BajaNomad

Concrete insulated foam blocks being made baja SUR

laventana - 6-3-2013 at 10:21 PM

we have a true win win situation.

A friend of mine has invested $$$ in buying the machines for making the concrete foam blocks in LaPaz. These are the same ones that have been selling in the USA for years. Basically a wall will have a R23 with loading about R29.

These are also very strong, on his website the only standing home after a tornado was a EF Block home. Also a fire retardant, firehouses are built with it.

He claims that it increases the cost of building by about USD$4,000.00 per 1000 sq feet. And that any builder can adapt because it is just a block. With the cost of electricity here in Mexico if you are here year round it will pay off in 3-5 years. thus cutting down on baja energy demand and producing electricity.

Now the second win is he uses the foam that is in packaging from like toasters or TVs. This is one of the worst materials to go into a landfill, they do not break down. Generally they blow off and end up in the water. So a major win he will take all your packing foam, and has been collecting it already.

Made in baja so keeping jobs and money local too. Any normal finish interior or exterior, can be high end or budget.

Mention to your friends who might be building to at least take a look. The word needs to get out...

www.efblockmx.info





here is a house going up in LaVentana





one in cabo





[Edited on 6-4-2013 by laventana]

BajaBlanca - 6-4-2013 at 08:24 AM

Thanks for sharing.

Here's a good how-to video for those blocks

durrelllrobert - 6-4-2013 at 11:33 AM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1A0RujbDE‎

CortezBlue - 6-6-2013 at 10:43 AM

After reading this and because I live in Phoenix, AZ, where the owner and developer of the product lives, I took a visit to his local operations.

Pretty "cool" stuff. I am getting read to put an add on Casita at my house in SF and will consider using this material.

monoloco - 6-6-2013 at 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1A0RujbDE‎
I believe that the blocks that the OP is referring to are somewhat different than the ones in the video.

laventana - 6-6-2013 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1A0RujbDE‎
I believe that the blocks that the OP is referring to are somewhat different than the ones in the video.
you are correct, the video ones are not made in baja. I like the product in the video also.... There are many similar to that one on the market...

So they do not contribute to the local job structure/economy. Second, they do not use recycled material.
So they do not help with our landfills, litter and ocean/seas.

Bob and Susan - 6-6-2013 at 02:00 PM

anyone interested in this foam block should look at a house built two or three years ago...

it does insulate but also cracks because it "flexes"

it is great for insulation the block does not transfer heat

monoloco - 6-6-2013 at 05:01 PM

My electrician also told me there was problems with the pulido finish cracking with this material. Maybe laventana could add a comment on this ?

laventana - 6-6-2013 at 06:01 PM

hmmm, what can I say. I will ask my friend for more details but here are my observations as a Engineer and geek watching people build for 14 years of still watching and myself building many years ago. . I used W-panel myself 10 years ago. Very happy with it. Plus, I used some products for making my concrete a vapor barrier. No electrician in my area had a clue to W-panel, (well they still do not). So of course I did the electrical myself as well as plumbing. This is a fishing village of 100 years or more turn to construction trade in 15 years. So no pros to tech journeyman the art. It is a school of absolutely hard knocks for those who build specially in the beginning.. What I have seen done is unreal and still see it. In my area from what I had seen till the windsurfing community arrived in mass 20 years ago the standard was 3rd grade education. Maybe the town had 1-3 people go on to college a year. Way different now. But to my knowledge there is no trade school in baja sur.

So here are some issues. First this construction is way stronger than any block home ever built in baja from the engineering structural standpoint. This internal grid structure what we call egg crating is used in making things stronger all the time in designs of products. That is the same they use for the ceiling with the foam blocks grid.

Now as a hobby I as a geek/Engineer when walking will check out the progress of many construction projects going on, walked on one two days ago. And I can tell you I have seen some awful foundations made, the one I went onto yesterday is the most massive one I have ever seen. And a person who has not seen a lot of these would be clueless. So maybe the person who made the ones you are talking about did not build correctly? Here are a few observations on the “normal” block builds” maybe the contractor was not in the know of proper foundation design.. That would be my guess after seeing how many make them. There are other potentials but not nearly as likely… I could not imagine a contractor ever shorting anyone in the proper mix of concrete in the hollows of the product... Or not putting in the rebar in every layer? I see so many homes that are made with concrete block with cracks all over because of poor foundations. I can tell you who to use in my area…

The owner of the EF Block down here was involved in construction of these types of blocks for many years as a construction worker in the USA 20 years ago. In fact he literally on the side built his own house with it in the USA 15 years ago. One would have to ask why would a person who was actually building them in the USA 20 years ago put several hundred thousand dollars setting up a factory into a product that is inherent to structural defects.

So yes do check out your contractors homes they have built... or just go to an active site and ask him for pictures of that specific sites foundation. If you do not have the where with all to know a good foundation from a hole in the ground, find a friend that does. Also another tip, if you are going to be absent from the build, have them send you pictures before and after the foundation is poured. and pictures of every layer putting in the rebar. Pictures are a great alternative way to build absentee.

Next if you want to get me going about wiring, plumbing and AC systems... I have gone into construction sites that they have stink vents but they blocked them off in the walls on the different floors because they really do not know what they are for. I have yet to see a AC installer use a vacuum pump when hooking up a AC system. This is a huge no no.... so yes, I bought a vacuum pump and do my own AC systems too.

Also Mike the owner down here is fluent in Spanish and can explain to the electrician how to do it properly. A product type that has been out for 30 some years , well I am sure all the homes have wiring it is just like my w-panel they were in a world of the unknown. Now, I am not saying it is as easy as chipping out block; I just have not done it. I will ask.



[Edited on 6-7-2013 by laventana]

monoloco - 6-6-2013 at 06:23 PM

laventana, it is altogether possible that my electrician doesn't know what he's talking about. I just wondered if you had heard of any problems with superficial cracks in the finish. A friend of mine and I are going to try and make it over on Saturday to talk to Mike about this system. Thanks for the info, it seems like a good building system to me.

Bob and Susan - 6-6-2013 at 06:29 PM

thats exactly what to look for...small spider cracks in the stucco

and later the stucco will fall off...maybe

you actually need to use chicken wire to avoid this like stick houses use

the foam block is a great insulation

as for stronger...maybe not...cement houses have been around along time and thru a lot of shaking

Mexitron - 6-6-2013 at 07:17 PM

The strofoam composites flex much better in an earthquake than standard cement block, mainly due to the egg-crate rebar infrastructure. Have read lots of good things about their strength. These EF blocks look a lot like Rastra block in AZ---is that the parent company?

CortezBlue - 6-7-2013 at 02:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
anyone interested in this foam block should look at a house built two or three years ago...

it does insulate but also cracks because it "flexes"

it is great for insulation the block does not transfer heat


That only happens if the stucco is less than 3/8 thick

With the way these are grouted there is less flex than in 2x6 construction.

CortezBlue - 6-7-2013 at 02:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
The strofoam composites flex much better in an earthquake than standard cement block, mainly due to the egg-crate rebar infrastructure. Have read lots of good things about their strength. These EF blocks look a lot like Rastra block in AZ---is that the parent company?



No, but when I met with the owner earlier this week in Tempe, AZ, he and I had some friends in common. I looked seriously at Rastra when I built my house and he was the representative. He developed this on his own after learning some of the short comings of the products he was reping.

Bob and Susan - 6-7-2013 at 05:00 AM

a home is a permanent structure...

I would look at a 2 to 3 year old unit made with this stuff to see if its actually worth the added cost before I used it

if it is...then go for it

talk about strength... is just that talk...
no one has ever showed me any facts about strength....but...
those triumph plastic boats ARE tough

laventana - 6-7-2013 at 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CortezBlue
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
The strofoam composites flex much better in an earthquake than standard cement block, mainly due to the egg-crate rebar infrastructure. Have read lots of good things about their strength. These EF blocks look a lot like Rastra block in AZ---is that the parent company?



No, but when I met with the owner earlier this week in Tempe, AZ, he and I had some friends in common. I looked seriously at Rastra when I built my house and he was the representative. He developed this on his own after learning some of the short comings of the products he was reping.


Mike was building with Rastra Block 15-20 years ago.

Strength, well ok someone says that the rebar egg crating is not as strong as a cinder block home. Do people understand the Mexican cinder block are not the structural part of a home. If you built your home out of Mexican cinder-block and did not put in the structural concrete supports (verticals and horizontals) your house would be structurally unsafe. That you would not get it to even get a building permit.

So we have a disagreement here that may never be settled. I will put my Engineering degree and again go out on a linb and can say that egg crating with this product is way stronger than the Mexican cinder block that is done here in baja. I would even be willing to bet some significant money.

Here is my proof of just how strong it is. A alabama tornado hits and the only house standing is a EF block home. I think the jury can decide is I win the bet.
tornado



next misguided theory being presented, you do not need chicken wire with this product. It is made with concrete that binds to the foam so that when the surface plaster is applied it will bind. Yes in others all foam like the one someone posted above you do typically use chicken wire. There are many products like the one in the video on the market that require that but they are also not made in baja and are also not using recycled foam as another benefit to our ecosystem.

Now for the doubters, think about this adhesion issue. I am sure even up in mulege they make roofs with the 3 foot by three foot squares of foam that are about 7-12 inches thick for sound and insulation in egg crating rebar fashion. I have not seen a house down here made without this in years. Well have you ever seen them defy the laws of physics when they plaster that foam ceiling without chicken wire on the ceiling? And those are just foam, these EF blocks have the concrete in them already and do not have to defy/fight the ultimate lays of gravity, the proper layer is also much thinker on a wall as noted by other poster.

So you are saying every homes ceiling being built outside of Muluge is structurally deficient in the last 10 years? that they are all structurally deficient. I have no fear of walking in people homes or businesses and the ceiling falling on me.

And yes he gives good advice like I suggested look at what your contractor has done, and as he says look at homes that are older.

As far as costs the estimate is roughly $4,000.00 more per 1000 sq feet. I am helping someone right now who is on the DAC rate which is even over 30 cents a kWh. They zone AC by which room they are in. This is costing them for a 2,400 sq foot home including garage, so we would not use for garage about 2000 sq foot home about $5000 a year for electricity. I pay about $800.00 a year and also zone cool and have similar appliance count of pumps, refrigerators. I have R12 walls and R40 roof with w-panel.

So he is paying an extra $4,000.00 a year to live in what they consider frugal comfort because they hit the DAC rate. They do not cool the entire house just the rooms they are in. If they were not hitting the DAC rate their bills would be about half.

So in 2-3 years this would pay the additional cost of $8,000.00 to have built with this foam block. And they could cool off the entire house for payback in 3-4 years.



[Edited on 6-7-2013 by laventana]

monoloco - 6-7-2013 at 08:16 AM

This has nothing to do with the product we are discussing, but I would like to note that I have caseton in my ceilings and all the ones that were plastered with a concrete type of plaster developed fine cracking to one degree or another, while ones finished with yeso have remained crack free. Just something to think about when using caseton in a roof system.

bledito - 7-6-2013 at 03:37 PM

would adding latex to the mix help give it resiliance to minor flexing ?

CortezBlue - 7-8-2013 at 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
a home is a permanent structure...

I would look at a 2 to 3 year old unit made with this stuff to see if its actually worth the added cost before I used it

if it is...then go for it

talk about strength... is just that talk...
no one has ever showed me any facts about strength....but...
those triumph plastic boats ARE tough


This product and products like it have been around for at least 13 years. When I built my home in Phoenix in 1999 I looked serious at Rastra, the exact same type of product.

Don't forget that this product is tied vertically and horizontally with rebar and is grouted solid every 12 to 16 inches.

My neighbor in San Felipe used Rastra about 8 years ago and it has no noticeable cracking or flaking or falling of stucco.

Bob and Susan - 7-8-2013 at 01:36 PM

Quote:
When I built my home in Phoenix in 1999 I looked serious at Rastra, the exact same type of product.

My neighbor in San Felipe used Rastra about 8 years ago and it has no noticeable cracking or flaking or falling of stucco.


but you choose NOT to use it...

it does an excellent job of insulating...
the way its installed will see if the walls stand up over time
but the stucco may crack from "flexing"
(wind...earth movement)
it's flexible

people need to look at structures that are made of this stuff for the added cost

if its good for their lifestyle then use it:light::light:

Mexitron - 7-8-2013 at 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CortezBlue
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
a home is a permanent structure...

I would look at a 2 to 3 year old unit made with this stuff to see if its actually worth the added cost before I used it

if it is...then go for it

talk about strength... is just that talk...
no one has ever showed me any facts about strength....but...
those triumph plastic boats ARE tough


This product and products like it have been around for at least 13 years. When I built my home in Phoenix in 1999 I looked serious at Rastra, the exact same type of product.

Don't forget that this product is tied vertically and horizontally with rebar and is grouted solid every 12 to 16 inches.

My neighbor in San Felipe used Rastra about 8 years ago and it has no noticeable cracking or flaking or falling of stucco.


If memory serves, I recall that the RASTRA system also has diagonal rebar---the insides of the block are curved to allow this extra support bar.

laventana - 7-8-2013 at 03:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Quote:
When I built my home in Phoenix in 1999 I looked serious at Rastra, the exact same type of product.

My neighbor in San Felipe used Rastra about 8 years ago and it has no noticeable cracking or flaking or falling of stucco.


but you choose NOT to use it...

it does an excellent job of insulating...
the way its installed will see if the walls stand up over time
but the stucco may crack from "flexing"
(wind...earth movement)
it's flexible

people need to look at structures that are made of this stuff for the added cost

if its good for their lifestyle then use it:light::light:
out of curiosity, even been to vegas to see how they make homes, townhomes and condos? I would bet most in the desert SW are made this way. They use stick frames with insulation with chicken wire and stucco, other than the upper end this is what I have seen exclusively. Are you inferring stick frames are more ridged than concrete rebar with egg crating?

Regarding cost... In my very small town there are 3 finished here and 4 or more going up right now, so the cost appears to be as proposed or they would not be building with it. The size range in my town are 1200 sq ft to one 5000 sq foot mansion.

And again I bet the resale of any of these will significantly beat a comparable one.

also I built a foam stand alone bedroom I talked about 8 years ago with the W-panel foam. I do not have a core material it is foam with wire. The wire is stuccoes from both sides. I have about R12 on my walls. and my ceiling I used w-panel and put foam blocks in the egg crating way for about an R30 effect. I also used vegas lowes windows that are vinyl double panel e glass that reflect infrared and UV A and B. These are about 1/3 to half the price of the windows down here that are not reflective or insulated. It is about 300sq feet. I have several other bedrooms that are stand alone, built with just block.

For my insulated with R12 which is half of the EF block insulating factor I can tell you to cool that room, I put in a 7000 BTU mini split and it takes me 10kWh a night to cool it. I wake up in the morning and my lips are chapped.

Another room where just the roof is insulated I have a 8000 BTU window unit and it takes about 20kWh a night and when I wake up there is still humidity and it never gets real cool. I have now added a shade covering to the west wall to see if this will help. (the one with full insulation is in direct sunlight from sunup to sun down.)

And I have another where it is just block and no roof insulation, and the 8000 BTU window can not do the job of cooling well and will use about 30kWh per night.

Those are real close numbers, probably good to do cost saving analysis.

So according to your flexing concept the w-panel would be the least ridged because it is just foam with stucco. Well I have yet to have any cracks in my stucco walls in 8 or more years.

Now it is not the same product as EF block and I do believe W-panel is stronger than concrete blocks. These two have been tested to cat 2 hurricane winds with no damage.

laventana - 7-8-2013 at 03:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
Quote:
When I built my home in Phoenix in 1999 I looked serious at Rastra, the exact same type of product.

My neighbor in San Felipe used Rastra about 8 years ago and it has no noticeable cracking or flaking or falling of stucco.


but you choose NOT to use it...

it does an excellent job of insulating...
the way its installed will see if the walls stand up over time
but the stucco may crack from "flexing"
(wind...earth movement)
it's flexible

people need to look at structures that are made of this stuff for the added cost

if its good for their lifestyle then use it:light::light:
out of curiosity, even been to vegas to see how they make homes, townhomes and condos? I would bet most in the desert SW are made this way. They use stick frames with insulation with chicken wire and stucco, other than the upper end this is what I have seen exclusively. Are you inferring stick frames are more ridged than concrete rebar with egg crating?

Regarding cost... In my very small town there are 3 finished here and 4 or more going up right now, so the cost appears to be as proposed or they would not be building with it. The size range in my town are 1200 sq ft to one 5000 sq foot mansion.

And again I bet the resale of any of these will significantly beat a comparable one.

I built a foam stand alone bedroom I talked about 8 years ago with the W-panel foam. I do not have a core material it is foam with wire. The wire is stuccoed from both sides. I have about R12 on my walls. and my ceiling I used w-panel and put foam blocks in the egg crating way for about an R30 effect. I also used vegas lowes windows that are vinyl double panel e glass that reflect infrared and UV A and B. These are about 1/3 to half the price of the windows down here that are not reflective or insulated. It is about 300sq feet. I have several other bedrooms that are stand alone, built with just block.

For my insulated with R12 which is half of the EF block insulating factor I can tell you to cool that room, I put in a 7000 BTU mini split and it takes me 10kWh a night to cool it. I wake up in the morning and my lips are chapped.

Another room where just the roof is insulated I have a 8000 BTU window unit and it takes about 20kWh a night and when I wake up there is still humidity and it never gets real cool. I have now added a shade covering to the west wall to see if this will help. (the one with full insulation is in direct sunlight from sunup to sun down.)

And I have another where it is just block and no roof insulation, and the 8000 BTU window can not do the job of cooling well and will use about 30kWh per night.

Those are real close numbers, probably good to do cost saving analysis.

So according to your flexing concept the w-panel would be the least ridged because it is just foam with stucco. Well I have yet to have any cracks in my stucco walls in 8 or more years.

Now it is not the same product as EF block and I do believe W-panel is stronger than concrete blocks. These two have been tested to cat 2 hurricane winds with no damage.

bledito - 7-8-2013 at 03:35 PM

the substrate the stucco is being attached to is like a scratch surface coat of stucco to begin with, looks like adherance should'nt be an issue. a good seal coat and painting should allow the stucco to hold up well by sealing out elements.

laventana - 5-5-2016 at 08:14 AM

Just wanted everyone to know EF block can be bought in Lowes in the Arizona now. That speaks volumes for the product, and the same block can be bought in Baja Sur.


also note that during hurricane Odile no EFBlock home had structural damage.

charliemanson - 5-11-2020 at 07:22 PM

As a follow up on this product,
We decided to build a 1000 sq/ft, square house with this product after having really good results from a Rasta block home we did in the states that was great.
Here, we are completely disappointed.

After one year the exterior is falling off, cracks everywhere (as compared to a typical block house we had built 20 years ago that has no cracking); it is less energy efficient (we need to sleep in our old house as the inside temp is 10 degrees hotter after running the A/C all day than our old block home), and we can not get any response from either of the partners of the product other than " it must have been your architect" and its not our problem and " I did not say I guaranteed anything". Funny, we had doubled the rebar requirements; 1/2 " over 3/8" and added extra structural support after the consultation with the company before we started building as we wanted to make sure we were solid.

Probably our fault for not completely checking other projects that were made from the block locally, as we felt comfortable from past experiences with a similar product. Possibly due to a different climate or substandard production here locally.
Now after asking questions locally from others that have used the block, we are having the exact same problem as others. Structural cracking ( when it does rain, it is completely soaked inside from the cracking), hotter inside than outside in most months, need for total use of A/C to be able to be comfortable at all hours of the day.

The cost to build was way more than anticipated. Probably 20% more than the 5% percent quoted.

Now we are peeling off huge failed sections of the pulito in order to fix the cracking of the block itself in order to stop the leaking of water when it rains.
IMHO this block is a disaster and would recommend good old Mexican block for energy savings, cost of building and pain in the burro for dealing with the problems.

Just do your research first! That was or mistake and are sorry we didn't

weebray - 5-12-2020 at 08:35 AM

We have an addition built with metal studs and modern insulation. I know Mexico is still learning to use it but we are very happy with the product and the cost. Foam does degrade if exposed. CM's experience would make me stop and think.

pacificobob - 5-12-2020 at 09:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
anyone interested in this foam block should look at a house built two or three years ago...

it does insulate but also cracks because it "flexes"

it is great for insulation the block does not transfer heat


i was under the impression that all materials transfer heat...some more quickly than others. something about thermal dynamics?

[Edited on 5-12-2020 by pacificobob]

laventana - 5-12-2020 at 09:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by charliemanson  
As a follow up on this product,
We decided to build a 1000 sq/ft, square house with this product after having really good results from a Rasta block home we did in the states that was great.
Here, we are completely disappointed.

After one year the exterior is falling off, cracks everywhere (as compared to a typical block house we had built 20 years ago that has no cracking); it is less energy efficient (we need to sleep in our old house as the inside temp is 10 degrees hotter after running the A/C all day than our old block home), and we can not get any response from either of the partners of the product other than " it must have been your architect" and its not our problem and " I did not say I guaranteed anything". Funny, we had doubled the rebar requirements; 1/2 " over 3/8" and added extra structural support after the consultation with the company before we started building as we wanted to make sure we were solid.

Probably our fault for not completely checking other projects that were made from the block locally, as we felt comfortable from past experiences with a similar product. Possibly due to a different climate or substandard production here locally.
Now after asking questions locally from others that have used the block, we are having the exact same problem as others. Structural cracking ( when it does rain, it is completely soaked inside from the cracking), hotter inside than outside in most months, need for total use of A/C to be able to be comfortable at all hours of the day.

The cost to build was way more than anticipated. Probably 20% more than the 5% percent quoted.

Now we are peeling off huge failed sections of the pulito in order to fix the cracking of the block itself in order to stop the leaking of water when it rains.
IMHO this block is a disaster and would recommend good old Mexican block for energy savings, cost of building and pain in the burro for dealing with the problems.

Just do your research first! That was or mistake and are sorry we didn't


what town did you build in, if nearby i would like to see. The manufacturer of the block is building like crazy in my town. The word generally gets around fast, but have not heard any complaints. Maybe he is the only one who can build with it properly. I have not seen him in a year or so even in a small town.

I built a room with panel-w 15 or so years ago. I used the roof elastomeric paint on the outside walls of it to be another vapor barrier as a precaution. Not that they recommended it to me. Panel-W is about in the end about 15-20% more to build with when everything is said and done too.

Fernweh - 5-13-2020 at 08:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
We have an addition built with metal studs and modern insulation. I know Mexico is still learning to use it but we are very happy with the product and the cost. Foam does degrade if exposed. CM's experience would make me stop and think.


That is correct, metal stud/joist framing is very advanced, but you find that type of construction almost only in commercial buildings. I have use that type in the US extensively, last project was my bodega roof with metal joists here in Centenario.
My main casa was build with double concrete block walls, and a 2" foam insulation in between. Just a tiny learning curve for the local contractor......just perfect for our climate here.

laventana - 5-13-2020 at 08:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fernweh  
Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
We have an addition built with metal studs and modern insulation. I know Mexico is still learning to use it but we are very happy with the product and the cost. Foam does degrade if exposed. CM's experience would make me stop and think.


That is correct, metal stud/joist framing is very advanced, but you find that type of construction almost only in commercial buildings. I have use that type in the US extensively, last project was my bodega roof with metal joists here in Centenario.
My main casa was build with double concrete block walls, and a 2" foam insulation in between. Just a tiny learning curve for the local contractor......just perfect for our climate here.
what was the upcost to your sturdy as a rock approach?

also the major benefit is your thermal mass on the inside of the foam to keep a very stable/uniform temperature i would assume.

knowing how thenight winds come in and cool of LaPaz in the summer (I ride a motorcycle and when entering lapaz in the summer morning have to wear a jacket) very curious, do you use it with ac or the cool night winds to cool it from the daytime heat in the summer.

[Edited on 5-13-2020 by laventana]

[Edited on 5-13-2020 by laventana]

Fernweh - 5-14-2020 at 10:07 AM

Realistically, I did not look at the cost at all. My local workers had no problems building the casa with basically dual walls. I must admit, the concrete posts and beams, did not received the 2" foam insulation, but they connect both walls nicely together.
At today's high temps, the house stays wonderfully cool inside, without fans or A/C, and the sliding doors are open all day. My bathroom was built with just single walls, and you can tell the difference easily, even the bath room floor is warmer than the floors in the rest of the house.
Eventually, in the mid summer heat the inside of the house will get warmer, and I have to use the A/C to keep my bedroom at 27C, for me to sleep well.

Pacifico - 5-14-2020 at 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fernweh  
Realistically, I did not look at the cost at all. My local workers had no problems building the casa with basically dual walls. I must admit, the concrete posts and beams, did not received the 2" foam insulation, but they connect both walls nicely together.
At today's high temps, the house stays wonderfully cool inside, without fans or A/C, and the sliding doors are open all day. My bathroom was built with just single walls, and you can tell the difference easily, even the bath room floor is warmer than the floors in the rest of the house.
Eventually, in the mid summer heat the inside of the house will get warmer, and I have to use the A/C to keep my bedroom at 27C, for me to sleep well.


I've always thought of building a house with double walls as you have! I think it is a great idea... How thick did your walls come out? 14"-16"?

weebray - 5-14-2020 at 11:14 AM

Where it is possible, careful consideration should be given to subsurface excavation. The simple choice of buying a lot on a slope could go a long way toward providing lifelong protection from heat. Ideally, a slope facing south. Ten feet down the earth is cool.

laventana - 5-14-2020 at 12:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
Where it is possible, careful consideration should be given to subsurface excavation. The simple choice of buying a lot on a slope could go a long way toward providing lifelong protection from heat. Ideally, a slope facing south. Ten feet down the earth is cool.


How did you determine the 10 feet? Did you actually do this?

not sure it is good for my town as we have geothermal water in our area, several hot pools that you can dig out at the sea edge if you catch it at the right tide level. I could be far enough away from that area but would not risk it without testing. Certainly would be great for the cold winter nights no matter what.

KylesBahiadrean - 7-21-2020 at 06:54 PM

The climbing gym I used to manage in Palm Springs the entire building was made with these , amazing product.. the owner made these on site while building the gym ,in the picture you can see said “cinder blocks “

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caj13 - 7-22-2020 at 11:11 AM

I built my 4200 sq ft home out of ICF blocks and SIPS panels for the roof. stucco finish on the outside. We did all of the work , with the exception of shingling the roof, stuccoing, and sheetrocking, ourselves. blocks were 2.5 inches of foam on each side, with 8" void filled with rebar and concrete, so walls are just over 1 foot thick. each block was 4ft X 2 ft, and it interlocked with the blocks below and above it. The block had H shaped plastic webbing inserts molded into the block, to hold the rebar , and also provide "anchoring for screwing into the block.

You just laid down a row of block along the perimeter, laid in rebar into the webbing, then stacked the next layer and repeat. once the full structure was built, we brought in a cement pumper and pumped the walls full from the top down - pretty straightforward!

BTW pretty fire resistant as well, I get a significant insurance break on homeowners insurance because of that.

If i remember right, i used 1.75 MILES of rebar in the house 2 track of rebar through every block - so every 2 feet high is 2 rows of rebar running continuously horizontally parallel around the house, plus vertical rebar as well. , and i think somewhere around 75 sq yds of concrete, - foundation, footings, slab & walls. i heat it with a standard 50 gallon water heater and radiant tubes, and cool it with ducted swamp coolers (NO AC) . With just the swamp coolers, on a typical 100 degree day here in central California, my inside temp stays 74-75 degrees, I have gotten a 28 degree difference from inside to outside if i aggressively manage the cooling through the day.

incredibly comfortable house to live in, no maintenance other than 1 paint job of wood trim, plus i had it redashed about 5 years ago, mostly because we wanted a lighter color on the exterior.

electric bill is about 1/4 of similar sized houses in thew area, quiet, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about ICF - The house is now 16 years old - no spider cracks. no window not square, no doors not fitting, etc.

I heard alot of ICF bashing from contractors, none with any experience or desire to do ICF, and i assume they saw it as a threat to their standard framing jobs, but so far, again 16 years into it, and no issues.



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