maravilla! and you know you are probably related to mi esposo who is Arce Marron!!! Hey maybe you can sample him!

I think your project is very worthy and some of us would surely kick in some pesos to help it advance.

Shari

bajaguy - 3-23-2013 at 08:52 AM

Any relation (known of) to a Leopoldo Arce in Ensenada????

shari - 3-23-2013 at 09:10 AM

Juan doesnt know a Leopoldo Arce but there are probably thousands of Arce's in Baja...that family has been very prolific!
we are all related!

Baja Bucko - 3-23-2013 at 01:41 PM

There is a saying in the Sierra San Franciscos that if you throw a rock high up into the sky, when it comes back to earth it will land on the head of an Arce. :lol:

jkarce - 3-2-2019 at 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Baja Bucko

There is a saying in the Sierra San Franciscos that if you throw a rock high up into the sky, when it comes back to earth it will land on the head of an Arce. :lol:

Hi Teddi,

Perhaps, you may be able to help me.

My name is John Arce. I was born and raised in San Diego, California, but now live in Europe.

Might you have any information regarding the Arce Davidson family which had roots in San Telmo, BC? As a teenager I visited their home and ranch there with my father (George David Arce, born in San Ysidro, CA, 1934) a few times around 1980. They were relatives of his father Gabriel Arce Davidson (born?) who died of pneumonia in the 1930s. According to my father my grandfather was born in Ensenada but his family was from San Telmo.

Unfortunately, before my father passed away, I was only able to get limited information about our roots and family tree.

Here is the limited information I have:

My great grandfather from San Telmo was Jose Antonio Arce. His wife was Maria or possibly Margaret (Davidson) Arce.

My grandfather was Gabriel Arce Davidson (Ensenada, BC). His wife was Bertha Amador.

I know my grandfather had at least one brother named Salvador Arce Davidson (March 4,1911-Dec. 28, 2002) who was also born in BC and died in Tijuana. His wife was Monica (Lopez) Arce. Their children are Eleanor Margaret Arce, Gloria Luz Arce, Erik Salvador Arce, and Cesar Gabriel Arce.

My father also mentioned the names Gregorio Arce and Reyes Arce. They may have also been brothers of my grandfather Gabriel. They may have been the relatives we visited in San Telmo many years ago. Many years ago at a family memorial service for my Uncle Mike, my father introduced me to somebody he said was my grandfatherâ€™s sister. She told me I looked just like her brother! Sadly, I have no idea what her name was.

If you have any information about this family I would be very grateful to learn it.

If have have contacts in San Telmo could they please make inquiries for me? I would be hugely grateful.

I would love to learn anything about my grandfather who died so young, and about my relatives who I also never got to know.

I can be reached at the following email address: johnkarce @ centrum.cz.

Thank you very much in advance, and THANK YOU for all of your work keeping the history of our beloved BC alive. Good luck in your future travels and research!

Sincerely,

John Arce in Prague, Czech Republic, Europe

defrag4 - 3-2-2019 at 04:31 PM

thread is a blast from the past!

Just wanted to share another book on Baja genealogy that i recently read, it traces many families in Baja from their origins to their eventual settling in San Diego neighborhoods in the early 50's, quite interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/Familia-Migration-Adaptation-Californ...

Anthropologists, historians, and sociologists will find here a striking challenge to accepted explanations of the northward movement of migrants from Mexico into the United States. Alvarez investigates the life histories of pioneer migrants and their offspring, finding a human dimension to migration which centers on the family. Spanish, American, and English exploits paved the way for exchange between Baja and Alta California. Alvarez shows how cultural stability actually increased as migrants settled in new locations, bringing their common values and memories with them.

[Edited on 3-2-2019 by defrag4]

[Edited on 3-2-2019 by defrag4]

4x4abc - 3-2-2019 at 05:01 PM

https://aviada.blogspot.com/2012/02/guia-familiar-baja-calif...

https://aviada.blogspot.com/2016/02/arbol-genealogico-baja-c...

BajaBlanca - 3-2-2019 at 06:11 PM

2013! Wow, this is indeed a blast from the past!

Nowadays, one of the most extensive photo histories that I know of belong to Juanita (Jane) Ames in San Ignacio. She has albums and more albums that anyone is welcome to look at in her museum.

David K - 3-3-2019 at 09:46 AM

jkarce, I hope Teddi sees this and will get back to you. She and I communicate about Baja history and being an Arce is like gold, as far as Baja families go!

defrag4, thank you for sharing... just when I thought I had enough Baja books... another one pops up!!!

Harald, stand by for an email... this was from 2013, so I had to see what you were asking me about as my memory is not that sharp!

gueribo - 3-3-2019 at 11:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

https://aviada.blogspot.com/2012/02/guia-familiar-baja-calif...

https://aviada.blogspot.com/2016/02/arbol-genealogico-baja-c...

Great blog, Harald. Thanks for sharing.