BajaNomad

INAPAM CARD HOLDER DISCRIMINATION IN LORETO?

Marla Daily - 12-16-2013 at 06:15 PM

In Loreto, Mexicans with an INAPAM card are given a 50% discount on their property taxes if they are paid in December. Non-Mexicans (Americans, Canadians, etc.) with an INAPAM card are only given a 30% discount for taxes paid in December. I was told the cabildo (city council) passed this as a local law, and there "are no exceptions." An INAPAM card is a federal status and as long as the regulations are met (age, etc.), there is no requirement for citizenship. In fact, the card was designed to "lure" Americans to retire in Mexico.

It's not the $, but rather the intent and idea of this law. (Americans must pay more.) I've asked for a meeting with the city lawyer and will report back.

Mula - 12-16-2013 at 06:20 PM

It's the same here in Lopez. 30% only even with the INAPAM card.

vandenberg - 12-16-2013 at 06:21 PM

We called them on this last year and were dismissed with a shrug and the statement that this was only for Mexican nationals.

It was honored a few years ago however.

Used to be half off your water bill. That went by the wayside also.

[Edited on 12-17-2013 by vandenberg]

weebray - 12-16-2013 at 06:28 PM

Maria, Maria, Several years ago, here in La Paz, we also smugly waltz in with our "old peoples" card in hand demanding a 50% discount on our prop. taxes. We were politely advised that this was only for Mexican citizens. Well, I tell you, I was outraged. But by the time I got home 10 min. later I was over it. You should be happy they gave you the card in the first place. They don't even give them out to "gringos" at some offices. All that discrimination stuff is for the lawyers north of the border. Go find a real battle to fight, this one's a dead horse.

Mula - 12-16-2013 at 06:41 PM

I do get 50% off my water bill here in Lopez.

The INAPAM number is right on my bill.

Mula - 12-16-2013 at 06:43 PM

However, I love it when I go NOB and show them my CURP card, Mexico Driver's License, Seguro Popular card, INAPAM and Residente card.

People are amazed.

Marla Daily - 12-16-2013 at 06:53 PM

The INAPAM card is part of a program by the Mexican federal government designed to enhance the quality of life for senior citizens. Formerly known as the INSEN card, it offers retirement benefits in Mexico for all legal residents—Mexican AND foreign—over the age of 60. (INAPAM stands for Instituto Nacional de las Personas Adultas Mayores.)

Weebray—I was neither smug, nor did I waltz, nor did I demand, nor is my name Maria for that matter. I simply stated the facts of my experience, and inquiring minds are just that. Nothing I have researched indicates there are two sets of discounts—one for Mexican seniors and one for Foreigner seniors.

BajaBlanca - 12-16-2013 at 07:56 PM

We get half off our house water bill with the card, but not at the B&B.

BajaBlanca - 12-16-2013 at 07:58 PM

I should add that Les is a resident, but not a citizen. Yet.

rts551 - 12-16-2013 at 08:00 PM

Blanca...I believe thats because the special rates are for your primary residence only.

Mula - 12-17-2013 at 06:18 AM

Right.

The INAPAM card discount is only for your primary residence and not a business.

dtutko1 - 12-17-2013 at 07:13 AM

I received the 30% discount here in Todos Santos in Nov. w/o the INAPAM card. The local water co. gives no discounts. What other benefits with the card?

DaliDali - 12-17-2013 at 07:53 AM

Yesterday I was in the Loreto water office to pay my water bill.

The person in front of me was an elderly lady and I could see her old age card and her bill easily.

Her bill was 56 pesos. Mine, even with the old man card (25% discount) was 285 pesos.

Loreto used to honor the old man card at 50% discount for the water bill, but the City fathers decided that Norte Americanos were "rich enough" to pay more....hence the decrease in discount from 50% to 25%.
As best as I can determine, Mexican nationals still get the 50% old peoples discounts.

Water companies are not a Federal or State entity. They are operated by the municipalities in which they service.
It is not known if those water companies get some State funding, funneled though the towns or not.

I don't have a beef with it....elderly Mexicans are more often than not, very cash strapped and live very meagerly and many are in dire poverty....dependent on children or other close relatives for their daily lives.

Hook - 12-17-2013 at 07:58 AM

Is everyone at a flat rate, Dali, or do you have meters?

rhintransit - 12-17-2013 at 09:07 AM

Dali…that's my rate, with discount, in Nopolo/Loreto Bay…we have a flat rate out here. I'm sure it reflects the cost of putting in the system, not reading the meters, etc. the older woman you saw probably has a meter on her place, or none as is not unusual around here.

I got the standard 30% discount on my property taxes. fine with me.

DaliDali - 12-17-2013 at 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Is everyone at a flat rate, Dali, or do you have meters?


Meter si, but they have not read it since installation, which has been a couple of years now. So in effect, the rate is flat every month.

Maybe because it's behind a rock property line wall and the readers can't get to it.
To read it, they would have to enter my property.

I did hear a rumor afoot that would place the meters in a vault below the sidewalk...much the same as in USA towns, and would be readable by your friendly meter reader.
Long time off me thinks, due to cash strapped municipos.

Slightly on topic.....I asked a year ago why the local water office cannot set up an "auto" bill pay with a bank here. Much like CFE and Telmex does now.

Can't do it.....the banks want to much of a cut to set up and handle a auto pay system. Local water providers are small spuds, whereas CFE and Telmex are megamonsters and can pay the tolls to the banks.

[Edited on 12-17-2013 by DaliDali]

INAPAM Card application process

Mulegena - 12-17-2013 at 09:47 AM

How and where does one go about getting this card, please?

elizabeth - 12-17-2013 at 10:51 AM

There really is another way to see this beyond discrimination.

I think it's perfectly fair to only offer the inapam property tax reduction to citizens. The old age card offers some relief to the elderly. The vast majority of expats are substantially better off than the average elderly mexican citizen. And given the small amount of the tax bill and the municipal need I'm fine with paying my fair share.

I do have an old lady card, and use it for some things. I use it for water, and I use it for the 20% and 15% discounts on airlines. If I'm doing a big day of many museums in DF, I'll use it if I remember. I don't use it for the busses, because there are only a few inapam seats available, and I figure others need the discount more than I do.

Really, having gone from $6000 dollars a year in property tax in Stinson Beach to less than $100 for each the properties I own, I'm over the moon! I never even thought to try for more than the standard 30% early payment!

weebray - 12-17-2013 at 11:27 AM

Good on you Elizabeth for thinking like a Mexican. They are a practical people and, unlike NOB allow for some common sense in place of pedantic legal mindfork of the "other" people that live in the north of north America. By the by, if you read my post, I did not say you smugly waltzed in, I said I did. I was trying to point out that you are thinking like a gringo. We all agree the $$$ is ludicrously low. Why waste your time on a non-issue. There are other really important fish to fry. I'll leave it to my favorite author, Ed Abbey: "Life's not fair, and it's just not fair that life's not fair."

DaliDali - 12-17-2013 at 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
How and where does one go about getting this card, please?


The local DIF office issued mine.
Take your passport and proof of residency. CFE bill will work.

[Edited on 12-17-2013 by DaliDali]

Mula - 12-17-2013 at 01:56 PM

Have to be 60 or is it 62?

And go to the local DIF.

Marla Daily - 12-17-2013 at 07:19 PM

Hi—I read it on the internet doing research about INAPAM. I also read there are now more than a million retired Americans living in Mexico. (The most popular places: #1 Lake Chapala; #2 San Miguel de Allende; #3 Puerto Vallarta; #4 Baja California Sur; #5 Mazatlan; #6 Huatalco, #7 Puerto Escondido, #8 Merida and #9 the River Maya.)

There are dozens of sites that describe the card and its discounts. With an INAPAM card, discounts include medical care, airline and bus tickets; entrance fees to concerts, museums, and archaeological sites; and on property taxes. No one over 60 is forced to use the card. It is available to those who would like it.

As an aside, non-discriminatory laws are the framework which define civilized society. The Mexican constitution forbids discrimination against non-citizen residents. I would rather politely question inequitable practices in my little town before participating in supporting them blindly, no matter which side of the fence one is on.

bajaguy - 12-17-2013 at 07:57 PM

I have used my card in and around Ensenada. Got a great discount at COSTCO on a major purchase

Hook - 12-17-2013 at 08:05 PM

I hear what you're saying, lencho, but it's still discrimination. Period. Regardless of whether it's more fair to the poor locals or not, it's supposedly against the law.

And if they can ignore that law, then they can ignore laws protecting a foreigner's right to own land or own a boat in this country or whatever they choose.

Maybe the next land reform movement in Mexico will be at the expense of "rich" foreigners like you and me and to the benefit of the poor Mexicans. Would that be OK?

It's a slippery slope..............even if my example is very unlikely.

weebray - 12-18-2013 at 11:51 AM

Lencho, You put a final exclamation point to this dead horse. Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comment.

vandenberg - 12-18-2013 at 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Why should it subsidize an outsider who having made little or no previous investment into the society, suddenly arrives and expects the same support as someone who passed a whole lifetime contributing to the local energy pool? I'm impressed that foreigners can even qualify for these cards...


Although we've been here over 20 years and I have the old Insen card, you're making a very valid point.
I was surprised when my Mexican friends told me I was eligible.
For most expats it's just something of a bonus, since most can readily pay the freight without this subsidy.

Have to admit I took advantage of it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, kind off. :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 12-18-2013 by vandenberg]