BajaNomad - CFE - Hang On To Your Shorts

CFE - Hang On To Your Shorts

DavidE - 6-5-2013 at 03:19 PM

Serious discussions are underway in México to adjust the tarifas para la luz. The emergence of El Parque Jurassic, in Los Pinos means the hogs are storming the trough once again (Raul Salinas: That one hundred eighty seven million dollars in Swiss banks accounts is mine - and all due to shrewd investments)

Take your Cuenta bimestral. On the left side, find COSTO de GENERACION. Well guess what, if the compys and velociraptors have their way the CFE is going to make THAT figure your bill. Every last centavo.

It's justified! It's SUBSIDIZED. La Republica has to buy crude oil. Do you know how many billions of dollars it took to establish transformer manufacturing facilities near Monterrey that supply all of north and central America? And the wages! Why shouldn't Mexican electricity cost more than power in the USA? The overhead is unimaginable.

But but but but, they CARE! If your bill is under 150 kWh a month, the rate will stay the same, Isn't THAT nice?

msteve1014 - 6-5-2013 at 03:33 PM

Take a tramadol, take two. Tranquillo.

monoloco - 6-5-2013 at 05:31 PM

I'm good, unless they raise the tarifa on sunshine. :lol:

rts551 - 6-5-2013 at 05:45 PM

me thinks your shorts are in bunch....someone give you a wedgie?

DavidE - 6-5-2013 at 05:49 PM

Wait till the 3,000 peso bills start rolling in he he he he he.

Udo - 6-5-2013 at 05:57 PM

150 KWH per month?
A refrigerator uses more than half of that.

Once we move to BA, I was hoping that we could stay below 350KVH.
When we come by on June, we are changing what bulbs we can to LED.

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
But but but but, they CARE! If your bill is under 150 kWh a month, the rate will stay the same, Isn't THAT nice?

msteve1014 - 6-5-2013 at 06:07 PM

It won't matter udo, David keeps predicting the end of the world, Asuncion first, no doubt.

DENNIS - 6-5-2013 at 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Wait till the 3,000 peso bills start rolling in he he he he he.

Another step closer to a revolution.

msteve1014 - 6-5-2013 at 06:14 PM

Yeah, all the gringos on S.S. will jump up and run for home.

Udo - 6-5-2013 at 06:25 PM

If global warming raises the sea level by two inches in the next 5 years, BA still has another 78" of cliffside to go, before the sea reaches the top.
Probably about another 300 years.
Shari and Juan's house should be safe longer than that, their place is about 20' above water level, plus they have a rock cliff below them.

Quote:

Originally posted by msteve1014
It won't matter Udo, David keeps predicting the end of the world, Asuncion first, no doubt.

[Edited on 6-6-2013 by Udo]

chuckie - 6-6-2013 at 04:05 AM

And they have a stepladder...

DavidE - 6-6-2013 at 09:51 AM

Last bill 173 kWh, COSTO de PRODUCCION 768 pesos.

Every time in the past that the price of gasoline and power jumped, the peso grew a lot weaker afterwards. I wonder if this is going to be the case this time?

The guessing game used to be a lot easier before the USA started weakening the dollar. I don't like it when a currency war starts. There is too much poverty as it is in Mexico. To see ultra wealthy exploit it is difficult for me. I think the base issue is the finances of CFE and, Petroleos Mexicanos are not transparent. Too many ultra wealthy Mexicanos are using both as cash cows. For them to "keep even" with the value of the Euro is a little hard for the poor to stomach.

Bajatripper - 6-6-2013 at 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Why shouldn't Mexican electricity cost more than power in the USA? The overhead is unimaginable.

When I use to keep up with issues such as this, I recall reading of plans to build as much electrical generating stuff as possible in Mexico but within easy reach of the US grid precisely so that they could sell "excess" energy to the US. The bottom line of this arrangement is that the energy would be sold to the highest bidder, so Mexican consumers would be made to compete against the US market. Another thing of note in this arrangement: this would also effectively transfer some of the regional US energy production to Mexico, where environmental laws are...well..more lax. Of course, the concern of some was that, while the plants would have been located in Mexico, the air currents don't respect international boundaries so much.

But investor shares would look good, no doubt.

DavidE - 6-6-2013 at 10:33 AM

I'd hate to think USA energy speculation windfalls end up coming out of the pocket of destitute Mexicanos.

BajaBlanca - 6-6-2013 at 03:36 PM

big electric bills are NO fun as we found out the first time we completed one full year in Baja.

Now we too have sunshine as our best ally!

chuckie - 6-6-2013 at 03:39 PM

Big electric bills are the product of using a lot of electricity! Comprende?

capt. mike - 6-6-2013 at 03:49 PM

CFE is embarking on a big solar push that will help all Mexicans via incentives to grid tie - unheard of before - now they "get it". they can't sell to USA cause they cannot compete with Nuclear power - no one can. Palo Verde the world's largets reactor by Phx sells most of its production to CA and the rest goes to Az APS. the production sales to CA are at 2-3 cents per KWh. Most solar PPAs in AZ go for 10 cents at least. Locked for 20 years.

monoloco - 6-6-2013 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
CFE is embarking on a big solar push that will help all Mexicans via incentives to grid tie - unheard of before - now they "get it". they can't sell to USA cause they cannot compete with Nuclear power - no one can. Palo Verde the world's largets reactor by Phx sells most of its production to CA and the rest goes to Az APS. the production sales to CA are at 2-3 cents per KWh. Most solar PPAs in AZ go for 10 cents at least. Locked for 20 years.

That's because nuke power is heavily subsidized by the government.

chuckie - 6-6-2013 at 07:25 PM

HUH? Where are there any Nuclear power plants being built in the US?

durrelllrobert - 6-6-2013 at 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Wait till the 3,000 peso bills start rolling in he he he he he.

Wait my a*s. Mine have always been in that range because of the DAC rate that is higher than the highest of the graduated rates.

durrelllrobert - 6-6-2013 at 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Last bill 173 kWh, COSTO de PRODUCCION 768 pesos.

You must feel good. My last bill was for 706 kWh with Costo de production at $2,294.66 and total bill of $2,576.70

Hook - 6-6-2013 at 07:46 PM

It really is amazing how expensive elec is in Mexico. I dont know how the average Mexican pays it. Any change that increases the cost cant be good for them.

gnukid - 6-6-2013 at 08:13 PM

Could this dialog be any more idiiotic?

David complains that his bill is 760 odd pesos for two months or about $30/month?

Banking on Solar? Nuclear?

It's been down to 60 almost every night so far this Summer?

The problem presently is lack of logical thinking and common sense among Baja Nomads. Hydrate, eat well and mind your business!

Hook - 6-6-2013 at 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Big electric bills are the product of using a lot of electricity! Comprende?

150 KWH per month as a base is NOT A LOT OF ELECTRICITY!!!

DavidE - 6-8-2013 at 10:49 AM

One thing glares at me, that is the utter, total and complete lack of empathy for MEXICANS on this forum. I was not complaining about my lack of ability to pay for my 150 kWh basic rate. But it is obvious just how closely some of you are really connected to Mexico or not. Visit despite the Mexicans.

Bajaboy - 6-8-2013 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
One thing glares at me, that is the utter, total and complete lack of empathy for MEXICANS on this forum. I was not complaining about my lack of ability to pay for my 150 kWh basic rate. But it is obvious just how closely some of you are really connected to Mexico or not. Visit despite the Mexicans.

I have plenty of empathy for Mexicans on this forum :lol:

But seriously, it's Mexico. If they want change then they can do so at the voting booth. And also of note, the government has been subsidizing many goods and services for the poor. Now it's time to pay the piper.

Lastly, I know plenty of Mexicans that are doing just fine for themselves.

DavidE - 6-8-2013 at 11:42 AM

Believe it, if this is approved the PRI future is doomed. But the increase will not go away.

What has the government been "subsidizing"?

msteve1014 - 6-8-2013 at 12:38 PM

It sure reads like you are complaining. You said nothing about how you would be ok, but felt bad for your Mexican friends.

DavidE - 6-8-2013 at 12:56 PM

122,000,000 Mexicans. 1 me.

Need I furnish footnotes and caveats?

SFandH - 6-8-2013 at 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE

Take your Cuenta bimestral. On the left side, find COSTO de GENERACION. Well guess what, if the compys and velociraptors have their way the CFE is going to make THAT figure your bill. Every last centavo.

So, two questions.

1. What percent increase does that amount to on your last bill?

2. Where did you hear about this? I just did a google search and did not find anything saying what you're saying. Doesn't mean it's not out there, I just didn't find it.

DavidE - 6-8-2013 at 03:18 PM

780 pesos versus 163 pesos. Processo newspaper article. Six hundred pesos added for basic service will just destroy many impoverished families. In tierra caliente my 18CF Samsung refrigerator was consuming an average of 188 kWh - 60 days, even clad in 2" of rigid foam insulation.

If this rate increase passes, Mexico's power price will exceed that of Guatemala, Nicaragua and other countries that do not have the benefit of in-house crude oil or refineries. Oh wait I forgot about those forty dollar an hour CFE union wages.

There is virtually ZERO subsidizes in Mexico except for 1/3rd. 1/3rd, 1/3rd IMSS funding. The NIDO family supplement is available because Hacienda does not tax NIDO.

Gasoline? Diesel? You have to be kidding me. The PEMEX SHELL joint venture refinery provides 101% of the "imported" finished fuels, using Mexican crude. The METRO in DF is subsidized by the state of Mexico. Subsidized transportation? Take a cab ride sometime. One bus, eighty passengers, 1.150 pesos to the border. Oh I think Aguila and ABC are not losing money.

SFandH - 6-8-2013 at 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
780 pesos versus 163 pesos.

If I did the arithmetic right, that's a 370% increase.

That's not going to happen.

DavidE - 6-8-2013 at 03:58 PM

God I hope not. This will suck the life out of the kids' enramada.

chuckie - 6-8-2013 at 04:05 PM

Hook...my statement is correct....The people that will holler most are those that as we speak are bunkered down in their houses with the A/C going full blast, watching TV.....I also couldnt find anything on a massive increase in rates in Mexico.....

Feel bad for those San Diegans

Bajaboy - 6-8-2013 at 10:45 PM

Print page
SDG&E RATE INCREASE APPROVED; BILLS TO GO UP 11%
Utilities commission authorizes new revenue
By Morgan Lee12:01 a.m.May 10, 2013Updated8:41 p.m.May 9, 2013

Utility bills will rise in September with approval Thursday of a four-year rate increase totaling more than $500 million for customers of San Diego Gas & Electric Co.

A typical household will see monthly gas and electric bills rise about 11 percent to $132.02, up from $118.52, according to the California Public Utilities Commission.

The company was granted a 7.6 percent revenue increase starting in 2012. The hike will be collected retroactively, so many bills will rise by more than that percentage to catch up.

By a 5-0 vote, the utilities commission authorized an initial annual revenue increase for the utility company of $123 million, for a new total of $1.73 billion, for 2012. Subsequent annual increases of nearly 3 percent will be tied to the urban Consumer Price Index.

SDG&E had asked for an additional $116 million increase in the first year, so the company did not get the full amount it was seeking.

The rate increase will vary for gas and electric portions of the bill.

On the electric side, a typical customer will experience an increase of $9.95 per month, or 12.2 percent, according to the utilities commission. The natural gas portion of a typical bill will rise $3.55, or 9.6 percent. The estimates are for customers consuming 500 kilowatt hours and 33 therms of gas a month.

“Rates currently in effect, before this decision, were in fact lower than they otherwise would have been,” said Commissioner Mark Ferron, the one commissioner to oversee nearly three years of hearings and deliberations on the rate increase. “As new rates catch up to the higher revenue requirement, this magnifies the one-time impact.”

SDG&E, which serves 1.4 million electric and 845,000 gas customers in San Diego and southern Orange counties, argued its costs are being driven up by safety and reliability needs, new electric grid technologies, expanded environmental regulations and higher insurance costs for wildfire liability and employee health care.

As the utilities commission met Thursday in San Francisco, the only public comment came from an AARP representative who said the size of the increase was unwarranted, though consumer advocacy groups have spent years contesting SDG&E requests.

“We tried to ensure that every part of this increase creates genuine value for customers,” Ferron said. “And I sincerely hope that in the future we work to ensure each rate case is decided before the start of the effective period, thereby reducing the sticker shock of this catch-up effect.”

After the meeting, San Diego County Supervisor Dianne Jacob put out a statement saying she was “disappointed that state regulators put the needs of the utility above the consumer.”

Consumer advocates who argued that customers cannot keep up with the rate of increases in utility spending won a concession in the way annual increases will be calculated in 2013-2015.

Those increases will now be tied to the federal government index for consumer inflation in urban areas, known as the CPI-U — plus an additional 0.75 percent. Previous decisions linked increases to a more aggressive index tailored to the utility industry.

“This is an important philosophical shift for the commission,” Ferron said. “It puts the focus of the rate case squarely on the impact to consumers from any potential future rate increases and creates a strong incentive for the utilities to manage costs through improvements in efficiency and productivity.”

Commission President Michael Peevey, though he voted for the decision, expressed concern about the impact of using the urban Consumer Price Index as utilities contend with already negotiated wage increases and surging medical costs.

“This is a new approach. I can understand the reasons for it from a consumer point of view,” said Peevey, a former president of California utility operator Edison International. “I think that one should think carefully, though, before we embrace CPI in every instance.”

Commissioner Mike Florio praised allocations to wildfire safety in the San Diego area, which include tree trimming, brush removal, undergrounding of electric overhead facilities, and replacing wooden poles with metal poles. Wildfires triggered largely by utility lines in October 2007 destroyed more than 1,300 homes in San Diego County and killed two.

Florio raised concerns, however, about investor-owned utilities consistently earning above the authorized rate of return on their investment.

“That’s probably in part good management,” said Florio, who directed a utility consumer protection group before joining the utilities commission in 2011. “But it’s also, I think, reflective that we’ve consistently given them more money than they really need. So I will be watching closely to see if the company actually spends the money that we’re giving them.”

The commission said the rate increase would ensure sufficient funding for new federal pipeline inspection and maintenance requirements, along with state and federal environmental regulations.

It provides new incentives and penalties for meeting reliability targets on the frequency and duration of power outages.

It also authorizes $26 million for research and development of energy storage technology. Those technologies are seen as important to California’s push to integrate more electricity from variable sources such as wind and solar.

Under California’s tiered electrical rate system for residential customers, bill increases will be felt most acutely by customers who consume more than 437-kilowatt hours but don’t qualify for alternate rates based on low family income.

Rate increases are limited each year for customers who consume less than that threshold under laws enacted in the aftermath of California’s 2000-2001 crisis from power market manipulation.

The rate decision covers nearly every aspect of utility operations and maintenance of distribution infrastructure. Commodity costs for electricity and gas are passed through directly to customers, and transmission rates for moving electricity over long distances are regulated by federal authorities.

© Copyright 2013 The San Diego Union-Tribune, LLC. An MLIM LLC Company. All rights reserved.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/may/10/tp-sdge-rate-incr...

David K - 6-9-2013 at 02:12 AM

America sits on a lake of energy... and that we don't use it and cut energy costs and foreign dependence is alarming and stupid. This gang in charge even gives our tax dollars to other countries to drill for oil on their land. Huh?

Drilling for oil is okay somewhere else. but not where it benefits us? Huh?

chuckie - 6-9-2013 at 04:18 AM

BUT Where is there anything pointing to a massive rate increase in electric rates in Mexico?

David K - 6-9-2013 at 04:22 AM

Have the rates been subsidized by government (ie taxpayer's money) and it is time for the users to fairly pay for what they get? Just asking...

chuckie - 6-9-2013 at 04:24 AM

So? This is a hypothetical? Based on nothing? We are long overdue for a cure for the common cold as well....

Hypothetical?

durrelllrobert - 6-9-2013 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
So? This is a hypothetical? Based on nothing? We are long overdue for a cure for the common cold as well....

As I posted above (and I wasn't complaining) The DAC rateis already using the Costo de production as the basis. On my last bill the costo de production shown on the left side was $2,294.66.
On the right side the Estado de cuenta shows:
Energia 2,294.66
IVA 11% 252.41
Fac. del period 2,547.07
IAP 28.49
Adeudo Anterior 3,310.14
Su Pago - 3,310.00
Total $2,575.70

Osprey - 6-9-2013 at 12:25 PM

Every state, area, zone, city, village is different.

Bob pays $100 bucks a month for 706 Kwh in Punta Banda

Jorge pays $73 bucks a month for the same two months for 861 Kwh in East Cape.

Oh Chuckie Have I Got NEWS For You

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Hook...my statement is correct....The people that will holler most are those that as we speak are bunkered down in their houses with the A/C going full blast, watching TV.....I also couldnt find anything on a massive increase in rates in Mexico.....

I'm hollering really really REALLY loud. I've not SEEN an air conditioner in three years. At the moment I am wearing a Carhartt insulated vest.

I just love some of these asssssssssssssumptions. They're fun to read.

Here, hold onto my hand and I'll lead the way...

http://www.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/577409eff8ed0e4164086d202b09dfe6

chuckie - 6-9-2013 at 01:24 PM

David E? Your ego is too big...Everything is not always about you...My statement is true....If you dont have an A/C..Thats your choice....But NOT important to the discussion on utility rates....

BajaNomad - 6-9-2013 at 01:50 PM

:?:

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie on June 8
The people that will holler most are those that as we speak are bunkered down in their houses with the A/C going full blast...

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie on June 9
If you dont have an A/C..Thats your choice....But NOT important to the discussion on utility rates....

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 02:34 PM

My ego is tiny señor chuckie.

I have too many impoverished friends, and something like this gets to me. Many of them are scraping by as it is. How do you get your kids to secondaria 5-miles away. By car of course. Pay a utility bill with the nearest ventanilla 5 or 10 miles away? Gasoline is three fifty a gallon and the type of automobile or camioneta owned by impoverished people are worn out clunkers that get horrid gas mileage. Ever check the efficiciency of a 2nd or 3rd hand Mabe made-in-Mexico refrigerator? They run 24/7.

I think I'm wasting my breath.

chuckie - 6-9-2013 at 02:45 PM

No, you are not..the plight of these folks is something we all should be concerned about....Here in Mulege, things seem to be getting worse,due to the effect of the floods, and the reduced flow of tourists...I have lived here on and off for over 30 years, and this year is the first year I have had Mexican friends asking to borrow money to get by...I accomodate them when I can, and so far have ALWAYS been paid back....Our personal usages wont have much effects on rates or policies...I have A/C but so far have had no use for it....Not so for many of the folks down on the ditch....I guess if you get used to harvesting wheat in NW Kansas in 100+ temps and 90+ humidities.....this aint bad...FYI: Altho its not germain to the subject, my Electric bill at the ranch was seldom less than 500 bucks/month..here 30-40 bucks..

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 03:12 PM

You have a rancho in Mulege? Ranches require lots of power.

Eight hundred peso CFE bills bi-mestral?

I dare ANYONE on this forum to TRY and live on 75 kWh per month.

100 watts 24/7 = 16.8 kWh weekly

x 8 weeks (60 days) = 134.4 kWh

Most fans, draw 30 - 80 watts

When the government owns the oil and charges CFE a lot* for it, it is NOT a subsidy. When the government TAXES electricity 11% in Baja California and 16% on the mainland, it is NOT a subsidy. CFE is an enormous 101% profit oriented entity. Empleados de CFE get their basic and intermediate bill paid for 100%.

*same price for diesel, or #6 fuel oil as you or I pay for it, and Hacienda charges CFE 11% or 16% IVA on the sale of oil from Petroleos Mexicanos and Comision Federal de Electricidad.

chuckie - 6-9-2013 at 03:32 PM

READ SLOWER My ranch was in NW Kansas..I grew wheat, people eat wheat. Bread is made out of wheat....Iam wasting MY breath..yours is a social vendetta...

DENNIS - 6-9-2013 at 03:34 PM

Boys...Boys.....Let's have a Pacifico. :tumble:

willardguy - 6-9-2013 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Boys...Boys.....Let's have a Pacifico. :tumble:

then how are you gonna know who won?

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 03:53 PM

Mine is a FACTS vendetta. How can a wheat ranch be compared to a retirement home as far as total electrical usage? The issue is the feasibility of "living" (versus existence) on 75kWh per month, and whether thirty dollars a month is fair to the poor. Nothing more, nothing less.

Out "here" on the peninsula, water is scarce. Two pumping stations plus the SAPA local plant. Seventy four miles of pipeline. Wanna know why the system has no pressure so often? It's to SAVE on the electricity. Yet I am being charged 72 pesos per month. My friends and neighbors do not gripe, nor do I. Even when I open the tap and get an enormous blast of water and air that drowns the counter, the floor and me. I yell "¡Servicio Aire Poquito Agua!" but that's the breaks.

The days of SUBSIDY are OVER. When things were subsidized like the tranbordador, Pemex was forced to cut them an enormous break on the price of diesel. Now the ferries pay the same price as you and I at the diesel pump. This is why shipping an RV rig to the mainland can cost a thousand dollars or more. Jet fuel is another matter entirely. The public does not purchase JP-5.

Subsidized bread at two dollars and change a loaf. How about milk at four dollars plus a gallon? The only thing SUBSIDIZED in Mexico are the hogs at the trough in México. D.F.

[Edited on 6-9-2013 by DavidE]

chippy - 6-9-2013 at 04:10 PM

I don´t thint de can afford a Pacifico

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 04:39 PM

Sure they can! At seventy some odd pesos a six pack what's half a day's worth of labor between friends?

chuckie - 6-9-2013 at 04:44 PM

I'm out....Dementia has taken over.....Whatever David E is trying to prove, is OK with me.....Smoke on

Udo - 6-9-2013 at 04:49 PM

I wonder what 500 KVH will cost in BA???

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Every state, area, zone, city, village is different.

Bob pays $100 bucks a month for 706 Kwh in Punta Banda

Jorge pays $73 bucks a month for the same two months for 861 Kwh in East Cape.

Udo - 6-9-2013 at 05:10 PM

PS...

After looking at the CFE rates from earlier this year...

The BA house with a renter in it, in January & March 2013 used 134KVH and 156 KVH.
I think iflyfish (Rick) was pretty conservative as a renter for those 4 winter months.

I hope we are that conservative once WE move down!

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 05:22 PM

Chuckie, los siento mucho but I am drug-free for my entire life. I saw others wash out of college and at Stanford, one does not wander into the rose garden without getting punctured. Pretty dismal trying to assassinate a character by using the "Drug" metaphor.

BA has the highest (most expensive) tarifa because it is classified as not being in "Tierra Caliente".

Using what little suggestion of kWh rates were estimated, looks like 500 kWh is going to be worth in excess of three thousand pesos. Anyone here have a recent CFE bill listing a COSTO de PRODUCCION with 500 kWh. That figure will be the one to gauge bills by.

Again, this is a proposal. It is currently not a scheduled increase. You'll know when it becomes reality when you hear of a million-strong protest is Mexico City. I still find it difficult to believe the PRI could be that stupid. But then, they are of the same mold as USA politicians, failed lawyers.

shari - 6-9-2013 at 05:24 PM

our last bill here at home..2 fridges, computer, light, power tools(lots last month) used 529 kWh and was total 1,773.79 with 856.10 subtracted for the subsidy leaving us with 1,019.11 which is about $80 US dollars...for 2 months so around $40 a month...waaaaay less than mot guys spend on beer on a weekend...just to put it in prospective.. :lol:

and that is because we had so many power tools running...we usually pay between 600-800 pesos for 2 months.

Osprey - 6-9-2013 at 05:46 PM

David E, you might have done your Mexican friends a disservice here because I let many poor Mexicans in my village know that my astute Nomad friends say they may have to soon pay more than double what they are used to paying to CFE. Are you a proud messenger? How well informed are you about this particular issue and why did you risk causing even more fear or discontent for your Mexican neighbors?

Wanna take it back? Wanna hide behind "It has Been Rumored"?

[Edited on 6-10-2013 by Osprey]

[Edited on 6-10-2013 by Osprey]

shari - 6-9-2013 at 09:32 PM

truly this is a huge issue that is getting alot of press....and will be disastrous if it actually happens.
It wasnt very long ago in our village that cash wasnt the currency...most everything was paid for by the fishing cooperatives...medical,power, water, food, beer...the necessities. Many many people still dont carry cash and sign the book at the store counter....

soooooo...the culture is not used to having to budget, getting bills and having to have actual money to cover them...or the services get cut off. Every two month around power bill paying time people are scrambling to sell stuff to pay their bill...it's very sad but I understand why it is happening. There simply isnt enough money to cover all the "needs" which have become greater now...cell phones, phone bills (which they never had before), CFE and Sappa...power and water...which are also relatively new to the village.

Having to pay bills is an enormous transition...a new thing to learn and the folks are still adjusting to that and trying to figure it all out....so yes, In my opinion, this CFE issue is a critical economic problem at the moment that is looming over everyone's heads...but as David mentioned all of a sudden...everything goes up...except the fisherman's wages...so how does a family deal with all of the sudden increases in the cost of living? It's not like they can cut out those dinners at fancy restuarants...or nights on the town...theatre tickets.

Most folks live on the edge and have no savings which could be simply bad financial planning or budgeting.

DavidE - 6-10-2013 at 09:23 AM

I am not running around like chicken little if that is your implication. But I did talk to the kids, and told Jesús he had better clad the freezers in the enramada with 2" of foam which he knows where to purchase in Lazaro Card##as. Over the last six-months I have been asking fellow Nomads to bring down CFL's which I have been passing out to the poverty stricken. I am only one person peeing in the ocean trying to raise the sea leavel but I try and do what I can.

I live a live of frugality and enjoy it, but is it fair to force a life of beans, tortillas, salt, chili, and musica on the Mexicans? So a very few fat cats in Mexico City can buy yet another Casa Chica and finally afford the BMW of their dreams?

CFE wages have not gone up. How do you revalue something already paid for (diesel and #6 fuel oil). CFE is GOBERNACION, the same as PEMEX. Mexico produces ALL the copper wire, all the transformer windings, the concrete for the poles, the steel, the manufacturing. This sort of reminds me why a loaf of bread in Florida can cost twenty dollars just before a hurricane hits.

My fellow voters can scream and threaten the local sucursal de PRI with dire promises of retaliation if this bill passes. What is better, leave them in the dark until the factura arrives?

The looting of America by the financial and speculative sector is one thing, but Americans will not be endangered, there are too many safety nets. Every day Mexicans die because they face a choice of medicine or food. It ain't funny amigo.

SFandH - 6-10-2013 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
..... if this bill passes.

What bill? Please provide a link.

DavidE - 6-10-2013 at 10:37 AM

This proposal is a BILL in the camara de senadores

http://www.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/577409eff8ed0e41...

SFandH - 6-10-2013 at 10:56 AM

From the above link:

“Ajustar gradualmente las tarifas de uso doméstico de electricidad y agua a los precios reales de mercado, con la aplicación de medidas compensatorias para grupos vulnerables”.

Google translation:

"Gradually adjust household tariffs for electricity and water to the actual market prices, with the compensatory measures for vulnerable groups. "

DavidE - 6-10-2013 at 11:16 AM

The "compensatory adjustments for vulnerable groups"
DOES NOT MEAN

"NO INCREASE FOR VULNERABLE GROUPS!"

It just means they will not being charged at full "COSTO de PRODUCCION" tarifas.

And 150kWh will remain the cutoff point.

You want an everyday example of inflated prices? Look at Bimbo with USA prices, and of course lots of workers paid USA wages. Sections of cuotas that charge A DAY'S WAGES to use. How would you like it if you had to pay two hundred dollars to travel between San Diego and Santa Ana? Each way?

Google transation of link

durrelllrobert - 6-10-2013 at 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
This proposal is a BILL in the camara de senadores

http://www.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/577409eff8ed0e41...

Mexico City • The federal government intends to eliminate subsidies to electricity and water to "encourage an increase in the efficiency of both energy consumption and water" as one of the economic measures "with climate approach".

According to the National Climate Change Strategy which was presented yesterday by President Enrique Pena Nieto, the federal government requires financial resources to support actions in favor of the environment and also need to "send economic signals that reflect the cost of environmental damage ".

Therefore, as part of 18 lines of action to develop fiscal policies on environmental issues, develop two ideas to eliminate subsidies and implement the real prices of inputs.

Distributed on three points, the federal government states that energy is required to determine rates under a life cycle analysis that considers the cost of greenhouse gas emissions.

In that sense, we propose to restructure electricity subsidies to encourage fuel efficiency and in that sense raises the following point: "Gradually adjust household tariffs for electricity and water to the actual market prices, with the compensatory measures for vulnerable groups. "

Also, according to the diagnosis was made on the status of the country against natural disasters, it was estimated that 27 million Mexicans who live thousand 385 municipalities are at risk of disaster.

The risks are related to climate variations, ranging from natural disasters such as floods and landslides, to heat waves, reduced precipitation yields and disease transmission.

The diagnosis was made by the Mexican Network of climate modeling, integrated by the Center for Atmospheric Sciences, the National Weather Service, among others, coordinated by the National Institute of Ecology.

According to the study, a thousand 202 municipalities are exposed to agricultural drought thousand 20 to heat waves, although a greater number of locations, the exposed population adds 97 million people. As long as only 824 municipalities that are exposed to flooding affectation come to 61 million people.

This is in the body of the document that forms the National Climate Change Strategy which was introduced by the federal president Enrique Peña.

Articulated in eight MLAs, were outlined policies that aim to lessen the negative effects of climate change as they lose up to 7 percentage points of GDP for environmental damage and hardly generate 0.6 percent of GDP with green technologies.

BLAME IT ON GLOBAL WARMING :fire:

DavidE - 6-10-2013 at 12:33 PM

Greenhouse strategy = Platinum Parachute

This is like telling a farmer whose milpa has just failed and his family is facing starvation.

"All you have to do is 're boot'...and start using buzzwords and your maize will grow like magic, I promise you..."

Griffin - 6-18-2013 at 10:02 AM

Is there a lower rate for summer?
We just got our first CFE bill (917 pesos for abril 8th to junio 7th) at our new place and it looks like the rate went way down for the 38 dias de Verano.
Does it stay that low?

DENNIS - 6-18-2013 at 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griffin
Is there a lower rate for summer?
We just got our first CFE bill (917 pesos for abril 8th to junio 7th) at our new place and it looks like the rate went way down for the 38 dias de Verano.
Does it stay that low?

I thought the periods ran for +- two months, Jan/Feb....Mar/Apr etc.

durrelllrobert - 6-18-2013 at 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

I thought the periods ran for +- two months, Jan/Feb....Mar/Apr etc.

My last one was for 12 FEB - 16 ABR so the first period is actually from mid DEC to mid FEB

durrelllrobert - 6-18-2013 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

In Mexicali and other place deemed to be Tierra Caliente they go down for summer months because air condition is necessary (even if you don't have it) :fire:

bajalinda - 6-18-2013 at 12:06 PM

Griffin - don't know where you are located, but here where we are in BCS the summer rates are May through October and are less expensive than the other half of the year.

Your billing cycle dates depend on when you started up your service. Our service originally started on the 19 of the month, but the date on which our meter is read has gradually worked back to around the 9th because CFE apparently wanted to get as many people as possible in our area to have their meters read on the same date - fewer trips out here for the meter reader that way.

DavidE - 6-18-2013 at 01:23 PM

1
Cargos por energía consumida
Consumo básico $ 0.771 por cada uno de los primeros 75 (setenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo intermedio $ 0.942 por cada uno de los siguientes 65 (sesenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo excedente $ 2.754 por cada kilowatt-hora adicional a los anteriores.

DOMESTICAS DE ALTO CONSUMO (DAC), 2013

Consultar tarifas de:

Esta tarifa se aplicará a todos los servicios que destinen la energía para uso exclusivamente doméstico. Se considera de alto consumo cuando registra un consumo mensual promedio superior al límite de alto consumo definido para tu localidad.

El consumo mensual promedio se determinará con el promedio móvil del consumo registrado por el usuario en los últimos 12 meses.

Cuando el Consumo Mensual Promedio sea inferior al Límite de Alto consumo fijado en la localidad, se aplicará la tarifa doméstica 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E y 1F; que corresponda

El límite de alto consumo se define en función de la tarifa doméstica: 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E y 1F ; que se aplique en tu localidad.

TARIFA LIMITE
1 250 kWh/mes
1A 300 kWh/mes
1B 400 kWh/mes
1C 850 kWh/mes
1D 1,000 kWh/mes
1E 2,000 kWh/mes
1F 2,500 kWh/mes

REGION BAJA CALIFORNIA

CUOTAS MENSUALES EN VERANO

El período de aplicación de las cuotas de verano comprende los 6 meses más cálidos del año, de acuerdo a las observaciones de las estaciones termómetricas que rijan en cada localidad. Los 6 meses restantes se aplican las cuotas Fuera de Verano

CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en verano
($/kWh) 3.602 3.617 3.546 3.523 3.556 3.654 3.615

CUOTAS MENSUALES FUERA DE VERANO
CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en fuera de verano
($/kWh) 3.095 3.108 3.047 3.027 3.055 3.139 3.105

REGION BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR

CUOTAS MENSUALES EN VERANO

El período de aplicación de las cuotas de verano comprende los 6 meses más cálidos del año, de acuerdo a las observaciones de las estaciones termómetricas que rijan en cada localidad. Los 6 meses restantes se aplican las cuotas Fuera de Verano

CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en verano
($/kWh) 3.926 3.943 3.866 3.840 3.876 3.983 3.940

CUOTAS MENSUALES FUERA DE VERANO
CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en fuera de verano
($/kWh) 3.095 3.108 3.047 3.027 3.055 3.139 3.105

REGION NOROESTE
CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en fuera de verano
energía ($/kWh) 3.469 3.484 3.416 3.393 3.425 3.520 3.482

REGION NORTE Y NORESTE

CUOTAS MENSUALES
CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en fuera de verano
($/kWh) 3.382 3.397 3.331 3.309 3.340 3.432 3.395

REGION SUR Y PENINSULAR

CUOTAS MENSUALES
CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en fuera de verano
($/kWh) 3.439 3.454 3.387 3.365 3.396 3.490 3.452

REGION CENTRAL

CUOTAS MENSUALES
CARGOS POR Dic./2012 Ene. Feb. Mar. Abr. May. Jun. Jul. Ago. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dic.
Cargo fijo ($/mes) 78.81 79.30 79.05 78.80 78.85 78.63 77.95
Cuotas por energía consumida en fuera de verano
($/kWh) 3.708 3.724 3.651 3.627 3.661 3.762 3.721

- Temporada de verano

El verano es el periodo que comprende los seis meses consecutivos más cálidos del año, los cuales serán fijados por el suministrador de acuerdo con las citadas observaciones termométricas.

Griffin - 6-18-2013 at 01:58 PM

Cool, thanks

DENNIS - 6-18-2013 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalinda
Our service originally started on the 19 of the month, but the date on which our meter is read has gradually worked back to around the 9th because CFE apparently wanted to get as many people as possible in our area to have their meters read on the same date - fewer trips out here for the meter reader that way.

They, just this minute, drove through and read ours. We'll have our bills by Friday......maybe.

chuckie - 6-18-2013 at 03:02 PM

I have not turned my A/C on until just now...Wimp company coming for lobster pigout tonite..forestall the whining, maybe? I am a big advocate of the COLD Pacifico, move slowly approach....

bajalinda - 6-18-2013 at 03:05 PM

Wow - lucky you, Dennis, that's fast! We usually get our bill a week to 10 days after the meter reader has been here.....and they deliver it right to our front gate. Up until a couple of years ago, we had to go and pick up the bill at the CFE office in La Paz. Gotta say we much prefer this new service!

DavidE - 6-18-2013 at 03:11 PM

Chuckie, they should be OK with a fan, right? I do admit however I am writing this while dressed in a sweat shirt and wearing an insulated Carhartt vest.

Learning to read a meter and knowing the average 24 hour kWh consumption rate allows me the luxury of knowing what my bill is going to be within a few pesos.

Udo - 6-18-2013 at 05:31 PM

Thanks for the detailed CFE bill, DavidE!

Now I'll have some idea what our bill will be in BA on a regular basis.

Bajaboy - 6-18-2013 at 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Chuckie, they should be OK with a fan, right? I do admit however I am writing this while dressed in a sweat shirt and wearing an insulated Carhartt vest.

Learning to read a meter and knowing the average 24 hour kWh consumption rate allows me the luxury of knowing what my bill is going to be within a few pesos.

sweat shirt and insulated vest? It's 6:33 pm at our place and a nice cozy 76 degrees inside.

DENNIS - 6-18-2013 at 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalinda
Gotta say we much prefer this new service!

I don't know how far back you go here, Linda, but to really appreciate what we have today, one had to live here in the old days. It was brutal the way they, and the other utilities, treated their customers. It was absolute power abuse. [no pun intended]

LaTijereta - 6-18-2013 at 06:25 PM

You can read your bill here, about 4-5 days after they read your meter..

http://app.cfe.gob.mx/Aplicaciones/CCFE/Recibos/Consulta/log...

Very easy to get registered to log-in.. :cool:

bajalinda - 6-19-2013 at 09:21 AM

Thanks, LaTijereta. We are signed up online with CFE and sometimes our bill does appear online before it's delivered here, but they usually both appear around the same time.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, I'm NOT complaining. We think that CFE does a pretty good job - in fact, when we get a major storm rolling through these parts and the power goes out......1 or 2 days later we see a CFE truck and agent arrive here checking to see that everything is back up and running. And this without a service call in to them on our part - they know that service is out in the whole area and I'm often amazed at how quickly they manage to get things back to normal.

DaliDali - 6-19-2013 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalinda
Thanks, LaTijereta. We are signed up online with CFE and sometimes our bill does appear online before it's delivered here, but they usually both appear around the same time.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, I'm NOT complaining. We think that CFE does a pretty good job - in fact, when we get a major storm rolling through these parts and the power goes out......1 or 2 days later we see a CFE truck and agent arrive here checking to see that everything is back up and running. And this without a service call in to them on our part - they know that service is out in the whole area and I'm often amazed at how quickly they manage to get things back to normal.

Indeed, I appreciate their service.
A couple of years back, after a hurricane blasted El Valle and Loreto, knocking down the power lines from San Carlos northward, the CFE brought in mobile diesel generators that turned the lights back on in Loreto. Albeit a week after, and my frozen goods had perished.

One could hear the cheers of relief throughout the town.

Mula - 6-19-2013 at 09:36 AM

CFE are quick responders in Lopez Mateos.

We have frequent outages, but they are always quick to respond.

laventana - 6-23-2013 at 11:45 PM

and claim they pay 4000 pesos a month in subsities but does that mean it is true?

Canada delivers electricity to their customers at 7 cents per kwh, usa average is about 11 cents, Hawaii is the most expensive, but they really do not need AC. The wholesale price of electricity in the USA is about 4-6 cents per kwh. Production cost as someone noted Nuke about 2-4 cents, coal and natural gas about 4-6 cents. fuel oil cost is about 8-10 cents. solar reflective concentrating 14 cents per kwh I think delivered by the boulder city plant. Photovoltaic is about 30-40 cents.

Germany has one of the highest rates in the world is 40 cents per kwh retail.

Here in mexico if you hit your DAC rate it is over 4 pesos per kwh plus tax.

I have links to all these numbers if someone wants them. just ask.

I read my meter almost every other day. Have done so for 14 years and it is on a spreadsheet. Do it with water too. I have had some appliances go bad (salt air is so nasty to electronics) that would have cost me significantly but caught the problem right away, and water line breaks that would have been expensive, some people hit USD$2,000.00 water bills a month because of a pipe break they did not know about.

Thus this game of saying subsidized, again they could write 4000 pesos and or 1 million, well at those people would figure it out. I bet Carlos is involved somehow... hahahaha

[Edited on 6-24-2013 by laventana]

Indeed Electricity Is Subsidized

DavidE - 6-24-2013 at 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by laventana
and claim they pay 4000 pesos a month in subsities but does that mean it is true?

Canada delivers electricity to their customers at 7 cents per kwh, usa average is about 11 cents, Hawaii is the most expensive, but they really do not need AC. The wholesale price of electricity in the USA is about 4-6 cents per kwh. Production cost as someone noted Nuke about 2-4 cents, coal and natural gas about 4-6 cents. fuel oil cost is about 8-10 cents. solar reflective concentrating 14 cents per kwh I think delivered by the boulder city plant. Photovoltaic is about 30-40 cents.

WOTTS HOOT. Reading threads that claim electricity is subsidized...

After all, Mexico has to import Mexican oil and process the oil in Mexican refineries at great cost. Refinery workers make twenty dollars an hour, right? Think of the transportation! Halfway across this narrow country to one of five major refineries!

Then there's transformers! Hauled all the way from Monterrey, Nuevo Leon where they are manufactured for the entire northern Western Hemisphere. Again, costly due to those twenty dollar an hour wages plus benefits!

PLEASE! Don't forget those punitive corporate taxes!

COPPER! On the far side of the moon. Disregard the fact that Mexico is one of the biggest copper producers and wire manufacturers in the world. Again poverty stricken unionized workers with profit killing wages and benefits.

Concrete For The Poles. CEMEX is a figure of your imagination.

GLASS INSULATORS. Again, these must be imported from where? Tibet? OK. OK. Monterrey. More union wages.

And those CFE workers. How much? Four times as costly per hour as an SCE. DWP, or PG&E worker.

And the nuclear reactor at Bahia Verde. Do not, I say, do not count the petroleum Mexico traded to France for the reactor. That would not be fair.

Keep this up, I howl until my sides hurt...

COPPER! Yee gads!

Germany has one of the highest rates in the world is 40 cents per kwh retail.

Here in mexico if you hit your DAC rate it is over 4 pesos per kwh plus tax.

I have links to all these numbers if someone wants them. just ask.

I read my meter almost every other day. Have done so for 14 years and it is on a spreadsheet. Do it with water too. I have had some appliances go bad (salt air is so nasty to electronics) that would have cost me significantly but caught the problem right away, and water line breaks that would have been expensive, some people hit USD$2,000.00 water bills a month because of a pipe break they did not know about.

Thus this game of saying subsidized, again they could write 4000 pesos and or 1 million, well at those people would figure it out. I bet Carlos is involved somehow... hahahaha

[Edited on 6-24-2013 by laventana]

durrelllrobert - 6-24-2013 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
In Mexicali and other place deemed to be Tierra Caliente they go down for summer months because air condition is necessary (even if you don't have it) :fire:

Sounds like a deal; why are you mad about it? :?:

Just cause we don't get it in Punta Banda

durrelllrobert - 6-24-2013 at 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaTijereta
You can read your bill here, about 4-5 days after they read your meter..

http://app.cfe.gob.mx/Aplicaciones/CCFE/Recibos/Consulta/log...

Very easy to get registered to log-in.. :cool:

IF you can remember your user name and password from 8 years ago when you first signed up. If you don't you can't register as a new user.

US Water bill

durrelllrobert - 6-24-2013 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

At my last house in US my water bill averaged $350/month without any pipe breaks. What really got me was that for every gallon of water used they added on a sewer usage charge for 100% of those gallons even though I had a septic system and none of my water went into their sewer.

laventana - 6-25-2013 at 12:14 AM

lets also look at wiki, from what I read they are accurate on many things, did not see any errors in the basic numbers they showed.

As we know transportation in bulk by ship is very cheap other than pipeline it is the least expensive mode of transportation in the world.

But to prove it lets use a bit of good old fashion common sense. My numbers are spot on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Mexico

In 2008 CFE stated they had a loss of 11%. And on our bills they claim they paid at least equal to what they charged to 6 times..... ........ if they ONLY lost 11% and they were to charge 100% well well... well 11 percent does not equal 100% in my book........

I looked at a recent bill that was 540 pesos and the so called government portion was 1,800 pesos so this is roughly a claimed 300% apportion. So again if everyone's bill went up 4 times does that equal 11%.....

and as we know hmmm I forgot a few details in the costs, the payoffs, and yet they only were 11% loss. From what I have heard in rumor mills is the payoff is about 20-30%. And add in the employees of CFE get free electricity. A friend of mine's neighbor works for CFE and their house in the summer same construction as my friend who uses his AC to just the night and has a $200,00 a month bill. The neighbor same type of house is ice cycles all day and night.

Here let me give you some shipping numbers. a 40 foot container from China to long beach is about $1,200.00 non peak time. believe it or not that is very far vs mexico to houston. and the cost of a container per sq foot that is much harder to move around is about 2500 cubic feet one cubic foot is about 7.5 gallons so to send to china from Los Angeles your fuel t taking into discounts for volume or easier transport, is about 7 cents per gallon. but return trip doubles it. loading and unloading time have a cost that may be similar, but to unload containers is included in that price.

distance to china is 7000 miles, so Houston to the Mexican oil fields is how far 500-2000 miles.

this is a decent price approximation for shipping.

durrelllrobert - 6-25-2013 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Sounds like a deal; why are you mad about it? :?:

Just cause we don't get it in Punta Banda

So is your "excessive" energy consumption there, due to air conditioning? Even in La Paz I've experienced several houses which were livable completely WITHOUT it, seems like up there in the polar climes of Punta Banda, one should be able to get along with minimal air conditioning...?

What amazes me in La Paz, is how few new houses are constructed with energy consumption in mind. And ironically, those that are constructed "green", are generally by folks with money, who can afford to pay the energy bills.

No ac needed in Punta Banda. The highest temp I've seen in the 8 years I've been here was 85 outside and 72 in my house.
The biggest energy consumer is my pila pump which uses 0.75 kWh when it comes on. My problem isn't with the kWh cosumed but with the rate we have to pay; 3.641 pesos /kWh vs 0.854 in Mexicali

RnR - 6-25-2013 at 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

What amazes me in La Paz, is how few new houses are constructed with energy consumption in mind. And ironically, those that are constructed "green", are generally by folks with money, who can afford to pay the energy bills.

A few observations from the La Paz building scene:

1. It costs 10-30% more to build an energy efficient house rather than standard construction.

2. Most homeowners do not spend the summer in the East Cape/La Paz area and, therefore, do not have to worry about paying the AC electric bills anyway.

3. And, some math on the payback period -

a) Assume a new house costs $100,000 USD.

b) Add a 20% premium for "efficient" construction - $20,000 USD.

c) Guestimate AC electric costs at an additional $100 USD/month for five months - $500/yr.

d) That's a 40 year payback period!

Your average retiree will not live in that house for 40 years to realize the return on the investment. Adjust the numbers as you see fit but it's tough to make it payback during your average homeowner's occupancy period.

[Edited on 6-25-2013 by RnR]

DavidE - 6-25-2013 at 09:01 AM

Actually Laventana, the cost of tankering from Villahermosa to Deer Park is minimal. Far less than the length of the Baja California peninsula, and then 37% of the refinery output is returned to Queretaro via the El Paso pipeline. The Salina Cruz Oaxaca refinery "feeds" the Rosarito generation distillation plant # 6 fuel oil. All by tanker. The USA has a far far harder and more expensive time feeding its various refineries. At the Shell Oil Martinez refinery we fed the PG&E generation plant on site until Shell got tired of it and purchased it to feed LOP (Light Oil Processing).

Do I trust the PRI? About as much as I trust(ed) the USA firms below...

List of major accounting scandals
Company Year Audit Firm Country Notes
Lockheed Corporation 1976[citation needed] United States
Nugan Hand Bank 1980[2] Australia
ZZZZ Best 1986[3] United States Ponzi scheme run by Barry Minkow
Barlow Clowes 1988[4] United Kingdom Gilts management service. £110 million missing
MiniScribe 1989[5] United States
Polly Peck 1990[6] United Kingdom
Bank of Credit and Commerce International 1991[7] United Kingdom
Phar-Mor 1992[8] Coopers & Lybrand United States mail fraud, wire fraud, bank fraud, and transportation of funds obtained by theft or fraud
Informix Corporation 1996[9] Ernst & Young[10] United States
Sybase 1997[11][12][13] Ernst & Young[14] United States
Cendant 1998[15] Ernst & Young United States
Waste Management, Inc. 1999[16] Arthur Andersen United States Financial mistatements
MicroStrategy 2000[17] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Michael Saylor
Unify Corporation 2000[18] Deloitte & Touche United States
Computer Associates 2000[19] KPMG United States Sanjay Kumar
Lernout & Hauspie 2000[citation needed] KPMG Belgium Fictitious transactions in Korea and improper accounting methodologies elsewhere
Xerox 2000[20] KPMG United States Falsifying financial results
One.Tel 2001[21] Ernst & Young Australia
Enron 2001[22] Arthur Andersen United States Jeffrey Skilling, Kenneth Lay, Andrew Fastow
Swissair 2001 McKinsey & Company Switzerland
Adelphia 2002[23] Deloitte & Touche United States John Rigas
AOL 2002[20] Ernst & Young United States Inflated sales
Bristol-Myers Squibb 2002[20][24] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Inflated revenues
CMS Energy 2002[20][25] Arthur Andersen United States Round trip trades
Duke Energy 2002[20] Deloitte & Touche United States Round trip trades
Dynegy 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Round trip trades
El Paso Corporation 2002[20] Deloitte & Touche United States Round trip trades
Freddie Mac 2002[26] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Understated earnings
Global Crossing 2002[20] Arthur Andersen Bermuda Network capacity swaps to inflate revenues
Halliburton 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Improper booking of cost overruns
Homestore.com 2002[20][27] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Improper booking of sales
ImClone Systems 2002[28] KPMG United States Samuel D. Waksal
Kmart 2002[20][29] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Misleading accounting practices
Merck & Co. 2002[20] Pricewaterhouse Coopers United States Recorded co-payments that were not collected
Merrill Lynch 2002[30] Deloitte & Touche United States Conflict of interest
Mirant 2002[20] KPMG United States Overstated assets and liabilities
Nicor 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Overstated assets, understated liabilities
Peregrine Systems 2002[20] KPMG United States Overstated sales
Qwest Communications 2002[20] 1999, 2000, 2001 Arthur Andersen 2002 October KPMG United States Inflated revenues
Reliant Energy 2002[20] Deloitte & Touche United States Round trip trades
Sunbeam 2002[31] Arthur Andersen United States
Tyco International 2002[20] PricewaterhouseCoopers Bermuda Improper accounting, Dennis Kozlowski
WorldCom 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Overstated cash flows, Bernard Ebbers
Royal Ahold 2003[32] Deloitte & Touche United States Inflating promotional allowances
Parmalat 2003[33][34] Grant Thornton SpA Italy Falsified accounting documents, Calisto Tanzi
HealthSouth Corporation 2003[35] Ernst & Young United States Richard M. Scrushy
Nortel 2003[36] Deloitte & Touche Canada Distributed ill advised corporate bonuses to top 43 managers
Chiquita Brands International 2004[37] Ernst & Young United States Illegal payments
AIG 2004[38] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Accounting of structured financial deals
Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC 2008[39] Friehling & Horowitz United States Massive Ponzi scheme.[40]
Anglo Irish Bank 2008[41] Ernst & Young Ireland Anglo Irish Bank hidden loans controversy
Satyam Computer Services 2009[42] PricewaterhouseCoopers India Falsified accounts
Lehman Brothers 2010[43] Ernst & Young United States Failure to disclose Repo 105 transactions to investors
Sino-Forest Corporation 2011[44] Ernst & Young Canada-China
Olympus Corporation 2011[45] Ernst & Young Japan tobashi using acquisitions
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Waddles, Quacks and has lots and lots of feathers, than 11%

laventana - 6-25-2013 at 10:14 AM

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Originally posted by RnR

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not sure if you are hitting the numbers exactly. I would estimate it being about 10% to make a huge difference.

a friend of mine opened a foam block manufacturing plant in LaPaz about a year ago. so he takes the foam from packing materials and processes them into blocks with a R factor of about 23. Most construction already insulates the roof from what I have seen here. So his material is just affecting the outside walls not the cost of anything else. That type of block has been used in the USA for about 20 years plus.

His site estimated the add-on cost to a house is about $4,000.00 for every 1000 square feet. so lets say his numbers are correct.

I have a friend who has a 2000 sq foot living space solid typical block home that he built not expecting to live down here. Due to financial scircumstances now lives here full time. He has hit the DAC rate and is now paying about 4 pesos plus tax per Kwh. He has a bill last summer for 18,000 pesos. So with tax about USD$900.00 a month. They zone cool. Note because they are on the DAC rate it is 12 months before you are removed and they will not be removed because they continue to use a lot of electricity, so it quadruples their every month bill. So they are paying an extra $200.00-$300.00 a month for the other months too.

I have one stand alone bedroom in direct sunlight that is R12 walls and R30 roof and I use a 7000 BTU AC split unit and when I run it at night you wake up freezing if you want for about 7 kwh usage per night. Or 210 kwhs per month or about $20.00 a month. I also have low cost US double pane e glass, with UV and infrared reflecting glass from Lowes in the USA that cost about one third the price of windows down here.

So lets assume the same savings with this other block which is double the insulating factor. This would give them using the zone cooling about 1000 kwh to be in comfort. With a bill of about $200.00 a month. So he would save about $700.00 a month for 4-5 months.

This means he would pay off his $8,000.00-$12,000.00 for 2000 sq feet increase in cost to build in 3-5 years. And should he ever sell that would be a huge selling feature vs a house that does not have it..

My friends website for the environmentally friendly block is www.efblockmx.info

Not to mention being warmer in the winter. It does get cold down here for a few weeks sometimes. And non insulated block retains that cold. I have some friends who heat their concrete block homes with their ovens in the winter to take that morning bite off. I warn them about the carbon monoxide issue.

www.efblockmx.info

[Edited on 6-25-2013 by laventana]

DavidE - 6-25-2013 at 10:44 AM

I tried "taking the chill off" a tiny 2X6 plywood house last winter with LPG. Sixty dollars, three weeks and four degrees warmer I figured THAT was a loser.

willardguy - 6-25-2013 at 11:16 AM

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Originally posted by durrelllrobert

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Originally posted by lencho

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Originally posted by durrelllrobert

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Originally posted by lencho
Sounds like a deal; why are you mad about it? :?:

Just cause we don't get it in Punta Banda

alright im lost. I get the 3 tier pricing. so do you fall into the basico,intermedio, or excedente pricing level?
and I get different area pricing but how can you be paying 3.641 pesos/kwh when just up the road here in rosarito im paying 0.750 ???? is this really THAT unfair? :?:

laventana - 6-25-2013 at 11:22 AM

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Originally posted by willardguy
alright im lost. I get the 3 tier pricing. so do you fall into the basico,intermedio, or excedente pricing level?
and I get different area pricing but how can you be paying 3.641 pesos/kwh when just up the road here in rosarito im paying 0.750 ???? is this really THAT unfair? :?:

there is also a DAC rate. Once you hit it you have a minimum of 12 months before you can be removed. it is for every kwh around 4 pesos plus per kwh and no tiers.

Hint some people get around it by "renting" out their place and changing the name on the bill which resets the rate to begin over.

[Edited on 6-25-2013 by laventana]