BajaNomad

The ocean is broken.

Cisco - 10-21-2013 at 11:04 AM

"IT was the silence that made this voyage different from all of those before it.
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Not the absence of sound, exactly.

The wind still whipped the sails and whistled in the rigging. The waves still sloshed against the fibreglass hull.

And there were plenty of other noises: muffled thuds and bumps and scrapes as the boat knocked against pieces of debris.

What was missing was the cries of the seabirds which, on all previous similar voyages, had surrounded the boat.

The birds were missing because the fish were missing.

Exactly 10 years before, when Newcastle yachtsman Ivan Macfadyen had sailed exactly the same course from Melbourne to Osaka, all he'd had to do to catch a fish from the ocean between Brisbane and Japan was throw out a baited line.

"There was not one of the 28 days on that portion of the trip when we didn't catch a good-sized fish to cook up and eat with some rice," Macfadyen recalled.

But this time, on that whole long leg of sea journey, the total catch was two.

No fish. No birds. Hardly a sign of life at all.

"In years gone by I'd gotten used to all the birds and their noises," he said.

"They'd be following the boat, sometimes resting on the mast before taking off again. You'd see flocks of them wheeling over the surface of the sea in the distance, feeding on pilchards."

But in March and April this year, only silence and desolation surrounded his boat, Funnel Web, as it sped across the surface of a haunted ocean.

North of the equator, up above New Guinea, the ocean-racers saw a big fishing boat working a reef in the distance.

"All day it was there, trawling back and forth. It was a big ship, like a mother-ship," he said.

And all night it worked too, under bright floodlights. And in the morning Macfadyen was awoken by his crewman calling out, urgently, that the ship had launched a speedboat.

"Obviously I was worried. We were unarmed and pirates are a real worry in those waters. I thought, if these guys had weapons then we were in deep trouble."

But they weren't pirates, not in the conventional sense, at least. The speedboat came alongside and the Melanesian men aboard offered gifts of fruit and jars of jam and preserves.

"And they gave us five big sugar-bags full of fish," he said.

"They were good, big fish, of all kinds. Some were fresh, but others had obviously been in the sun for a while.

"We told them there was no way we could possibly use all those fish. There were just two of us, with no real place to store or keep them. They just shrugged and told us to tip them overboard. That's what they would have done with them anyway, they said.

"They told us that his was just a small fraction of one day's by-catch. That they were only interested in tuna and to them, everything else was rubbish. It was all killed, all dumped. They just trawled that reef day and night and stripped it of every living thing."

Macfadyen felt sick to his heart. That was one fishing boat among countless more working unseen beyond the horizon, many of them doing exactly the same thing.

No wonder the sea was dead. No wonder his baited lines caught nothing. There was nothing to catch.

If that sounds depressing, it only got worse.

The next leg of the long voyage was from Osaka to San Francisco and for most of that trip the desolation was tinged with nauseous horror and a degree of fear.

"After we left Japan, it felt as if the ocean itself was dead," Macfadyen said.

"We hardly saw any living things. We saw one whale, sort of rolling helplessly on the surface with what looked like a big tumour on its head. It was pretty sickening.

"I've done a lot of miles on the ocean in my life and I'm used to seeing turtles, dolphins, sharks and big flurries of feeding birds. But this time, for 3000 nautical miles there was nothing alive to be seen."

In place of the missing life was garbage in astounding volumes.

"Part of it was the aftermath of the tsunami that hit Japan a couple of years ago. The wave came in over the land, picked up an unbelievable load of stuff and carried it out to sea. And it's still out there, everywhere you look."

Ivan's brother, Glenn, who boarded at Hawaii for the run into the United States, marvelled at the "thousands on thousands" of yellow plastic buoys. The huge tangles of synthetic rope, fishing lines and nets. Pieces of polystyrene foam by the million. And slicks of oil and petrol, everywhere.

Countless hundreds of wooden power poles are out there, snapped off by the killer wave and still trailing their wires in the middle of the sea.

"In years gone by, when you were becalmed by lack of wind, you'd just start your engine and motor on," Ivan said.

Not this time.

"In a lot of places we couldn't start our motor for fear of entangling the propeller in the mass of pieces of rope and cable. That's an unheard of situation, out in the ocean.

"If we did decide to motor we couldn't do it at night, only in the daytime with a lookout on the bow, watching for rubbish.

"On the bow, in the waters above Hawaii, you could see right down into the depths. I could see that the debris isn't just on the surface, it's all the way down. And it's all sizes, from a soft-drink bottle to pieces the size of a big car or truck.

"We saw a factory chimney sticking out of the water, with some kind of boiler thing still attached below the surface. We saw a big container-type thing, just rolling over and over on the waves.

"We were weaving around these pieces of debris. It was like sailing through a garbage tip.

"Below decks you were constantly hearing things hitting against the hull, and you were constantly afraid of hitting something really big. As it was, the hull was scratched and dented all over the place from bits and pieces we never saw."

Plastic was ubiquitous. Bottles, bags and every kind of throwaway domestic item you can imagine, from broken chairs to dustpans, toys and utensils.

And something else. The boat's vivid yellow paint job, never faded by sun or sea in years gone past, reacted with something in the water off Japan, losing its sheen in a strange and unprecedented way.

BACK in Newcastle, Ivan Macfadyen is still coming to terms with the shock and horror of the voyage.

"The ocean is broken," he said, shaking his head in stunned disbelief.

Recognising the problem is vast, and that no organisations or governments appear to have a particular interest in doing anything about it, Macfadyen is looking for ideas.

He plans to lobby government ministers, hoping they might help.

More immediately, he will approach the organisers of Australia's major ocean races, trying to enlist yachties into an international scheme that uses volunteer yachtsmen to monitor debris and marine life.

Macfadyen signed up to this scheme while he was in the US, responding to an approach by US academics who asked yachties to fill in daily survey forms and collect samples for radiation testing - a significant concern in the wake of the tsunami and consequent nuclear power station failure in Japan.
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"I asked them why don't we push for a fleet to go and clean up the mess," he said.

"But they said they'd calculated that the environmental damage from burning the fuel to do that job would be worse than just leaving the debris there.""

motoged - 10-21-2013 at 11:40 AM

Heartbreaking ... :no:

rdrrm8e - 10-21-2013 at 12:03 PM

Bullchit

[Edited on 10-21-2013 by rdrrm8e]

Barry A. - 10-21-2013 at 12:17 PM

Time-----------it's going to take a lot of time----- before the debris either washes ashore, or sinks and otherwise slowly disappears------it's similar to all that pumice floating around for 100's (1000's?)of square miles when a volcano spews stuff out beneath the surface-------it all mostly disappears, eventually------with "time". It's just a fact of life, IMO.

The rampant over-fishing by mankind is entirely another story---------and I believe a very serious problem that has been with us for decades!!!

Barry

Broken ?

MrBillM - 10-21-2013 at 12:33 PM

Call a Plumber ?

I'd say that it's going to drive Cisco crazy, BUT that's already the case.

Despite all of the Governmental Therapy he's sucked up.

For the rest of us, No Worries.

We'll be long gone before the Oceans' illnesses are a problem.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-21-2013 at 01:14 PM

Just another "Spam Story" to try and Scare People into beleiveing something that is Not True.
If you notice the Liberal Commie/Scoialies always try to make People thionk that the "World is Falling""!! They do not have the Ability to present a Positive way to Fix a problem.

Is it the DOPE?? Is it the lace of Teaching?? Are they not able to Learn??

Many of the Liberal Louts have to depend on other peoples words to get along in the Great World.

They will not Survive in the Years to come.

Skeet/Loreto
A Redskin/Redneck Texan

Skipjack Joe - 10-21-2013 at 01:23 PM

How does that work?

A liberal sees junk floating and calls it trash and a conservative looks in the same place and says it's not there?

It's either there or not there. Doesn't take an einstein to tell the difference.

Barry A. - 10-21-2013 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
How does that work?

A liberal sees junk floating and calls it trash and a conservative looks in the same place and says it's not there?

It's either there or not there. Doesn't take an einstein to tell the difference.


HuH???????? Me thinks EVERYBODY calls it "trash". It's just what to do about it that is different.

Barry

rdrrm8e - 10-21-2013 at 02:01 PM

Condom Reef Discovered

Sydney, Australia, 1996
Oceanographic scientists say they have discovered a vast, floating "reef" of the world's disposed condoms in the middle of the South Pacific, about halfway between Tahiti and Antarctica. The phenomenal mass is almost two miles long, an eighth of a mile wide, and in places up to 60 feet deep, the oceanographers say.
Mason Froule, Australian marine biologist at his country's Oceanographic Laboratory Outpost on Macquarie Island, South Pacific, said the bizarre accumulation is explained by a scientific term called "like aggregation"-- that is, the massing of similar objects over short or longer periods of time due to wind or ocean currents, magnetic fields, buoyancy and other conditions.

"It's fairly common in the world's oceans," he said: natural events such as red tides, for example, are instances of "like aggregation." "People with pets that shed lots of hair can see it in their own homes," Froule added. "The dog sheds everywhere in the room, but after falling out, the fur soon collects in a few clumps and masses."

Froule said ocean "reefs" of styrofoam and detergent residues have been observed in the South Pacific and elsewhere for many years, but they are usually broken up by storms before they become large or hazardous. He believes the huge concentration of condoms, not reported before, is more resilient than other "aggregating" ocean materials, and may have been developing for decades. Froule said parts of the newly discovered reef are matted together so densely that "you could almost land a plane on it." "I suppose it would be funny if it didn't pose the hazard it does to marine life and navigation," Froule stated. "I pity any freighter, submarine, or dolphin, for that matter, that might run into it."

The biologist said he and his Australian scientific colleagues will have the reef mapped by satellite and monitored from now on to see if it expands, breaks up, or drifts from its current location (reported at 63 degrees latitude and 154 degrees longitude). Froule said there would not be much point in trying to break up the pulpy mass with explosives or other devices. "It seems pretty indestructible," he said.

The world's industrialized nations are estimated to consume and dispose of nearly 300 million condoms a year. Industry analysts say about a third of the discards become waterborne.:bounce:

motoged - 10-21-2013 at 02:07 PM

Yeah, shoot all dem commies....we gots lots of fish to eat (to hell with our kids and grandchildren...that's not my problem).

Dope and video games....that's the ticket....

Some folks....:rolleyes:

Barry A. - 10-21-2013 at 02:11 PM

We need a law mandating vasectomies, obviously!!!! Down with condoms!!!

I have done my part 40 years ago. No stinkin "condoms" for me!!! :spingrin:

Barry

bufeo - 10-21-2013 at 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rdrrm8e
Condom Reef Discovered

Sydney, Australia, 1996...


To use your term, "Bullchit".

This one has been "floating" :D around the WWW for years.

Allen R

rdrrm8e - 10-21-2013 at 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bufeo
Quote:
Originally posted by rdrrm8e
Condom Reef Discovered

Sydney, Australia, 1996...


To use your term, "Bullchit".

This one has been "floating" :D around the WWW for years.

Allen R


Zackly...!

Sweetwater - 10-21-2013 at 03:13 PM

The Oceans are Dying!

The Oceans are Dying!

Soylent Green is people...............





[Edited on 10-21-2013 by Sweetwater]

fix it???

EdZeranski - 10-21-2013 at 03:41 PM

"The ocean is broken,"

.....Its just so old its hard to find parts.

EdZ

David K - 10-21-2013 at 05:29 PM

LOL... the sky is falling, and the earth is warming... no it's cooling... no it's warming... Climate: IT'S DYNAMIC not STATIC!

The answer from the left: tax more, have less, accept blame.


Oh, and Soylent Green ... yup, it's people:

EVER WONDER ?

captkw - 10-21-2013 at 05:44 PM

Why other life forms (Alians) don't want to enteract/deal with us ??....Thinking out loud again !!! Ooops !!:cool:

Chupacabra - 10-21-2013 at 05:48 PM

It's true.

I was out in my canoe the other day and shot some video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

Chupacabra

An OBVIOUS solution

MrBillM - 10-21-2013 at 06:50 PM

To part of the problem, at least, is Biodegradable Condoms.

Of course, that MIGHT not be a great selling-point.

bajadogs - 10-21-2013 at 07:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
LOL... the sky is falling, and the earth is warming... no it's cooling... no it's warming... Climate: IT'S DYNAMIC not STATIC!

The answer from the left: tax more, have less, accept blame.

Go off-topic!!!

You are a total dill weed!!!

Barry A. - 10-21-2013 at 08:12 PM

I have always loved "dill weed". :spingrin:

barry

walters886 - 10-21-2013 at 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chupacabra
It's true.

I was out in my canoe the other day and shot some video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

Chupacabra


Chupa,

I loved that PSA video as a kid and even more so later when I learned that the famous Indian, Iron Eyes Cody, was actually Italian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody

tx ws

Skipjack Joe - 10-21-2013 at 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rdrrm8e

Mason Froule, Australian marine biologist at his country's Oceanographic Laboratory Outpost on Macquarie Island, South Pacific, said the bizarre accumulation is explained by a scientific term called "like aggregation"-- that is, the massing of similar objects over short or longer periods of time due to wind or ocean currents, magnetic fields, buoyancy and other conditions.

"It's fairly common in the world's oceans," he said: natural events such as red tides, for example, are instances of "like aggregation." "People with pets that shed lots of hair can see it in their own homes," Froule added. "The dog sheds everywhere in the room, but after falling out, the fur soon collects in a few clumps and masses."



I'm not sold on this idea of "like aggregation". Are you?

Red tides don't occur because dinoflagellates are attracted to one another, forming a large mass. The mass is created when a threshold is reached and they reproduce like mad, remove the oxygen, and the dying matter from other life around them provides them with nutrients to reproduce even faster. It's a self sustaining cycle.

Fur balls are created because hair clings to hair physically like velcro. It also clings to rugs. In fact if you have hardwood floors you find more furballs than on a rug.

If I release a small particles of the same size in a stream they should all settle out in the same general area. If the partlcles are larger they would again all settle in the some area, but a different area. To me that's not aggregation. Aggregation is when one seeks out another.

I remember reading this book as a youngster of an area in the Atlantic east of the Canary Islands where all the currents converged upon an area leaving huge fields of sargasso weeds. Old pirate ships would end up there for centuries with people who learned to subsist on various seaweed dishes. There grew a community with members who visited one another with rowboats for social events.

redhilltown - 10-21-2013 at 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by rdrrm8e

Mason Froule, Australian marine biologist at his country's Oceanographic Laboratory Outpost on Macquarie Island, South Pacific, said the bizarre accumulation is explained by a scientific term called "like aggregation"-- that is, the massing of similar objects over short or longer periods of time due to wind or ocean currents, magnetic fields, buoyancy and other conditions.

"It's fairly common in the world's oceans," he said: natural events such as red tides, for example, are instances of "like aggregation." "People with pets that shed lots of hair can see it in their own homes," Froule added. "The dog sheds everywhere in the room, but after falling out, the fur soon collects in a few clumps and masses."



I'm not sold on this idea of "like aggregation". Are you?

Red tides don't occur because dinoflagellates are attracted to one another, forming a large mass. The mass is created when a threshold is reached and they reproduce like mad, remove the oxygen, and the dying matter from other life around them provides them with nutrients to reproduce even faster. It's a self sustaining cycle.

Fur balls are created because hair clings to hair physically like velcro. It also clings to rugs. In fact if you have hardwood floors you find more furballs than on a rug.

If I release a small particles of the same size in a stream they should all settle out in the same general area. If the partlcles are larger they would again all settle in the some area, but a different area. To me that's not aggregation. Aggregation is when one seeks out another.

I remember reading this book as a youngster of an area in the Atlantic east of the Canary Islands where all the currents converged upon an area leaving huge fields of sargasso weeds. Old pirate ships would end up there for centuries with people who learned to subsist on various seaweed dishes. There grew a community with members who visited one another with rowboats for social events.




I'm sorry Joe...but if you are going to use multi syllable words, logic, and science you really need to just butt out of this conversation.

Skipjack Joe - 10-21-2013 at 11:40 PM

My mistake.

I'll stick to pictures. Although you probably won't like them either.

Cardon Man - 10-22-2013 at 07:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
LOL... the sky is falling, and the earth is warming... no it's cooling... no it's warming... Climate: IT'S DYNAMIC not STATIC!

The answer from the left: tax more, have less, accept blame.



What a pointless contribution to this thread. Take the boring left/right stuff to the Off topic.

Cardon Man - 10-22-2013 at 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Just another "Spam Story" to try and Scare People into beleiveing something that is Not True.
If you notice the Liberal Commie/Scoialies always try to make People thionk that the "World is Falling""!! They do not have the Ability to present a Positive way to Fix a problem.

Is it the DOPE?? Is it the lace of Teaching?? Are they not able to Learn??

Many of the Liberal Louts have to depend on other peoples words to get along in the Great World.

They will not Survive in the Years to come.

Skeet/Loreto
A Redskin/Redneck Texan


Can you shed any light on how what you read in the original post leads you to a diatribe on the failings of "Commies" and "liberals"?

Are you aware that in even before the Japan Tsunami there was an area known as the Pacific Trash Vortex, where plastic trash and debris of all kinds are highly concentrated by the North Pacific Gyre?

But then again, maybe you're right...I was on the beach yesterday and saw a lot of rubbish. I wondered where it came from. Perhaps it was "Commies" that cleverly deposited all those plastic bottles and junk on the beach.

Chupacabra - 10-22-2013 at 08:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by walters886
I loved that PSA video as a kid and even more so later when I learned that the famous Indian, Iron Eyes Cody, was actually Italian!


Yeah, the even based an episode of The Sopranos on that premise.

wessongroup - 10-22-2013 at 08:55 AM

Maybe we should talk about "air" ... :biggrin:

"Air pollution, mostly caused by transport, power generation, industrial or agricultural emissions and residential heating and cooking, is already known to raise risks for a wide range of illnesses including respiratory and heart diseases."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/17/us-cancer-pollutio...

Think China is finding out all one would hope to know about air pollution ... just saying

Can Chicken Little Swim ?

MrBillM - 10-22-2013 at 11:01 AM

When the Sky falls into the Broken Ocean, will it Kill the Fish ?

A question only a Liberal can answer ?

Skeet/Loreto - 10-22-2013 at 11:19 AM

Crabaa:
If you are on this Forum long enough you will find several of the Poster who are Commies.Socialse Liberal Louts who always attach The United States especially the Regilous,Rich People, and all of those Old Tradiations such as Slavery.
the post about the ocean being Broken was just another "Blame soneone: type thing.

The Liberal does not have the Ability to Change things or even offer a way/Change to make it better only a Name-Calling bunch of words~!!

For over 38 years I lived and fished the Sea of Cortez, nearly every year going over to San Girogio andGuerrero picking up "Debris" washed upon the shores. I even found and old Single Mast of many years ago along with Cigarettee Lighters from Japan and other Japanese Items.. A long way to travel on the Water.

Don't be fooled by all these Naysayers about the Fish. There is more Fish and there will always be more Fish than anyone can take.

Be and Individual, look at different sides to all things and make a decesion from your own Mind and heart.

Keep in mind the actions and wordes of the Louts and you can see that they will not Survive, remember "survival of the fitest"".


Skeet/Loreto

A Redskin/Indian. Redneck Texan and Proud to be!!!!!!!

sancho - 10-22-2013 at 11:27 AM

Too bad Doug doesn't put a notation alongside someone's
Nomad status, to identify the Anti-Science/Reasearch,
Tea Bagger, Appalachian Hillfolk, so the rest can bypass their posts

vgabndo - 10-22-2013 at 11:49 AM

Can Chicken Little Swim ?

My progressive response would be, no. By the time our over-polluted sky "falls", the sea will already be equally dead.

"Population, when unchecked, increases in a geometrical ratio. Subsistence increases only in an arithmetical ratio." Since the 1700's these premises of Thomas Malthus have held true.

In the effort to keep the two lines on the graph from diverging so far as to precipitate global catastrophe, I predict that man will crap all over his nest before he controls his breeding. This will end badly.

Then nature will do some major population control and if this doesn't precipitate a nuclear winter event, the survivors, Darwins's winners, will likely find that the planet is remarkably resilient and maybe they'll have learned something.

I'd love to know if the humans with dominant fight or flight responses, or the one's whose anterior cingulate cortex is better developed will win the natural selection battle.:coolup:

[Edited on 10-22-2013 by vgabndo]

Mexitron - 10-22-2013 at 12:42 PM

Skeet: " Don't be fooled by all these Naysayers about the Fish. There is more Fish and there will always be more Fish than anyone can take."


Really? Like the carrier pigeon? Or like the near extinction of Sea Otters, Gray Whales and Bison that it took some rational person to whine about to save?

motoged - 10-22-2013 at 01:03 PM

I think there might be some validity to this "aggregation" theory :light:.

Just take BN, for instance. There seems to be a gaggle of right wing ideologists clustering around themselves, and a similar herd of more thoughtful people gathering to share their awareness and knowledge.

Which of these aggregations should be sent to that clot of garbage in the Pacific?

The right wingers will deny that they are in the middle of the chittpile....and, the others will likely recognize their situation and solicit help from both groups to clean it up. :light:

vgabndo - 10-22-2013 at 01:50 PM

Ged, according to Pew, 50% of Americans believe that Jesus is going to kill everyone and take them to everlasting life in the sky DURING their normal life time. Why on earth should they put ANY effort into providing for the future. Would you; if you were so delusional? Wouldn't it be easy if you just KNEW you were right and you didn't have to study the data and deal with the consequences? When they couple this sense of superiority with a moral code which places little value on accountability (Jesus died for your sins) and a nine word explanation of reality, I find it hard to communicate with them.

A true Vonaguttian "chitstorm" is brewing in the sea and in the sky made of both natural and human causes, denial, I judge, won't make the outcome any more positive.:no:

motoged - 10-22-2013 at 02:08 PM

You articulate my thoughts well...:saint:

tripledigitken - 10-22-2013 at 02:14 PM

Aside from a few whale species population increases, there's not much to be positive about regarding the health of our oceans..........

Understanding that has nothing to do with political affiliation.

motoged - 10-22-2013 at 02:38 PM

TDK,
Oh, I wish that were true. If not a political orientation, at least it represents one's values.

Thin line separating these "positions".

tripledigitken - 10-22-2013 at 02:55 PM

The problem is a world wide one involving nations, hell, continents. I don't think many in positions of power are denying that garbage patches exist in virtually every ocean.

[Edited on 10-22-2013 by tripledigitken]

DanO - 10-22-2013 at 03:10 PM

There is no problem. As Skeeter so succinctly put it, this is just another manifestation of nekkid hippies smoking dope. If everyone would just get dressed, sober up and get a haircut, everything would be fine.

:tumble:

motoged - 10-22-2013 at 04:37 PM

DanO,

Great advice....if I wasn't so stoned, I could get off the couch and find my shorts, wifebeater, and flip-flops. :biggrin:


I found a pic of Skeet and his ol'lady:



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=REDNECK-HIPPIE

[Edited on 10-22-2013 by motoged]


[Edited on 10-22-2013 by motoged]


[Edited on 10-22-2013 by motoged]


[Edited on 10-22-2013 by motoged]

David K - 10-22-2013 at 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
There is no problem. As Skeeter so succinctly put it, this is just another manifestation of nekkid hippies smoking dope. If everyone would just get dressed, sober up and get a haircut, everything would be fine.

:tumble:


It is so great to see your posts once again! :cool:

Skeet/Loreto - 10-22-2013 at 04:59 PM

My posts about "The ocean Broken"" comes from:

38 Years fishing , diving, Snorkling, Observing the Sea of Cortes on both sides.

Operating a 22 Ft. Panga for 27 years, fishing with the mesicano Fisherman commercially.

Show this ole boy anyone that can Match my experience there:

Sure wish you could find a good Photo of me on my Mule at one of the Shriners Parades and as far as my wife she is 24 years younger than me. met her when she was 24 and I was 48.

FACTS!!! Gentlemen and I was never a Hippie riding around in a Green VW Bus, smoking Dope and riding Nekid on Motorcycles.

For VAAG; I respect your right to beleive as you do and expect you to Respect my Right to beleive as I want To!!

Here I sat going on 83 years in Good health taking care of a Couple of horses on 5 Acres in the Great Texas Panhandle.

Redneck, Redskin/Irshman Texan having converstaion with a Bunch of Weak-Minded DOPERS.

motoged - 10-22-2013 at 07:20 PM

Skeet,
And we mostly enjoy those conversations ;D

redhilltown - 10-22-2013 at 11:20 PM

I just have to know something and it's driving me crazy: Why doesn't David K. correct Skeet's grammar and spelling!!! :bounce:

Skeet/Loreto - 10-23-2013 at 07:27 AM

hilltown:

There you go trying to change someone to be like you!!!!!

We must all strive to be Individuals!!!

Ateo - 10-23-2013 at 07:31 AM

Skeeter: redhilltown was making a joke bro.

David K - 10-23-2013 at 09:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by redhilltown
I just have to know something and it's driving me crazy: Why doesn't David K. correct Skeet's grammar and spelling!!! :bounce:


I don't do that... never have. ;)

(What I have done is provide the correct spelling of places in Baja... it's a map and history thing :light: }

wessongroup - 10-23-2013 at 09:54 AM

If ya don't think things are changing .... :lol::lol:

motoged - 10-23-2013 at 10:02 AM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Just spit coffee all over my keyboard :lol::lol::lol::lol:

vgabndo - 10-23-2013 at 11:33 AM

"For VAAG; I respect your right to beleive as you do and expect you to Respect my Right to beleive as I want To!!"

Skeet, you have a right to believe any fiction you choose, but you CERTAINLY do not have any right to expect that anyone will respect your mindset. Demanding to be respected for believing in an iron age myth, and voicing your other hateful judgments, while writing and spelling at an elementary school level just reinforces the belief that many of us share; folks who think like you are suffering from arrested development. I hope for your sake it isn't a degenerative disorder.

I don't mean to sell you short, perhaps you actually can communicate in English at the level of a college graduate. (I believe you claimed a degree at some point.) Your arguments would be easier to accept if they were phrased in adult level English.


Also, please explain how the fish that were in the SOC when you fished there so many years ago are expected to STILL BE THERE? The gulf is a dynamic ecosystem and people who earn their living judging the present health of the system seem to disagree rather substantially with your decades-old evidence. How did they get to be wrong, and you to be right?

DanO - 10-23-2013 at 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
There is no problem. As Skeeter so succinctly put it, this is just another manifestation of nekkid hippies smoking dope. If everyone would just get dressed, sober up and get a haircut, everything would be fine.

:tumble:


It is so great to see your posts once again! :cool:

Every once in a while I feel compelled to bring order to chaos. Oddly enough, it happens most often when Skeet posts about nekkid motorcycle riding hippie DOPERS. Just doing my part to keep it real. Peace out.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-23-2013 at 11:57 AM

Now Vag Listen Up!!

The word "Fiction" in your first sentence show your are Pregdiges!!
I did not say that anyone should or should not Respect my beliefs, just that they Respect my right to have my Beliefs!!

Yes a Degree in Police Science Criminal Investigation
Doubt? Check the 1957 Who's Who in American Colleges and Universities.

Arrested Development??

Vag ; I have come from a Poor boy from Texas and to me accolumpished a lot in my Life.
State of California Special Investigator
Insurance Adjuster
Aviation Accident Investigator 18 years
Snap-On Tool Dealer for 10 years Made a Million Dollars
Lived in Baja for a Total of 38 years
Became a Freemason 53 years ago.
Presently a Shriner in amarillo Texas rasing money for the Shriners Hospital for Children at the Galveston Burn Unit where we are developing Skin from the Start!!
Live on 5 Acres with a Wife, 2 Horses,a Dog and a Cat.

Have nearly 6,000 Hours of Flying Time all over the Western United States with at least 1,000 Hours in Baja.

The trouble with you Vag is that you are so "Narrow Minded that you are unable to understand that other people have a right to a belief that is different than yours

I feel sorry for you.

Skeet.

Mexitron - 10-23-2013 at 02:47 PM

Skeet I still don't know how---you bein' a Texan and all---cannot remember the stories of endless rivers of millions of bison herding through Amarillo in the old days and how quickly they were decimated to a few survivors, and not think that can't happen with fish stocks---Atlantic Cod ring a bell? I haven't heard anyone say the fishing in the Sea of Cortez is like it used to be.
Now, I will say it would be unlikely to exterminate smaller fish species completely but we are certainly taking the word "plentiful" out of the equation.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-23-2013 at 03:36 PM

Mexi: Well Taken!
The Bison did not produce millions each year as Fish do.
The Sea of Cortez was changed many years ago when the Coloroda River was nearly stopped. Look at what it has produced to date.
The Fish of the Cortez move in and out of the Area some each year or Some on Cycle.
There are some areas near Populated sites that will slow down as they have and then come back like they did 2 years ago at Mulege.
Look at the Fish Bill Earhart catches all the time on both sides of the Baja. Look at the Whales and Dolphins that keep coming back to the Areas.
there is a lot of Fish out there and a Great Big ocean which is never touched by the Commercials or Sport Fisherman

Who will feed the Japanese if someone forces them to stop Fishing.??

No I do not believe the ocean is Broken.Seems to me all the "Sky is Falling" stuff is put out there to try to Scare People so they will Donate Money for the Talkers to Buy DOPE and go Nekid in Public and try to Breakdown a Tradiation that is in their Weak=minded Thinking a Problem.

monoloco - 10-23-2013 at 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Mexi: Well Taken!
The Bison did not produce millions each year as Fish do.
The Sea of Cortez was changed many years ago when the Coloroda River was nearly stopped. Look at what it has produced to date.
The Fish of the Cortez move in and out of the Area some each year or Some on Cycle.
There are some areas near Populated sites that will slow down as they have and then come back like they did 2 years ago at Mulege.
Look at the Fish Bill Earhart catches all the time on both sides of the Baja. Look at the Whales and Dolphins that keep coming back to the Areas.
there is a lot of Fish out there and a Great Big ocean which is never touched by the Commercials or Sport Fisherman

Who will feed the Japanese if someone forces them to stop Fishing.??

No I do not believe the ocean is Broken.Seems to me all the "Sky is Falling" stuff is put out there to try to Scare People so they will Donate Money for the Talkers to Buy DOPE and go Nekid in Public and try to Breakdown a Tradiation that is in their Weak=minded Thinking a Problem.
There is absolutely no part of the ocean that hasn't been touched by commercial fishing fleets.

Ateo - 10-23-2013 at 05:15 PM

DON'T FEED THE.......................SKEET.

Actually, do it. It's classic comedy.

vgabndo: excellent response. Hope you're doing well amigo.

David K - 10-23-2013 at 05:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Mexi: Well Taken!
The Bison did not produce millions each year as Fish do.
The Sea of Cortez was changed many years ago when the Coloroda River was nearly stopped. Look at what it has produced to date.
The Fish of the Cortez move in and out of the Area some each year or Some on Cycle.
There are some areas near Populated sites that will slow down as they have and then come back like they did 2 years ago at Mulege.
Look at the Fish Bill Earhart catches all the time on both sides of the Baja. Look at the Whales and Dolphins that keep coming back to the Areas.
there is a lot of Fish out there and a Great Big ocean which is never touched by the Commercials or Sport Fisherman

Who will feed the Japanese if someone forces them to stop Fishing.??

No I do not believe the ocean is Broken.Seems to me all the "Sky is Falling" stuff is put out there to try to Scare People so they will Donate Money for the Talkers to Buy DOPE and go Nekid in Public and try to Breakdown a Tradiation that is in their Weak=minded Thinking a Problem.
There is absolutely no part of the ocean that hasn't been touched by commercial fishing fleets.


Really? Do you realize how much bigger the ocean is than the land or how much deeper it can be than the tallest mountains? We know more about Mars and the moon then the ocean.

Now, I am not saying anyone should abuse the resources we have on earth, but the seas are a source for food that we must utilize. We belong here on earth too. :light:

Sweetwater - 10-23-2013 at 06:18 PM

Boys, boys, boys.....

I remember a night on a houseboat on Lake Meade with a large contingent of young couples. We were astounded at the sudden onset of massive flyovers out of Nellis Airforce Base. The night sky held a great array of stars, comets and some of the most obviously outrageous planes, jets and UFO appearing flying vehicles I've ever seen. When we got back to civilization, we learned that Chernobyl had happened that very night and we had been treated to our national reaction.....what does this have to do with the Ocean is Dying?

Well, as we layed on the rooftop of the houseboat, we discussed all the ramifications of our existence and came to the conclusion that humans are another bacterial growth on the culture plate which constitutes the planet. There is no doubt that we can cause change, both good and bad, to our immediate circumstances but it's really a matter of ego that we think we can save or kill the planet. This planet is much more powerful and it's just a miniscule piece of the overall universe. Face up to the fact that we just ain't as tough and influential as we think we are. If the human species ever does develop into a threat, I'm betting that Earth can purge itself of our pitiful threats. It might take a millenium and we wouldn't recognize the results but I'm still placing my bets on the planet. We are not much more than shadows in the wind.........

motoged - 10-23-2013 at 06:25 PM

Can you imagine the response to Skeet's spelling in his profeshunal reports?

Maybe he is at that point in his life when he wants his accomplishments to be recognized and appreciated....and he is his best cheerleader :saint:

Kinda feel sorry for him, kinda respect his efforts (whether or not they were quite as grand as he perceives them to be).

Kinda like the burro that knows his way into town and back....but can two-step when the tune appeals to him.

Too easy a target at times, unfortunately.

Barry A. - 10-23-2013 at 07:21 PM

Skeet's history of accomplishments and great life decisions (living in Baja, etc.) speaks volumes to me--------the rest of this chatter is just noise, to me.

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 10-23-2013 at 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K

We know more about Mars and the moon then the ocean.



That's not true.

Bajaboy - 10-23-2013 at 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by David K

We know more about Mars and the moon then the ocean.



That's not true.


No, David read about it on a Facebook forward so it must be true:?:

redhilltown - 10-24-2013 at 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Ged, according to Pew, 50% of Americans believe that Jesus is going to kill everyone and take them to everlasting life in the sky DURING their normal life time. Why on earth should they put ANY effort into providing for the future. Would you; if you were so delusional? Wouldn't it be easy if you just KNEW you were right and you didn't have to study the data and deal with the consequences? When they couple this sense of superiority with a moral code which places little value on accountability (Jesus died for your sins) and a nine word explanation of reality, I find it hard to communicate with them.

A true Vonaguttian "chitstorm" is brewing in the sea and in the sky made of both natural and human causes, denial, I judge, won't make the outcome any more positive.:no:




Brilliant!!!

bajaemma - 10-24-2013 at 07:22 AM

wow this thread is why 3/4 of people registered on Nomads don't post

vandenberg - 10-24-2013 at 08:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwater
There is no doubt that we can cause change, both good and bad, to our immediate circumstances but it's really a matter of ego that we think we can save or kill the planet. This planet is much more powerful and it's just a miniscule piece of the overall universe. Face up to the fact that we just ain't as tough and influential as we think we are. If the human species ever does develop into a threat, I'm betting that Earth can purge itself of our pitiful threats. It might take a millenium and we wouldn't recognize the results but I'm still placing my bets on the planet. We are not much more than shadows in the wind.........


Well said, and my sentiments exactly.

watizname - 10-24-2013 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwater
There is no doubt that we can cause change, both good and bad, to our immediate circumstances but it's really a matter of ego that we think we can save or kill the planet. This planet is much more powerful and it's just a miniscule piece of the overall universe. Face up to the fact that we just ain't as tough and influential as we think we are. If the human species ever does develop into a threat, I'm betting that Earth can purge itself of our pitiful threats. It might take a millenium and we wouldn't recognize the results but I'm still placing my bets on the planet. We are not much more than shadows in the wind.........




Well said, and my sentiments exactly.



What they said.:yes:

monoloco - 10-24-2013 at 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by watizname
Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwater
There is no doubt that we can cause change, both good and bad, to our immediate circumstances but it's really a matter of ego that we think we can save or kill the planet. This planet is much more powerful and it's just a miniscule piece of the overall universe. Face up to the fact that we just ain't as tough and influential as we think we are. If the human species ever does develop into a threat, I'm betting that Earth can purge itself of our pitiful threats. It might take a millenium and we wouldn't recognize the results but I'm still placing my bets on the planet. We are not much more than shadows in the wind.........




Well said, and my sentiments exactly.



What they said.:yes:
If we don't kill the planet, it won't be from lack of effort.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2013 at 10:09 AM

"The Ocean is not Broken"!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Fish Fish,,,Fish!!!!!!

Donot try to Control what your Grandkids Kid are going to do!! Teach them to look at all sides and make their Minds up as to their Beliefs

These Liberal Louts are so Weak-Minded that they want to control the Future.

Go to Baja Sur and Fish like crazy, enjoy Life!

monoloco - 10-24-2013 at 10:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
"The Ocean is not Broken"!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Fish Fish,,,Fish!!!!!!

Donot try to Control what your Grandkids Kid are going to do!! Teach them to look at all sides and make their Minds up as to their Beliefs

These Liberal Louts are so Weak-Minded that they want to control the Future.

Go to Baja Sur and Fish like crazy, enjoy Life!
When did conservation and the protection of resources become a polarizing issue? We should all want to take care of the planet, and make sure our activities are sustainable, no matter what our political persuasions.

motoged - 10-24-2013 at 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Donot try to Control what your Grandkids Kid are going to do!! Teach them to look at all sides and make their Minds up as to their Beliefs

These Liberal Louts are so Weak-Minded that they want to control the Future.



So, Skeet.....what do you do with YOUR grandchildren? Give them encouragement to make up their own minds.....or follow your dogma?

Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2013 at 10:34 AM

Mogoget:

I taught my Children to Investigate any of their problems then make up their own Minds about that problem,
I donot have any worries about the Future nor do I worry about the Past. I beleive in Now!!

I have never wanted to Control peoples Beliefs. I think that the Individual is much more important than the Group.

As a very Young Kid in Texas my Father told me" Go Hook-up old pete and Jake{The Mules} and plow the lower 20 Acres.

I started to do and made a Mistake and slapped old Jake on the Blindside. He drug me across that Field of Goathead. My Mistake.

I never hit old Jake again while Hooking them up.!!!

Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2013 at 10:38 AM

The big Problems of today are only Addressed by the Liberal Louts as they do not have the Ability to Solve those Problems they encounter.

One of the Dumbest things going today is the Louts trying to blame Slavery on Todays People.

Why do they not offer a Solution to those Problems instead of calling everybody a Racist????

motoged - 10-24-2013 at 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Mogoget:

I taught my Children ....


Motoget....I like it ! More To Get? Something to look forward to! ;D

BajaRat - 10-24-2013 at 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
The big Problems of today are only Addressed by the Liberal Louts as they do not have the Ability to Solve those Problems they encounter.

One of the Dumbest things going today is the Louts trying to blame Slavery on Todays People.

Why do they not offer a Solution to those Problems instead of calling everybody a Racist????



I guess you first have to be able to see or be aware that there is a problem. Sadly, most people formulate their opinions and beliefs from the corporate controlled and owned media. Lucky for them there seems to be an endless supply of cheerleaders to tout any idea that our current path may need some course correction. :cool:

Cardon Man - 10-24-2013 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
We all do, but some think Man is greater than Nature and use that belief to fool the masses and line their pockets or gain control over others. Al Gore comes to mind... and scientists who want government funding to stay employed.


It's troubling that so many people buy into the notion that climate change and the importance of protecting the environment are some sort of conspiracy concocted by evil leftist scientists at the behest of Al Gore. It's a deception generated and perpetuated by the oil and energy industries and their media fronts. Why?...because minimizing pollution and focusing on a healthy environment would take a bite out of their profits. And we all know there is nothing more important than unfettered profit. Man absolutely can...and has...impacted the environment for the worse. There are countless examples all over the globe. To argue otherwise is madness.

Bajaboy - 10-24-2013 at 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
"The Ocean is not Broken"!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Fish Fish,,,Fish!!!!!!

Donot try to Control what your Grandkids Kid are going to do!! Teach them to look at all sides and make their Minds up as to their Beliefs

These Liberal Louts are so Weak-Minded that they want to control the Future.

Go to Baja Sur and Fish like crazy, enjoy Life!
When did conservation and the protection of resources become a polarizing issue? We should all want to take care of the planet, and make sure our activities are sustainable, no matter what our political persuasions.


We all do, but some think Man is greater than Nature and use that belief to fool the masses and line their pockets or gain control over others. Al Gore comes to mind... and scientists who want government funding to stay employed.


So what you're saying is that it's okay to dump my used motor oil in the river....:?:

BajaRat - 10-24-2013 at 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardon Man
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
We all do, but some think Man is greater than Nature and use that belief to fool the masses and line their pockets or gain control over others. Al Gore comes to mind... and scientists who want government funding to stay employed.


It's troubling that so many people buy into the notion that climate change and the importance of protecting the environment are some sort of conspiracy concocted by evil leftist scientists at the behest of Al Gore. It's a deception generated and perpetuated by the oil and energy industries and their media fronts. Why?...because minimizing pollution and focusing on a healthy environment would take a bite out of their profits. And we all know there is nothing more important than unfettered profit. Man absolutely can...and has...impacted the environment for the worse. There are countless examples all over the globe. To argue otherwise is madness.



Spot on Cardon Man. David, put down the pom poms. If we have to hear that same canned answer one more time :?:.
Its old, tiresome and used to get people off the subject that we are f ing up the planet for profit.

DanO - 10-24-2013 at 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaemma
wow this thread is why 3/4 of people registered on Nomads don't post

How exactly do you reach that logical and mathematical conclusion?

Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2013 at 11:35 AM

I taught my Children to make their own Decisions:

One Grandson Graduated from Columbia on a full Paid Scholarship

One GrandDaughter Graduated from Texas Tech as an Honor Student on a Full Scholarship and is now Teaching English in Japan.

One young GrandDaughter is an Ensign in the Navy ROTC at her High School.


We all must ry to teach our Children MORALS. How to FIGHT,Respect the other Person , no matter their Beliefs

.

monoloco - 10-24-2013 at 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
"The Ocean is not Broken"!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Fish Fish,,,Fish!!!!!!

Donot try to Control what your Grandkids Kid are going to do!! Teach them to look at all sides and make their Minds up as to their Beliefs

These Liberal Louts are so Weak-Minded that they want to control the Future.

Go to Baja Sur and Fish like crazy, enjoy Life!
When did conservation and the protection of resources become a polarizing issue? We should all want to take care of the planet, and make sure our activities are sustainable, no matter what our political persuasions.


We all do, but some think Man is greater than Nature and use that belief to fool the masses and line their pockets or gain control over others. Al Gore comes to mind... and scientists who want government funding to stay employed.
That's a overly generalized and cynical take on the motivations of scientists considering that the majority of scientists are in agreement when it comes to the effects of overfishing and the pollution of the oceans by plastics, whether they receive government funding or not. Which by the way, is what this thread was about, so if you want to make a case that there is not fewer fish in the ocean and more garbage, let's see the science, not a political rant.

DanO - 10-24-2013 at 11:46 AM

Morals, shmorals. I've taught my kids to like morels. And chiitakes, chanterelles, porcinis, portabellos . . .

Skipjack Joe - 10-24-2013 at 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaemma
wow this thread is why 3/4 of people registered on Nomads don't post

How exactly do you reach that logical and mathematical conclusion?


I posted:

"Jesus saves but Moses invests"

which annoyed him. I thought it was relevant to the discussion.

Don't know where the fraction came from.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2013 at 12:53 PM

If the ocean ios Broken Why? Is there still Commercial Fisheing?? Why is the Fishing still so Great in the Cortez and the pacific ??

There is some over fishing is spots but if it got real bad as some Louts are saying, the Japanese would be the first to Hollar about it.


No! The ocean will survive after we are gone!! That is if that is the way the Lord sees Fit

Comeon you Liberal Louts. Wake Up! start thinking about all the Good things in life.


.

.

Bajaboy - 10-24-2013 at 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If the ocean ios Broken Why? Is there still Commercial Fisheing?? Why is the Fishing still so Great in the Cortez and the pacific ??

There is some over fishing is spots but if it got real bad as some Louts are saying, the Japanese would be the first to Hollar about it.


No! The ocean will survive after we are gone!! That is if that is the way the Lord sees Fit

Comeon you Liberal Louts. Wake Up! start thinking about all the Good things in life.


.

.


For someone who claims to respect opposing viewpoints, you sure do a lot of name calling:?:

Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2013 at 01:28 PM

boy

Would you suggest a name for the following<

DOPERS
BOOSERS
NEKID IN PUBLIC
BLAIMERS
PARSITES

DanO - 10-24-2013 at 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
boy

Would you suggest a name for the following<

DOPERS
BOOSERS
NEKID IN PUBLIC
BLAIMERS
PARSITES


I'll take a shot at this if you don't mind. Stay with me, some of these are pretty subtle.

DOPERS = Professional cyclists
BOOSERS = St. Louis Cardinals fans (get it, BOOS + LOSERS = BOOSERS?)
NEKID IN PUBLIC = A recurring nightmare
BLAIMERS = Half of all people who are married
PARSITES = Golf courses

How'd I do?

motoged - 10-24-2013 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
boy

Would you suggest a name for the following<

DOPERS
BOOSERS
NEKID IN PUBLIC
BLAIMERS
PARSITES


I'll take a shot at this if you don't mind. Stay with me, some of these are pretty subtle.

DOPERS = Professional cyclists
BOOSERS = St. Louis Cardinals fans (get it, BOOS + LOSERS = BOOSERS?)
NEKID IN PUBLIC = A recurring nightmare
BLAIMERS = Half of all people who are married
PARSITES = Golf courses

How'd I do?




Works for me :cool:

elgatoloco - 10-24-2013 at 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
boy

Would you suggest a name for the following<

DOPERS
BOOSERS
NEKID IN PUBLIC
BLAIMERS
PARSITES




I'll take a shot at this if you don't mind. Stay with me, some of these are pretty subtle.

DOPERS = Professional cyclists
BOOSERS = St. Louis Cardinals fans (get it, BOOS + LOSERS = BOOSERS?)
NEKID IN PUBLIC = A recurring nightmare
BLAIMERS = Half of all people who are married
PARSITES = Golf courses

How'd I do?


:lol::lol: