BajaNomad

Comparative Gas Mileages

RnR - 10-30-2013 at 05:49 PM

With recent forum topics discussing the various attributes of California gas, Mexican gas, short liters, high/low octane, etc. ......

I decided to keep careful records on a recent trip from Nevada, through California, and on down to the East Cape.

So....

1997 Ford F250, 4x4, 460 gas engine, towing 6x10 cargo trailer.

Normal mileage on Nevada gas, unloaded - 10.5 mpg
======================================

Loaded, 300 miles using Nevada gas - 9.5 mpg

Loaded, 550 miles using California gas - 8.7 mpg

Loaded, 950 miles using Mexican gas - 8.0 mpg

Draw your own conclusions.....

(And that was DOWNHILL, right???? Can't wait for the return trip!!):biggrin:

bajagrouper - 10-30-2013 at 05:55 PM

I am just the opposite, In California I get 31.5 on freeways and Mexico I get between 35 and 37.8 on toll roads...

2011 Subaru Outback AWD.......

weebray - 10-30-2013 at 06:14 PM

Everybody, including the pope, lies about their gas mileage.

chuckie - 10-30-2013 at 06:57 PM

With my Dodge Diesel, 2500 4WD, 5 speed manual I get 72 MPG on Mexican Diesel vs 21 MPG on US diesel...Just sayin,,,, (MPG=miles per grins)

Barry A. - 10-30-2013 at 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
Everybody, including the pope, lies about their gas mileage.


WRONG!!!!!! and very cynical. :spingrin:

Barry

TLBaja79 - 10-30-2013 at 07:41 PM

Interesting...

Think less octane in Gas down in Baja?

dasubergeek - 10-30-2013 at 07:41 PM

I can tell a difference with the aditivo...

2002 Honda Accord 4-cyl., 26 mpg highway in California, 25 in Mexico without aditivo, 29 in Mexico with aditivo.

2014 Chevrolet Silverado 8-cyl., 21 mpg highway in California, 23 mpg highway in Mexico with aditivo (haven't tried it yet without aditivo).

vandy - 10-30-2013 at 07:43 PM

About exactly right.
Mexican gas shorted 10% at pimps.
Or do I mean pumps?

Vandy,Vandy<vandy

captkw - 10-30-2013 at 08:02 PM

You have a sick good sense of humor !!!

gas mileage reading

captkw - 10-30-2013 at 08:31 PM

Do Not...base your gas mileage on your ecm,or what you know as a dash board read out !!!!

RnR - 10-30-2013 at 10:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TLBaja79
Interesting...

Think less octane in Gas down in Baja?


Definitely lower octane in Baja. I use premium in mexico. The truck "pings" immediately on the first tank of Magna (when loaded or uphill).

The truck runs great on 89 octane in the states. Switch to the 87 octane that's available in eastern NV or Utah, and the ping appears. Go back to 89, smooth and quiet.

bajadogs - 10-30-2013 at 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
With my Dodge Diesel, 2500 4WD, 5 speed manual I get 72 MPG on Mexican Diesel vs 21 MPG on US diesel...Just sayin,,,, (MPG=miles per grins)


I guess there is a reason you can't find a good used Cummins 2500 4X4 Manual.

Back to topic - The results posted by RnR are totally uncontrolled and prove nothing (no offense RnR). Driving conditions are different in Nevada, Cali, Baja.

We need to put the same car/bike/truck on a track/road/trail under controlled situations using these different fuels. Eliminate the variables. That's the only way. My guess is the difference will not be worth the time you wasted reading my opinion.
;D

willardguy - 10-30-2013 at 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
Everybody, including the pope, lies about their gas mileage.
you know the new popemobile is a 1984 renault, probably does pretty good. not saying he's above fudging the numbers though........:lol:

David K - 10-31-2013 at 07:11 AM

2010 Tacoma V-6 AUTO 4WD...
Hwy. Mileage:
CA and AZ REGULAR empty bed (Costco, 76, or ARCO): 16.5-17.5 mpg
CA and NV PREMIUM empty bed (Shell or Chevron): 18.1-18.4 mpg
PEMEX REGULAR (heavy load + border wait): 19.2 mpg

City Mileage (Costco or ARCO REGULAR): 14.5-15.5, currently testing with Shell Premium.

Have a Fuelly.com account... and shows my current average as 16.5 mpg, but I didn't input several fillups when the mileage was city (low).

David K - 10-31-2013 at 07:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RnR
Quote:
Originally posted by TLBaja79
Interesting...

Think less octane in Gas down in Baja?


Definitely lower octane in Baja. I use premium in mexico. The truck "pings" immediately on the first tank of Magna (when loaded or uphill).

The truck runs great on 89 octane in the states. Switch to the 87 octane that's available in eastern NV or Utah, and the ping appears. Go back to 89, smooth and quiet.


Magna is 87 octane (per their rating system).

bonanza bucko - 10-31-2013 at 07:26 AM

I don't think there is much difference between USA and Mexico in mileage on my 2010 F150 4X4....it's all lousy. Here's my rant about this:

The sticker on the new truck advertised 14 MPG city and 18 MPG highway. I'm a numbers and records freak so I have, as of today, 98210 miles worth of data about that and my truck gets 13.6 MPG day in and day out.

The handy digital readout in the truck always reports about 20% better mileage than that. The owner's manual says the way to measure your mileage is to get the truck up to 55 MPH on a level road and then run it for about 4 miles and read the results on the handy little display. That assumes that your basic American dumb$#@! will believe anything. It is a damned lie.

So I took my truck to the dealer and he said that "the Feds put that sticker on the truck. They measured the mileage and that's what it is." Now ain't that nice? Kinda sounds like we should believe Obama about keeping our doctor and health insurance doesn't it.

One nice thing I found out by being a numbers freak, however: Above 5000 feet in the mountains my F150 gets 18-19 MPG all the time. That has to be caused by the fuel injection system matching the incoming fuel to the oxygen in the air...less O2 so less fuel so less power. But the dealer couldn't figure that out either....his service department didn't want to know the facts.

So...when you buy your next 150 (and I will because it's a good truck) just be ready to read the MPG sticker as the damned lie it is.

BB:-)

RnR - 10-31-2013 at 07:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by RnR
Quote:
Originally posted by TLBaja79
Interesting...

Think less octane in Gas down in Baja?


Definitely lower octane in Baja. I use premium in mexico. The truck "pings" immediately on the first tank of Magna (when loaded or uphill).

The truck runs great on 89 octane in the states. Switch to the 87 octane that's available in eastern NV or Utah, and the ping appears. Go back to 89, smooth and quiet.


Magna is 87 octane (per their rating system).


Well, that explains the ping!

Guess that I always assumed it to be 89 octane.

Currently, the price of premium is not much different than the price of Magna. $3.65/US gal -vs- $3.50/US gal. A whole lot better drive-ability for the extra 15 cents/gal.

Not sure what they use as an octane booster, but, it is nasty stuff. Catch a whiff of it while fueling and your eyes will water and nose/throat will burn. The odor is reminiscent of the old methanol-based "winter blend" gasoline that was discontinued in California, only MUCH more intense.

PaulW - 10-31-2013 at 07:42 AM

Interesting. My car & truck run fine on PMEX87. The sons Patton engine C8 ran fine on PMEX91 and diesels and pings on CA91. The new Boss351/427 Ford crate engine runs fine on PMEX91 and CA91. The fuel in northern Baja is supposed to come from the US except without any of the Ox additives. I do no know how to verify that.
Anyway most of us gear heads were under the belief that the PMEX stuff was pretty good and comparable to AZ, NM, & CO stuff with no Ox additives. And about the same price/gal re PMEX.
Meanwhile your gas mileage using PMEX will be at least 5% less than anyplace in the states due to cheater gas/diesel pumps.
PW

bonanza bucko - 10-31-2013 at 07:55 AM

The way you test for ethanol in the gas is to measure some amount into a clear cup....my wife's measuring cup works if I don't get caught using it:-). Then you note the amount of gas in the cup. Then you add a small amount of water. The ethanol will combine with the water and leave all the gas behind. If you end up with less "gas" than before and more water there is ethanol in the gas. I measured some PEMEX at Gonzaga Bay two days ago and there was no ethanol in it. I love it.
In Mexico they eat the corn and they don't burn it up in their vehicles. They have the brains and balls to prohibit the stupid PCness that forces us to do that.
BB:-)

David K - 10-31-2013 at 08:00 AM

Not being diluted with ethanol is got to be a reason for better mileage on Pemex. 10% ethanol that has only part of the energy of gasoline must cause at least a 5% drop in mileage... while raising the price of food (corn)...?

bufeo - 10-31-2013 at 08:11 AM

I don't know why we all (including me) obsess about gas mileage. The expense is not even close to the amount lost in depreciation...and never mind all the add-ons that we love to brag about...that are the real expenses.

We've owned over fifty vehicles over the past fifty-three years, and I've kept the records on nearly all of them. Because I put gas in their tanks frequently that cost seems to be more prominent, and while that per/mile cost is not negligible I don't lose sleep over it.

The only reason I keep track of mpg is that a sudden loss—or a steady decline over a period of several tanks—is a sign that something might be wrong. I really could not care less if my truck gets 16.5 or 17.3 mpg as long as it's consistent.

Pinging? I haven't had any pinging or rattle from any fuel in years. Up here I use 85 octane in my truck and 87 octane in my wife's car. Though her car has not been to Baja, my truck has and it runs fine (small block V8) on Magna.

Think I'll just keep doin' what I'm doin'.

Allen R

RNR

captkw - 10-31-2013 at 08:19 AM

Hola,, you must have a old truck are something is wrong with your fuel/ign management system...like maybe a bad knock sensor....any truck made from the mid 80's will adjust the mixture and timing to stop pinging and lean mixture !!

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]

Chupacabra - 10-31-2013 at 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Not being diluted with ethanol is got to be a reason for better mileage on Pemex. 10% ethanol that has only part of the energy of gasoline must cause at least a 5% drop in mileage... while raising the price of food (corn)...?


Ethanol contains one oxygen atom (CH3-CH2-OH). Some oil companies were marketing it as "oxygen-enriched gasoline".

Who *wouldn't* want oxygen-enriched gasoline?

On the bright side, alcohol can act as a stabilizer; Seafoam is about 20% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) which helps prevent varnish formation.

Stability of Mexican Gas

Chupacabra - 10-31-2013 at 10:44 AM

On a related topic, I've heard that PEMEX fuel tends to "go bad", because it doesn't have the same level of stabilizers and additives that US fuel does.

I have an old Toyota 4X4 that I use almost exclusively for Baja trips; I very seldom use it at home. As such, I try to burn off all the Mexican gas first before it letting it sit, and I'm not sure that's really necessary.

Does anyone have experience with letting PEMEX gas sit in your vehicle unused for perhaps months at a time?

CHUBA

captkw - 10-31-2013 at 11:14 AM

YOU really don't want the calif ethanol gas to sit in your toy !! I think that in la jolla (blacks B) the gas is E15 and there is no known additive to correct the "phase separation" that ethonal gas does...If you get a chance you tube "Phase separation" freeeking amazing the crap being shoved down are throats !!:?:

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]

RnR - 10-31-2013 at 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chupacabra
On a related topic, I've heard that PEMEX fuel tends to "go bad", because it doesn't have the same level of stabilizers and additives that US fuel does.

Does anyone have experience with letting PEMEX gas sit in your vehicle unused for perhaps months at a time?


Have an old Chevy pickup (carbureted) that sits unused in Baja for about six months at a time.

If I remember to add a bit of Stabil fuel additive to it before I leave, it'll fire right up.

If I forget, nothing except priming it with fresh fuel (half a shot glass straight down the carburetor throat) will get it going.

At the other end of the trip (US side), I have another old Chevy pickup (carbureted) that also sits for about six months. It fires right up, every time, no additives.

So, in my experience, US gas seems to have the better stabilizers than MX gas.....

Barry A. - 10-31-2013 at 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
YOU really don't want the calif ethanol gas to sit in your toy !! I think that in la jolla (blacks B) the gas is E15 and there is no known additive to correct the "phase separation" that ethonal gas does...If you get a chance you tube "Phase separation" freeeking amazing the crap being shoved down are throats !!:?:

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]


Hmmmmm. I always purge my outboard (1984 Mercury 35) just before putting my Whaler away for the winter, but I often have CA gas in the tanks left over. The next year the motor appears to run fine on that old fuel. Am I making a huge mistake using that "old gas".?

Barry

Hola,Barry

captkw - 10-31-2013 at 11:34 AM

Now, that all gas sold in calif. is at least 10 percent ethanol gas....WHILE SITTING WILL LOSE ITS OCTANE ...ooops Damn caps....And on that motor ,,,needs Good gas..I have a TSB (tech servie bullitun) from mercury marine last year to the calif. dealers that states.."Gas sitting 15 days can go bad" and I'm seeing ethanol fuel related problems everyday now... and would highly recommend to run fresh fuel at all times..and retarding the WOT timing 2 degrees is also recommended....the switch from MTBE additives to ethanol raised it's ugy head last year and now, it's a full blown problem for any motor (fuel) that sit's...fuel additives will NOT stop the ethanol related issues...FACT!!! and It the will get worse and ALL calif folks will have issues on chain saws,,weed wackers,,lawn mowers, any motor that sits for long periods of time...as a fellow marine tech posted on marine engine blog posted....Its a government marine tech supplement plan !! Keeping us Busy!!

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]

Barry A. - 10-31-2013 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
Now, that all gas sold in calif. is at least 10 percent ethanol gas....WHILE SITTING WILL LOSE ITS OCTANE ...ooops Damn caps....And on that motor ,,,needs Good gas..I have a TSB (tech servie bullitun) from mercury marine last year to the calif. dealers that states.."Gas sitting 15 days can go bad" and I'm seeing ethanol fuel related problems everyday now... and would highly recommend to run fresh fuel at all times..and retarding the WOT timing 2 degrees is also recommend....the switch from MTBE additives to ethanol raised it's ugy head last year and now, it's a full blown problem for any motor (fuel) that sit's...fuel additives will NOT stop the ethanol related issues...FACT!!! and It the will get worse and ALL calif folks will have issues on chain saws,,weed wackers,,lawn mowers, any motor that sits for long periods of time...as a fellow marine tech posted on marine engine blog posted....Its a government marine tech supplement plan !! Keeping us Busy!!

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]


Thanks, Capt.---good stuff!

Now, can I pour that pre-mixed (oil & gas) boat fuel into my injected pickup to burn it off without hurting anything, in your opinion?

Barry

NO,,NO,,NO

captkw - 10-31-2013 at 11:49 AM

use it for fire starting !!

Barry A. - 10-31-2013 at 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
use it for fire starting !!


DARN!!!!!! thanks for the advice--------this could get relatively expensive as I know I have at least 10 gals in those boat tanks.

Also, I know that I have a full aux. tank (18 gal.) on my '94 Ford Pickup (w/ a 460 V8 ) and the gas is at least a year old. (I seldom drive the truck anymore).

Looks like I have some problems. :mad:

Barry

Almost forgot !!

captkw - 10-31-2013 at 11:56 AM

mid grade or better...never ever use a low grade in a marine motor !! BTW.. A melted piston in a outboard is a UGLY thing to see...costly !!

[Edited on 10-31-2013 by captkw]

Barry A. - 10-31-2013 at 11:58 AM

Wow, I have ALWAYS used 87 oct. in my Mercury 35-------the local boat-moter guy said that was the way to go?!?!?!?!?!?

It gets confusing!!!!

Barry

87 octane

captkw - 10-31-2013 at 12:06 PM

A few years back would have been fine...But,, today mid grade or better and keep the cooling system in top shape and don't over prop...retarding the timing at WOT is recommended for most earlier motors.. and on pre mix its Still a heavy 50 to 1 ratio,,,and the most overlooked parts/service on a outboard is thremastats and running mercurys motor tuner or yamaha's ring free thru the motor...every 100 hrs...its a carbon remover and most guys have never heard of it...Shucks !!!........K&T

Barry A. - 10-31-2013 at 12:16 PM

Many thanks, Capt. Will do. already taking notes. :yes:

Barry

!!fill 'er up, Evil Ess Yooo Vee!!

EdZeranski - 11-2-2013 at 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RnR
With recent forum topics discussing the various attributes of California gas, Mexican gas, short liters, high/low octane, etc. ......


2005 Toyota 4 Runner V8, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8

Definite difference to the better when filling up in AZ after using CA gas with the Jeep, Pemex Magna also. The Toyota doesn't seem to care. Both vehicles are well maintained.:light:

Bob and Susan - 11-2-2013 at 04:50 PM

be assured...mid grade and premium are marketing ploys to get more money out of you...that's it

always buy regular and save the buck

everyone "feels better" when they "think" they are feed their baby better food

you might as well just light your fireplace with money

MY GOD MAN(bob)

captkw - 11-2-2013 at 06:15 PM

There is three grades of auto gas and two ways of measurement in calif.. I assume you have never heard of SAE,,CARB and a whole bunch of others that test fuels....Let me put it this way...weather I'm working on a 5K.dlls motor or a 50k..dlls.motor...I sure in HELL better have study time,,know how..and really know what I'm doing..if not..I would have been out of work a long,long time ago...today the base stock is all about the same..but the better the grade the more additives...If you think you are in a postion to argue with that...knock yourself out..folks and their children depend on me doing my job with all the best of my skills that I can be..THaT,,no one can take from me..And,, its well known here what I do for a living..SO,till you can show me anything that you have a clue about fuels..............BTW,,do you drive a BUG ??

David K - 11-3-2013 at 10:32 AM

captkw, while I have always used 87 octane regular in my V-6 Tacoma (as recommended by Toyota)... I did try using Shell and Chevron Premium on a recent road trip and gained 1-2 mpg increase over using Costco, ARCO, and 76 Regular on the same driving conditions and cargo.

Is it more of an ethanol content thing than an octane thing, if Costco/ARCO has more ethanol than Shell or Chevron?

I am now comparing Shell Regular to Costco Regular for city driving.

I know that ethanol-free PEMEX increases my mileage the most... Isn't better mileage (using less fuel) important anymore vs. burning corn (food) in our cars?

DK &

captkw - 11-3-2013 at 11:18 AM

I wished it was One easy answer...ITS Not!! I do a lot of study and try my best to be update and informed..but the past two years .......its been change by the week...Lots oF PLAYERS IN THE FEILD AND AS OF today the Midwest with its GMO corn is really pushing the ethanol !!! I can say without any problem that in a marine motor run mid top grade fuel...in a car depends on so many factors ......but...think about it... hard to wrong with TOP SHELF !!

monoloco - 11-3-2013 at 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
captkw, while I have always used 87 octane regular in my V-6 Tacoma (as recommended by Toyota)... I did try using Shell and Chevron Premium on a recent road trip and gained 1-2 mpg increase over using Costco, ARCO, and 76 Regular on the same driving conditions and cargo.

Is it more of an ethanol content thing than an octane thing, if Costco/ARCO has more ethanol than Shell or Chevron?

I am now comparing Shell Regular to Costco Regular for city driving.

I know that ethanol-free PEMEX increases my mileage the most... Isn't better mileage (using less fuel) important anymore vs. burning corn (food) in our cars?
The higher the ethanol, the lower your milage will be because ethanol has less energy density than gasoline.

captkw - 11-3-2013 at 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
I wished it was One easy answer...ITS Not!! I do a lot of study and try my best to be update and informed..but the past two years .......its been change by the week...Lots oF PLAYERS IN THE FEILD AND AS OF today the Midwest with its GMO corn is really pushing the ethanol !!! I can say without any problem that in a marine motor run mid top grade fuel...in a car depends on so many factors ......but...think about it... hard to wrong with TOP SHELF !!
Trying to a save buck with cheap parts,,oil and Fuel is false ...in the long run IMO...just like buy cheap fishing gear= you get what you pay for......................Sorta !!

Fatboy - 11-27-2014 at 12:22 PM

Old Topic but what the heck.... I always seem to get better MPG's from Pemex gas than California's gas.

There seems to be less difference between Arizona/Nevada/Utah as compared to Pemex.

Octane seems to be misunderstood to a certain degree. It is not a marketing ploy as Bob implies, it does actually make a difference, but he is probably correct that most of us are just 'throwing' away our money using higher Octane.

Of course 'PREMIUM' fuels may more contain more detergents and stabilizers along with a Higher Octane number so it may be worth it.

HIGHER OCTANE FUEL IS LESS VOLATILE THAN LOWER OCTANE FUELS. In other words it is harder to ignite and possibly slower burning.

As fuel is compressed it also has a rise in temperature. If you continue to compress gasoline at some point it will ignite without any spark. In a diesel engine that is what you want.

In a typical gasoline engine you want the spark to ignite the fuel at a set point in engine rotation (timing) or else you get the dreaded knock as the fuel starts to burn on its own.

Since all cars have varying degrees of compression, some vehicles will compress the fuel more before igniting it with the spark. Up to a certain point the further you compress the fuel before igniting it the more power you will get out of the fuel.

Now it is clear that lower compression engines will not knock on lower Octane fuel. Higher compression engines need higher Octane fuel to avoid knocking.

Most common vehicles on the road today would be considered 'lower compression' vehicles so buying higher Octane fuel is not needed.

Now things are never as simple as that and in this case, as stated earlier, almost all vehicles made in the last 25 years have a Knock Sensor.

The cars onboard computer monitors the Knock Sensor and adjusts the engine, usually, by retarding the timing whenever it determines that knocking is happening.

When you retard the timing you also decrease power output, so all your vehicles that 'run fine' on 85 or 87 octane might be doing so at the expense of power output.

If you tow or live in mountainous terrain you might want to experiment with a higher Octane fuel. You might get better mileage and/or better performance with higher Octane fuel.

For light loads, city driving for example, a lower octane may be fine. You need to experiment with different Octane fuels for your vehicle.

Now aside from Octane which is JUST the relative ease of a certain fuel to burn - lower octane=easier burning, higher octane=harder to burn, there is also the matter of how much 'energy' is in the fuel and Ethanol certainly decreases the energy content, but so do other factors.

According to the EPA the energy content varies as much as 8% depending on the season and the producer.

It would therefore be possible to for Shell, Chevron, Mobil or some other name brand fuel to have 8% more energy in each gallon of gas which would certainly result in better mileage such as DavidK reports.

Gasoline might be one of Americans largest expenses that we have no way of knowing what we are getting except by advertising and gut reactions. We have no easy means to determine good/better/best between the all the gas stations we drive past every day.

Maybe fuel mileage should be expressed in miles per cents and not miles per gallon. So if I spend an extra 20 cents per gallon at Shell but go an extra 2 miles is it worth it?

Here is a comparison ....
Arco is $3.00 per gallon and you get 15mpg with it.
Mobil is $3.20 per gallon and you get 16mpg with it.
Mobil is $3.20 per gallon and you get 17mpg with it.

Which is cheaper per mile...
Arco @15mpg =20 cents per mile
Mobil @16mpg = 20 cents per mile
Mobil @17mpg = 18.8 cents per mile

55steve - 11-27-2014 at 01:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy  
Old Topic but what the heck.... I always seem to get better MPG's from Pemex gas than California's gas.

There seems to be less difference between Arizona/Nevada/Utah as compared to Pemex.

Octane seems to be misunderstood to a certain degree. It is not a marketing ploy as Bob implies, it does actually make a difference, but he is probably correct that most of us are just 'throwing' away our money using higher Octane.

Of course 'PREMIUM' fuels may more contain more detergents and stabilizers along with a Higher Octane number so it may be worth it.

HIGHER OCTANE FUEL IS LESS VOLATILE THAN LOWER OCTANE FUELS. In other words it is harder to ignite and possibly slower burning.

As fuel is compressed it also has a rise in temperature. If you continue to compress gasoline at some point it will ignite without any spark. In a diesel engine that is what you want.

In a typical gasoline engine you want the spark to ignite the fuel at a set point in engine rotation (timing) or else you get the dreaded knock as the fuel starts to burn on its own.

Since all cars have varying degrees of compression, some vehicles will compress the fuel more before igniting it with the spark. Up to a certain point the further you compress the fuel before igniting it the more power you will get out of the fuel.

Now it is clear that lower compression engines will not knock on lower Octane fuel. Higher compression engines need higher Octane fuel to avoid knocking.

Most common vehicles on the road today would be considered 'lower compression' vehicles so buying higher Octane fuel is not needed.

Now things are never as simple as that and in this case, as stated earlier, almost all vehicles made in the last 25 years have a Knock Sensor.

The cars onboard computer monitors the Knock Sensor and adjusts the engine, usually, by retarding the timing whenever it determines that knocking is happening.

When you retard the timing you also decrease power output, so all your vehicles that 'run fine' on 85 or 87 octane might be doing so at the expense of power output.

If you tow or live in mountainous terrain you might want to experiment with a higher Octane fuel. You might get better mileage and/or better performance with higher Octane fuel.

For light loads, city driving for example, a lower octane may be fine. You need to experiment with different Octane fuels for your vehicle.

Now aside from Octane which is JUST the relative ease of a certain fuel to burn - lower octane=easier burning, higher octane=harder to burn, there is also the matter of how much 'energy' is in the fuel and Ethanol certainly decreases the energy content, but so do other factors.

According to the EPA the energy content varies as much as 8% depending on the season and the producer.

It would therefore be possible to for Shell, Chevron, Mobil or some other name brand fuel to have 8% more energy in each gallon of gas which would certainly result in better mileage such as DavidK reports.

Gasoline might be one of Americans largest expenses that we have no way of knowing what we are getting except by advertising and gut reactions. We have no easy means to determine good/better/best between the all the gas stations we drive past every day.

Maybe fuel mileage should be expressed in miles per cents and not miles per gallon. So if I spend an extra 20 cents per gallon at Shell but go an extra 2 miles is it worth it?

Here is a comparison ....
Arco is $3.00 per gallon and you get 15mpg with it.
Mobil is $3.20 per gallon and you get 16mpg with it.
Mobil is $3.20 per gallon and you get 17mpg with it.

Which is cheaper per mile...
Arco @15mpg =20 cents per mile
Mobil @16mpg = 20 cents per mile
Mobil @17mpg = 18.8 cents per mile


You have the right answer!

Most people think that high octane fuel is better or 'hotter' but in reality it's 87 octane with additives to control the burn for use in higher compression engines.
All my vehicles run fine on 87 and the only time I've ever had an engine ping was on returning from a trip to Gonzaga bay, I refueled at an Arco in Calexico and had minor pinging climbing the grade up 8 toward San Diego. I believe that I get better mileage on Pemex but don't have any definitive data to prove it.

Fatboy - 11-27-2014 at 04:22 PM

Personally I do not like ARCO which is funny because I will go to little Mom & Pop gas stations all day but it has been 20 plus years since I went to an ARCO.

Need to check my mileage on some 'better' brands of gas since a 1 mpg increase can pay for a 20 cent swing in my example.... it might be worth to spend more.

David K - 11-27-2014 at 10:40 PM

This was a year old thread, and I did a much more complete comparison between Premium and Regular fuel driving between San Diego and Tucson. I actually got slightly better mileage on 87 octane regular than 91 octane premium. Used Shell and Chevron gasoline. So no reason to pay more for premium if the vehicle is designed for regular.

This was in my 2010 V-6 Tacoma Double Cab. Except for the mountain in California between San Diego and Ocotillo, the rest of the drive is mostly level across the desert.

Here is part of my post on Tacoma World, just 3 months ago:


I drove the signed speed limit or within 2 mph. It was 65 & 70 in California and 65 & 75 in Arizona (with a short 55 section). I topped off before the highway drives, so no in town driving was included.

Going to Tucson on 91 octane I got 18.3 and 18.4 MPG with my two fill ups. Adjusted for the odometer error it is closer to 18.8 and 18.9 MPG.

Going back to San Diego area was on 87 octane I got 19.6 and 17.7 MPG with the two fill ups. Adjusted for odo error it is 20.1 and 18.1 MPG.

19.10 MPG avg. on regular 87 octane.
18.85 MPG avg. on premium 91 octane.

So close as they are nearly identical, but the better figure is regular grade gas, even if they were the same... no reason to buy premium.

The gas in Arizona is about 50 cents a gallon cheaper than here and the pumps there (as they do here) are labeled as containing up to 10% ethanol.

This is the best mileage I have recorded (Tucson to Yuma) beating the previous 19.2 mpg I recorded in Mexico using ethanol-free Pemex gasoline (87 octane). I was heavily loaded for camping and driving fast. Under similar conditions as I just drove, I believe with Pemex, I would be well over 20 mpg.

Fatboy - 11-28-2014 at 08:58 AM

David what about between Shell/Chevron ect and Arco? You hinted at better mileage based on that change...any such change?

rts551 - 11-28-2014 at 09:41 AM

Kinda hard to buy Shell/Chevron in Baja. And seldom do I see a PEMEX sign in USA. Makes any kinda comparison mute doesn't it?

David K - 11-28-2014 at 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy  
David what about between Shell/Chevron ect and Arco? You hinted at better mileage based on that change...any such change?


It is a tough call... at least among people I communicate with offline, the thinking is that ARCO has the most ethanol and thus the lowest MPG. However, all pumps in SoCal have the "May contain up to 10% ethanol" sign. In Arizona I saw the same signs, so it isn't just a stupid California thing. It seems ARCO has 10% and the others not so much?

For a while I was seeing lower MPG numbers from Costco gas as I had using ARCO, and that's why I went to Shell (I was getting up to 20 cents a gallon discount using my Ralphs Card... in Az the Ralphs stores are called Frys and the discount is at 76 stations.). That discount made Shell gas close to the price of Costco gas.

Recently I have seen Moshen fuel trucks delivering at Costco. Not sure if it is that or just a seasonal change in the blend, but my mileage on Costco gas did improve the past few months. Around town driving going from 14/15 to 15/16 mpg.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The question was Premium vs. Regular, and a year ago I replied my findings, so I am responding with August 2014 research that showed me there was no advantage to paying the higher price for premium. The final paragraph includes the numbers on PEMEX MAGNA (87 octane) I recorded from El Rosario to Oceanside a couple years ago. Based on the different driving conditions, I conclude that PEMEX provides better MPG economy than any gasoline sold here. The reason would be NO ETHANOL diluting the gasoline.

Fatboy - 11-28-2014 at 10:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Kinda hard to buy Shell/Chevron in Baja. And seldom do I see a PEMEX sign in USA. Makes any kinda comparison mute doesn't it?


I do not know....I used to be close to empty after driving from Phoenix to San Luis and I would fill up after crossing the border. Same thing coming back from San Felipe I would fill up prior to crossing back into the states.

But now with the larger difference in price I usually fill up on the US side. When you break it down by cost per mile it makes a difference.

The last time I kept detailed figures I was getting 10% better mileage (almost 2 mpg more) using Pemex. So I could save $10 to $15 on those two fill ups with no 'extra' effort.

Fill up now before crossing or fill up after crossing? For $10 and a little thought it is a no brainer.

I am not 'going' out of my way to save this money either.

Now you can say the driving is different in Baja but just looking at the Phoenix to San Luis and the San Luis to Phoenix portions I always used less fuel getting home than going down and it is as close to identical driving as you can do and about 220 miles each way.

In 2012/2013 I did this trip 9 times probably saved closed to a $100...Heck I seen people drive miles to save 3 or 4 cents on a gallon of gas! And when gas was $3.50 a gallon that is 1%!!!!!

David K - 11-28-2014 at 03:12 PM

Thank you Fatboy!

rts551 - 11-28-2014 at 03:25 PM

yes. Iv'e seen people drive miles to save a penny after they reviewed their detailed records:biggrin:

filling up before or after the border is a no brainer and does not require detailed records...nor does it have anything to do with the majority who cross infrequently. makes for god posting though.

Terry28 - 11-28-2014 at 03:31 PM

You guys have way too much free time on your hands!!!!

dasubergeek - 11-28-2014 at 11:32 PM

I only use Shell or Chevron in the US... I filled up at one of the few Arcos that has diesel near me and it was full of gunk, blew my fuel system apart. That was a fun repair.