BajaNomad - Dual Nationality

Dual Nationality

measomsan - 6-9-2013 at 09:00 AM

I will be able if I choose to get my Mexico citizenship. I know what I have to do.

Looking on the US Gov site I am not sure if it really jeopardizes loosing my US one. Been on the site and seems a bit vage.

Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship

So if I do not have the intention to give up my US ...do i lose it?

Any Nomads carry two passports?

monoloco - 6-9-2013 at 09:03 AM

No

elizabeth - 6-9-2013 at 09:18 AM

There is a presumption that you do not intend to relinquish US citizenship when acquiring Mexican citizenship...no worries!

BajaBlanca - 6-9-2013 at 09:25 AM

Then why would the words DUAL NATIONAL exist?

I am a triple national......born in USA, Brazilian and Mexican.

Les is born in Poland, British and soon to be Mexican.

measomsan - 6-9-2013 at 09:25 AM

Thanks for the feed back

bajacalifornian - 6-9-2013 at 09:34 AM

I carry two. U.S. rufuses to acknowlege my Mexican.

shari - 6-9-2013 at 10:45 AM

I have a Mexican and Canadian passport. In Canada you have to apply to give up your citizenship so if you dont...you keep your canuckness.

I was told to use my mexican passport when in Mexico and Canadian while traveling. Apparently one of the only drawbacks is that if you get into trouble in Mexico and are a citizen...you cant call the USA consulate for help.

[Edited on 6-9-2013 by shari]

DENNIS - 6-9-2013 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajacalifornian
I carry two. U.S. rufuses to acknowlege my Mexican.

What would be the advantage if they did?

DENNIS - 6-9-2013 at 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
if you get into trouble in Mexico and are a citizen...you cant call the USA consulate for help.

If a Yank gets jambed up in Mexico and calls the US Consulate, that's a ticket out of the country anyway......guilty or not.

Lee - 6-9-2013 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Apparently one of the only drawbacks is that if you get into trouble in Mexico and are a citizen...you cant call the USA consulate for help.

If I had dual and got in trouble, I'd use the passport that would be getting me out of trouble.

On the other hand, MX law might be more lenient SOB if viewed as MX citizen.

monoloco - 6-9-2013 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I have a Mexican and Canadian passport. In Canada you have to apply to give up your citizenship so if you dont...you keep your canuckness.

[Edited on 6-9-2013 by shari]

It's the same in the US, you have to also pay a percentage of your assets as an exit tax.

DaliDali - 6-9-2013 at 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
if you get into trouble in Mexico and are a citizen...you cant call the USA consulate for help.

If a Yank gets jambed up in Mexico and calls the US Consulate, that's a ticket out of the country anyway......guilty or not.

How is it that a call to the US Consulate or Embassy would be a ticket out of MX?.......

DENNIS - 6-9-2013 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

If a Yank gets jambed up in Mexico and calls the US Consulate, that's a ticket out of the country anyway......guilty or not.

How is it that a call to the US Consulate or Embassy would be a ticket out of MX?.......

It's just the way it works, legal, logical, nice or not. Local police agencies don't appreciate foreigners bringing in the big guns. It calls too much attention to their methods. So, if you want to make an international case out of anything, they see it as an in-your-face challenge, and if there's no real reason for deportation, they'll make one up. They don't need reasons.

Or....do you really think we have rights? :lol:

bajaguy - 6-9-2013 at 12:35 PM

Under the protocols of Article 36, paragraph 1, of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963 if a Foreign National is arrested, the arresting agency has a duty to notify the Embassy or nearest consulate of the detainee/arrestees home country without delay..............

Further, Article VI of the Consular Convention between the United States of America and the United Mexican States (the “Bilateral Consular Convention”) provides in pertinent part:

1. Consular officers of either High Contracting Party may, ...
address the authorities, National, State, Provincial or
Municipal, for the purpose of protecting the nationals of
the State ... in the enjoyment of rights accruing by treaty or
otherwise... . Failure upon the part of the proper
authorities to grant redress or to accord protection may
justify interposition through the diplomatic channel ...

2. Consular officers shall ... have the right:
* * *
(d) to assist the nationals ... in proceedings before or
relations with authorities of the State.
3. Nationals of either High Contracting Party shall have the
right at all times to communicate with the consular
officers of their country.

In other words, foreign nationals have the right, at all times, to communicate with consular officials.

The calling of a consular official is NOT a "get out of jail free" card

Bob H - 6-9-2013 at 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
In Canada you have to apply to give up your citizenship so if you dont...you keep your canuckness.

I love the word 'canuckness' Shari !!

DENNIS - 6-9-2013 at 12:43 PM

The arresting agency does call the consulate, but all detainees aren't arrested and if during their time in custody they insist on calling the Consulate, they should have their bags packed because they're as good as gone.

I've been deported, and in the process, got the full scoop from those carrying the keys. I'm not just making up this sheit.

DavidE - 6-9-2013 at 12:47 PM

Don't need to carry a pasaporte Mexicano. I use my IFE card, and everyone recognizes and accepts it. Puestos de Controles, ADUANA, etc.

Bomberro - 6-9-2013 at 12:53 PM

Just to clear up some terminology, the USA does not recognize "dual citizenship" with Mexico. We were given a short lesson at the border crossing by one of the US Agents. You can gain Mexican Citizenship, however, it does not remove your US Citizenship. If you go to the US Consulate and renounce your US Citizenship, then you are no longer an American. You would need to get a visa to enter the USA. The State Department stated some time ago that swearing citizenship in say Mexico does not take away your US. This is for US people living in other places and where they gain an advantage in property ownership or other things that are of a benefit to the US Citizen. Swearing an oath of citizenship could have a conflict with some sensitive positions in government. Hope this helps.

DaliDali - 6-9-2013 at 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

If a Yank gets jambed up in Mexico and calls the US Consulate, that's a ticket out of the country anyway......guilty or not.

How is it that a call to the US Consulate or Embassy would be a ticket out of MX?.......

Can you cite a specific example where a US citizen has called the US Embassy or consulate and then suffered the wrath of a local police agency?

DENNIS - 6-9-2013 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
Can you cite a specific example where a US citizen has called the US Embassy or consulate and then suffered the wrath of a local police agency?

I could if I had to, but I don't, so I won't. I refrain from taking quizzes on Sunday.

BajaBlanca - 6-9-2013 at 05:00 PM

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Bomberro, i agree with all ypur statements except that the US does not recognize dual nationality! See the link to the state dept. notice above.

CortezBlue - 6-9-2013 at 08:41 PM

I am hearing more an more folks in Mexico that applied for Mexican citizenship, received it, and getting, shall we say, uncomfortable issues regarding getting a foreign citizenship and not being naturally born or a child of a natural born Mexicano

I am in the same position and I can get. My citizenship, but decided to wait til the fall when we see what happens with Article 27 and the Mexican senate

shari - 6-9-2013 at 09:16 PM

the way I heard it is that if you get your mexican citizenship...you are Mexican while you are in Mexico....and american in the states...so if you get in trouble in Mexico...you get dealt with like a Mexican and the US consulate cannot aid you...wonder if that in fact happens? would the consulate say sorry no can do if you call for help?

Bomberro - 6-10-2013 at 07:04 AM

Shari we were told that while in Mexico we would be giving up our US protections just before we took the oath to become Mexicans. We had not read the same notice that Baja Banca posted and if we had read this sentence, " In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship." We might have never gone through the process. We of course had no intention of ever giving up our US Citizenship, still, the wording of that sentence is scary to say the least. The Border Patrol Agent that told us the United States does not recognize 'dual citizenship' was not really correct, but, its a matter of what the dual part means and for sure you lose some of the consulate protections while in Mexico. The two countries legal systems are drastically different.

DENNIS - 6-10-2013 at 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

I am in the same position and I can get. My citizenship, but decided to wait til the fall when we see what happens with Article 27 and the Mexican senate

I still haven't heard one good argument as to why? Why would anyone go through all of this if it isn't necessary? To save money on taxes?
Actually, I think most who would go through all of this do it because they think it's "Cool", when in actuality, I believe it's because many are trying to be something they're not, nor ever will be.....Mexican.

DaliDali - 6-10-2013 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
the way I heard it is that if you get your mexican citizenship...you are Mexican while you are in Mexico....and american in the states...so if you get in trouble in Mexico...you get dealt with like a Mexican and the US consulate cannot aid you...wonder if that in fact happens? would the consulate say sorry no can do if you call for help?

If a person calls the US Embassy for help in any form......would they even know you hold Mexican citizenship as well as US?

On that call for help, if you gave your US passport number, would it ding the MX system and blink flashing red lights that you hold MX citizenship as well?

DaliDali - 6-10-2013 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

I am in the same position and I can get. My citizenship, but decided to wait til the fall when we see what happens with Article 27 and the Mexican senate

I do believe a benefit of holding MX citizenship would be to throw away the land trust and get a real deed.
But that might be now moot, if the current legislation to change this is implemented.
However, to your way of thinking....this will never happen.

DENNIS - 6-10-2013 at 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
However, to your way of thinking....this will never happen.

Well....I won't be holding my breath. You , however, have my full support should you decide to do so.

BajaBlanca - 6-10-2013 at 03:44 PM

In my case, I wanted to become a citizen for many reasons...I am very involved in the community and it meant a lot to the Mexicans that I became a citizen. Heck, one of the first things I did was vote.

Yes, land was put in my name, much less expensive than fideicomisos all over the place.

and I wanted to have the backyard school to teach English - it took all of 30 minutes as a citizen to do this in La Paz. And it was free. Have you any idea of the diffuculty, time and expense Les went to to set up the corporation for the B&B???? Don't even go there.

Being that I have been a dual national since I was born, I see no big deal. If I am in Brazil, I sure better be obeying the law. If I am in Mexico, I sure better be obeying the law. and it goes without saying that the same is true for me in the U.S. of A.

Lee - 6-10-2013 at 04:05 PM

Ask those who've become nationals and they might say they're proud to be a MX citizen. I've thought about it for a long time and sure it's cool, to me, but I think I'd feel a connection as a citizen that I don't feel now. I bet Shari's proud, and Juan's proud of her too. Bet Blanca's proud. I like it.

If I were to spend all or most of my time in MX, I'd be more motivated. Why does anyone want to be a citizen anywhere?

DaliDali - 6-10-2013 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
However, to your way of thinking....this will never happen.

Well....I won't be holding my breath. You , however, have my full support should you decide to do so.

Have you ever considered Cynicalstan for citizenship?
Oh wait......Negativesville might suit you better.

DENNIS - 6-10-2013 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
Oh wait......Negativesville might suit you better.

Really??? What are the advantages??

Bomberro - 6-10-2013 at 05:47 PM

We changed to an escritura several years ago and just sold the home of 20 years. We paid no taxes. Our original Fidio was a joke on the price of purchase price, it showed 1,000 us as the price! We would have been looking a a very large capitol gains tax. We saved all those FM fees, Fido fees, driving to La Paz at least twice for the FM's, our water bill was discounted 50%, our already low property taxes the same. No forms to fill out when flying out, walk past all the tourists comming in and flash the Mexican Passport at the Nationals only booth. We gained a bit of respect from our many Mexicans friends, hola Piasano! Each trip down and back no tourist fees to pay. I have not tried to add it all up as we did our citizenship about 7 years ago. The flustrations we saved were immense!

chuckie - 6-10-2013 at 06:16 PM

Dennis? It's Monday Mon....

DENNIS - 6-10-2013 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Dennis? It's Monday Mon....

OhhhmyyyGAwwwwd....you're right, Chuckie. Thanks for reminding me. :biggrin: