BajaNomad - Plastic Bags Litter Seafloor

Plastic Bags Litter Seafloor

woody with a view - 6-9-2013 at 10:55 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/plastic-bags-litter-seafloor-140008974...

You know what's becoming more common than fish in the sea? Plastic bags.

Researchers at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute surveyed underwater video footage. They saw that plastic bags have become ubiquitous on the seafloor off the U.S. West Coast—even as far away as Hawaii.

The institute's robot subs collected the videos over the last 22 years, mostly in and around Monterey Bay but also further afield. Technicians noted whenever it showed objects or animals.

The footage spanned shallow seafloors of 25 meters or so and areas nearly 4,000 meters deep. And in all too much of Monterey Bay, they found trash.

A full third of the trash was various types of plastic. The second most common object: metal cans. The rest of the trash was a mix of lost fishing equipment and rope, glass bottles, paper, cloth, even tires. The trash preferentially accumulates on steep, rocky slopes, perhaps because ocean currents drop it there.

And all that garbage is going to stick around. The microbes that could otherwise break down plastic bags or metal cans do not thrive in these deep, cold, dark waters. So remember, we may throw things away—but that doesn’t mean that they go away.

—David Biello

:no:

Skipjack Joe - 6-9-2013 at 11:04 AM

This reminds me of a fishing guide out of Loreto who told me that discarding a bottle of Pacifico was fine as long as you filled it up with water and let it sink offshore. We were off Carmen at the time.

Bubba - 6-9-2013 at 11:08 AM

I live on the Central Coast and plastic bags were banned in SLO county about a year ago. I actually like it even though I sometimes forget to bring my cloth bags into the market and end up paying 10 cents for a paper bag.

A Deep Problem

MrBillM - 6-9-2013 at 07:38 PM

It doesn't sound that serious.

".............The microbes that could otherwise break down plastic bags or metal cans do not thrive in these deep, cold, dark waters............."

As long as those Microbes do their job in the shallower water.

Awhile back, Stater Bros. tried a one-day experiment where they removed the Plastic Bags and told the customers only paper was available.

The results were ugly.

One checker I know said "I hope to God that they NEVER do that again".

DaliDali - 6-9-2013 at 08:22 PM

I was told by a marine biologist, that an aluminum beer or soda can will disintegrate into nothing in short order in the saltwater environment.

Just look at some aluminum boats.......and the effects of saltwater on them.
Aluminum cans are paper thin in comparison.

One just has to break that can open so it sinks.
So in this case, deep or shallow or mid depths......saltwater is saltwater.
No microbes involved.....just pure chemistry.

mtgoat666 - 6-9-2013 at 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
I was told by a marine biologist, that an aluminum beer or soda can will disintegrate into nothing in short order in the saltwater environment.

Just look at some aluminum boats.......and the effects of saltwater on them.
Aluminum cans are paper thin in comparison.

One just has to break that can open so it sinks.
So in this case, deep or shallow or mid depths......saltwater is saltwater.
No microbes involved.....just pure chemistry.

Well, then that makes it OK! Keep on littering!

Happy Zero Plastic Week

windgrrl - 6-9-2013 at 08:47 PM

The Majestic Plastic Bag

Is it possible to live one week without using single-use plastic items?

Zero Plastic Week (USA)

Bubba - 6-9-2013 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
It doesn't sound that serious.

".............The microbes that could otherwise break down plastic bags or metal cans do not thrive in these deep, cold, dark waters............."

As long as those Microbes do their job in the shallower water.

Awhile back, Stater Bros. tried a one-day experiment where they removed the Plastic Bags and told the customers only paper was available.

The results were ugly.

One checker I know said "I hope to God that they NEVER do that again".

Stater Bros is also slowly going out of business. As stated by another poster, then keep on littering I'm actually very happy that they BANNED these things on the Central Coast. It's the kind of crap stuck in the trees I used to see here and still see in Baja. It's a good thing they are no longer allowed here Mr Bill M.

willardguy - 6-9-2013 at 08:51 PM

Time taken for objects to dissolve at sea
Paper bus ticket 2-4 weeks
Cotton cloth 1-5 months
Rope 3-14 months
Woollen cloth 1 year
Painted wood 13 years
Tin can 100 years
Aluminium can 200-500 years
Plastic bottle 450 years

Source: Hellenic Marine Environment Protection Association (HELMEPA)

Skipjack Joe - 6-9-2013 at 09:02 PM

It's all Greek to me:

willardguy - 6-9-2013 at 09:09 PM

damn paper bus tickets! :mad:

DaliDali - 6-10-2013 at 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Well, then that makes it OK! Keep on littering!

And you can keep on being an idiot because NO where does it say that I littered!!

beachbum1A - 6-10-2013 at 07:05 AM

No matter where you travel, live your life as if you were camping in the wild - don't leave anything behind, take it all back with you.

Barry A. - 6-10-2013 at 07:18 AM

Aside from any actual physical "damage" litter may, or may not do, just the esthetics of SEEING trash is what saddens and offends me, both on top or under the water, or on land--------always has even as a kid.

It is so easy to pick up your trash (& others) and dispose of it properly it always amazes me that others don't do it. (sigh)

We seldom use plastic bags, and when we do we religiously recycle them. We have several cloth grocery bags permanently in each vehicle, and my wife carries 2 "chico bags" in her purse. The 'Chico bags' are great!!! http://www.chicobag.com/category/original

Barry

DENNIS - 6-10-2013 at 07:29 AM

Isn't this issue being addressed [in a way] here?

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=67137

When they BAN Plastic Grocery Bags .....................

MrBillM - 6-10-2013 at 02:15 PM

I'll simply buy Plastic Bags by the box and use them. They'd still be a bargain.

Doing so will be worthwhile given how many Liberals it will irritate.

I AM properly disposing of my Paper Bus tickets, though.

DaliDali - 6-10-2013 at 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I'll simply buy Plastic Bags by the box and use them. They'd still be a bargain.

Doing so will be worthwhile given how many Liberals it will irritate.

I AM properly disposing of my Paper Bus tickets, though.

How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

DENNIS - 6-10-2013 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

partisan issue?

neilm81301 - 6-10-2013 at 02:44 PM

I'm not ready to say plastic bags don't exist, or aren't manmade...<G>

Neil

"I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?"

Barry A. - 6-10-2013 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

No, I hope not, Dennis. I am very conservative politically, but I hate plastic bags and the damage they do, and it is sooooo avoidable with a tiny bit of effort.

Also, I don't doubt "Climate Change" for a second-----only the myth that we can do anything significant about it.

Political labels are soooo misleading.

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 6-10-2013 at 03:25 PM

It's the law here. No groceries are bagged in plastic any longer and you're charge 10 cents for a paper bag, going up to 25 cents. You're encouraged to bring your cloth bag.

For me the worst thing about bags, plastic or paper, was the mess they created at home. It seemed as though I was continually gathering them to throw out. There was more refuse from the bags than the trash (I'm exaggerating).

DaliDali - 6-10-2013 at 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

It's Monday.....I don't answer quizzes on a Monday.

DENNIS - 6-11-2013 at 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

It's Monday.....I don't answer quizzes on a Monday.

OK.....how about today, Tuesday?

Remedial Remedies

MrBillM - 6-11-2013 at 08:24 AM

Perhaps those in the Environmentally-Conscious community could launch a plan to send their members down into the deep to retrieve all of that plastic litter.

If things went awry, NO PROBLEMA, since the unfortunate participants would be Biodegradable and serve as nourishment for the Sea-Life.

Worth a Try ?

DaliDali - 6-11-2013 at 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

It's Monday.....I don't answer quizzes on a Monday.

OK.....how about today, Tuesday?

Sure Dennis.......as soon and you answer the question I posed to you on Sunday and you begged off due to it being Sunday.

DENNIS - 6-11-2013 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

It's Monday.....I don't answer quizzes on a Monday.

OK.....how about today, Tuesday?

Sure Dennis.......as soon and you answer the question I posed to you on Sunday and you begged off due to it being Sunday.

I'm a very spiritual person. Every day, to me, is Sunday. :biggrin:

Mexitron - 6-11-2013 at 11:37 AM

No more plastic bags in Long Beach either---a pain once in a while (like remembering to bring bags to Home Depot) but mostly no big deal. I'm all for it except we're going to run out of bags for the dogs!

DENNIS - 6-11-2013 at 11:42 AM

I suppose if we go back to paper, it'll only be a matter of time before someone starts crying about the dwindling forests.
What the world really needs is a plastic bag that will disintegrate in short time.

wessongroup - 6-11-2013 at 12:02 PM

Gee, how about "box boys" ...... seemed to remember those from my youth

DENNIS - 6-11-2013 at 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Gee, how about "box boys" ...... seemed to remember those from my youth

Me too, Wiley. Started my working life as a box boy at Alpha Beta. Rarely used boxes though. It was a bag job.

Barry A. - 6-11-2013 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Gee, how about "box boys" ...... seemed to remember those from my youth

Me too, Wiley. Started my working life as a box boy at Alpha Beta. Rarely used boxes though. It was a bag job.

And me too, Dennis and Wiley, at a private grocery store. And, I loved the money at the time (I thought I was rich---14 years old, and in the 1% in my mind).

Barry

wessongroup - 6-11-2013 at 10:38 PM

Hey, if used properly trash can be functional ......

not sure about PP (Pila Pressure)

on the "bags" hell, put a nickel deposit on them, and they will disappear ......

That was something else one did back in the day, good money ...... just laying on the ground .... might have the same effect even though pickings got .... few and far between, as I recall :lol:

[Edited on 6-12-2013 by wessongroup]

Barry

Dennis .... sorry could only find

[Edited on 6-12-2013 by wessongroup]

BajaLuna - 6-11-2013 at 11:33 PM

Is good earth stewardship a partisan/political thing? Plastic bags are just plain awful. But paper bags are just as bad, and when you live in a place that has LOTS of trees and see the miles and miles of clear-cuts and bare hills, makes ya wonder how long it will be before there isn't any more trees to cut down to wipe your butt or build shelter. Remember, we need trees to breathe and to create a home for the animals we eat! They just can't keep up with planting what they are cutting down, that's a fact. I pass logging trucks day in and day out where I live. But for a lot of people who live other places who don't see this on a regular basis, logging trucks in their neighborhoods, its out of sight out of mind how bad it truly is with what they are having to cut down in order to supply for the masses. What's a person to do?, plastic nor paper..none of it is a good choice... cotton bags, that's at least a renewable resource that is farmed and takes quicker to grow. Plastic bags need to be banned everywhere and in my mind, since I live in those forests, paper bags too! OH the horror! I think we're better than this, and can find new and exciting ways to avoid plastic bags!

David K - 6-12-2013 at 12:48 AM

The bag isn't 'bad', who just empties them the tosses it out into the street to blow away? Incinerate them with other burnable trash or place in the trash and allow the professionals to process them. Why are they all over the countryside if not for irresponsible users of them?

dizzyspots - 6-12-2013 at 06:02 AM

geez...we learned this lesson about 50 YEARS ago..as a Boy Scout....take out your trash AND any other crap found around the campsite...fast forward to today...we still pickup other peoples junk along the 4wd trails..its not that tough folks...just laziness!

DENNIS - 6-12-2013 at 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Dennis .... sorry could only find

Wonderful memory, Wiley, thanks. I worked hard at Alpha Beta and bought my beer at Market Basket when Coors was $1.25 a sixpak.
Thems was the days.

.

[Edited on 6-12-2013 by DENNIS]

Bubba - 6-12-2013 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Dennis .... sorry could only find

Wonderful memory, Wiley, thanks. I worked hard at Alpha Beta and bought my beer at Market Basket when Coors was $1.25 a sixpak.
Thems was the days.

Did the Coors cans have the two little tabs on top that you pushed in to drink?

.

[Edited on 6-12-2013 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 6-12-2013 at 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba

Did the Coors cans have the two little tabs on top that you pushed in to drink?

I've been trying to recall those, but can't seem to. Maybe they were a regional experiment.

I do recall the pull-tabs.

Bubba - 6-12-2013 at 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba

Did the Coors cans have the two little tabs on top that you pushed in to drink?

I've been trying to recall those, but can't seem to. Maybe they were a regional experiment.

I do recall the pull-tabs.

They were on the East Coast mid 70's. One hole was about about the size of a nickel to drink from, the other about the size of a dime for air.

willardguy - 6-12-2013 at 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba

Did the Coors cans have the two little tabs on top that you pushed in to drink?

I've been trying to recall those, but can't seem to. Maybe they were a regional experiment.

I do recall the pull-tabs.

They were on the East Coast mid 70's. One hole was about about the size of a nickel to drink from, the other about the size of a dime for air.

in the 60's every six pack of coors bottles came with a bottle opener

Barry A. - 6-12-2013 at 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaLuna
Is good earth stewardship a partisan/political thing? Plastic bags are just plain awful. But paper bags are just as bad, and when you live in a place that has LOTS of trees and see the miles and miles of clear-cuts and bare hills, makes ya wonder how long it will be before there isn't any more trees to cut down to wipe your butt or build shelter. Remember, we need trees to breathe and to create a home for the animals we eat! They just can't keep up with planting what they are cutting down, that's a fact. I pass logging trucks day in and day out where I live. But for a lot of people who live other places who don't see this on a regular basis, logging trucks in their neighborhoods, its out of sight out of mind how bad it truly is with what they are having to cut down in order to supply for the masses. What's a person to do?, plastic nor paper..none of it is a good choice... cotton bags, that's at least a renewable resource that is farmed and takes quicker to grow. Plastic bags need to be banned everywhere and in my mind, since I live in those forests, paper bags too! OH the horror! I think we're better than this, and can find new and exciting ways to avoid plastic bags!

As a student of History, especially western USA history, I have often been curious about historical pictures taken back in the 1800's, most of which show an incredible LACK of trees as compared with today in the same sites.

Barry

willardguy - 6-12-2013 at 09:39 AM

we need to put an end to these logging practices! (well, right after my house is done) :lol:

wessongroup - 6-12-2013 at 10:13 AM

Remember $1.25 six-packs of Coors, hated that "punch hole" thingy they came out with ......but, I was able to "work around" it most of the time ....

And no JOe, I didn't develop callouses from pulling and punching beer cans openers :biggrin:

willardguy - 6-12-2013 at 10:22 AM

remember when they first came out they gave away those little plastic openers?

Passing on the Paper

MrBillM - 6-12-2013 at 10:40 AM

How about we go back to Lambskin ?

Papyrus ?

Stone Tablets ?

OK, the last two wouldn't work well for bagging, I guess.

Not sure about the first.

DENNIS - 6-12-2013 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

In the 60's every six pack of coors bottles came with a bottle opener

I don't remember that either, but who bought a sixpak when a full case only cost five bucks?

willardguy - 6-12-2013 at 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

In the 60's every six pack of coors bottles came with a bottle opener

I don't remember that either, but who bought a sixpak when a full case only cost five bucks?

how true! hey check your u2u

805gregg - 6-13-2013 at 06:13 PM

More common than fish because we have caught and eaten all the fish

A More Important Question is ...........

MrBillM - 6-13-2013 at 07:17 PM

WHO here would admit to drinking Coors ?

Which reminds me of ................

Back in the '70s, I was having dinner with wife and friends (two other couples) at the San Gorgonio Inn and one friend, when told that they didn't have his favorite, but did have Coors said "Coors ? I don't see no **** (racial comment) in here".

An intemperate remark which (unfortunately) brought most in the area to stare at him and us.

STILL ................It is difficult to understand.

willardguy - 6-13-2013 at 07:27 PM

I would. bring it on bill.

DENNIS - 6-14-2013 at 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
WHO here would admit to drinking Coors ?

I guess that would be ME. That was fifty years ago and I liked Coors , and I would probably like it today. I'm not so much into the newer, heavier, more complex beverages.
Besides.......fifty years back, the availability was limited.

I went to the new Sam's Club in Ensenada the other day, and Sam sells Coors. Maybe I'll buy a truck load.

COORS

J.P. - 6-14-2013 at 08:44 AM

Grew up in the Panhandle of Texas drinking COORS then moved to south Texas no Coors for a lot of years. When they got Coors down that far couldn't stand that Crap. :lol:

MMc - 6-14-2013 at 10:57 AM

We've been using or own bags for over 20 years. I have always disliked things that you only use once. I read somewhere that when Gillette was just out of college and working for Crown Cork and Seal, he learned that a single use item that was massed produced cheaply was the best way to make a fortune. It seems to have worked for him. The landfills are mostly single use items. The largest man made thing is the dump for New York. We as Americans love our convenience, but it does have a price.
Both Coors and Bud are just headaches in a can. IMHO.

willardguy - 6-14-2013 at 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.
Grew up in the Panhandle of Texas drinking COORS then moved to south Texas no Coors for a lot of years. When they got Coors down that far couldn't stand that Crap. :lol:

is that because you were blessed with shiner bock?

wessongroup - 6-14-2013 at 11:18 AM

"Coors and Bud are just headaches in a can"

One must use reasonable judgement when consuming ..... some of the time

Agree with the convenience thought, 100%

IT's the WATER !

MrBillM - 6-14-2013 at 02:37 PM

Or, so they used to say.

And, to be fair, Coors DID taste like it had been watered down.

It was sort of the forerunner of Light Beer before there WAS Light Beer.

Which is another example of the decline of Civilization.

Could be worse, though.

Shandy comes to mind. Knowing what that is keeps me from ever trying it.

Speaking of the days when Coors wasn't available East of wherever, back when I used to take the Ex to visit her family in the Peach State, we always found ourselves smuggling cases of Coors at their request.

I always said that it would be Ironic (and infuriating) to get busted for hauling a Beer that I wouldn't drink myself.

Well, almost time for a daily Heineken or Steinlager.

Always the big decision of the afternoon.

Barry A. - 6-14-2013 at 02:41 PM

TRADER JOE'S has some interesting and sorta-German/Dutch exotic beers--------might try one of those, and they are cheap!!! Taste good to me, but my taste in beers is kinda strange, I'm told.

(my favorite, Negra Modelo)

Barry

J.P. - 6-14-2013 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.
Grew up in the Panhandle of Texas drinking COORS then moved to south Texas no Coors for a lot of years. When they got Coors down that far couldn't stand that Crap. :lol:

is that because you were blessed with shiner bock?

In later years I drank nothing but Miller Lite. July 4 this year it will be 28 years since I Quit my life has been better for it.

DENNIS - 6-14-2013 at 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

(my favorite, Negra Modelo)

Barry

Mine too, Barry. Just today, I traded a drafting table, sliding straight-edge and all, for a case of it.

Life is good.

wessongroup - 6-14-2013 at 04:00 PM

Dennis remember only _____ :lol:

Beer and the Good (or Better) Life

MrBillM - 6-14-2013 at 09:12 PM

I've often (very often as I age) thought that there is absolutely NOTHING better in life than that first sip of a fine Beer in the summer.

The key (as in everything) is in moderation.

For some, in the "Can't Stop till they Drop" crowd, it appears that isn't an option.

Too Bad.

msawin - 6-14-2013 at 09:12 PM

Six pac Coors. $1.42 . I was 14 years of age at the 7-11 working my way to fortune and again, I remember [?] $1.42. It was $1.35 plus sales tax.

1972 the year.

willardguy - 6-14-2013 at 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Or, so they used to say.

And, to be fair, Coors DID taste like it had been watered down.

It was sort of the forerunner of Light Beer before there WAS Light Beer.

Which is another example of the decline of Civilization.

Could be worse, though.

Shandy comes to mind. Knowing what that is keeps me from ever trying it.

Speaking of the days when Coors wasn't available East of wherever, back when I used to take the Ex to visit her family in the Peach State, we always found ourselves smuggling cases of Coors at their request.

I always said that it would be Ironic (and infuriating) to get busted for hauling a Beer that I wouldn't drink myself.

Well, almost time for a daily Heineken or Steinlager.

Always the big decision of the afternoon.

so if i understand this correctly, your EX had zero taste in beer OR men? :?:

woody with a view - 6-14-2013 at 09:31 PM

StienGAGGER? WTF? get your lips around a good IPA or even seek out Yellowtail Pale Ale by Ballast Point.... and drink until your dog comes back!

A Lack of Taste ?

MrBillM - 6-14-2013 at 09:41 PM

IF my dear-departed Ex had bad taste, it didn't keep her from tasting.

Setting aside the multitudes she tasted, she managed to fit in SIX Husbands.

As to Beer, however, she didn't.

EVER, while we were a couple.

Once in awhile (VERY rarely), she'd drink a glass of wine.

In later years, I doubt even that. She developed consuming religious fervor in her later years. Which may explain her settling down with number Six.

Or, just fatigue.

vgabndo - 6-14-2013 at 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

I've been studying the railroad boomtown Sisson CA (Mt. Shasta) for right at 40 years. I've specialized in the period before 1925. The culture was pure resource extraction with the "gold" being the timber that lined the tracks through Northern California when the rails connected in 1887. A dozen mills were waiting to ship lumber from Sisson by the time cars were running. Soon there were more. By WWI, two thirds of them had run out of timber and closed.

Here, the forest around Lake Siskiyou looks much the same in 1893. The little house over the Sacramento River in the foreground is for the crew to crap in the river, the second projection is a track for dumping the mill waste and sawdust into the river. These guys were very good at gutting the forest. There were no rules.
More and more mechanized logging continued through the twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties with roads replacing the logging railroads which once crisscrossed much of the north state. The original old growth is virtually gone, and the tree covered hills in your photographs are second and third generation plantations, which all being the same age, seem to carpet the landscape.

I dare say, there is a lot less timber today than before we started logging it.

And none of this is meaningful to the discussion, because we don't do paper pulp around here. Most people I know still do the, "Damn I forgot my canvas bag!" routine, and mean it.

The Past

MrBillM - 6-15-2013 at 07:47 AM

Is said to be a great place to visit, but not live.

All of that past ugliness (to some) has to be weighed against the benefit to society at the time.

Our progress as a nation (or any nation's) has been made with an ecological cost whether it be lumber, gold, oil or ANY other resource necessary to that technological progress and should be accepted and APPRECIATED for the wonderful lifestyle it has enabled us to enjoy.

We owe NO apologies to ANYONE and should NOT feel regret for ANYTHING that facilitated those improvements.

Despite what the Eco-Druids say.

[Edited on 6-15-2013 by MrBillM]

vgabndo - 6-15-2013 at 09:57 AM

"Our progress as a nation (or any nation's) has been made with an ecological cost whether it be lumber, gold, oil or ANY other resource necessary to that technological progress and should be accepted and APPRECIATED for the wonderful lifestyle it has enabled us to enjoy.

We owe NO apologies to ANYONE and should NOT feel regret for ANYTHING that facilitated those improvements."

Giant piles of reeking bull crap Bill. The plunder of the nation's resources, as you so freely accept, resulted in 99% of the nation's wealth being accumulated in just a couple of % of the population. The rest are kept happy enough so they haven't yet risen up and shot the banksters and their paid Christian politicians in the head. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the USA is broke and our Christian government is borrowing money from the communists. Now we have the solar system's largest military machine in order to keep other nations from preventing us from extracting THEIR resources from THEIR land.

As for: "for the wonderful lifestyle it has enabled us to enjoy." At least you were honest enough to not claim that we've done anything meaningful to provide this "wonderful lifestyle" for anyone other than US. Our grandchildren will very likely know hunger and huge social unrest. The Bible says "its yours, use it up" and the delusional are doing their level best to comply.

Resources

MrBillM - 6-15-2013 at 02:42 PM

The very definition of RESOURCE is a supply of something to be USED.

For those Druids who wish to be in Harmony with Mother Earth and Live in Divine Oneness with Nature in a Mountain Cave or a Thatched Hut chewing Grass and eating Berries ..................

Feel Free.

Don't demand that others do the same loony things.

The rest of us can appreciate the wealth of comforts that progress has brought forth.

BTW, to be true to the Ernest Earthly Ethos...............

You should get OFF the Web.

[Edited on 6-15-2013 by MrBillM]

Barry A. - 6-15-2013 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
The very definition of RESOURCE is a supply of something to be USED.

For those Druids who wish to be in Harmony with Mother Earth and Live in Divine Oneness with Nature in a Mountain Cave or a Thatched Hut chewing Grass and eating Berries ..................

Feel Free.

Don't demand that others do the same loony things.

The rest of us can appreciate the wealth of comforts that progress has brought forth.

BTW, to be true to the Ernest Earthly Ethos...............

You should get OFF the Web.

[Edited on 6-15-2013 by MrBillM]

Yes----------Vag might want to read Thor Heyerdahl's (sp?) book of his living in the Marquesas Islands in "tune" with nature--------no thank you-----chilling-----it almost killed him and his girl, and he got the message.

Then read "into the wild" by the great writer who's name I can't remember-----Jon Krackauer (sp?)?? . Not a fun time this 'back to nature' thing. On and on---------

Our time on Earth is short, and tremendously dangerous (tho most don't realize it) so we had better make the best of it while we can with minimal impact on others..

Go for it!!!!

Barry

[Edited on 6-16-2013 by Barry A.]

BajaRat - 6-15-2013 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

WOW! Sooooooo lets get this straight, If we're not on board with your version of progress then we're druids ? You reveal your own
corporate cheerleader brainwashing in your failed attempt to justify unnecessary pollution. This is our planet, our home. I would like to think progress was a way to accomplish the same result with less ecological harm. We will be long gone when our children have to clean up the mess we left them.

BajaRat - 6-15-2013 at 06:54 PM

Its time to re introduce hemp production for sustainable fiber......... so sorry to hurt the man made fiber chemical companies. :lol:

DENNIS - 6-15-2013 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat
Its time to re introduce hemp production for sustainable fiber......... so sorry to hurt the man made fiber chemical companies. :lol:

I heard George Washington's teeth were made from hemp....er.....something like that.

woody with a view - 6-15-2013 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat
Its time to re introduce hemp production for sustainable fiber......... so sorry to hurt the man made fiber chemical companies. :lol:

and the smoke ratio of each seed if they ever gravitate that way..... :light:

BajaRat - 6-15-2013 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat
Its time to re introduce hemp production for sustainable fiber......... so sorry to hurt the man made fiber chemical companies. :lol:

I heard George Washington's teeth were made from hemp....er.....something like that.

I would imagine he grew it........and it grows like a weed :lol:

vgabndo - 6-15-2013 at 07:39 PM

Just to bring it full circle...

Hemp shopping bags. Not likely to be littering the ocean.

Hemp bags.jpg - 45kB

Barry A. - 6-15-2013 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat
Its time to re introduce hemp production for sustainable fiber......... so sorry to hurt the man made fiber chemical companies. :lol:

I heard George Washington's teeth were made from hemp....er.....something like that.

I would imagine he grew it........and it grows like a weed :lol:

?????? Grew his teeth??? How novel. :lol:

Comfortably Feeling at Home on Planet Earth

MrBillM - 6-15-2013 at 09:55 PM

"...........We will be long gone when our children have to clean up the mess we left them. "

I can only say that I certainly HOPE so.

Who wants to be around to hear their whining about it ?

We cleaned up their messes while they grew up.

Seriously, though, have confidence that those kids can get the job done.

Helped by Technology.

In the meantime, USE those resources and .................. ENJOY as you see fit.

I WILL.

[Edited on 6-16-2013 by MrBillM]

Bubba - 6-16-2013 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
"...........We will be long gone when our children have to clean up the mess we left them. "

I can only say that I certainly HOPE so.

Who wants to be around to hear their whining about it ?

We cleaned up their messes while they grew up.

Seriously, though, have confidence that those kids can get the job done.

Helped by Technology.

In the meantime, USE those resources and .................. ENJOY as you see fit.

I WILL.

[Edited on 6-16-2013 by MrBillM]

I'm sure they will get the job done but why not make it a little easier by not littering and everybody picking up after themselves? I live on 10 acres on the Central Coast, that's the way the land is parceled where I'm at, in 10 acre lots and we never see litter any where because myself and all of my neighbors pick up after ourselves. It's actually a very nice sight to drive down the road and not see plastics bags and other debris hanging on fences or laying in the fields.

Good Critters don't Litter

MrBillM - 6-16-2013 at 03:19 PM

I DON'T.

I'm a Conservative in EVERY way, including resources usage.

BUT I DO use and appreciate Plastic Bags, Bottles and the like.

Bubba - 6-16-2013 at 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I DON'T.

I'm a Conservative in EVERY way, including resources usage.

BUT I DO use and appreciate Plastic Bags, Bottles and the like.

Good man! I also appreciate plastic bags, I just didn't realize how much until they were banned in San Luis Obisbo county where I live. I work in Santa Maria, which is Santa Barbara county, they haven't banned plastic bags there yet and I find myself saving all of the plastic bags when I go to Home Depot, OSH, the market etc and then bringing them home to use for picking up dog poop, trash and other things. I suppose it's just another learning curve.

PS. I'm very conservative in other ways also.

[Edited on 6-16-2013 by Bubba]

An authority on Litter

Skipjack Joe - 8-3-2013 at 10:33 AM

[Edited on 8-3-2013 by Skipjack Joe]

DENNIS - 8-3-2013 at 11:07 AM

HappyHappyHappy :lol:

watizname - 8-4-2013 at 08:09 AM

I don't know how to get the links to here, but if you search

www.flixxy.com/convert plastic to oil

there are some interesting things there regarding plastic trash.

DENNIS - 8-4-2013 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by watizname
I don't know how to get the links to here, but if you search

www.flixxy.com/convert plastic to oil

there are some interesting things there regarding plastic trash.

Lessee if this works:

http://www.flixxy.com/convert-plastic-to-oil.htm

watizname - 8-4-2013 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by watizname
I don't know how to get the links to here, but if you search

www.flixxy.com/convert plastic to oil

there are some interesting things there regarding plastic trash.

Lessee if this works:

http://www.flixxy.com/convert-plastic-to-oil.htm

Thasit. Thanks Dennis.
Could something like this be the answer to the floating trash swirls in our oceans? Someone could make a lot of dinero with a floating processor.

Mexitron - 8-4-2013 at 05:22 PM

Looks like an interesting process, let's hope it gets used on a bigger scale.

zforbes - 8-5-2013 at 10:09 AM

Well, I'm perplexed about a sanitary and ecologically sound way to dispose of my garbage in Baja. I can (and do) compost the usual, but what about the stuff that you can't compost (meat, bones, milk products, etc)?

Seems better to me to wrap them in plastic bags than toss them wrapped in decomposing paper bags into outdoor garbage containers. In Asuncion, the garbage may sit for two week or more, hatching maggots, attracting rats and smelling nasty. Dogs and seagulls spread the detritus around town. Definately not healthy!

And as an aside...what is crap lady in the video going to do with her cigarette butt?
:?:

desertcpl - 8-5-2013 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
How much better does it get?.....a bargain AND the chance to irritate liberals in one fell swoop.

I don't know, but has this plastic bag thing become a partisan issue like global warming?

it must be Obama's fault :?:

vgabndo - 8-5-2013 at 03:21 PM

Hi Zoe, maybe it doesn't work in town, but in San Nicolas, bones, meat and dairy waste went over the fence and was replaced by many footprints in the morning. Clean as a whistle!

In reality, how much good can you do when the best taco shop in Asuncion wastes a plastic bag over every serving plates so they don't have to wash them? :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 8-5-2013 at 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zforbes

And as an aside...what is crap lady in the video going to do with her cigarette butt?
:?:

I'll ask. But it's clear that she doesn't want to talk about it.