BajaNomad

Need Help! Have to sign legal documents in Mexico - FMM (FMT?)

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 10:32 AM

I am hoping that someone can help me with this. My father passed away and I have to go to Mexico to sign some legal documents involving some property that I have inherited. The attorney (Notary) told me that I needed a visa but there is a language barrier and I couldn't understand what type of visa I needed.

I then called my local Mexican consulate here in Denver and I was told that am FMM (tourist visa) should be all that I need. However, the person I spoke to seemed unsure and it took me over an hour to get someone on the phone.

If anyone here knows if an FMM (formally FMT) is all I need to sign legal documents in Mexico, please let me know. I have to fly out there soon and this is the last step in the process to get everything put into my name. Thanks!

David K - 12-6-2013 at 10:40 AM

No visa for US citizens to visit Mexico, just an FMM ('Tourist Card')... You need a passport for ID. If in Mexico over 7 days, the FMM costs about $23US, less time it is free.

FMM

bajaguy - 12-6-2013 at 10:40 AM

I believe that you will need an FMM to have 'legal" status while you are in Mexico. Further, if you do not have "legal" status to sign documents, the documents may not be valid.

[Edited on 12-6-2013 by bajaguy]

David K - 12-6-2013 at 10:42 AM

PS, sorry for the loss of your father... If we can be of further assistance, just ask... Nomads come through when times are tough!

The FMM is obtained at the border INM office if you are driving or walking across.

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
I believe that you will need an FMM to have 'legal" status while you are in Mexico.


OK, so hopefully thats the answer. I just need to sign legal documents to get the property put into my name. Thank you very much for the reply. I am worried as I have the communication issue with the attorney and I dont want to show up and be told that I have the wrong visa.

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
PS, sorry for the loss of your father... If we can be of further assistance, just ask... Nomads come through when times are tough!

The FMM is obtained at the border INM office if you are driving or walking across.


Thank you very much. :)

bajaguy - 12-6-2013 at 11:08 AM

Non-residents can buy property or sign contracts with an FMM so you "should" be OK
Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
I believe that you will need an FMM to have 'legal" status while you are in Mexico.


OK, so hopefully thats the answer. I just need to sign legal documents to get the property put into my name. Thank you very much for the reply. I am worried as I have the communication issue with the attorney and I dont want to show up and be told that I have the wrong visa.

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 11:10 AM

Thank you! I just spoke to a real estate agent in Mexico that said he thought that as well. I will be good to go then, I will just stop at the border in TJ when crossing and get my FMM right there. Perfect, thanks to all of you very much!

DENNIS - 12-6-2013 at 11:11 AM

There is a good chance the Notario is referring to something more involved than "tourist" documentation since you, being a new property owner, will no longer be considered a tourist.
It seems you've been tossed between the rock and the hard place and need further clarification from the Notario.


Sorry for your loss, and best of luck on the outcome.

oladulce - 12-6-2013 at 11:51 AM

One option would be to obtain an FMM document and where it asks "Type of trip" you could check "Business".

We were given these instructions by our attorney several years ago when there was a possibility we'd have to come down to appear in court. This was before we became Mex residents and were still entering the country (and owning property) using tourist cards (FMTs). He said for that one trip we should call it "Business" rather than "Tourist" on the FMM.

But for our first 3 properties and fideicomisos, the Notarios accepted our current "tourist" FMTs as proof that we'd entered the country legally to finalize the paperwork so I think as long as you get the FMM, you should be fine.

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oladulce
One option would be to obtain an FMM document and where it asks "Type of trip" you could check "Business".

We were given these instructions by our attorney several years ago when there was a possibility we'd have to come down to appear in court. This was before we became Mex residents and were still entering the country (and owning property) using tourist cards (FMTs). He said for that one trip we should call it "Business" rather than "Tourist" on the FMM.

But for our first 3 properties and fideicomisos, the Notarios accepted our current "tourist" FMTs as proof that we'd entered the country legally to finalize the paperwork so I think as long as you get the FMM, you should be fine.


Thank you very much. I will make sure that I mark my trip as "business". :)

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
There is a good chance the Notario is referring to something more involved than "tourist" documentation since you, being a new property owner, will no longer be considered a tourist.
It seems you've been tossed between the rock and the hard place and need further clarification from the Notario.


Sorry for your loss, and best of luck on the outcome.


Thank you

David K - 12-6-2013 at 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
There is a good chance the Notario is referring to something more involved than "tourist" documentation since you, being a new property owner, will no longer be considered a tourist.
It seems you've been tossed between the rock and the hard place and need further clarification from the Notario.


Sorry for your loss, and best of luck on the outcome.


Dennis, I believe that when it was an FM-T, that it was only for 'tourist activities' (vacationing, no property could be left behind in Mexico). Since it was changed to an 'FMM' a couple years ago, it is now a 'multi-use' permit that allows tourists to make a purchase BEFORE they obtain the correct FM-3 or other visa when they convert from a tourist to being a 'part-time resident with property left in Mexico.

A tourist (after all) is someone who visits someplace on a vacation for a limited part of the year. A part time resident is someone who returns to the same property where they have leased or bought. No doubt there are MANY people who have bought, leased, or left property in Mexico and never made the effort to get the correct visa. I think these folks know their legal rights to keep their property are diminished without doing the correct paperwork with the government.

DENNIS - 12-6-2013 at 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K


Dennis, I believe that when it was an FM-T, that it was only for 'tourist activities' (vacationing, no property could be left behind in Mexico). Since it was changed to an 'FMM' a couple years ago, it is now a 'multi-use' permit that allows tourists to make a purchase BEFORE they obtain the correct FM-3 or other visa when they convert from a tourist to being a 'part-time resident with property left in Mexico.




OK...I know what you mean, but I just haven't seen it carved in stone as such.
Can you show me? I'm just curious. Thanks, David.

DENNIS - 12-6-2013 at 12:39 PM

DenverDano........I hope you'll come back here and give us the outcome of your question. It may be of use in the future [not that anything stays the same for long around here].

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
DenverDano........I hope you'll come back here and give us the outcome of your question. It may be of use in the future [not that anything stays the same for long around here].


I will for sure. :)

BajaUtah - 12-6-2013 at 12:56 PM

DenverDano -

Sorry to hear about your Dad.

I can only add that I have just finished up a Fideicomiso last month using an FMM I obtained on my flight to Cabo. It didn't raise an eyebrow from the Bank or the Notario.

As a gringo who's spanish doesn't get too much past "donde esta los banjos" I can say this process would not have been possible without the help of a person who is a native speaker and is very familiar with the process. If you feel comfortable telling the group where you are heading maybe we/us/them can make a recommendation for a person in the area you could bring along to help with the process. The person I used was recommended to me by others and while I did pay for their time she and her husband have since become friends.

Buena fortuna

David K - 12-6-2013 at 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by David K


Dennis, I believe that when it was an FM-T, that it was only for 'tourist activities' (vacationing, no property could be left behind in Mexico). Since it was changed to an 'FMM' a couple years ago, it is now a 'multi-use' permit that allows tourists to make a purchase BEFORE they obtain the correct FM-3 or other visa when they convert from a tourist to being a 'part-time resident with property left in Mexico.




OK...I know what you mean, but I just haven't seen it carved in stone as such.
Can you show me? I'm just curious. Thanks, David.


I wish! There hasn't been a thing on a Federal site or Federal paper posted that gives specifics on the FMM as it applies to the peninsula. Baja California has special rules being that it is almost an island and so closely associated to the U.S. state of California.

The main question is to verify if the past published rules have changed:
How long can you stay in the 'Border Zone' without a tourist card (used to be 72 hours)?
Where is the southern limit of the 'Border Zone' (used to be Maneadero and San Felipe)?

When the INM checkpoint was closed at Maneadero and reopened at Guerrero Negro (state border), it would seem to be the entire northern state of Baja California was now in the 'Border Zone' and state tourism people even said so on Baja Talk Radio... but if you were staying longer than 72 hours you still needed one, and up to 7 days it is free. The problem is that state officials do not have anything to do with INM rules and they can say anything to promote travel to Baja California. Even the San Felipe corredor being in the zone is suspect, as I have seen Mexicali as being the limit, in print.

DENNIS - 12-6-2013 at 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaUtah

I can only add that I have just finished up a Fideicomiso last month using an FMM I obtained on my flight to Cabo. It didn't raise an eyebrow from the Bank or the Notario.



Hope your assessment is correct although, judging from what I've seen happen here, dealing with probate in Mexico is a whole different can of worms than dealing with a Fideicomiso.

We'll see. :light:


oooops...forgot my manners:

Welcome to BajaNomad.




.

[Edited on 12-6-2013 by DENNIS]

shari - 12-6-2013 at 04:23 PM

Welcome to the forum Dano...I highly recommend taking a translator with you for this transaction. Where do you have to sign the papers? If you wish, you can U2U...private message me...it's up in the right corner by the Log in thingy. I ask because perhaps we can suggest someone for you depending on where you are going.

toneart - 12-6-2013 at 05:19 PM

This is a complicated issue. You will get many different answers here on the BN Forum. Most of them valid, based on their personal experience. Something we are all aware of is that laws, procedures and answers can differ depending on which Mexican official you talk to. And...the laws can change in an instant.

You may not be able to sign the documents with only an FMM, and yet you being in the country legally would not be an issue.

If there is a transference of property, you will most certainly have to do it through a Notario. They are government appointed, important officials who are basically real estate lawyers. Yes, take an interprerter with you for absolute clarification of the documents and the conversation. The Notorio will tell you if the FMM is sufficient to sigh the documents. If not, he can tell you what you need and where to get it. Be prepared for this to take more than one visit. These things can get drawn out for quite awhile.

Hopefully, the FMM will suffice, the red tape is minimal and you will have a successful experience. Best of Luck and I am so sorry for the loss of your father.

BajaNomad - 12-6-2013 at 07:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
You need a passport for ID.


As noted by David.... want to make sure you're aware that you now must have a valid passport - or passport card - to obtain the FMM.






[Edited on 12-7-2013 by BajaNomad]

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 07:17 PM

Thanks to all of you. My fathers attorney that set up his fideicomiso is a notary and is the gentleman that is helping me. Between everything you have all said, what the real estate agent who was a friend of my fathers told me and what I was able to get from the notary today all I will need is the FMM, my birth certificate apostille and my fathers death certificate apostille along with my passport.

The notary also told me that he can arrange for a translator to translate the documents completely and to be there with me to explain what I am signing. While I am not positive, I believe what is happening is that the fideicomiso will transfer into my name as my fathers only heir and this should complete the process. Then I can arrange to sell the property, at that point I believe I will need a FM3.

I am going the week after next and am going to try and accomplish the entire thing in a single day. Flying in first thing, getting the FMM at the border, driving to Ensenada, signing papers, then getting back to San Diego for a late flight out. If I get stuck, I will just stay the night. I think I can pull this off based on all of my prior trips there, the only unknown is the time it will take me to get the FMM and then how many hours I will be in the long line of cars at the border on the way back.

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. Who knows, maybe I will keep the property and build a home on it. My understanding it is in one of the best areas of Ensenada, its gated and its right before you get to Ensenada so its closer to the states for americans that want to live there.

Thanks again to everyone!

DENNIS - 12-6-2013 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano
its gated and its right before you get to Ensenada so its closer to the states for americans that want to live there.




Exactly where?

I, among a few others here, are familiar with the area.



.

[Edited on 12-7-2013 by DENNIS]

bajagrouper - 12-6-2013 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
There is a good chance the Notario is referring to something more involved than "tourist" documentation since you, being a new property owner, will no longer be considered a tourist.
It seems you've been tossed between the rock and the hard place and need further clarification from the Notario.


Sorry for your loss, and best of luck on the outcome.


Dennis, I believe that when it was an FM-T, that it was only for 'tourist activities' (vacationing, no property could be left behind in Mexico). Since it was changed to an 'FMM' a couple years ago, it is now a 'multi-use' permit that allows tourists to make a purchase BEFORE they obtain the correct FM-3 or other visa when they convert from a tourist to being a 'part-time resident with property left in Mexico.

A tourist (after all) is someone who visits someplace on a vacation for a limited part of the year. A part time resident is someone who returns to the same property where they have leased or bought. No doubt there are MANY people who have bought, leased, or left property in Mexico and never made the effort to get the correct visa. I think these folks know their legal rights to keep their property are diminished without doing the correct paperwork with the government.



Wrong again Davvvid, I bought my beach house with a Fmt and my ranch inland with an FMM.. as long as you are in the country legally you can buy property and open a bank account, in fact it used to say that on the front of an Fmt.......

By the way in the Fidicomiso there is a line for beneficiary, where your name should be, so Death certificate,passport and FMM should be all you need....sorry for your loss

[Edited on 12-7-2013 by bajagrouper]

DenverDano - 12-6-2013 at 07:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano
its gated and its right before you get to Ensenada so its closer to the states for americans that want to live there.




Exactly where?

I, among a few others here, are familiar with the area.



.

[Edited on 12-7-2013 by DENNIS]


Cibola Del Mar

David K - 12-7-2013 at 12:14 AM

Wrong Again??? Okay, I will try and be more accurate... but people I know who do live in Mexico have shared the details with me.

Nothing stops anyone from handing over money and buying something... Never said you couldn't do that.

I did say that to have legal recognition to live in Mexico (part or full time) you need (legally) to have the correct visa and not just a tourist card.

I was talking about the old FM-T.

bajaguy - 12-7-2013 at 07:53 AM

Welcome to the board, and to Ensenada. When will you be here???

If you need help with anything, reach out. Plenty of Nomads in the area.
Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano

Cibola Del Mar

DENNIS - 12-7-2013 at 08:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano


Cibola Del Mar



Nice!!!!

cessna821 - 12-7-2013 at 09:22 AM

Yes, you are right with that comment Shari.

An English speaking Mexican national would be better than nothing, but for the final legals an accredited translator will be necessary in my experience, and a Mexican would know where to locate one.

The Notarios are all good people, they have to be, but most do not speak or write in English when it comes to documentation.

DenverDano - 1-21-2014 at 09:38 AM

Sorry for the delayed update but I figured I would post this in case others are having this concern.

So I was able to sign all of the legal documents with the FMM and did so as I described above.

I flew into San Diego and stopped at the border. I was able to get my FMM and I also marked the purpose of travel "Business" (I believe the cost was under $25) and I traveled to Ensenada to meet with my attorney (Notary). I was able to sign all of the documents and get things in motion to change the property over to my name.

So at least as of the last month or so all that was required was to have my FMM. :)

Hope this helps others. Now off to get things permanent in my name and then to sell. It really is a beautiful area and the lots are completely empty ready for someone to build their dream home.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 09:40 AM

Denver, sorry for the loss of your dad. What part of Baja are you going to?

DenverDano - 1-21-2014 at 09:42 AM

Ensenada.

Everything is done for now and the wheels are in motion to transfer the property into my name. I do not need to return to sign any documents until the property gets sold. I am looking forward to putting it on the market but need to get through these last few hoops of the process.

BajaBlanca - 1-21-2014 at 09:49 AM

Can you post some pics of the house?

DenverDano - 1-21-2014 at 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Can you post some pics of the house?


There is no house, just a lot(s). Its perfect for someone that wants to build the house. My Dad had plans and was going to build it but never had a chance.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 02:42 PM

Yes DENNIS speaks surprisingly good Spanish!!
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano
its gated and its right before you get to Ensenada so its closer to the states for americans that want to live there.




Exactly where?

I, among a few others here, are familiar with the area.



.

[Edited on 12-7-2013 by DENNIS]

DenverDano - 10-30-2014 at 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Can you post some pics of the house?


I know this is an older post from when I was dealing with this, but I now have pictures, listing and an English speaking real estate agent.

If this is against the board rules, someone please remove it. Otherwise, here is a link with everything about the property.

http://www.ensenadaland.net/Ensenada/Baja_California/Lots_an...

David K - 10-30-2014 at 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DenverDano
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Can you post some pics of the house?


I know this is an older post from when I was dealing with this, but I now have pictures, listing and an English speaking real estate agent.

If this is against the board rules, someone please remove it. Otherwise, here is a link with everything about the property.

http://www.ensenadaland.net/Ensenada/Baja_California/Lots_an...


Posted in the correct 'ads' forum on Nomad is permitted, here is the forum for real estate for sale: http://forums.bajanomad.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=7