BajaNomad - June 6, 1944 - Powered by XMB

June 6, 1944

bajaguy - 6-6-2013 at 09:33 AM

Remember D-Day June 6, 1944

Many have forgotten the significance of June 6th, but on this day in 1944 those men serving in the armed forces of the United States and our Allies (The Greatest Generation) made the landings on the beaches of Normandy, France with great sacrifice in the battle that started the end to World War II in Europe.

Please remember those who fought the battle that day and the ultimate sacrifice made by thousands of our service men to free Europe.

BajaRat - 6-6-2013 at 09:40 AM

They liberated my parents.............. I will always be indebted to them.

tiotomasbcs - 6-6-2013 at 12:39 PM

Thanks. It goes by almost unnoticed

Hooray for the Liberators and those who value Freedom. Tio

DENNIS - 6-6-2013 at 12:58 PM

It was a different time, but our debt to the Allies is timeless.....endless.
I'm glad I never received a letter that began, "Greetings." [pack your bag and report to war till it's over, and just in case, say goodbye to your mother and your dog.]
How can we repay our debt except to honor the freedoms which they fought and died for.

.

[Edited on 6-6-2013 by DENNIS]

KurtG - 6-6-2013 at 01:33 PM

I have a copy of Life magazine from June 19, 1944 which has Ike on the cover and David Douglas Duncan's photos of the landing. These were the first published photos in the US and were very graphic, grainy black and white shots of bodies in the surf. Very powerful stuff, unfortunately several other rolls of film he took that day were ruined in processing. A great historical loss. I found this magazine years ago and bought it both for the historical interest and because I was born the day after the magazine's date, June 20, 1944.

DENNIS - 6-6-2013 at 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG
Very powerful stuff, unfortunately several other rolls of film he took that day were ruined in processing.

I think Robert Capa had the same problem.

KurtG - 6-6-2013 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG
Very powerful stuff, unfortunately several other rolls of film he took that day were ruined in processing.

I think Robert Capa had the same problem.

Dennis,
I just rechecked and you are absolutely correct. It was Capa not Duncan who took those photos.

DENNIS - 6-6-2013 at 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG
[I just rechecked and you are absolutely correct. It was Capa not Duncan who took those photos.

Poor ol' Capa. Went through that war as well as the Spanish Civil War, and other things, then got blown to hell by a landmine in Nam.
Just doesn't seem fair.

DocRey - 6-6-2013 at 02:25 PM

Hear, hear, bajaguy!
I have the distinct privilege of rendering military honors to our deceased vets twice monthly with the All Forces Honor Guard (allforceshonorguard.com) at Riverside National Cemetery.
I, at times find myself wandering the gravesites reading names, dates & service branches, wondering who this men & women were.
This Longest Day will always be remembered.

DENNIS - 6-6-2013 at 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DocRey
Hear, hear, bajaguy!
I have the distinct privilege of rendering military honors to our deceased vets twice monthly with the All Forces Honor Guard (allforceshonorguard.com) at Riverside National Cemetery.
I, at times find myself wandering the gravesites reading names, dates & service branches, wondering who this men & women were.
This Longest Day will always be remembered.

And, a big hats off SALUD to you Doc. Thank you.

DavidE - 6-6-2013 at 03:13 PM

I wish I could someday have a chance to visit the cemeteries in Normandy. I know it is impossible. I also wish some of the French would remember the sacrifices a little harder.

bajaguy - 6-6-2013 at 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I wish I could someday have a chance to visit the cemeteries in Normandy. I know it is impossible. I also wish some of the French would remember the sacrifices a little harder.

David you can visit any National or Military Cemetery and walk through history. Two that I have been to that are exceptional are at the Presidio of San Francisco and at Ft Huachuca in Arizona.

J.P. - 6-6-2013 at 08:20 PM

Quote:

A friend down here in Punta Banda Was doing the honor guard thing up there in Riverside its been a while since I saw him I don't know if he's still doing it or not, If he's still kicking I would think he's still doing it You know what they say about old MARINES.

DENNIS - 6-6-2013 at 08:20 PM

Here's one, Fort Rosecrans, right in our own backyard:

http://www.cem.va.gov/cems/nchp/ftrosecrans.asp

bajaguy - 6-6-2013 at 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

.........You know what they say about old MARINES.

Yeah. You can tell a Marine, but you can't tell 'em much!!! :lol:

Ateo - 6-6-2013 at 08:40 PM

I love Fort Rosecrans. My grandfather is buried there. Korean War veteran though, not WW2.

Either way, an acknowledgment of sacrifice is always appreciated.

DocRey - 6-6-2013 at 09:24 PM

Thanks, DENNIS.
J.P., Was that Marine named Joe Portugal? And did he also volunteer as a firefighter? If so, he served with the Semper Fi team(s) & All Forces.
Sadly, last I heard he'd had a stroke and was in a convalescent home.
Semper Fi

Skipjack Joe - 6-6-2013 at 09:30 PM

Frank Capa's best -

bajadogs - 6-6-2013 at 10:46 PM

I forgot.

Jeez man, I can't believe I forgot. My great uncle (my grandfather's brother) died last year. He was a simple Okie farmer who never talked about the war. He didn't wave the flag or have custom license plates that showed his war heroism. You would never assume he had ever been anywhere other than the route between Oklahoma and the California central valley.

The medals and documents found in a box showed he was a rifleman in Europe and helped free a concentration camp.

I only knew him as Uncle Willard, who was glad to talk about how to grow onions and tomatoes.

I am sorry I forgot.

J.P. - 6-7-2013 at 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DocRey
Thanks, DENNIS.
J.P., Was that Marine named Joe Portugal? And did he also volunteer as a firefighter? If so, he served with the Semper Fi team(s) & All Forces.
Sadly, last I heard he'd had a stroke and was in a convalescent home.
Semper Fi

That's him , that, really bad news he is 100% MARINE.

DENNIS - 6-7-2013 at 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Frank Capa's best -

Robert Capa?

baitcast - 6-7-2013 at 07:56 AM

My father had a good friend who was very similar to uncle Willard, he also has no interest to discuss WW2 but who as a paratrooper was one of the first to hit the ground before the landing.

6/6/44 my tenth birthday I remember it well all the radio,s blasting away,everyone cheering but concerned,not many of those boys are left,I've always had a lot of admiration for those guys!!
Rob

jbcoug - 6-7-2013 at 08:27 AM

DavidE,

Let's not ruin this by bringing up the French.

John

The Sculpin - 6-7-2013 at 08:51 AM

You're right, DavidE and jbcoug - let's not bring up the French - those nasty, vile people who were the only county to believe in our little experiment called democracy. The same people who fought next to us in our revolutionary war and gave us as a gift one of our most endearing icons - the one that sits on ellis island. Yup, those same vile people who also live in a democracy and had the unmitigated audacity to have an opinion about us that I gather runs contradictory to yours.

Rick Atkinson WWII trilogy

capitolkat - 6-7-2013 at 09:18 AM

I'm reading the Rick Atkinson trilogy on WWII and it's the most enthralling historical account of the campaigns that I have read. It was good we got all the kinks out in North Africa before we tried the D-Day landings. The historical research is amazing as the bibliography is about 1/3 the length of the books.

Bajajorge - 6-7-2013 at 09:46 AM

Did anybody notice that there was not one D Day movie on TV yesterday. In years past just about every movie channel had at least one WWII movie on. Yesterday, I couldn't find one. Says alot for this day and age.

durrelllrobert - 6-7-2013 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Don't forget the other 19 foreign cemeteries our WW2 soldiers are buried in. The total count is 104,366 dead, brave Americans.

IN ALPHBETICAL ORDER

1. The American Cemetery at Aisne-Marne , France ... A total of 2289

2. The American Cemetery at Ardennes , Belgium ... A total of 5329

3. The American Cemetery at Brittany, France ... A total of 4410

4. Brookwood , England - American Cemetery ... A total of 468

5. Cambridge , England ... A total of 3812

6. Epinal , France - American Cemetery ... A total of 5525

7. Flanders Field , Belgium ... A total of 368

8. Florence , Italy ... A total of 4402

9. Henri-Chapelle , Belgium ... A total of 7992

10. Lorraine , France ... A total of 10,489

11. Luxembourg , Luxembourg ... A total of 5076

12. Meuse-Argonne... A total of 14246

13. Netherlands , Netherlands ... A total of 8301

14. Normandy , France ... A total of 9387

16. Rhone , France ... A total of 861

17. Sicily , Italy ... A total of 7861

18. Somme , France ... A total of 1844

19. St. Mihiel , France ... A total of 4153

20. Suresnes , France ... A total of 1541

[Edited on 6-7-2013 by durrelllrobert]

[Edited on 6-7-2013 by durrelllrobert]

mtgoat666 - 6-7-2013 at 11:31 AM

France is such a fun country to travel in, great food, hot women,... can't for the life of me figure out why gringo numbskulls are anti french,... just because the french have opinions :?:

Stickers - 6-7-2013 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

They do David, they remember quite well.

.

Skipjack Joe - 6-7-2013 at 05:05 PM

This country was founded on the principles of French Enlightenment.

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Inalienable Rights.

Where did that come from? Straight from the minds and values of the most advanced French thinkers of that time.

The American identity wouldn't even exist without the French. The pursuit of freedom which we see in every American film and hear in every political speech is what we got from the French.

I was watching DeMille's "Ten Commandments" the other day and there it was again. The message. "Let My People Go". It was a film less about the Bible than the American values of personal liberty and freedom from bondage. It goes all goes back to the French Revolution.

"Give me Liberty of Give me Death". It's all there. The French over and over again, from the begining. We have no idea how much of France is in us.

------------------------------------

Why don't Americans like the French? Because the French are independent and have a sense of self worth. They are not followers. They followed us in Kuwait but not in Iraq. Unlike England they don't rubber stamp everything we do. And that bothers many.

To KNOW them is to ........................

MrBillM - 6-7-2013 at 09:09 PM

It reminds me of something I read in Sail magazine years ago when the writer was visiting St. Barts and was surprised to find that the most popular T-Shirt worn by the natives said "I Hate FROGS".

BTW, the Frogs that were allied with us in our Revolutionary War (mainly for reasons having to do with their hostility towards Great Britain) were the LOSERS in that insane French Revolution.

bajadogs - 6-7-2013 at 11:10 PM

Nomads talk tires (offroad tires) but exclude BFG and Michelin because they are a French company. The French said "No Thanks!" when we invaded Iraq.

So did Mexico, Canada, all of South America except Columbia, and most of the sane world.

By the way - Here is a photo of my Uncle Willard off to war -

EDIT - The same mistake Obama was criticized for - calling him an uncle when he is in fact my great uncle... my fathers uncle... my grandfathers brother.

He held my daughter. How freaking cool is that?

[Edited on 6-8-2013 by bajadogs]

Willard-Cole.jpg - 18kB

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2013 at 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
It reminds me of something I read in Sail magazine years ago when the writer was visiting St. Barts and was surprised to find that the most popular T-Shirt worn by the natives said "I Hate FROGS".

BTW, the Frogs that were allied with us in our Revolutionary War (mainly for reasons having to do with their hostility towards Great Britain) were the LOSERS in that insane French Revolution.

Yes, the French Revolution was, essentially, an unsuccessful American Revolution. Same ideals but different outcome. France at the time was surrounded by monarchies who were horrified at the spectacle and feared their time was at hand as well. They worked hard to undermine it. Chaos and disorder followed by dicatatorship and nationalism. The dynamics were totally different in the New World where the only threat was from stone age man. But the difference between the form of government in the United States and those of Latin America is rooted in what the French Enlightenment passed on to us vs the church hegemony of the southern nations.

Mexico in WWII

bajaguy - 6-8-2013 at 06:47 AM

Mexican Air Force Squadron 201, nicknamed the "Aztec Eagles", flying US made P-47 "Thunderbolts" participated in combat missions in the Phillipines. It's fighters offered close ground support for U.S. and Philipino ground forces as they struggled to liberate the islands from the Japanese.

Decorated by the United States, Mexico and the Phillipines, its 31 pilots and approximately 150 ground support personnel were the only Mexican military force to serve outside of Mexico. Of the squadron's 31 pilots, 5 were killed in action. Its personnel, both pilots and ground support elements certainly deserve to be regarded as heros by both Mexico and the United States.

http://www.airartnw.com/aztec_eagles_story.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escuadr%C3%B3n_201

http://www.airartnw.com/strike_of_the_aztec_eagles.htm

[Edited on 6-8-2013 by bajaguy]

Correcamino - 6-8-2013 at 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge
Did anybody notice that there was not one D Day movie on TV yesterday. In years past just about every movie channel had at least one WWII movie on. Yesterday, I couldn't find one. Says alot for this day and age.

I agree, I didn't see even one airing of "The Longest Day", which used to be an annual ritual on June 6th. D-Day was such a big deal in my youth. Amazing how the country has moved on. However, TCM (which has a very old demographic), came through with a slate of D-Day/WWII related films. Most were pretty weak (No Longest Day) but at least they remembered:

TCM Schedule for Thursday, June 6, 2013

In honor of the 59th anniversary of D-Day, during the daylight hours, we're fighting the N-zis across Europe during World War II.

6:00 AM -- Attack on the Iron Coast (1968)
Canadian commandos take on a N-zi post on the coast of France.

7:45 AM -- Fighter Squadron (1948)
A dedicated flyer pushes himself and those around him during a perilous World War II campaign.

9:30 AM -- I See A Dark Stranger (1945)
An Irish woman who hates the English turns N-zi spy.

11:30 AM -- The Americanization of Emily (1964)
A British war widow falls for an opportunistic American sailor during World War II.

1:30 PM -- 36 Hours (1965)
N-zis kidnap a key American intelligence officer and try to convince him that World War II is over.

3:30 PM -- Resisting Enemy Interrogation (1944)

4:45 PM -- Screaming Eagles (1956)
A group of young soldiers parachute into France in preparation for D-Day.

6:15 PM -- Breakthrough (1950)
An American infantry unit moves from basic training to combat in Europe.

This film's opening prologue states: "With the American Troops in England. The Spring of 1944."

Bajajorge - 6-8-2013 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
France is such a fun country to travel in, great food, hot women,... can't for the life of me figure out why gringo numbskulls are anti french,... just because the french have opinions :?:

France doesn't seem to remember the saying, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". France would be goose stepping and speaking German if it weren't primarily for the military forces of the USA/England/Canada to save their bacon in WWI and WWII. But, from what I gather the French don't like the USA, and the feeling is mutual in the USA. It's not saying much to say they have great food and hot women, and you left off, over priced wine. IMO, I'm not impressed.

DENNIS - 6-8-2013 at 08:19 AM

Perhaps we should be concentrating our appreciation on the French who fought and suffered in WW-2. We can French Fry the later edition some other time.

Appreciation

MrBillM - 6-8-2013 at 08:49 AM

Should be framed in REALITY.

Before Canonizing the Frogs of WWII for their invaluable assistance to US, it is well to note that WE were Liberating THEIR country along with the rest of Europe.

And, that THEY found it too easy to Forget the DEBT owed to us once they were safe again.

As the French Jimmy Durante is well-known for saying (although not his original thought) that, nations don't have friends and don't have enemies. They have Interests.

Which Chuckie de Gaulle well demonstrated.

THEY owe US a LOT MORE than WE owe THEM.

[Edited on 6-8-2013 by MrBillM]

DENNIS - 6-8-2013 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM

THEY owe US a LOT MORE than WE owe THEM.

Could be, but a Baja website seems a strange place to be calling in the markers.

Correcamino - 6-8-2013 at 09:47 AM

I followed this anti-French thread for some time before remembering that I work as a volunteer reading tutor at (ironic pause) Lafayette Elementary School. But I guess this begs the question, is there an Eisenhower or Pershing école élémentaire in France?

I have spent some time in France over the years and I find that for the most part they are absolutely nuts about everything American - culturally, that is. Politically we come into fashion and (much more often) go out of style. But they generally have very little sympathy or appreciation for all the blood and treasure we've expended to keep the world (relatively) free and free from conflict.

Then there's the whole Jerry Lewis thing :?:

mtgoat666 - 6-8-2013 at 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Should be framed in REALITY.

Before Canonizing the Frogs of WWII for their invaluable assistance to US, it is well to note that WE were Liberating THEIR country along with the rest of Europe.

And, that THEY found it too easy to Forget the DEBT owed to us once they were safe again.

THEY owe US a LOT MORE than WE owe THEM.

typical pig-headed gringo know nothing foolishness: "THEY owe US a LOT MORE than WE owe THEM." your sense of american entitlement is folly! OK to have pride in your country, but when that pride blinds you into thinking you are better than others and your chit does not stink, you are a fool!

Correcamino - 6-8-2013 at 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM

THEY owe US a LOT MORE than WE owe THEM.

Could be, but a Baja website seems a strange place to be calling in the markers.

The French? In Baja? Ah, por cierto Santa Rosalía! Why, without the French we wouldn't have Panadería El Boleo! Vive la France!

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2013 at 11:10 AM

What the French should be grateful for to the Americans is not their liberation from the Germans, but from the Russians. Post WWII Europe would have looked very different had D Day not taken place.

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2013 at 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Correcamino

The French? In Baja? Ah, por cierto Santa Rosalía! Why, without the French we wouldn't have Panadería El Boleo! Vive la France!

Instead of Hollywood Boulevard we'd have Hollywood Carriageway.

DENNIS - 6-8-2013 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Correcamino

The French? In Baja? Ah, por cierto Santa Rosalía! Why, without the French we wouldn't have Panadería El Boleo! Vive la France!

Well, I was kinda talking about something else, but.......I know. Even Baja was in Napoleon's domain at a time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

vgabndo - 6-8-2013 at 02:08 PM

Maybe we didn't see much on "TV" about Memorial Day because the citizens of this nation are sick to death of being constantly at war. Maybe we finally got ashamed enough, running our country the way we do, that we couldn't stand to see Omaha Beach replayed again and see men die for a cause a good deal more noble than oil.

Good men died to leave us a country with the motto: E pluribus unum. Roughly, "out of many, one."

A nation of immigrants had stood shoulder to shoulder and put down the evil governments who would have taken away from their people the rights to be free from unwarranted search, their right to have their conversations and mail be confidential. They fought for Habius Corpus and the rule of law. Had the Italians won the war, their form of fascism would have resulted in the corporations and the government hand in hand owning virtually all Italian wealth. Had the Germans or Japanese won the war, can you not envision them snooping in your mail, listening-in on your telephone, having secret prisons where you could be held without a trial, waterboarded, and kept in solitary confinement for years.

Today we have allowed America to become very much like the countries the men we memorialize fought against on the battlefield. We gave up many of those freedoms they fought for with a Patriot Act. Ironic?

Maybe we don't want to look them in the eye on Omaha Beach.

DENNIS - 6-8-2013 at 02:13 PM

Well said, Perry. Thank you.

Kgryfon - 6-8-2013 at 03:45 PM

My uncle is buried at Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial in France. His death virtually destroyed my father's Mother and, as a result, his family. The ripples from his sacrifice impact our family to this day.

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/no.php

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2013 at 04:38 PM

Two calendar months later, Aug 6th, we ended the war on the Pacific front. But we don't celebrate that day.

Correcamino - 6-8-2013 at 05:20 PM

IIRC the Japanese surrendered August 15th (in the US). August 6 we bombed Hiroshima, then Nagasaki on August 9.

Now, THAT is Funny

MrBillM - 6-8-2013 at 05:49 PM

Sort of.

From VGA:

".......IF the Italians had won the war............"

There's a venture into an alternate-reality fantasy Universe.

In which the Italians could win ANYTHING on their own.

Thuggery, Corruption and Murder aside, THEY make the French look competent.

No mean feat.

BTW, I DO celebrate on August 6th.

A GREAT day that saved a LOT of lives from the planned invasion which would have been the worst of the 3 options.

Speaking of WWII and the heroes, watching a History Channel program celebrating Medal of Honor winners, I was struck by one who received the medal as a result of his heroism (at 18) in the battle on Okinawa. Speaking of his killing a slew of the enemy until they were piled high all around him, he said "it didn't mean a thing to me. I figured every one of them I killed was better than me being there on the ground. I've never had any regrets and never lost any sleep at all over it."

Basically, the same sentiment expressed by Paul Tibbets after turning Hiroshima into a wasteland.

A refreshing change from all the hand-wringers.

Correcamino - 6-8-2013 at 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
"it didn't mean a thing to me. I figured every one of them I killed was better than me being there on the ground. I've never had any regrets and never lost any sleep at all over it."

Basically, the same sentiment expressed by Paul Tibbets after turning Hiroshima into a wasteland.

A quote from Richard Nelson, Radar Operator of Enola Gay, who was 20 years old when he carried out the Hiroshima mission:

'War is a terrible thing,'' he told The Riverside Press-Enterprise on the 50th anniversary of the bombing. ''It takes and it destroys. Anyone feels sorry for people who are killed. We are all human beings. But I don't feel sorry I participated in it. If I had known the results of the mission beforehand, I would have flown it anyway.''

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
A refreshing change from all the hand-wringers.

It's hard for us to understand the shocking bitterness and brutality of the last battles of the Pacific War - Iwo Jima, Saipan, Okinawa. Those who saw these nightmares firsthand - and I've read many accounts - felt that what they had witnessed would not be believed by those who had not seen it. That's the context of the atomic bombings. The dread of the Japanese home island offensive overshadowed everything.

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2013 at 11:41 PM

The dropping of the bomb was one of the greatest acts of terrorism in the history of mankind. It ranks up there with the holocaust or the bombing of Dresden. It's not a matter of saving this amount of lives versus that amount of lives. It was dropped on a population of civilians at their most vulnerable hour: when workers and children were exposed by going to work and to school. On people who are not professional soldiers. This one act will (and has) sullied the reputation of the US for a very long time. The act was so horrific that it changed the history of warfare. Einstein's greatest regret in life was the recommendation to FDR that this bomb could be built. I supposed someone had to do it because you don't know what the limits are until you experience them.

Actually there is little to be proud from either side. The Brits had been bombing civilians for years. The German rockets burned down half of London. The Allies' inferno at Dresden fried anyone who escaped the blasts. The Soviets raped 2 million German women. The Germans incinerated 5 million Jews and other nationalities. Even the Croats took advantage of the situation and killed 250,000 Serb civilians in concentration camps. And that's just the European 'theater'.

Unbelievable numbers. Horrific. Nothing comes close. Not the Black Plague. Not the Napoleonic Wars. Not Genghiz Khan. Not the Roman legions. The world will never see anything like it again. Our fathers lived through a rare time in history.

David K - 6-9-2013 at 02:06 AM

I think anyone who attacks the United States (or any other freedom loving people) should have the fear of such magnitude to deter them from ever getting any ideas to attack us.

Our current method of wanting everyone to like us, as we kiss their a**es, to show our compassion for their murderous beliefs, isn't doing so well. The atom bomb was so horrible, that 56 years passed before our soil was the scene of a foreign attack, and not by any one aggressor nation, but by a religious group.

TMW - 6-9-2013 at 10:22 AM

From Wikipedia:

The key development for the bombing of Japan was the B-29 bomber plane, which had an operational range of 3,250 nautical miles (6,019 km) and was capable of attacking at high altitude above 30,000 feet (9 km) where enemy defenses were very weak. Almost 90% of the bombs dropped on the home islands of Japan were delivered by this type of bomber. Once Allied ground forces had captured islands sufficiently close to Japan, airfields were built on those islands (particularly Saipan and Tinian) and B-29s could reach Japan for bombing missions.

The initial raids were carried out by the Twentieth Air Force operating out of mainland China in Operation Matterhorn under XX Bomber Command, but these could not reach Tokyo. Operations from the Northern Mariana Islands commenced in November 1944 after the XXI Bomber Command was activated there.[5] The B-29s of XX Bomber Command were transferred to XXI Bomber Command in the spring of 1945 and based on Guam.[citation needed]

The high altitude bombing attacks using general purpose bombs were observed to be ineffective by USAAF leaders. Changing their tactics to expand the coverage and increase the damage, Curtis LeMay ordered the bombers to fly lower (4,500–8,000 ft, 1,400–2,400 m) and drop incendiary bombs to burn Japan's vulnerable wood-and-paper buildings.[6] The first such raid was in February 1945 when 174 B-29s destroyed around one square mile (3 km²) of Tokyo. The next month, 334 B-29s took off to raid on the night of 9–10 March ("Operation Meetinghouse"),[7] with 279 of them dropping around 1,700 tons of bombs. Fourteen B-29s were lost.[8] Approximately 16 square miles (41 km2) of the city were destroyed and some 100,000 people are estimated to have died in the resulting firestorm, more immediate deaths than either of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.[9][10] The US Strategic Bombing Survey later estimated that nearly 88,000 people died in this one raid, 41,000 were injured, and over a million residents lost their homes. The Tokyo Fire Department estimated a higher toll: 97,000 killed and 125,000 wounded. The Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department established a figure of 124,711 casualties including both killed and wounded and 286,358 buildings and homes destroyed. Richard Rhodes, historian, put deaths at over 100,000, injuries at a million and homeless residents at a million.[11] These casualty and damage figures could be low; Mark Selden wrote in Japan Focus:

The figure of roughly 100,000 deaths, provided by Japanese and American authorities, both of whom may have had reasons of their own for minimizing the death toll, seems to me arguably low in light of population density, wind conditions, and survivors' accounts. With an average of 103,000 inhabitants per square mile (396 people per hectare) and peak levels as high as 135,000 per square mile (521 people per hectare), the highest density of any industrial city in the world, and with firefighting measures ludicrously inadequate to the task, 15.8 square miles (41 km2) of Tokyo were destroyed on a night when fierce winds whipped the flames and walls of fire blocked tens of thousands fleeing for their lives. An estimated 1.5 million people lived in the burned out areas.[12]

The destruction and damage were greatest in the parts of the city to the east of the Imperial Palace.[citation needed] Over 50% of Tokyo was destroyed by the end of World War II.[citation needed] The Operation Meetinghouse firebombing of Tokyo on the night of 9/10 March 1945 was the single deadliest air raid of World War II;[2] greater than Dresden,[13] Hiroshima, or Nagasaki as single events.[14][15]

Skipjack Joe - 6-9-2013 at 11:19 AM

More from Wikipedia:

Militarily unnecessary

Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in his memoir The White House Years:

In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."[100]

Other U.S. military officers who disagreed with the necessity of the bombings include General of the Army Douglas MacArthur,[101][102] Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy (the Chief of Staff to the President), Brigadier General Carter Clarke (the military intelligence officer who prepared intercepted Japanese cables for U.S. officials), and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet.

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.[93]

The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman.[103]

bajaguy - 6-9-2013 at 05:27 PM

Since this post degenerated from remembering June 6, 1944 and honoring those of the Greatest Generation to the uncalled for remarks regarding our actions to end the war in the Pacific I am adding the following........

US Military.jpg - 46kB

bajadogs - 6-9-2013 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I think anyone who attacks the United States (or any other freedom loving people) should have the fear of such magnitude to deter them from ever getting any ideas to attack us.

I'm pretty sure that is how most countries feel. Especially Iraq, when we invaded when there was no threat. Hmmm...

Shock and Awe = terrorism by definition

Opinions are Like ......................

MrBillM - 6-9-2013 at 07:02 PM

Well, you KNOW.

There are as many (and more) contemporary authoritative opinions favoring the Atomic solution and it's a long done deal.

ANYBODY who wants to feel bad about it is free and welcome to do so.

As others (like me) can think of them as whimpering nincompoops.

That's one of the GREAT things about the Greatest country EVER.

BTW, Curtis LeMay can be added to those who didn't favor the Nuclear option.

Of course, HE championed the idea of continued Fire-Bombing until nothing but ashes and crispy-critters were left on the Japanese mainland.

Which was rejected as too costly and lengthy.

The A-Bomb was the most cost-effective in every way.

PERFECT for the land of Capitalism and Free-Enterprise.

A Look at the Lighter side (courtesy of Perry Como):

"..........Well, a hubba, hubba, hubba, I just got back
Well, a hubba, hubba, hubba, let’s shoot some breeze
Say, whatever happened to the Japanese.

Hmm, a hubba, hubba, hubba, haven’t you heard?
A hubba, hubba, hubba, slip me the word
I got it from a guy who was in the kno’
It was mighty smoky over Tokyo

A friend of mine in a B-29 dropped another load for luck

As he flew away, he was heard to say
A hubba, hubba, hubba, yuk, yuk ............"