BajaNomad

Travel Trailer LED conversion

woody with a view - 9-1-2013 at 08:45 PM

We got a good deal on a travel trailer and the first order of bidness is to swap out all of the 1141 old school bulbs for a 90% more efficient LED bulb. I'll settle for 85%, but I digress.

I would really like to hear some real Baja solutions to the power consumption dilemma. Should I even worry about the heat/power draw of the old style bulbs or am I on the right track to want to consume less power....?

L.E.D.

J.P. - 9-1-2013 at 09:10 PM

I had a Toy Hauler that had more lights on it than a 18 wheeler, and never had a problem with power.
I now have a Wrangler that I tow behind the motor home and I have ben wanting to put Some LED lights on it I like the ones that the brake light's looks like a Pin Wheel when they come on.
As far as safety factor the LED puts out more light.

landyacht318 - 9-1-2013 at 09:18 PM

LED bulbs are the easiest way to reduce power consumption.

However, Not all are happy with the light color and light output of LED's. I like the white led's but many have a Blueish tinge to them. I have some warm white LED's which are closer to incandescent in color, but not quite the same.

LED's generally do not make great use of the original reflector.

Some of the regulated LED's can cause radio interference, knocking out TV or radio stations. I have some which knock out certain channels that are full strength with the LED off.

I'd recommend trying a few before committing to a larger numerical purchase.

1141 bulbs use a Ba15s base. Most bulbs I've bought are the T10 base. They've gotten much better in the last few years in brightness and color, but I've had one order of the same 4 bulbs have 3 of them white, and one very blue.

Since incandescent 12v bulbs are not polarity sensitive, if you install a ba15s LED bulb into the socket and it does not work, the light was wired backwards at the factory, and you got to swap the wires before the light.

Lots of LED threads over on RV.net

Pacifico - 9-1-2013 at 09:32 PM

I changed out the lights on one of my trailers to all LEDs. I wasn't really worried about power consumption; mostly did it for reliability. I got tired of replacing bulbs. Not a single problem since I went to LEDs!

woody with a view - 9-1-2013 at 09:56 PM

good to hear! i've gone all LED on all 3 of our Toyotas for the brightness. when i open the door i wanna see inside!!!!

keep the knowledge coming!

RnR - 9-1-2013 at 09:56 PM

Quote:

I would really like to hear some real Baja solutions to the power consumption dilemma. Should I even worry about the heat/power draw of the old style bulbs or am I on the right track to want to consume less power....?


Depends on whether you are running just on the batteries and actually need to conserve energy or have some type of charging method to replace the energy used each day.

Baja has lots of sun. I have one 75 watt panel on the roof of a 28 ft travel trailer. All bulbs are still 1141 incandescents. The panel charges the batts to full charge before noon. ( And this includes energy used by the water pump, sound system, TV, etc.)

I prefer the color of the 1141's. Tried two LEDs and went back to the incandescents. LED's were a bit too harsh.

Comparing the published "expected life" of incandescent bulbs and LED's is like comparing apples and oranges.

Incandescent bulbs put out their rated light output until they eventually go POOF.

LED's have a long life but slowly dim with use. The rated hours published for an LED is usually defined as the hours until the light output falls to 50% of the original output. (Extremely high life ratings may be based on light outputs of only 30%. Read the "fine print" for the specific LED)

Iflyfish - 9-1-2013 at 11:04 PM

I replaced all of the incandescent and florescent lights in my '06 Winnebago View and the energy consumption dropped significantly. That was an upgrade well worth the price. I got mine online and they fit the sockets and were not that expensive given they allowed me a much longer time off the grid.
Another upgrade was to install a Progressive Dynamic Inteli-Charger, about $150, a bargain as it pulses 14 amps into the batteries when needed to de-sulphate the plates, saved me $300 worth of batteries that had started to sulphate.
Soft white LEDs were just fine for me.
A solar panel also added to the mix and provided good off grid battery charging.

Iflyfishconmiamigosenbaja

Re. Travel trailer LED conversion

tortuga - 9-2-2013 at 07:37 AM

Dear Mr. Woody,
We have a 24 ft trailer that lives in Los Barriles area. We do not have grid power to lot as of yet. We provide power to the coach via a 100 watt solar panel and one 12 volt group 27 deep cycle battery.
This has been capable of running our water pump, lighting, charging batteries for small electronics and our 110 volt led Christmas lights for ambiance :yes: (with 400 watt inverter).
Like another said here the battery is usually recharged by the early afternoon. Have not changed to led lights in trailer yet.
If you are in the market for a solar panel may I suggest checking out a company called Solar blvd. I think they have very good pricing on panels (12 volt)
Enjoy the new trailer :yes:, Tortuga

oladulce - 9-2-2013 at 09:30 AM

Yes, the light bulbs in your travel trailer will make a huge difference in your power usage, especially in the winter when you'll have lights on longer each night.

I just got some of these for our trailer and they put out more light than I expected. Only use 1.4 watts! I think a sneeze requires more power than that.
LED 12volt Bayonet bulbs

You don't have to switch out all your trailer bulbs. I just put some of these LEDS in a few key lights that we use a lot like over the cooktop, over the dining table etc. Places where you don't need a huge amount of light. You can leave the some of the original bulbs in place for extra illumination when you need it and switch to the LEDS for background light. You'll find you can get by with the LEDs a lot of the time.

woody with a view - 9-2-2013 at 09:58 AM

Thanks Dulce! just what i was looking for.

Ateo - 9-2-2013 at 10:01 AM

Lots of great info here...........have fun with that travel trailer.....I expect to be chilling inside drinking a Pacifico someday.

woody with a view - 9-2-2013 at 10:07 AM

soon! we are dragging it down on a one way journey mid nov.

MitchMan - 9-2-2013 at 11:10 AM

Been researching solar power. I recently read that a 100 watt solar panels, on the average, can only deliver about 240 watts of power to a battery per day.

RnR and Tortuga,
since you both mention that your solar panels top up your batteries before noon in Baja, and that you use that resultant battery energy to power a water pump, sound system, TV, etc. OR to power a water pump, lighting, charging batteries for small electronics and 110 volt led Christmas lights for ambiance, my research must be wrong. ???

Jack Swords - 9-2-2013 at 11:17 AM

http://dx.com/c/car-accessories-799/car-lights-723

Replaced all of the lights in our sailboat with LEDs from the site above. Used clustered cells that provide lots of light, no heat. Lots of choices.

landyacht318 - 9-2-2013 at 02:07 PM

Incandescent bulbs do get dimmer with age until the filament breaks. They are rated at initial lumens, initial meaning when new.

Here is a 3497 bulb with a ba15s base( same as 1141) that is rated at 565 initial lumens. The 1141 is something like 365 initial lumens.

http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=25835&BreadCrumbValues=Automotive^%20Miniature,%20 Single%20Contact%20Bayonet%20(BA15s)%20Watts&SearchFieldCode=null

I've never heard that LED's keep getting dimmer with age, does not mean it is not true though.

If one has needs for a bright highly directional task light, the CREE based bulbs with lens project a huge amount of light in a cone. Not good for use with incandescent reflectors.
http://www.amazon.com/Jtech-1156-BA15S-White-Light/dp/B00B22...

I recently took a dollar store led gooseneck light, ripped out the LED, ran 18 awg wire through the neck, bypassed the triple AA battery box(4.5vdc) and fed a 12v Cree based t-20 bulb directly to my 12v battery.

Draws 0.12 amps. Very bright, very white. Put the cone of light right where desired.

tortuga - 9-2-2013 at 03:08 PM

Dear Mr. Mitchman,
You can figure on 100 watts x amount of sunlight hrs. I think 4 to5 hrs. per day in the winter months is a good assumption for 23 degrees latitude (probably more like 6). So 400 to 500 watts per day easy . I have been pleasantly surprised by the performance so far. Certainly using the new LEDS would be beneficial if you are off the grid. Might try some this year when we go down next. My main point was that solar is very practical with a 12 volt power system.
Saludos, Tortuga

rts551 - 9-2-2013 at 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tortuga
Dear Mr. Mitchman,
You can figure on 100 watts x amount of sunlight hrs. I think 4 to5 hrs. per day in the winter months is a good assumption for 23 degrees latitude (probably more like 6). So 400 to 500 watts per day easy . I have been pleasantly surprised by the performance so far. Certainly using the new LEDS would be beneficial if you are off the grid. Might try some this year when we go down next. My main point was that solar is very practical with a 12 volt power system.
Saludos, Tortuga


You guys do way better than me. I can only get 75% maximum from my panels....many times only 50%. My controller tells me what is going to the batteries in Watts.

tortuga - 9-2-2013 at 03:29 PM

Quote:
You guys do way better than me. I can only get 75% maximum from my panels....many times only 50%. My controller tells me what is going to the batteries in Watts.


To be fair I don't know the actual wattage per day with our set up. But I do know that it is sufficient for our needs. I was surprised that one 100 watt panel and one battery provides our power needs. We started out with 120 watts amorphous panels. We had a harder time then meeting our power consumption. The panel I am using now is polycrystalline.
Maybe your controller is only telling you the wattage being delivered to your batteries and not the wattage coming from your panels . I put an ammeter between controller and battery bank (@ my home 440 watt array) The ammeter is showing me what the controller is delivering to the batteries not the amperage the panels are delivering to the controller. I have a PWM controller by the way.
Hope I am making sense here and I am getting of the thread subject.
Saludos, Tortuga

[Edited on 9-2-2013 by tortuga]

MitchMan - 9-2-2013 at 03:47 PM

Great info Tortuga and rts551.

LED Replacements

bajaguy - 9-2-2013 at 03:55 PM

Woody

Replaced all of my exterior marker lights from these guys, great service and fast shipping:

http://tinyurl.com/kcfo3xe

Stop, turn and tail with these:

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-lights/led-bargman-07-...

The above two conversions greatly increased the output & brightness over standard incandecent and are weather sealed.

And interior/exterior lights with these.......cool white lights for exterior (porch & hitch), kitchen under counter & bath, warm white for the others:

http://www.m4products.com/super-bright-cob-led-plate-in-cool...

Makes a big difference!!!!!

Even the Minister of Finance/Director of Family Happiness likes them.



[Edited on 9-2-2013 by bajaguy]

tortuga - 9-2-2013 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Even the Minister of Finance/Director of Family Happiness likes them.


This is very important !

woody with a view - 9-2-2013 at 04:31 PM

Thanks for all the LEaDs!!!:biggrin:

bajaandy - 9-2-2013 at 05:02 PM

One way in mid Nov... Que donde?

woody with a view - 9-2-2013 at 05:04 PM

stay tuned for the report!:lol::lol::lol:

woody with a view - 10-8-2013 at 02:47 PM

okay, here's the mods so far:

progressive dynamic intlli-charger/converter. clean enough power to charge the laptop.
solar battery tender- http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-1163-Solar-Maintain... only 5 watts but should help top off the battery. i got it mainly to keep the tundra battery alive-i only drive it once a month or less.
changed out a whack of old style bulbs to these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TKI4VU/ref=oh_details_o... not brilliant white but good enough.
new cooling unit in the refer. it's one of the newer ones that require power to run the mainboard but runs on propane. it's my weak link for now.
got the potential mouse entry holes all covered and caulked.
just need to figure out how the vent window frames remove so i can replace one broken glass!*$#%.

i think i'm ready!:yes:

[Edited on 10-8-2013 by woody with a view]

I guess anything is legal in Mexico (maybe)

durrelllrobert - 10-8-2013 at 04:39 PM

Back in 1960 the US auto makers announced that henceforth all new cars would have amber front turn signals because "THEY WERE SAFER". So I started a small company to manufacture aftermarket amber turn signal lens covers for older cars (64 different models) that consisted of a thin Mil-Spec amber butyrate plastic cover that was vacuum formed to fit over the outside of the existing clear lens. I had an exclusive agreement with J.C. Whitney (Workowski actually) to market them. After I shipped several thousand to him he cancelled all orders and sued me because his customers were getting tickets for "ILLEGAL MODIFICATION OF THE LIGHTING SYSTEM". My lawyer checked into it and sure enough they were illegal in 47 of the states. That's when GE and Westinghouse started making the amber bulbs that are still used on some cars.

This made me wonder about after market LED lights and here's what I found about legality:








California V C Section 26101 Modification of Vehicle Equipment

(a) A person shall not sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104.


(b) A person shall not use upon a vehicle, and a person shall not drive a vehicle upon a highway that has installed a device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of a lighting, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device complies with Section 26104.

(c) This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles.
Amended Sec. 45, Ch. 491, Stats. 2010. Effective January 1, 2011.


CA V C Section 26104 Required Laboratory Tests


26104. (a) Every manufacturer who sells, offers for sale, or manufactures for use upon a vehicle devices subject to requirements established by the department shall, before the device is offered for sale, have laboratory test data showing compliance with such requirements. Tests may be conducted by the manufacturer.


(b) The department may at any time request from the manufacturer a copy of the test data showing proof of compliance of any device with the requirements established by the department and additional evidence that due care was exercised in maintaining compliance during production. If the manufacturer fails to provide such proof of compliance within 30 days of notice from the department, the department may prohibit the sale of the device in this state until acceptable proof of compliance is received by the department.

Amended Ch. 399, Stats. 1980. Effective July 11, 1980.
_________________________________________________
Typical CA BS that says nothing and is subject to interpretation by the police. But here's some stuff that police in different states say on their unofficial web site regarding giving you a ticket for this:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&a...

(1) It is illegal in Louisiana to alter the tail lights from the original manufacturer guidelines. I do not know anyone who enforces it including myself. I think it makes vehicles safer. There are some after market lights that are not LEd and are really small and difficult to see especially during the day which can bring civil liability or traffic citations that I agree with enforcing.

(2) Be careful with that "DOT approved" logo, US DOT does not approve or disapprove lighting devices. Lighting devices, both original equipment and aftermarket, must meet the specifications in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108. The manufacturers SELF CERTIFY that their devices meet FMVSS108. It the manufacturers lie and put DOT approved on the box or on the item, guess who still gets the ticket.

(3) FMVSS108 requires that REPLACEMENT lights/lenses shall conform to the standard (S5.8.1)
The standard also specifies the size of the lens, Stop lamp lens shall be not less than 50 square centimeters (S5.1.1.26.(a))

Concerning flashing tail or stop lamps they are not legal per FMVSS108- S5.5.10
FMVSS108 supercedes State laws so a State law can not allow tail or stop lamps which flash. State laws follow FMVSS108 so there are State statutes which can be used to enforce these standards.

There are a lot of ways that your aftermarket LED lights can be illegal.

woody with a view - 10-8-2013 at 07:31 PM

mine are on the inside. don't care about the outside lights.

DavidE - 10-9-2013 at 10:52 AM

The cops are too busy citing people with no lights, or those who forget to turn them on at 2:00AM. Really bright lights, dim lights, or 335 lights burning will get their attention.

Having dealt with LED lighting as a professional I could offer some advice. Cheap Chinese lights rely on series parallel configuration with carbon resistors to control incoming voltage. I will not touch one as far as buying for resale because of the reliability issue. Lamps with voltage regulators inside are the most reliable and they do not dim as the battery voltage varies. BUT. Voltage regulated LED lamps can act as a radio frequency emitter and disturb radio, Television, and communications signals. If you decide to go with lamps with regulators AND have suseptible electronics aboard, I sure would try one sample lamp out before making a bulk purchase. RF shielding is not cheap and it is not easy to install.

For flat panel "plate" retrofits I like the voltage regulated units from COMMAND ELECTRONICS. They offer both cool and warm white. Command does not lie about the lumen output of their lamps. For toy haulers I have selected a FIFTY WATT Luxeon flood lamp with nine thousand lumens. I have seen operation rooms in use with less brightness of illumination.

BTW, for safety, in case I get stuck, stalled out on the highway after dark, I found out the hard way that a good LED flashlight with the "flicker" emergency setting placed in the rear window to have no equal (except maybe for flashing red and blue lamps haha) to warn approaching drivers that your car is disabled. Even a driver that enjoyed a gallon of Tecate for dinner might have a chance to have successful eyeball to soused brain communication.