BajaNomad - Carlos Slim Buys Loreto Bay

Carlos Slim Buys Loreto Bay

Mariz - 8-7-2013 at 05:24 PM

Could be great news for Loreto!

http://localsguidetoloreto.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=327

[Edited on 8-8-2013 by Mariz]

willardguy - 8-7-2013 at 05:53 PM

comes up blank?

[Edited on 8-8-2013 by willardguy]

Article from Sudcaliforniano - translated

bajabeachbabe - 8-7-2013 at 05:57 PM

Here is the confirmation that Carlos Slim is buying Loreto Bay:

Loreto, Baja California Sur. - The Loreto Bay project could pass into the hands of Carso group in the coming weeks in a financial transaction close to fifty million dollars.

According to information collected by this reporter and unofficial sources who currently work in Loreto Bay, Homex Group would be delivering the golf course, hotel and villa areas, all located in the area of Nopoló to face heavy debts keeping with the group INBURSA.

It should be mentioned that during the last two months a significant number of workers Loreto Baja hotel and golf course, have been summoning strike Homex group for late payment and some features of fortnights, a situation which has been maintained under control due to some extensions requested by the employer.

Likewise Carso group, in which the main figure is the wealthy Mexican businessman Carlos Slim, considered the world's richest man and who constantly enjoy the beaches Loreto, has announced on several occasions its intention to invest heavily on the coast of the Sea of Cortez.

For the time within the business sector of Loreto this possibility has raised enormous expectations for the Loreto Bay development relevance and great business opportunities that could be reopened if this operation is specified.

chuckie - 8-7-2013 at 06:02 PM

I love Carlos Slim....without people like him investing money??????

Mariz - 8-7-2013 at 06:13 PM

Fixt the link...sorry.

CortezBlue - 8-7-2013 at 10:01 PM

Hmmm, so rumor has it he has bought up most of the land from Puertocito's down to Bahia Gonzaga. Pretty soon he will own all of Baja

ligui - 8-8-2013 at 05:40 AM

Still have my 7 acres south of loreto for sale . Carlos where are yah ! :rolleyes:

shari - 8-8-2013 at 06:20 AM

Rumors abound all over baja about Sr.Slim buying up land...I also heard that he bought huge amounts of coastline in our barrio too...it's one of the most popular real estate rumors.

ncampion - 8-8-2013 at 06:37 AM

Ah......... where whould these forums be without a few good rumors floating around!!!

vandenberg - 8-8-2013 at 07:15 AM

The property in question is almost 4/10th of a sq mile, enough for a mega resort, including golf course. And his (Slim's) Volaris will bring the customers.

He also has shown interest in the San Francisquito hotel on the Malecon, including the property behind it ( a city block) also large enough for a highrise hotel.

A new Cabo in the making. :biggrin:

tiotomasbcs - 8-8-2013 at 10:20 AM

This is good news? Mega Resorts making good business for whom? Makes my heart sink looking into the future. :rolleyes:

Tio

wessongroup - 8-8-2013 at 10:37 AM

ncampion ....... outstanding Avatar ... :biggrin:

Bobvaso - 8-8-2013 at 10:56 AM

unhuh...and this won't affect the ecosystem by one little tadpole. bring on the glitz, the glamour, and the tv reality shows...yeehaah.

Mariz - 8-8-2013 at 11:41 AM

The economy in Loreto has been tough for some time. Locals and local businesses have been hit very hard. Loreto needs some kind of engine to drive the economy.

When your living on a pension, a quite little town might be perfect. Anyone needing to eek out a living in a small town need some sort of economic growth.

Martyman - 8-8-2013 at 11:52 AM

I've also heard he's bought up Sea of Cortez chunks at Bahia de LA and San Nicolas (north of Loreto)

willardguy - 8-8-2013 at 12:05 PM

well I dont like the sound of this! doesnt senor slim understand that baja coastline is earmarked for rich americans to buy, gate and fence off for themselves? :rolleyes:

Loretana - 8-8-2013 at 01:23 PM

Let's not start knocking the Carlos Slim news just yet.

Slim's yacht "Ostar" has been in and out of Loreto for the past six years at least, and I had a nice conversation with a senior member of his crew one day.

It seems his daughter and grandchildren are fond of the area, and he has bought large swaths of land along the Sea of Cortez, as reported.

So what could be the problem with his companies bailing out Homex?
More development in Nopolo? More jobs for Loretanos?

I really doubt that the richest guy in Mexico wants to turn the Loreto area into an overpriced, overdeveloped tourist trap like Los Cabos.

I look forward to and welcome the flow that may come out of those incredibly deep pockets of his. Loreto needs help, and this is the best news I've heard in a long time. IMHO.

Bajahowodd - 8-8-2013 at 05:03 PM

Carlos Slim Helu, the richest man in the world. Born of Lebanese immigrants to Mexico, once drove a cab in Mexico City.

He has been demonized for buying control of Mexico's telephone system and keeping rates inordinately high, while failing to modernize the technology at a pace anywhere near found in other nations.

Probably true that if he really does buy out the Loreto Bay owners, he could achieve a symbiosis with Volaris flights to Loreto. But then, he'd be helping the Villa Group in doing so.

I guess time will tell.

chuckie - 8-8-2013 at 06:03 PM

Why is it that people want to demonize successful businessmen? jealousy? I think so......I wonder how many employees some of the critics have?

David K - 8-8-2013 at 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Why is it that people want to demonize successful businessmen? jealousy? I think so......I wonder how many employees some of the critics have?

Yeah really... those against big business seem to always be for big government...?

A business gets its money from people who freely buy a product or service. A government gets its money by force... and the source is the wallets of your neighbors and not from the free market purchasing by choice.

Small business growth is the key to employment, wealth and prosperity for the most people...

In a perfect world we would have more small business and less big (or any) government (which produces nothing but takes so much).

willardguy - 8-8-2013 at 07:23 PM

yup, why demonize this guy? start by asking the poor mexican standing in line at the oxxo to buy 100 peso's worth of minutes.

To date, Slim's telecommunications empire has overcharged billions and billions of dollars to Mexicans, especially to the rural poor. Carlos Slim price gouged Mexican customers a total of$13.4 billion each year from 2005 to 2009 for basic telephone and Internet service according to the OECD study.

David K - 8-8-2013 at 07:29 PM

So why is there no competition... or is the big government protecting this big business?

ncampion - 8-8-2013 at 08:45 PM

I believe the Mexican government just recently ruled agains him and is opening up the market.

chuckie - 8-8-2013 at 10:09 PM

Hey Willard guy, any particular I OXXO I should watch? I hadnt really noticed poor mexicans lined up waiting to buy minutes. But maybe I havnt been paying attention. And what is it I am supposed to ask them? Why do you have a cell phone if you cant afford it? Or what exactly? What do you base the "overcharging" on? That revenue is created by people paying for services that they WANT. It is in fact less expensive by about 40% than I was paying in the states. So help me out here, tell me what to ask and where I will find these people. I'll check around town tommorrow for lines and stuff.....Gotta be some right? Everyone has a cell phone..

monoloco - 8-9-2013 at 07:35 AM

It is estimated that the lack of competition in telecommunications costs the Mexican economy about 1.8% of GDP annually.
http://www.ibtimes.com/mexican-monopoly-carlos-slims-telecom...

BajaBlanca - 8-9-2013 at 11:18 AM

Anytime I go to the western union to pay a bill, there are people in line putting on precious pesos on their cell phones ... 50 pesos at a time. Cell phones, by peso standards, seem inordinately high to me.

I sure hope some healthy competition comes into play!

It will be very interesting to see what Slim wd do in Loreto. Being that his kids can go anywhere in the world, literally, the fact that they like Loreto means they like the essence. So it stands to reason that he will leave it just
like it is, right?

[Edited on 8-9-2013 by BajaBlanca]

Mariz - 8-9-2013 at 11:53 AM

I'm not sure of Slim's motivations about Loreto but, investing in the status quo isn't how you become one of the world's richest men.

I just hope that someday soon, those who want to, can find some level of economic success here...cause it's tough today.

MitchMan - 8-9-2013 at 11:57 AM

I truly hope that if Slim does in fact buy Loreto Bay that he take a real and even personal and pointed interest in Loreto as a community. Not sure, but, if he follows thru with the heretofore publicized vision that was ostensibly the original grand vision of Loreto Bay, takes it to conclusion in a timely basis, that could be a great thing for Loreto in general.

Slim's got the resources to make a massive difference in Loreto. It has been sad to see Loreto slowly sink into economic depression since the late 80s.

I hope that his vision for his investment in Loreto is based in a type of investment that benefits the whole area of Loreto, the ecology and its residents and that his investment elevates most everyone as a rising tide lifts all ships. Loreto, being the "potential" and unique gem that it is, deserves that kind of treatment.

The free market...if that is what it truly is in this case... can save and elevate or it can devastate and exploit...it depends on the actions and intent of the key players and on intelligent vigilance by the citizenry.

Lee - 8-9-2013 at 01:27 PM

Slim improving Loreto economy is a good thing. Why is development and tourism a bad thing to some? Oh, bring back the good old days. These are the good old days.

Bajahowodd - 8-12-2013 at 03:55 PM

Many good comments about the Mexican telephone problem. The bigger problem is that for decades, so many industries have been in government control. I haven't looked at any of today's posts, but I did read that the newly elected president has put forth an agenda, which was tried and failed under Fox. Namely to allow private involvement in both electricity and petroleum.

That said. If Slim is so unbelievably wealthy, what skin would it be off his nose, if he either allowed competition in telecommunications, or drastically lowered his rates.

For a guy who was once a cab driver, why cannot he show some pity on the regular guy?

monoloco - 8-12-2013 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Many good comments about the Mexican telephone problem. The bigger problem is that for decades, so many industries have been in government control. I haven't looked at any of today's posts, but I did read that the newly elected president has put forth an agenda, which was tried and failed under Fox. Namely to allow private involvement in both electricity and petroleum.

That said. If Slim is so unbelievably wealthy, what skin would it be off his nose, if he either allowed competition in telecommunications, or drastically lowered his rates.

For a guy who was once a cab driver, why cannot he show some pity on the regular guy?

Hey, it's not cheap maintaining 3 200' yachts.

TMW - 8-12-2013 at 04:56 PM

Wealthy people are usually obsessed with either making more money or not losing what they have. They tend to do whatever is necessary to protect theirs. They do have their donation causes and often support it with large amounts (to us) of money. Buffet, Gates etc give away millions but when you have billions that's easy to do. Not saying it's good or bad, just the way it is. As long as they made it honestly good for them.

Paula - 8-12-2013 at 07:25 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfredo_Harp_Helú

Cousin to Carlos, this guy seems to be a genuine philanthropist and has funded
museums, a library and a school of indigenous languages among other projects
that will help to maintain the various native cultures of Oaxaca.

MitchMan - 8-13-2013 at 10:13 AM

I think Gates finally realized that he acquired too much money, all things considered.

DENNIS - 8-13-2013 at 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
For a guy who was once a cab driver, why cannot he show some pity on the regular guy?

He's a product of the Carlos Salinas privatization program.

chuckie - 8-13-2013 at 10:36 AM

I am amazed at ignorant we all are. Take the time, please to read the biography of Carlos Slim, and study his timeline. He, through a number of foundations has donated hundreds of millions of dollars , to improve education, health, sports and ecology here in Mexico. He is a true philanthropist...I read it today, and am truely impressed...We need more people like him....

DENNIS - 8-13-2013 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
I am amazed at ignorant we all are. Take the time, please to read the biography of Carlos Slim, and study his timeline. He, through a number of foundations has donated hundreds of millions of dollars , to improve education, health, sports and ecology here in Mexico. He is a true philanthropist...I read it today, and am truely impressed...We need more people like him....

How 'bout a link, Chuckie? I'm in the mood for a nice surprise. By Slim's own admission, he's not much into charity and sees his calling as a job creator to be more beneficial. He makes a good point.
Regardless of some praise which has been made of him, we don't know, nor ever will know, what incentives he receives for his reported generosity.

One thing I would confidently bet on is, he's not doing it for nothing.

chuckie - 8-13-2013 at 12:09 PM

www.carlosslim.com for starters.......I also used bing and searched Carlos Slim foundation...The man has recieved so many humanitarian awards its amazing.....

DENNIS - 8-13-2013 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
The man has recieved so many humanitarian awards its amazing.....

It's all show biz, Chuckie. I'll bet if you gave someone a sack of money, they'd give you a certificate too.

willardguy - 8-13-2013 at 12:41 PM

:lol:

I look like a pretty stellar dude too, on willardguy.com! :coolup:

mtgoat666 - 8-13-2013 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Slim, 73, lives in a nation with little tradition of philanthropic giving. Slowly, he’s overcoming a reluctance to donate money, but he still voices doubts about whether giving simply breeds dependency.

“We have seen donations for 100 years,” the telecommunications tycoon told The Chronicle of Philanthropy in September. “We have seen thousands of people working in nonprofits, and the problems and poverty are bigger. They have not solved anything.”

When he does give, Slim funds environmental, health and educational programs, but he avoids projects to strengthen democracy or civic participation.

“For many years, he said, ‘I think the most important thing I can do with my money is create jobs,’” said Joel L. Fleishman, a Duke University law professor and author of “The Foundation: A Great American Secret; How Private Wealth is Changing the World.”

Slim, who owns Mexico’s primary fixed line and cellphone networks, is far from uncharitable. He’s financed his Carlos Slim Foundation and the separate Telmex Foundation to the tune of some $5 billion. He recently built a museum in Mexico City to house his $100 million collection of art by Auguste Rodin, Salvador Dali and others. Entry is free.

Among his other endeavors are programs to post bail for first-time offenders, provide access to broadband for hundreds of thousands of students, and pay for research into genetic factors that may lead to cancer and diabetes.

On two occasions since 2010, Slim has partnered in projects with Gates.

What brought the mega-titans together in Texcoco, 30 miles northeast of Mexico City, was their support for the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center, a research station that half a century ago was at the heart of the global “green revolution” that saved an estimated 1 billion lives from starvation.

Slim put up $25 million for a new bioscience laboratory to bring world-class scientists to the station, which seeks to improve crop yields for poor farmers.

Speaking at a news conference with Slim, Gates said large U.S. foundations were at the core of work by Norman Borlaug, the agronomist and humanitarian who won the 1970 Nobel Peace Prize for developing high-yield cereal crop hybrids.

“Norman Borlaug’s salary came from that Rockefeller philanthropy,” Gates said, referring to the foundation set up by the family that made a fortune in oil. “Foundation funding has been key. It’s a wonderful thing to have a huge impact.”

Gates, still relatively young at 57, is fond of looking back at the work of the Rockefellers, Fords, Mellons and Carnegies. He often gives away copies of “The Gospel of Wealth,” an 1889 article by steel magnate Andrew Carnegie that suggests a rich man who dies without giving his wealth away dies in disgrace.

The Gates Foundation has set lofty goals, such as eradicating polio by 2018. It has done more to combat malaria, AIDS and tuberculosis in Africa than any other group in history. Its annual spending of some $3 billion to $4 billion is comparable to the budget this year of the World Health Organization at $3.9 billion.

“He has been very strategic in tackling a relatively small number of issues to try to have a big impact,” said Patrick Rooney of Indiana University’s School of Philanthropy.

Gates has pushed fellow billionaires to sign his “Giving Pledge,” which commits them to donate at least half of their wealth to philanthropic causes. He’s won over scores of adherents, including Warren Buffett, the world’s third-richest man, who in 2006 committed $31 billion to the Gates Foundation.

Among those who haven’t signed on, though, is Slim, who says that tycoons should keep running their empires and employing workers.

“Why half?” Slim asked on CNBC in January 2011. “What we need to do as businessmen is to help solve the social problems. To fight poverty, but not by charity.”

Even so, Slim has found some causes that he likes, including giving $50 million to the Mexican branch of the World Wildlife Fund, in part for its work in restoring and protecting habitat of the migratory monarch butterfly.

His foundations also have given $100 million to the Alas Foundation set up by Colombian rock star Shakira to provide education to young people and to the William J. Clinton Foundation to help small- and medium-sized businesses in Haiti.

Layton, the philanthropy scholar in Mexico City, said he sees little strategic vision to Slim’s giving.

“The donations seem almost random in terms of their amounts and their recipients,” he said. “In his public statements, he has repeatedly held that philanthropy can do little to promote development, yet he has sought out opportunities to join with Bill Gates, Shakira and Bill Clinton in their initiatives.

“This gives the impression that image and perception matter more than vision and substance in Slim’s giving.”

While Slim’s foundations are giving money, Layton said, “his heart’s just not in this.”

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/02/14/183120/to-give-or-to-k...

chuckie - 8-13-2013 at 01:49 PM

Now thats funny....His heart may not be in it, but his wallet sure is....

wilderone - 8-13-2013 at 07:04 PM

"'The donations seem almost random in terms of their amounts and their recipients,” he said. “In his public statements, he has repeatedly held that philanthropy can do little to promote development, yet he has sought out opportunities to join with Bill Gates, Shakira and Bill Clinton in their initiatives.'"

Sounds like a kook. He doesn't have a personal drive and vision to focus his own philanthropic initiatives? As to bailing out Homex, if Loreto Bay were an attractive investment or alternative lifestyle or easy vacation destination - as has all been touted for decades - then it would have happened already.

chuckie - 8-14-2013 at 04:54 AM

Why does he need one? Its his money, if he chooses to give 10,000 computers to the rural schools, or fund a first offender program, or what not, more power to him. He could just as easily, get offended at someone calling him a kook, buy a place like Loreto Bay and let it sink into a slum...It seems clear that wilderone read only an old opinion article written by an Academian, and not the biography.....I think many people like to bash Slim, and Gates and others because they did what the bashers didnt...Or couldnt do....

bajacalifornian - 8-15-2013 at 07:00 AM

"We need more people like him".... with a sidekick named Carlos Salinas de Gortari

MitchMan - 8-15-2013 at 10:23 AM

I can see Slim's philosophy being very effective for the betterment of society in the aggregate and in the long run so long as the use of his billions circulating in business that he says creates jobs does not fall into monopolistic behavior, capturing markets and eliminating competition. Such monopolistic behavior actually reduces employment, hurts the economy, reduces overall production, and keeps wages too low to sustain healthy living for the vast majority of those so called "created jobs". Such behavior wildly enriches only a handful of people while furthering the impoverishment of the many in the long run.

So, if Slim keeps his money engaged in actual productive investment without eliminating healthy competition, then a wider quantity of business activity will be stimulated in addition to his own and many more people will be employed beyond simply his own employee base and wages will then have a potential for being higher across the board. That way, a larger portion of the wealth that is created through production will find its way into the pockets of the very employees that do all the work of said production. Now, THAT would be a good use of wealth.

So, the question I would have with regard to Slim's plans and motivations in preferring the use of his billions in future business activity instead of giving away half of his wealth back to society is, "Is he going to engage in monopolistic business activity?"

And, the truthful answer is, "...

[Edited on 8-15-2013 by MitchMan]

chuckie - 8-15-2013 at 01:19 PM

I think the truthful answer is no..He is not...And keep in mind his companies are not one man grocery stores. They are regulated by the counties they do business in, including Mexico, as to rates and fees. Another interesting read is what the CEO of Telmex had to say on this subject. Carlos Slims companies will not be allowed tocontinue as a virtual monopoly. When they bought out ATT and others, they invested Billions in technology upgrades, and Telmex service today is awfully good. Will he continue to invest to further grow his corporate interests? Of course he will...Being successful is not a sin....

MitchMan - 8-15-2013 at 04:16 PM

If you limit the definition of "successful" to acquiring income and wealth through business activity, there are definitely successes that are sinful and there are successes that are not sinful. Being successful is quite broad and generic and includes both sinful and sin free behavior. Plenty of examples of both and you don't have to look very far.

When I hear someone has been "successful" in business, I don't automatically assume that such success was either sinful or sin free. If I don't have any of the facts or details, I would generally give the situation the benefit of the doubt, as in "you're presumed innocent until proven guilty", but I wouldn't say that it is realistic to say "success" per se, historically or into the future is, has been or will be at all free of sin.

In fact, one could say that business is such a fertile ground for sin that many, many measures have been instituted by society to fight and protect against sin in business. That is what the auditing industry is all about, not to mention the preponderance of business law, antitrust, tort law, contract law, Uniform Commercial Code, watchdog and consumer protection agencies, protection of third parties such as externalities (a third party that is neither the buyer nor the seller gets harmed from the business transaction) etc., etc., etc.

[Edited on 8-15-2013 by MitchMan]

chuckie - 8-15-2013 at 04:38 PM

Well said....I agree, however I didnt say no sins were committed, I said being successful in and of itself is not a sin.

MitchMan - 8-15-2013 at 04:43 PM

Fair enough, chuckie. Agreed.

wilderone - 8-16-2013 at 07:51 AM

"... many measures have been instituted by society to fight and protect against sin in business. That is what the auditing industry is all about, not to mention the preponderance of business law, antitrust, tort law, contract law, Uniform Commercial Code, watchdog and consumer protection agencies, protection of third parties such as externalities (a third party that is neither the buyer nor the seller gets harmed from the business transaction)"

In the United States.

".....I think many people like to bash Slim, and Gates and others because they did what the bashers didnt...Or couldnt do.... "
1. I wasn't "bashing" Slim.
2. That is a preposterous statement. Of course I am no Gates or Slim - not even a glimmer of a thought of the merest chance of what they have done. In no way does this fact color my opinion. Your opinions in defense of Slim seem a bit over the top.

More power to him. I just think he's wasting his money in Loreto Bay. My previous posts prior to and during the construction of Loreto Bay has proven me correct.

J.P. - 8-16-2013 at 08:17 AM

Quote:

More power to him. I just think he's wasting his money in Loreto Bay. My previous posts prior to and during the construction of Loreto Bay has proven me correct.

Slim may very well be wasting his Money, As I see it the others failed because the scope of the project was quite possibly bigger than their pocket Book. I don't think this will be the case with Slim. Hey may decide it was a bad idea and scrap the operation. too fail because of lack of funding will not be the case.
as the success or failure's impact on Loreto will be minimal due to the location of the project it would appear it was never intended to be part of Loreto .

MitchMan - 8-16-2013 at 10:20 AM

Slim wasting his money. I see that as a good thing in one respect: he's putting money back into circulation. If it doesn't turn a profit, the continuation of his investment will cease and probably be withdrawn at some point. If it turns a profit, his investment will remain, grow and the business will self sustain as profits mean that the business pays for itself and the excess (i.e., profits) will go into Slim's pockets...win, win.

Personally, I don't care if Slim wastes his money; at least that wasted amount will go into circulation and into other people's pockets and that is good as Slim has way, way more money than he needs to sustain a wildly comfortable life for himself and his family.

Presuming Slim is truly a skilled businessman and not just lucky (as many, though not most successful businesspeople, are), it is hard for me to fathom that he would invest in something of this magnitude without first analyzing and doing a formal feasibility study. While the amount of his investment is sizable - to you and me - it is a pittance to him.

Just for some perspective, the proposed merger between American Airlines and US Airways is purportedly at a cost of $22 Billion and the purchase of the Washing Post cost $250 million...Bill Gates' net worth approximately $54 - $64 Billion and Slim's at $66 - $76 Billion. The US gives Egypt $1.55 Billion a year in aid and gives Israel over $3 Billion a year. If Gates, Slim, Buffet and the Walmart family got together, they could form their own country, arm it to the hilt, and compete economically with Latvia and Panama.

Man, I hope Slim properly follows through with developing in Loreto. I would love to see long time residents fortified and benefit financially from such investment. It would be fantastic if such development could be done methodically in a timely manner with great planning and in a way that preserves the tranquility, beauty and quaintness that is signature Loreto.

While the investment may not be directly in the town of Loreto, there would certainly be an overflow effect directly to Loreto. At about the time of the Financial Crisis in 2008, contractors, laborers, architects living in Loreto had prospered from development in Nopolo, Loreto Bay and points south. The Mission hotel was redone, new hotels went up (Hacienda), there was new money invested in the malecon, real estate activity and prices skyrocketed and a new hospital was built to satiate concerns for new foreign residents which also would serve the people of Loreto.

[Edited on 8-16-2013 by MitchMan]

Aqsurfer - 8-18-2013 at 01:29 PM

Hola All,

Very good comments in this thread. Mitchman, you nailed it with your comment regarding investment (hopefully) generating benefits to locals, thoughtful planning, and protecting the natural beuaty of Loreto. The great tragedy that this discussion brings to mind is that the peninsula is basically in the hands of developers and mining interests. The track record so far is dismal.

With that said, Slim does have very smart people working for him and I hope that thoughtful development that benefits the larger community takes place. Vamos a ver que pasa.

There is a backstory here regarding the ejdos, land tenure, and development on the penisula. There was a period when the conservation organizations could have worked directly wth the ejidos to plan for sustainable development. In January, I gave a speech at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach about this topic:

http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/multimedia/player/lecture_a...

I cover two main topics in the lecture: 1. over fishing impacts by decade; and 2. what happened when the ejidos were permitted to sell lands in fee following the amendments of Article 27 of Mexico's Constitution (1972, '92 & '97). 1997 is the period when the Mitsubishi Salt project was being fought over Laguna San Ignacio. In the following decade, the peninsula was up for grabs. During this time I worked in partnership with Mexican NGO Pronatura on structuring innovative conservation models that directly benefitted local communities and land owners in exchange for conservation agreements. We were a few signatures away from signing three 1-million acres deals with ejidos at the following sites: (1) the 1-million acre/130 mile coastline Ejido Tierra y Libertad - Bahia de los Angeles; (2) the 1-mllion acre Ejido La Purisima (including Bahia Concepcion [Slim now owns it], a large swath of the Sierra de la Giganta, and the San Gregorio Wetland Complex); (3) the 1-million acre Laguna San Ignacio Wetland Complex. Only 10% (approx) of the 3-million acres were protected, the breakdown took place due to tragic decisions at the director level of conservation groups. The peninsula is in the hands of developers.

In 2006, the last major land battle over an ejido took place in Bahia de los Angeles (ejido Tierra y Libertad). BLA was lost in early 2008.

If anyone would like more details about what happened please post here or view the lecture video.

Peace,
Aqsurfer

Aaron

DianaT - 8-18-2013 at 02:21 PM

I look forward to listening to your lecture just as soon as this slow connection loads.

Are you familiar with the work being done by http://www.terrapeninsular.org/

They are having more success all the time at bringing more and more of Baja under protection; different areas from where you worked.

They are good people.

monoloco - 8-18-2013 at 02:31 PM

A 50 million dollar investment to Carlos Slim is like me investing the feria in my ashtray on lottery tickets.

Aqsurfer - 8-18-2013 at 04:08 PM

Hola Diana,

A few years ago, I was hired by folks in eastern San Diego county to look into the proposed massive wind energy project in the Sierra Juarez. The Sempra's Energia Sierra Juarez (ESJ) project was in its planning stages and it was being used as a "green wash" marketing tool for the then proposed Sunrise Powerlink (Imperial County to San Diego County). Don't believe the BS, that transmission line is all about fossil fuels - but that is another topic.

I was one of the people that called for public hearing on the project. Lots of people for and against attended the hearing in Tecate. Following the public comment period Mexico's environmental ministry SEMARNAT granted ESJ an environmental impact permit. I have seen some horrible enviro impact permits but this was one of the worst. Once the decision was out, I thought that all the conservation groups working in Baja would step up to challenge the approval. None did. None even visited the mountain ranges in question or talked to the folks that live at ground zero - the ejido Jacume. I was the only person to go talk to them.

I worked with Mex attorney Rodrigo Jara in structuring a legal strategy to challenge the approval. The problem we had was convincing a Mexican conservation group to present the challenge, we did all the heavy lifting. All we needed was a plaintiff. This allowed the statutory period for presenting legal challenges to pass.

We were saved from the statutory period when we realized that SEMARNAT had failed to publish the enviro impact permit in the Diario Oficial (federal register). After alot of hand ringing on their part, we finally convinced Terra to act as plaintiff. The challenge is currently being litigated by Rodrigo Jara on behalf of Terra in the Tribunal Federal de Justicia Admistrativa. I left the effort in January. The ESJ effort is where Terra originates their Sierra Juarez and San Pedro Martir. Simply raising awareness does not stop the onslaught - I will look for the map on the Mining Secretary's website showing all the mining concessions in baja - its scary.

There are a few things that are important to understand with regard to land conservation in Baja. First, from the mid-1930s to the late '90s, the ejidos were trapped in a system that denied them the right to raise capital by encumbering their lands and forced them to rely on the PRI for handouts. This largely locked baja's biodiversity in place and made life tough for ejido folks. As we know life is tough on a ranch or working in panga day-in, day-out.

Second, following Mitsubishi and the amendment to Article 27. The ejidos were receptive to leveraging their lands/biodiversity in exchange for financial imputs. The ejidos were land rich and cash poor. Plus it was always very clear to me that many ejidos were going to become wealthy selling lands, either to developers or conservation groups. This meant that I had to structure conservation agreements that could compete financially and produce large-scale enviro protection. The best examples of this was the trust fund-conservation model that I developed for the Ejido Echeverria at Laguna San Ignacio (high biodiveristy-low development potential) or the sustainable development model I attempted to implement in Bahia de los Angeles (high biodiversity-high development potential). In BLA, I worked with David Younkman (former senior TNC vice prez) in developing a plan in partnership with ejido members to take control of development. The ejido wanted $80 million USD. That is alot of money but not when compared against the biodiversity value, development potential, or land sales values. Our plan would have permanently locked up 990,000 acres. The effort failed. Since then, the folks in BLA have generated lots of income in land sales. This is the story throughout baja. Conservation ngo's have to come up with new models that provide incentives capable of competing with development money, good urban planning, and generating significant conservation.

The current situation requires strong partnerships with communities for smart growth (Loreto, BLA, Asuncion, Abreojos, San Ignacio, etc) and aggressve action in ejidos (100% not just targeted purchases) that have not been lost.

Peace,
Aqsurfer

DianaT - 8-18-2013 at 04:35 PM

When we met you at the IB Lifeguard Station, I remember you telling some very interesting stories about your work and efforts in Baja. BTW --- we have left Imperial Beach for the Owens Valley.

I do know that Terra Peninsular is responsible for the large piece of land north of El Rosario that is not under protection; or at least best as it can. I also know they are working together with others on another very important piece of land and I hope it works.

I hope you are still in contact with Jamie and his family in Asuncion as they and their friends in the local Wildcoast group work hard with what they have to improve the environment.

One thing that points to more possible development is the possible change in the Mexican Constitution that would allow foreigners to outright buy and hold title to coastal land. It passed the Congress and will reach the Senate very soon.

Many people are holding off on buying property in Baja right now as if this passes, it will save them thousands of dollars!

[Edited on 8-18-2013 by DianaT]

Aqsurfer - 8-18-2013 at 04:43 PM

Hola Diana,

You are absolutely correct about Article 27 - it is just a matter of time until foreign individuals can by land in fee.

Currenty, folks have been setting up Mex corporations and having that entity purchase lands in fee.

It will be interesting to see land tenure trends.

Next up for me in baja is organizing this year's lifeguard trip to Asuncion. Great first year last year, we were very impressed with folks that helped organize and the participants. We will be there in early October.

Peace,
A

DianaT - 8-18-2013 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aqsurfer
Hola Diana,

You are absolutely correct about Article 27 - it is just a matter of time until foreign individuals can by land in fee.

Currenty, folks have been setting up Mex corporations and having that entity purchase lands in fee.

It will be interesting to see land tenure trends.

Next up for me in baja is organizing this year's lifeguard trip to Asuncion. Great first year last year, we were very impressed with folks that helped organize and the participants. We will be there in early October.

Peace,
A

Wish we were going to be there this year --- we can't even offer the use of our house again as we sold it! It was just so good to see it finally happening.

I think the proposed new law is only for single family owner occupied properties which will end the need for the VERY costly Bank Trust. I think developers will still need to buy through corporations, but then if they subdivide, build homes or condos, they would be able to sell them with greater ease.

BTW--- not so long ago the local ejido was considering leasing some property for an oil refinery. Sure glad that didn't happen.

Aqsurfer - 8-21-2013 at 11:02 AM

Hola Diana,

I am sorry to hear that you will not be there this year - the lifeguard trips have always been a great team effort and you certainly played a big role in finally getting there last year. You are welcome to caravan with us - first week of October. I will finalize dates by the weekend.

I am also going to post a request here for donations to the ISLA to cover costs. The volunteers have just spent a long summer keeper lots of folks safe and it is the least we can offer (covering fuel/food costs).

Re: land. The days of straw-man bank trusts and foreign owned Mex corporations to execute land transactions are certainly at their end.

Re: oil refinery. Were any documents filed for permitting? I would be careful regarding these efforts. Pemex has already conducted extensive benchmark testing throughout the Vizcaino peninsula.

Peace,
Aaron

bajacalifornian - 8-21-2013 at 05:52 PM

"Re: land. The days of straw-man bank trusts and foreign owned Mex corporations to execute land transactions are certainly at their end." Que dice?

Aqsurfer - 8-23-2013 at 10:49 AM

Hola Jeff,

Regarding:

"Re: land. The days of straw-man bank trusts and foreign owned Mex corporations to execute land transactions are certainly at their end." Que dice?

This comment is directed at small-scale purchasers of land. As Diana said, alot of people are standing by to execute land purchases in Baja/Mex until after Art 27 is amended to permit direct small scale land purchases in fee.

Fideicomisos are not going away overnight. They will continue to run in perpetuity as legally constructed. I expect many to convert fediecomisos to fee title as soon as current lease terms expire/renewal period.

Foreign owned Mex corporations will also continue to exist. I was referring to a strategy by small-scale purchasers who wanted to avoid fideicomisos in favor of fee purchases. Foreign persons can set up a Mexican corporation (100% foreign owned) and have the Mexican legal entity purchase lands in fee.

I apologize for the broad statement and not providing more context.

Peace,
Aaron

Slim & Volaris

Worldtraveller - 9-14-2013 at 12:29 PM

He sold ownership share in Volaris a few years ago.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Carlos Slim Helu, the richest man in the world. Born of Lebanese immigrants to Mexico, once drove a cab in Mexico City.

He has been demonized for buying control of Mexico's telephone system and keeping rates inordinately high, while failing to modernize the technology at a pace anywhere near found in other nations.

Probably true that if he really does buy out the Loreto Bay owners, he could achieve a symbiosis with Volaris flights to Loreto. But then, he'd be helping the Villa Group in doing so.

I guess time will tell.