BajaNomad

The Bristlecone Pine Forest in the Snow

DianaT - 5-10-2013 at 08:31 PM

We have experienced the wonder of the ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest in the White Mountains before, but never in the snow. It snowed earlier this week in the high country, but they did not re-close the road. Thus, since it is only about 25 miles from our home on a couple of roads that go from 4000 feet to 10,000 feet, off we went, even though another storm was threatening.

The snow and threatening weather just make these ancient wonders more awe inspiring and emotional --- they are such survivors. Okay, probably too many pictures here --- we just had such a great time and experience.

First, just a quick look at our town as we begin the climb.



And the road to the forest



And a rare sight, a picture of me! I am at the beginning of the trail.:biggrin:



The new Visitor Center won't open for the season until the end of May, but the rangers had been walking the trail, so it was easy to follow. It was also great to have the trail all to ourselves so our dogs got to enjoy it off leash.



And now for some of the most photographed pines in the snow and rapidly changing weather. These should be familiar trees to most visitors. For us, in this weather they took on new life.










And the dogs for a little perspective



Now for some shapes, textures, and a little imagination.

Slowly melting snow carving the wood



The obstacle course



Bird screaming at the weather



A muddled mind and a wild trail



A prehistoric bird



A bit of Sleepy Hollow



The serpents



The old lady and and the shoe



An old dog still loving the snow



And the other old dog who has fought cancer for two years still demonstrating the pure joy of living.



The shortcut to Bishop is a bit slushy right now --- later



But the view is one that just can't be captured well on film.



And a couple of storm pictures. The views from the White Mountains give such a different perspective of the Sierra Nevada.




And yes, this is finally the last picture. :biggrin:



The Bristlecone Pine Forest is a very special place --- as are all of the White Mountains.

Thank You for looking.



[Edited on 5-11-2013 by DianaT]

Jack Swords - 5-10-2013 at 08:36 PM

Thanks for posting these photos Diane. Getting the urge to get the backpack and boots and head out.

wessongroup - 5-10-2013 at 10:25 PM

Way cool ....... thanks for getting outside, must have been great :):)

Skipjack Joe - 5-10-2013 at 10:57 PM

Thanks, Diane. It looks like a place with great shooting potential and you were there at the right time. I can see why photographers are attracted to this place.

I liked your landscapes the best. Image #2 has a great feeling about it. A sense of brooding.

DianaT - 5-11-2013 at 07:48 AM

Thanks guys ---- I appreciate the comments. Most of these were taken far quicker than I like as I had a dying battery. Yes, we were far up the road when I noticed --- opps, one needs to be prepared! :yes:

We hope to head back up there next week and see if the other main trail is open yet ---- charge battery, yes, charge battery. :biggrin:

durrelllrobert - 5-11-2013 at 08:03 AM

I haven't been up there since I moved away from Ridgecrest in 1978 but it still looks just as awesome. I forgot, how many of the Bristle Cones are still alive?

DianaT - 5-11-2013 at 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
I haven't been up there since I moved away from Ridgecrest in 1978 but it still looks just as awesome. I forgot, how many of the Bristle Cones are still alive?


I don't know, but now I am curious. A few years back, someone burned down the visitor's center, but a beautiful new one has been built.
This year they plan on opening at the end of May. There were a few rangers there who said we could go in now if we wanted, but with the quickly changing weather, we decided to wait until another time. I am sure that information is there.

Even if the pines were not there, the Whites are a great place to be.
:yes:

Ateo - 5-11-2013 at 08:13 AM

Nice bumper sticker. Loved the photos!

Bubba - 5-11-2013 at 08:16 AM

I spent a lot of time in Gold Country but never made it to this area. These are absolutely stunning pictures, thank you for sharing.

DianaT - 5-11-2013 at 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
Nice bumper sticker. Loved the photos!


:biggrin::biggrin:

Bubba, this side of the Sierra Nevada are well worth visiting as are the White Mountains. Thank you for enjoying the photos.

Hook - 5-11-2013 at 09:11 AM

Are you guys living in Rovana now? Or is that shot of your town west of Big Pine or Independence?

Bubba - 5-11-2013 at 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
Nice bumper sticker. Loved the photos!


:biggrin::biggrin:

Bubba, this side of the Sierra Nevada are well worth visiting as are the White Mountains. Thank you for enjoying the photos.


I will make a point of stopping here the next time I head North. Thank you once again for the awesome photos, they made my morning!

TMW - 5-11-2013 at 10:32 AM

Beautiful pictures, beautiful country thanks for sharing.

rts551 - 5-11-2013 at 11:47 AM

Thanks for sharing Diane. Absolutely gorgeous.

DianaT - 5-11-2013 at 05:22 PM

Again, thanks for looking and for the nice comments --- I do appreciate them.

Hook, Big Pine.

Frank - 5-11-2013 at 11:04 PM

I liked them all very much, but #6 was my favorite if I had to choose. So many places to see, adding this to the list....

JohnMcfrog - 5-12-2013 at 06:46 AM

I love the view of the Sierra from the White mountains. I have cross country skied there many times. Went to a slide show/talk by Galen Rowell on a traverse of that mountain range in winter. He said that there was more of a feeling of wildness than the Himalayas. Thanks for sharing such great pictures.

durrelllrobert - 5-12-2013 at 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
Nice bumper sticker. Loved the photos!





Just curious, what do those 2 horizontal stripes signify?

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 08:17 AM

Frank --- thanks and yes, if you have not been there, it should be on the list! I always appreciate knowing someone's favorite. :yes:

John ---- it is so difficult to explain the feeling one has when they have always looked up at the Sierra Nevada, and suddenly they are looking down and across at them. I am in awe every time we are there and this time just watching the storms was great. As you know, they are a wild place to be. Thanks for sharing the thought by Galen Rowell; he is so missed around these parts. Seems like the Whites are a bit of the step-sister to the Sierras.

Went hiking yesterday above South Lake, or what is left of South Lake right now, and maybe will post a couple of pictures later. A while back, Igor said we are having way too much fun living up here, and he is correct! :biggrin:

wessongroup - 5-12-2013 at 08:24 AM

We used to go over Bishop Pass, when young with my Dad, a view, as is Mr Whitney

There used to be an old couple every year, that was trying to make up to the pass, and back down in ONE day, they were in their 70's ... this was in the mid 1950's

They finally made it, in 1958 ..... used to be the talk, at Parchers Camp in the day

http://parchersresort.net/ ..... see they are still there ..... Parchers that is

rts551 - 5-12-2013 at 08:27 AM

A lot of history in that area. Your photos capture its beauty.


We need more pictures of the car! Do you air down the tires when driving through the snow?

[Edited on 5-12-2013 by rts551]

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 08:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
A lot of history in that area. Your photos capture its beauty.


We need more pictures of the car! Do you air down the tires when driving through the snow?

[Edited on 5-12-2013 by rts551]


Hey, it is a Subaru and goes anywhere as is. :lol: Actually, it has a gauge that lets one know if the air pressure is too low or uneven and sometimes when we drive up in elevation and when it is REAL cold, the gauge comes on. It is a rather picky system that we won't mess with. It loves sloppy, slushy, soft and slippery stuff. Now we just want one of those vehicles you have for some roads where we need more clearance.

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 08:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
We used to go over Bishop Pass, when young with my Dad, a view, as is Mr Whitney

There used to be an old couple every year, that was trying to make up to the pass, and back down in ONE day, they were in their 70's ... this was in the mid 1950's

They finally made it, in 1958 ..... used to be the talk, at Parchers Camp in the day

http://parchersresort.net/ ..... see they are still there ..... Parchers that is


Parchers is definitely still there but not completely open for the season yet. They sit in such a beautiful spot on the creek that would be even more beautiful if so much of that water was not in a tube!

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Just curious, what do those 2 horizontal stripes signify?


Equality and human rights for all.

Mexitron - 5-12-2013 at 11:18 AM

Really nice Diane...doing a Sierra trip in June and hoping to follow your footsteps into the Whites. Must be a lovely place to live in Big Pine.

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Really nice Diane...doing a Sierra trip in June and hoping to follow your footsteps into the Whites. Must be a lovely place to live in Big Pine.


Thanks, and yes we are really enjoying being here. :yes:

Vince - 5-12-2013 at 02:41 PM

Love those photos! I climbed Mt. Whitney Labor Day, 1955 at night with a full moon illuminating us. We summited and watched the sunrise from the then top of the United States (Alaska and Hawaii were territories). That was a real treat but I wish Galen Rowell had been there to take some once in a lifetime photos. I would like to go back to the White Mts. and look for Methuselah. Nice work.

Sierra Adventure

bajaguy - 5-12-2013 at 03:37 PM

If you are into backcountry or wilderness backpacking/exploring in the Sierras, this is an interesting read:

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Flight-Mystery-Frozen-Airmen/dp/...

There are still two WWII airmen out there in/on Mendel Glacier just north of Mt Darwin.

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Vince
Love those photos! I climbed Mt. Whitney Labor Day, 1955 at night with a full moon illuminating us. We summited and watched the sunrise from the then top of the United States (Alaska and Hawaii were territories). That was a real treat but I wish Galen Rowell had been there to take some once in a lifetime photos. I would like to go back to the White Mts. and look for Methuselah. Nice work.


It gives me chills to think about being on the top of Whitney as you describe! Wow. Next week, maybe, we are headed back up to look for Methuselah, I hope.



Bajaguy --- I checked out that book and I am going to buy it! It sounds really interesting. THANKS And since you are in the area and know how bad the snow pack is this year, I am posting a picture of South Lake we took yesterday while hiking up there--- It is so low -- and then there is that awful tube filled with water headed down to Los Angeles so all those lawns can be nice and green.



Did not take a picture from the dam --- there is no water near the dam!

sad, sad, sad

bajaguy - 5-12-2013 at 06:03 PM

Lack of moisture, snow and water.

Water grabs are going on all over the west. Las Vegas is attempting to grab water from farms and ranches in Lincoln, White Pine and Elko counties in Nevada, and also some areas of western Utah.........all so people can have grass to mow at the cost of food to eat.

Ol' man Mulholland sure had a thing for other peoples water.......lots of history, good and bad in the Owens Valley

As the comic Sam Kinison said, "It's a F*^!#$& desert!!!"

Another local regional book you might like is the Last Season:

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Season-P-S-Eric-Blehm/dp/00605830...

If you like the "Last Flight", let me know. I have info on several aircraft crash sites in your area that you might like to research and explore.

J.P. - 5-12-2013 at 06:45 PM

I lived on the other side up off Ca.State route 88 and 49 for several years. The closest thing to it in this world is San Pedro Marta

DianaT - 5-12-2013 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Lack of moisture, snow and water.

Water grabs are going on all over the west. Las Vegas is attempting to grab water from farms and ranches in Lincoln, White Pine and Elko counties in Nevada, and also some areas of western Utah.........all so people can have grass to mow at the cost of food to eat.

Ol' man Mulholland sure had a thing for other peoples water.......lots of history, good and bad in the Owens Valley

As the comic Sam Kinison said, "It's a F*^!#$& desert!!!"

Another local regional book you might like is the Last Season:

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Season-P-S-Eric-Blehm/dp/00605830...

If you like the "Last Flight", let me know. I have info on several aircraft crash sites in your area that you might like to research and explore.


Thanks, I will read both of them. Since we moved here, I read Cadillac Desert again ---- it is a desert and water all over the west is King. I guess lawns are more important than food and grazing land.

Here, LADWP has stopped the dust abatement program on the lake and all the water they were using for that is going into the tube. They also want more of the ground water this year! LA is not going to get as much water this year from the Feather River or the Colorado, so they are grabbing. When the grandaughter of Mulholland was up here this year to celebrate an anniversary, I guess she wondered why she was not greeted with open arms by everyone!

Thanks for the book tips and I will let you know! Meantime, this is a beautiful place to be. :biggrin:

bajaguy - 5-12-2013 at 07:20 PM

Oh, and don't forget the Alabama Hills!!!

tripledigitken - 5-12-2013 at 07:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Oh, and don't forget the Alabama Hills!!!


.....and Saline Valley!!!

Saline Valley

bajaguy - 5-12-2013 at 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Oh, and don't forget the Alabama Hills!!!


.....and Saline Valley!!!





http://www.av.qnet.com/~carcomm/wreck29.htm

DianaT - 5-14-2013 at 08:29 AM

Getting too hot right now for Saline Valley or the Alabama Hills --- we were there recently, however.

And for anyone in that area and if you are really hungry, eat at the Alabama Hills Cafe in Lone Pine ---- fresh baked breads and HUGE portions. It is a very good local place.

rts551 - 5-14-2013 at 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Getting too hot right now for Saline Valley or the Alabama Hills --- we were there recently, however.

And for anyone in that area and if you are really hungry, eat at the Alabama Hills Cafe in Lone Pine ---- fresh baked breads and HUGE portions. It is a very good local place.



huge portions.... and baked breads...hmmmmm. there goes the diet.

tripledigitken - 5-14-2013 at 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Getting too hot right now for Saline Valley or the Alabama Hills --- we were there recently, however.



Your were at both locations or just Alabama Hills? Would like a road report for Saline Valley.

Ken

DianaT - 5-14-2013 at 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Getting too hot right now for Saline Valley or the Alabama Hills --- we were there recently, however.



Your were at both locations or just Alabama Hills? Would like a road report for Saline Valley.

Ken


Sorry for being not clear. The last time we headed down the Saline Valley road was when we went to the Dunes a few weeks ago -- so we turned off and did not follow it all the way. Last time we went further was probably more than a year ago, so that would not be very current. :biggrin:

Mexitron - 5-14-2013 at 02:12 PM

Well, there's one less lawn to water in Irvine---we just installed artificial turf to replace an existing lawn. Happening quite a bit in these parts.

Speaking of which, lest we blame all water woes on L.A., California (Central Valley) is only second to Arkansas in rice production in the U.S. Rice?

DianaT - 5-14-2013 at 03:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Well, there's one less lawn to water in Irvine---we just installed artificial turf to replace an existing lawn. Happening quite a bit in these parts.

Speaking of which, lest we blame all water woes on L.A., California (Central Valley) is only second to Arkansas in rice production in the U.S. Rice?


California Central Valley also grows A LOT of cotton which requires lots of water. But none of the water from these watersheds to to the Central Valley--- all to Los Angeles. I don't think you in Orange county get any of this water. :-)


Just something that might interest you. One of the former owners of our home is a botanist with the Forest Service and we have some very interesting plants popping up-- native plants from the area. We are afraid to pull anything that might look like a weed until we are sure it is not a beautiful native flower or plant. I do need to get a good native plant book for identifications. Everyday, we find another new plant or flower.

Since we want more native plants, we discovered

The Bristlecone Chapter of the Native Plant Society

and once a year, they have a plant sale--- all native plants from the area that they have started from seeds or cuttings. They sell them in the fall so that they can establish good root systems before the summer heat. We are really looking forward to the sell!

Today we went for a short hike in the lower Whites and then popped across the valley and up Baker Creek and there are some monster fields of white wildflowers --- it is the time, I just need to be able to identify something other than lupine!

Enjoy getting rid of any lawnmower you may have. :biggrin:

Opps, on edit, it sounds like it was not your yard, but you were the installer? Doesn't matter, one less lawn is a good thing. :yes:

[Edited on 5-14-2013 by DianaT]

Mexitron - 5-14-2013 at 09:48 PM

That would be a very interesting plant sale to go to! A lot of unique species to that high desert/Eastern Sierra ecosystem. The species I'm most interested in is Dudleya---the native succulents---I know there are some growing at high elevation in the Sierras and over in the Panamints but I don't know about the backside of the Sierra or the Whites---let me know if you see any!

JohnMcfrog - 5-15-2013 at 08:48 PM

Done Whitney 8 times and still look forward to another experience. Have always liked the climb from Guitar Lake rather than the beaten path from the east side. Here was a trip my brother invited me on. Love the Sierra's, no matter how or where.
Fast forward for sunrise on the ridge. (14:00)

Juanito

https://vimeo.com/5747807

[Edited on 5-16-2013 by JohnMcfrog]

Skipjack Joe - 5-16-2013 at 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Well, there's one less lawn to water in Irvine---we just installed artificial turf to replace an existing lawn. Happening quite a bit in these parts.

Speaking of which, lest we blame all water woes on L.A., California (Central Valley) is only second to Arkansas in rice production in the U.S. Rice?


I have to admit that I am baffled by this choice of farming. I first noticed it along hwy 5 driving north to shasta. Fields that have been completely submerged in water to grow rice. Why in the name of allah would you choose to grow such a crop in a water starved state like California? I must be missing something. The evaporation rate must be enormous in those fields. How can you make a profit given the price of rice.

As you drive onward you will see these angry signs over the lack of water being provided by the regulators. Their claim is that America's very bread basket is being ruined by politicians and environmentalists. But when you see how the water was being used it's difficult to be sympathetic to their complaints.

The only thing I could find to explain all this is that apparently California has a long history of growing rice. Probably back to the 19th century when Chinese labor was brought to the state. And so, it becomes a traditional farm crop with all of the emotional ties. Sort of like the continued gillnetting the cortez after every scrap of fish has been harvested.

DianaT - 5-16-2013 at 11:56 AM

Igor,
You made me curious so I just started to look quickly for the history of rice cultivation in California. This is one thing I cam across and it is obviously slanted in favor of the cultivation of rice.

http://www.menurice.com/uploadedFiles/Recipes_and_Culinary_C...

I am sure there has to be articles that are negative --- think I will look at more later.

I don't know if they still burn the fields, but when we were in that area, the burning of the fields was rather nasty.

Oh, one of the things the rice industry will argue is a positive is that the fields create wetlands for migratory birds --- more to check out.

One thing for sure, there will continue to be water battles in the west!

Mexitron - 5-16-2013 at 12:14 PM

So hydraulic mining in the gold rush era was good for the miners but bad for SF Bay as it filled in 60 percent of it with silt. But the silt also created the central delta so was good for the rice farmers but bad for the fish since they're sucking all the water out...oh but wait the rice fields are good for the bird populations but bad for the air pollution...oh my, oh my, silly world.:lol:

Skipjack Joe - 5-16-2013 at 12:37 PM

Thanks for the link Diane.

An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:

China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam

What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall. We, on the other hand, are damning up the Sierras to provide the water to flood these fields.

They flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except that they're continuously being resupplied with water.

Interestingly enough the brochure does not mention water requirements or consumption.

IMO the Central Valley is really an incredible farming area. All done with very little rainfall. But to stay that way I think we need to use irrigation methods that use water sparingly, just enough for the needs of the plants. Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks.

DianaT - 5-16-2013 at 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
So hydraulic mining in the gold rush era was good for the miners but bad for SF Bay as it filled in 60 percent of it with silt. But the silt also created the central delta so was good for the rice farmers but bad for the fish since they're sucking all the water out...oh but wait the rice fields are good for the bird populations but bad for the air pollution...oh my, oh my, silly world.:lol:


Oh yes, it is all so easy to follow and all so positive in favor of the rice people. :biggrin::biggrin:

And to top everything off, the gold rush was at first really bad for the city of San Francisco. The city was almost emptied of population for a while! They all left with gold fever and got there before it became an international gold rush!

The scars in the gold areas from the hydraulic mining are incredible and really, really ugly --- they just tore many of those mountains apart.

Rice

J.P. - 5-16-2013 at 01:14 PM

When I lived in the Sacramento area I hauled Rice on a weekly basics to the greater Los Angeles Area there are many rice brokers in that area. California was #2 in the Rice producing of the U.S. although they ship a lot of rice to other countries they import about the same amount there's many variety's of rice

Barry A. - 5-16-2013 at 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.

An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:

China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam

What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall.

In CA they flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks.


Yep, the "Markets" usually get things right, eventually, if left alone with no subsidies or "special help" for targeted enterprises by Govt...

(I took the liberty of editing SkipJack's post in my "quote" above-------please go back to the original post for an accurate original post.)

Barry

wessongroup - 5-16-2013 at 01:28 PM

Water usage and the Owens Valley ..... now there is a topic

And if growers could put ALL "rice and cotton" on "drip" they would ........ along with many other crops .... pumping costs used to be horrific and that is many moons ago

Small scale growers may be able to make it work, when ya get into sections and sections ..... gets a bit harder

DianaT - 5-16-2013 at 08:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.

An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:

China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam

What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall. We, on the other hand, are damning up the Sierras to provide the water to flood these fields.

They flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except that they're continuously being resupplied with water.

Interestingly enough the brochure does not mention water requirements or consumption.

IMO the Central Valley is really an incredible farming area. All done with very little rainfall. But to stay that way I think we need to use irrigation methods that use water sparingly, just enough for the needs of the plants. Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks.


You know Igor, it is such a complicated problem for which the answers are never simple. Who knows, if Los Angeles had not taken the water from here, maybe there would be rice farms here. And there are those who argue that rice production uses less resources that the raising of cattle and while I eat more vegetarian all the time, I still enjoy a good beef steak.

I think the only possible absolute is that water is king/queen.

Speaking of dams in the Sierras, we drove up to what is left of Lake Sabrina today --- such a sad sight and to think, the LADWP wants even more water in this year of such a major low snow pack. What is left of the lake is not any where near the dam and the boat launching area is, well you can see. I apologize for the fuzzy picture, I took it in a hurry as it was raining and my camera was getting wet.



I just don't know, but this guy appears to just being enjoying his life fishing at Intake 2. Who knows what he thinks about the water situation, but he appears to be enjoying his afternoon.



And for me, there is always something so calming and renewing as a grove of Aspen Trees. Right now there are some that have all their leaves, some that are just begining and some like these who are just showing their grand beauty.


Aspens just make me temporarily forget a lot of reality, except they and their habitat are so worth preserving!

Aspen trees speak

bajaguy - 5-16-2013 at 08:58 PM

Here is another book for the collection:

http://tinyurl.com/crwjxs9

DianaT - 5-16-2013 at 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Here is another book for the collection:

http://tinyurl.com/crwjxs9


You are going to keep me in reading material for quite some time!

Thanks

Skipjack Joe - 5-16-2013 at 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.

An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:

China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam

What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall.

In CA they flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks.


Yep, the "Markets" usually get things right, eventually, if left alone with no subsidies or "special help" for targeted enterprises by Govt...



What "gets things right" is when the right thing is done at a practical cost. When things should be done but are costly there is usual no agreement to proceed. Conversely, practical ventures that are destructive, like strip mining, do not move forward despite the perceived gain in wealth.

The "Markets" do not control the affairs of the state. People do.

Skipjack Joe - 5-16-2013 at 11:31 PM

Diane,

A lot of people like to see the aspens in the fall. BTW, are you sure they're aspens and not alders?

One of the greatest experiences in the Sierras is to be in a grove of aspens when there is a mild breeze. This usually occurs in the mornings. If you lay under them, as I often did, and look skyward them will shimmer from side to side like the scales of a fish. This is usually accompanied by a soft rustling sound. It's mesmerizing, and, as you say, quite peaceful. Interestingly enough, it's a moment whose magic can't be captured in photography because it involves movement (unlike ripples on water whose movement can be conveyed).

Anyway, I tried to figure out once why these leaves quake while others don't. Perhaps the shape of the leaf has something to do with it but it seemed to me it was the narrowness of the leaf vein that connected it to the stem that allowed it to twist back and forth like that. There's also the question as to what benefit this quaking provides this tree. Who knows. Seed dispersal? Unlikely.

On the other hand, who cares? Just accept the gift and enjoy.

DianaT - 5-17-2013 at 06:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Diane,

A lot of people like to see the aspens in the fall. BTW, are you sure they're aspens and not alders?

One of the greatest experiences in the Sierras is to be in a grove of aspens when there is a mild breeze. This usually occurs in the mornings. If you lay under them, as I often did, and look skyward them will shimmer from side to side like the scales of a fish. This is usually accompanied by a soft rustling sound. It's mesmerizing, and, as you say, quite peaceful. Interestingly enough, it's a moment whose magic can't be captured in photography because it involves movement (unlike ripples on water whose movement can be conveyed).

Anyway, I tried to figure out once why these leaves quake while others don't. Perhaps the shape of the leaf has something to do with it but it seemed to me it was the narrowness of the leaf vein that connected it to the stem that allowed it to twist back and forth like that. There's also the question as to what benefit this quaking provides this tree. Who knows. Seed dispersal? Unlikely.

On the other hand, who cares? Just accept the gift and enjoy.


I have never questioned why the quaking aspens quake as they do, I have just always enjoyed them as you so well describe, the movement, and the quieting subtle noise. And yes, while the amazing fall colors can be captured, their special movement cannot, or at least I have never seen a photo that captures that special feeling.

Now, I THINK these are aspens just coming out especially since we were at such a high elevation. However, I certainly have been incorrect in plant identification before. :biggrin:

[Edited on 5-17-2013 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 5-17-2013 at 08:28 AM

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Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
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Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.

An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:

China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam

What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall.

In CA they flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks.


Yep, the "Markets" usually get things right, eventually, if left alone with no subsidies or "special help" for targeted enterprises by Govt...



What "gets things right" is when the right thing is done at a practical cost. When things should be done but are costly there is usual no agreement to proceed. Conversely, practical ventures that are destructive, like strip mining, do not move forward despite the perceived gain in wealth.

The "Markets" do not control the affairs of the state. People do.


Mostly right, SkipJack, and it is actually what I said (or meant, anyway). The "Market" represents "people" and their perceptions and their belief in what works and what doesn't. Long-term the Market is almost always correct----short-term often not. Distort it with Govt. intrusion and you mostly get confusion and indecision.

"strip mining" is still used in many places around the world, and is highly efficient in certain applications with little negative environmental impact---------it's all mostly a tradeoff, normally.

Barry

wessongroup - 5-17-2013 at 10:37 AM

Speaking of CA Rice:

"Rice cultivation began in California during the California Gold Rush, when an estimated 40,000 Chinese laborers immigrated to the state and grew small amounts of the grain for their own consumption. However, commercial production began only in 1912 in the town of Richvale in Butte County.[55] By 2006, California produced the second largest rice crop in the United States,[56] after Arkansas, with production concentrated in six counties north of Sacramento.[57] Unlike the Mississippi Delta region, California's production is dominated by short- and medium-grain japonica varieties, including cultivars developed for the local climate such as Calrose, which makes up as much as 85% of the state's crop.[58]"

Additionally the growing region in the central has changed quite a bit over the past 150 years ......... used to be a "swamp" pretty much, think "Tule Fog" ....... was a drainage basin for the Sierra Nevada mountain rage ...... which borders the east side of the valley

http://www.calrice.org/pdf/RICEMAP_08.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_fog

that snow pack above Lake Sabrina, is pitiful ... worst I've ever seen

[Edited on 5-17-2013 by wessongroup]