BajaNomad

Baja independence movement

bajaguy - 10-17-2013 at 09:30 AM

Separatist Group seeks independence for Baja California Mexico:

http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/44745/Separatist-Group-s...





[Edited on 10-18-2013 by BajaNomad]

Estadas Unidas de Baja?

durrelllrobert - 10-17-2013 at 10:07 AM

Separatist Group seeks independence for Baja California Mexico

The petition is circulating the social networks, but how feasible is it?
Separatist Group seeks independence for Baja California
by Elizabeth Rosales

October 16 2013





Because of the uncertainty generated by the possible approval of the Tax Reform and the consequent discontent of the people, it was proposed through social media that the state Baja California becomes an independent country. The Facebook group “Republic of Baja California” which was created this past October 14 made the suggestion and today it counts with over 26,000 followers.

The first time Baja California tried to become independent was in the mid 1800’s with William Walker, journalist and leader of a freebooter movement, which sought power and recognition beyond the expansion of their country, the United States.

Their dream was to colonize Baja California as well as Sonora and turn them into a Nation. They even had a flag designed that represented these 2 states, although finally it was not able to be finished. In 1853, Walker declared the independence of Baja California and self-proclaimed himself as it's first President and established Ensenada as the capital city, although none of this was recognized as such.

Both Mexico and the United States signed an agreement to persecute him, which is why he finally ended up turning himself in to the American authorities.

Gilberto Lavenant Sifuentes, Journalist of the Agencia Fronteriza de Noticias, pointed out the controversy started by this Facebook group indicating that “It's not as easy as it looks” recommending that professionals be consulted, with knowledge of history and constitutionalism.

During Felipe Calderon's term as president, in 2010, they spoke about this initiative but only for a brief period of time. They talked about making Baja California independent from the rest of the country and making it into an Independent nation due to the law controlling dollars, which was a modification to article 115 of the Credit Institutions Law, imposed by the Treasury Department which intended to have a better control (and reduce) the dollar currency in the country as well as way to fight money laundering.

The decision was very criticized by campaigns which attacked the centralist politics in the country, arguing that these decisions didn’t meet the needs of the republic, especially the border:


We are now living a similar situation, although the problem is different, the citizens are dealing with a proposal coming from the country's interior, a decision that northerners despise: The VAT standardization.
Establishing it's own currency, political division, changes to the states hymn, which would then become the national anthem, as well as showing off a few examples of a possible flag and relocating the cities capital to Ojos Negros, Real del Castillo, according to the sites administrators, as a strategy in the event of war according to it's geographical location, “as far away from coasts and borders”.

The newspaper El Universal reported today that the region of Cataluña in Spain was looking to declare it's independence, and regions like Scotland from the United Kingdom, Flandes of Belgica and Quebec of Canada, are all pursuing the same dream as Baja California in Mexico.

What do we need? Is it possible?

Victor Ramon Soto del Toro wrote in one of the Facebook comments that “Declaring one's currency and defending it as valid is an act of legitimate democracy”, he is proposing that we accept an exclusive exchange rate for Baja California as the first step, what others are questioning is what would be the economic support for this currency.



According to a chart published by the blog DatosyNumeritos (Data and numbers) based on information from INEGI, Baja California does not figure among the states with the best economy in the country, however, Baja California is among the states with the best quality of life at the border, according to The State of the Border Report, a book published this year by Wilson Center in collaboration with the North Border Collegiate, which can be interpreted that it may not obtain the largest amount of income, but it does count with the advantage of greater access to cheaper products in comparison to the rest of the country which cannot cross over to the United States to purchase electronics or clothes at better prices, on the other hand we also find that Baja California has less poverty than the average in the rest of the Republic.



Baja California, both Northern and Southern, figure in the 3rd and 4th place in the states of Mexico with the highest rate for human development in 2010.

Is Baja California's Independence viable? Is it a mere joke or a movement seeking to get organized? Only time will tell. Some consider it foolishness, simple pipe dreams. For the moment it's possible to imagine that it’s a movement which is organized under the impulse of the peoples rage and will not transcend to anything more. There is a lot of interest in the country's politics, however, it tends to fade away fast, without letting anything truly be established.

It happened when Enrique Peña Nieto took his position as President, and the same thing with Felipe Calderon. All it takes is a while for us to passively accept the governments impositions, be it because of rationalization, thinking that uprising would be madness, or because of laziness to act.

Elizabeth.Rosales@sandiegored.com



Since the details about the Tax Reform proposed by President Enrique Peña Nieto were presented to the citizens, there has been plenty of discontent for many of its points. In Baja California the one that worries the population the most is the increase of the VAT by 5%.

1) By increasing the taxes from 11% to 16%, the price of products would rise, and this would cause an increase of capital leaks from consumers who go to the Untied States to purchase these items at a lower price, the increase would be about 30%, which would represent a net annual loss of 8k Million Dollars.

2) The industrial sector threatens to leave the region, leaving thousands of people without a job

Fearing an economic coup for Baja California, Internet users have joined together in the social networks, some are just jokes, some are just outraged by the possibility of this law being approved, but they all seem to agree on the development of Baja California becoming independent.

[Edited on 10-17-2013 by durrelllrobert]

Bajajorge - 10-17-2013 at 10:12 AM

Could get interesting.

motoged - 10-17-2013 at 10:13 AM

Bob,
Interesting....Albertans raise that flag every once in a while, as I am sure you know.

"Not gonna happen" is what I think, but it gives the local politicos something to dream about...:light:

durrelllrobert - 10-17-2013 at 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Bob,
Interesting....Albertans raise that flag every once in a while, as I am sure you know.

"Not gonna happen" is what I think, but it gives the local politicos something to dream about...:light:


Albertans don't want to become a separate country; they just want Quebec to succeed from Canada and become part of France :lol:

monoloco - 10-17-2013 at 10:44 AM

That will be about as popular in the DF as BBQ whale meat at a Rainbow gathering.

Bajacalifornians are talking about cessation

bajacalifornication - 10-17-2013 at 03:08 PM

Hello Queridos Nomadas;
I was listening to Milenio radio 95.3 fm in Tijuana and they mention. A group of Bajacalifornianos want to become independent from Mexico. Baja Norte's economy is the same as
either Uruguay or Paraguay 1 of the best economys in South America. It's in facebook and they say is going very strong.
(support). There is supposed to be a meeting this coming saturday and a march.

bajaguy - 10-17-2013 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajacalifornication
Hello Queridos Nomadas;
I was listening to Milenio radio 95.3 fm in Tijuana and they mention. A group of Bajacalifornianos want to become independent from Mexico. Baja Norte's economy is the same as
either Uruguay or Paraguay 1 of the best economys in South America. It's in facebook and they say is going very strong.
(support). There is supposed to be a meeting this coming saturday and a march.




PS: If you are not a citizen of Mexico, stand on the curb and watch the march go by.

[Edited on 10-17-2013 by bajaguy]

[Edited on 10-18-2013 by BajaNomad]

David K - 10-17-2013 at 03:28 PM

In the museum, in La Paz:




From the Internet... http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/mx-rso.html




Republic of Lower California (Nov. 3, 1853-Jan. 21, 1854)

On October 17, 1853, William Walker fled from California toward La Paz, Baja California (Sur), on the Caroline. He reached Cabo San Lucas on October 28, then he went to La Paz where his 45-tripulation landed on November 3. Walker ordered to capture the city and its governor Colonel Espinosa. It is important to say that to take the ciyt by surprise, Walker arrived La Paz flying the Mexican flag. After about half hour the filibusters took their victims and rose the flag of the self-proclaimed Republic of Lower California. "Colonel" Walker appointed himself as President of the new republic with the follwing speech:

"The Republic of Lower California is declared free, sovereign, and independent quitting since now on of its alliance with Mexico" .

William Walker adopted as a constitution one similar to that in effect in Louisiana, USA, then an pro-slavery constitution.

Three days later, Walker moved to Cabo San Lucas, for he wished to establish there the headquarters of his new government, other historians say, he did because he knew Mexican troops went to La Paz to catch him. Anyway, he took prisoners Colonel Juan Clímaco Rebolledo and Espinosa. Once in Cabo San Lucas (November 8), Walker moved again to Ensenada, (in the present-day State of Baja California Sur) (November 29).

Walker appointed Frederick Emory as his "Secretary of the Interior", and send him to San Diego, California, to get provisions and people to support the cause. In San Diego, Frederick lift a recruitment office under the new flag of the "Republic of Lower California". On December 4, Lieutenant Castillo Negrete and Antonio Melendres with 58 men came from Santo Tomás fighting Walker during eight days, however, both Melendres and Negrete retreated after suffering many deaths.

Juan Manuel Gabino Villascán, Jan. 29, 2002

Republic of Sonora (Jan. 21, 1854 - May 7/8, 1854)

On January 21, 1854, Walker promulgated a decree, published in the San Diego Herald, on which the republic name was changed to Republic of Sonora with two constituent states: Sonora and Baja California.

Due desertions and lack of provisions, Walker decide moving to San Vicente, where summoned the people and exhorted them to secede from Mexico in order to protect region's actual interests under the US government support. William Walker and his men fled Baja California toward Sonora on March 20, 1854, but were assaulted by Indians. In return to San Vicente, Walker was attacked by Melendres, being defeated. Walker fled from there (May 7) and crossed the border giving himself up to General Henry S. Burton on May 8. Walker and his followers were taken to San Francisco.

Juan Manuel Gabino Villascán, Jan. 29, 2002

Flag of Walker's republic

The flag first hoisted in La Paz, Baja California, on November 3, 1854, when William Walker proclaimed the "Republic of Lower California". The flag was also hoisted on the Recruitment office in San Diego, established by Frederick Emory, Walker's "Secretary of the Interior". When the republic name changed on January 21, 1854, by Walker's decree, the flag did not suffer any change.

Such a flag consisted on three horizontal bands of red, white and red, with two red stars (one for Lower California and other for Sonora). According to several drawings and engravings, the stars were six-pointed, but other sources say they were five-pointed. The flag is depicted in several proportions.

Juan Manuel Gabino Villascán, Jan. 29, 2002

David K - 10-17-2013 at 03:32 PM

Hi Bob, where did you see that flag? I would like to try and save it in my files... great history! Here is the flag of the last time the peninsula was an independent republic, in a La Paz museum now:


Baja independence movement goes from 4,000 members to 60,000 in less than a day

JESSE - 10-17-2013 at 05:24 PM

We are tired of this goverment that does not represent us, and we are not going to take it anymore.

https://www.facebook.com/bajaindependiente?fref=ts



EnsenadaDr - 10-17-2013 at 05:29 PM

Does that mean they will automatically get green cards and free health care in the US?

JESSE - 10-17-2013 at 05:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Does that mean they will automatically get green cards and free health care in the US?


Nah! but your going to need different ones to be here

rts551 - 10-17-2013 at 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Does that mean they will automatically get green cards and free health care in the US?


no but it may be that all expats have to start their immigration paperwork all over for the new republic.

JESSE - 10-17-2013 at 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Does that mean they will automatically get green cards and free health care in the US?


no but it may be that all expats have to start their immigration paperwork all over for the new republic.


Exactly, so be nice:lol:

EnsenadaDr - 10-17-2013 at 05:36 PM

I have a feeling we will see a moderate increase in Military enforcement if things get out of hand:biggrin:

JESSE - 10-17-2013 at 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I have a feeling we will see a moderate increase in Military enforcement if things get out of hand:biggrin:


Yes, the Chinese will be invited to hang out in case of any problems:lol:

EnsenadaDr - 10-17-2013 at 06:05 PM

Jesse,

The name of the street that I lived on in Hawaii was Chong. I assumed the guy was Chinese. Then someone told me an old bakery down the street used to be a prisoner of war camp in WWII. I guess one had nothing to do with the other...when people make ridiculous mistakes about medicine do I poke fun at them? No. So when are you guys gonna let go of this?
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I have a feeling we will see a moderate increase in Military enforcement if things get out of hand:biggrin:


Yes, the Chinese will be invited to hang out in case of any problems:lol:

JESSE - 10-17-2013 at 06:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Jesse,

The name of the street that I lived on in Hawaii was Chong. I assumed the guy was Chinese. Then someone told me an old bakery down the street used to be a prisoner of war camp in WWII. I guess one had nothing to do with the other...when people make ridiculous mistakes about medicine do I poke fun at them? No. So when are you guys gonna let go of this?

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I have a feeling we will see a moderate increase in Military enforcement if things get out of hand:biggrin:


Yes, the Chinese will be invited to hang out in case of any problems:lol:





Let go of what?












[Edited on 10-18-2013 by BajaNomad]

JESSE - 10-17-2013 at 06:21 PM

Less than an hour later, its 71,000

rts551 - 10-17-2013 at 06:55 PM

In Mexico, is the call for independence/cessation considered a crime?

Barry A. - 10-17-2013 at 06:58 PM

Southern Oregon and N California have been trying to form the "State of Jefferson" for years with little success. I would support it, in both cases.

aguachico - 10-17-2013 at 07:04 PM

it's amazing how dependent people are on facebook. Facebook is the biggest virus in IT today.

The topic sounds interesting. too bad it's infected.

eyewww!!!

EdZeranski - 10-17-2013 at 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Southern Oregon and N California have been trying to form the "State of Jefferson" for years with little success. I would support it, in both cases.


Geeze Looo Weeeze! How would they ever survive the acute prissiness??


EDZ....SoCal!!!

Ocean Beach, Borrego Springs, Baja

Papeles Por Favor

EdZeranski - 10-17-2013 at 07:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I have a feeling we will see a moderate increase in Military enforcement if things get out of hand:biggrin:



There were a grunch military more running around Loreto today but thought it was because of the downed aircraft. The Chinese comment someone made isn't all that unreasonable, they'd like a port here, Colonet perhaps. Geeze, the Chinese would hand Mexicans their butts in a bag.

EdZ

Barry A. - 10-17-2013 at 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EdZeranski
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Southern Oregon and N California have been trying to form the "State of Jefferson" for years with little success. I would support it, in both cases.


Geeze Looo Weeeze! How would they ever survive the acute prissiness??


EDZ....SoCal!!!



Ocean Beach, Borrego Springs, Baja


Rednecks are Prissy????? :?: We ain't talking the "Bay Area" here. :lol:

Barry




[Edited on 10-18-2013 by Barry A.]

David K - 10-17-2013 at 10:37 PM

Jesse, would they really keep Baja in the name?

The movement in the mid 70's was to rename the (new) state of Baja California Sur to 'SudCalifornia' and Baja California (Norte) to 'Juarez'.

The feeling then was who wants to be 'Lower' or Below California...

The Sudcalifornia idea (Southern California) was worthy, because Baja California was just 'California' FIRST! Next it was known as Antigua (Old) California (1769 with the move into Nueva California)... then Antigua California changed to Baja California... which became a separate political unit in 1804.

However, the popularity and world-wide fame of 'BAJA' seems to have squashed the un-Baja name ideas?

durrelllrobert - 10-18-2013 at 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Jesse, would they really keep Baja in the name?

The movement in the mid 70's was to rename the (new) state of Baja California Sur to 'SudCalifornia' and Baja California (Norte) to 'Juarez'.

The feeling then was who wants to be 'Lower' or Below California...

The Sudcalifornia idea (Southern California) was worthy, because Baja California was just 'California' FIRST! Next it was known as Antigua (Old) California (1769 with the move into Nueva California)... then Antigua California changed to Baja California... which became a separate political unit in 1804.

However, the popularity and world-wide fame of 'BAJA' seems to have squashed the un-Baja name ideas?


I think Baja Abajo has a nice ring to it, along with Baja Arriba

DavidE - 10-18-2013 at 10:44 AM

¡Jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja!

I showed the independence movement proclamation above to folks here in the Miramar Store, and it caused an uproar...

¡Ojala!

¡Orale!

¡Andele!

"They rob us, they tax us, they regulate and tell us what to do, but we receive no apoyo, no services, no representation!"

This was from customers and visitors. Thought you'd like to know how the locals down here feel about a movement like this.

rts551 - 10-18-2013 at 10:53 AM

Makes for good jabbering, and a good distraction, but ain't gonna happen.

[Edited on 10-18-2013 by rts551]

Mexitron - 10-18-2013 at 11:05 AM

If it goes independent Baja could get developed a lot faster...not so good for us explorer types. I'm thinking they'd be more under the U.S. sphere of influence.

DavidE - 10-18-2013 at 01:01 PM

Economics 101

It's the RATIO of funds collected versus services and money returned that people are complaining about. Sure if a person ate magic mushrooms and imagined an ungoverned anarchy to administer the peninsula, yeah, the people in La Paz would lose their flow of Pay 100 in, get 2 back paychecks. But it's the politicos in D.F. who suck things dry like a vampire in a blood bank. LOOK AROUND YOU IN SAN LUCAS. Where does all that money go? Yeah, the nice parks, and landscaping. Big huricanes and what does the government do? Ask for donations.

I hope this movement scares the hell out of EPN the senadores and diputados but it probably isn't even being noticed.

mtgoat666 - 10-18-2013 at 01:10 PM

The new govt for the penninsula should be a constitutional monarchy. i shall be the monarch. name of the new nation will be goatlandia. all bow to the goat!

:lol::lol::lol:

bajaguy - 10-18-2013 at 01:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
"They rob us, they tax us, they regulate and tell us what to do, but we receive no apoyo, no services, no representation!"






Hmmmmmmmm, sounds just like the US :lol:

Barry A. - 10-18-2013 at 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
"They rob us, they tax us, they regulate and tell us what to do, but we receive no apoyo, no services, no representation!"

Any idea what percentage of payroll in the La Paz area, comes from Federation funds? Or how it compares to federal taxes collected from the area?

Note that I didn't mention Los Cabos, which is mostly a funnel for foreign tourist money...


I have always marveled at how nice & beautiful Chetumal is as the Capitol of Quintana Roo, utilizing all that tax money from the boom town of Cancun. It happens everywhere. :lol:

Barry

monoloco - 10-18-2013 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Economics 101

It's the RATIO of funds collected versus services and money returned that people are complaining about. Sure if a person ate magic mushrooms and imagined an ungoverned anarchy to administer the peninsula, yeah, the people in La Paz would lose their flow of Pay 100 in, get 2 back paychecks. But it's the politicos in D.F. who suck things dry like a vampire in a blood bank. LOOK AROUND YOU IN SAN LUCAS. Where does all that money go? Yeah, the nice parks, and landscaping. Big huricanes and what does the government do? Ask for donations.

I hope this movement scares the hell out of EPN the senadores and diputados but it probably isn't even being noticed.
I can tell you that the government is returning a significant ratio in the form of highway building here in the cape region. Hundreds of millions have been spent in the last few years on making the highway from Lapaz to Cabo into four lanes with all new bridges, a bypass road around Todos Santos, a new highway from north of Cabo to the airport, street repaving projects in La Paz, Todos Santos, Los Cabos, etc.

DavidE - 10-18-2013 at 01:58 PM

How much in taxes, revenues are generated yearly between La Paz and Los Cabos. How many years of these revenues passed before Mex 19 was "improved"? Of course as in the USA, highway workers make $30.00 hour, land costs 100,000 dollars an acre, and think of all that "imported" asphalt.

Perhaps you vastly underestimate the amount of US Dollars that flow in (and out) of that area, yearly.

Foggy Bottom isn't much better. Our government is absolutely isolated from the wants and needs of the population. Totally disconnected. The "ability" to survive, and survival means life or death, on Social Security, is missing. I cannot rent the cheapest 1 bdr apartment, I cannot even come CLOSE to paying the cost of rent with my entire check. A fact like THAT was not true 20-years ago.

DF politicos are enjoying a champagne lifestyle while prices keep rising.

100 pesos an hour? Surely you jest...

Divided and calculated correctly per 8 hour workday my pension comes to 52 pesos an hour. And I have to help my kids on the mainland. The tropical storm destroyed their business.

Hook - 10-18-2013 at 04:19 PM

So, how's Baja set for some of the basics, if they break away?

Things like crude oil, refined gasoline and diesel...........oh, yeah, and what about essentials like beer breweries and tequila distilleries?

I think Bajatistas need to think this through a little more. :lol:

Of course, DavidE would quickly corner the kosher pickle market in Baja. :light:

[Edited on 10-18-2013 by Hook]

JESSE - 10-18-2013 at 04:46 PM

Any page that gets 100k people saying they had enough should get the attention of the fools down in central Mexico. The page will eventually grow to about 10% of the population, and thats a lot of angry folks to worry about.

DENNIS - 10-18-2013 at 05:02 PM

Secceed.... become independent, attack the US....surrender, and get mountains of foreign aid to rebuild:

The Raton that Roared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse_That_Roared