BajaNomad

Rules on Mexico Trust

measomsan - 1-18-2014 at 07:25 AM

We have a house in Los Cabo area. It is in a trust and all is good. My question is what are the rules ? We have had it for 5 years or so and remember you can sell it, and I think give it to someone. Or is that only when you kick the bucket? Can you give it to someone while you are still alive?

Shawndy - 1-18-2014 at 07:58 AM

I'll take it :lol:

bajajudy - 1-18-2014 at 08:02 AM

Any chances to the trust will cost you.

Wally - 1-18-2014 at 08:16 AM

It's called a Fideicomiso and any search engine can provide you lots and lots of information.

larryC - 1-18-2014 at 08:32 AM

I don't know why you couldn't give it away. You can will it to someone and sell it and if you can't give it away then just sell it for a peso. The transfer fees will probably be in the thousands of dollars though.

cliffh - 1-18-2014 at 09:04 AM

Make sure you have a mexican will, or it is a nightmare for who ever.

DianaT - 1-18-2014 at 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by measomsan
We have a house in Los Cabo area. It is in a trust and all is good. My question is what are the rules ? We have had it for 5 years or so and remember you can sell it, and I think give it to someone. Or is that only when you kick the bucket? Can you give it to someone while you are still alive?


I do not believe that a trust can be transferred to a new buyer anymore --
When we sold our place the buyer had to obtain a new trust and we had to pay to the bank to end our trust.

mtnpop - 1-18-2014 at 09:49 AM

Most recent info we have that you can transfer a fideicomiso to a new owner and the cost is somewhat lower than doing a complete new fideicomiso..
The current fideicomiso must be current in fees as well as the property taxes, utilities, etc... If the bank payment is in arrears then the seller must catch up the fees or make a deal with the buyer... This allows the current Fidei to be extinguished... terms used by our local attorney...
Several have been done in our park in the last year or so...unless something has changed pretty recently...
good luck

ncampion - 1-18-2014 at 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by measomsan
We have a house in Los Cabo area. It is in a trust and all is good. My question is what are the rules ? We have had it for 5 years or so and remember you can sell it, and I think give it to someone. Or is that only when you kick the bucket? Can you give it to someone while you are still alive?


I do not believe that a trust can be transferred to a new buyer anymore --
When we sold our place the buyer had to obtain a new trust and we had to pay to the bank to end our trust.


Friends here in Loreto recently sold their home that was held in a fideicomiso and they were able to transfer it to the new owner at substantially less cost than a new one, so I'm pretty sure this is still possible. This happened about 4 months ago. It may depend on the bank.

DianaT - 1-18-2014 at 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncampion
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by measomsan
We have a house in Los Cabo area. It is in a trust and all is good. My question is what are the rules ? We have had it for 5 years or so and remember you can sell it, and I think give it to someone. Or is that only when you kick the bucket? Can you give it to someone while you are still alive?


I do not believe that a trust can be transferred to a new buyer anymore --
When we sold our place the buyer had to obtain a new trust and we had to pay to the bank to end our trust.


Friends here in Loreto recently sold their home that was held in a fideicomiso and they were able to transfer it to the new owner at substantially less cost than a new one, so I'm pretty sure this is still possible. This happened about 4 months ago. It may depend on the bank.


Interesting --- makes me wonder because it cost us a chunk of money to get out of the trust. But maybe it was because the buyer had to put a second lot into the trust as it was owned in a different way. We never put the second lot into the trust as it would have cost us a few thousand dollars to do so. Or maybe it was the bank. Or, maybe we didn't get good information, but for the paper work we were dealing with someone we trust. There had to be a reason as we were told taking over our trust was not a possibility.

Right now we are waiting to see if the new law passes before we consider another purchase.

monoloco - 1-18-2014 at 05:14 PM

In a typical purchase and sale transaction, a new fideicomiso is typically created where the fideicomitente is a Mexican seller (an individual or an entity). The buyer (non-Mexican individual or entity) in such case, will be the fideicomisario. In the case of property that is held by the seller through an existing fideicomiso (e.g., where the seller is a non-Mexican citizen) then the purchase and sale transaction is commonly structured as an assignment of beneficiary rights (cesión de derechos de fideicomisario) from seller to buyer. An MRT is typically an irrevocable trust and the beneficiary is generally considered the owner for tax and other purposes.

Sandlefoot - 1-18-2014 at 05:39 PM

A fideicomiso and a trust are two different instruments by which one may acquire property. Therefore different costs. I think there have been comments that have run the two together, just trying to clarify.

Happy Trails

MitchMan - 1-24-2014 at 08:35 AM

A fido is a contract wherein the Mexican owner of a given subject property is paid by the ostensible new owner/buyer the equivalent of the value of the subject property to induce that Mexican owner to sign over and transfer his title to a bank. That bank agrees to take and hold title while all the rights of ownership, disposition, management and control and beneficial use of the property is granted to the new ostensible owner/buyer.

The fido contract does not create a legal entity known as a trust. The ostensible new owner/buyer never ever held title to the property...not even for an instant, therefore, that ostensible new owner/buyer could not create a trust as a trustor because he never transferred anything that he ever owned (had title to) into any trust entity. All he ever did by way of the fido contract was to pay the former owner a fee to compensate him for his transferring title to a bank. No trust entity created.

DianaT - 1-24-2014 at 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sandlefoot
A fideicomiso and a trust are two different instruments by which one may acquire property. Therefore different costs. I think there have been comments that have run the two together, just trying to clarify.

Happy Trails


Correct and I know I used the word trust meaning fideicomiso --- just because that is how our agent translates it. I apologize if it created any confusion.

And it is important, to not use the word trust because from what I read, the IRS has finally decided it is NOT a trust under their rules; that is a good thing!

http://www.wtas.com/pressroom/irs-rules-mexican-fideicomiso-...

With that said, I am still need to inquire as to why others have been able to transfer their fideicomisos and we could not. Maybe it was the extra lot, I don't know, but it cost us a few thousand dollars to buy out of our fideicomiso.

Sandlefoot - 1-24-2014 at 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by Sandlefoot
A fideicomiso and a trust are two different instruments by which one may acquire property. Therefore different costs. I think there have been comments that have run the two together, just trying to clarify.

Happy Trails


Correct and I know I used the word trust meaning fideicomiso --- just because that is how our agent translates it. I apologize if it created any confusion.

And it is important, to not use the word trust because from what I read, the IRS has finally decided it is NOT a trust under their rules; that is a good thing!

http://www.wtas.com/pressroom/irs-rules-mexican-fideicomiso-...

With that said, I am still need to inquire as to why others have been able to transfer their fideicomisos and we could not. Maybe it was the extra lot, I don't know, but it cost us a few thousand dollars to buy out of our fideicomiso.


We just bought a house here in La Paz from an American that has a fideicomiso. We are establishing a new one because we can do so and save annual payments. The new one is cheaper than the existing one!!! I do not know what all is involved because the lawyer and real estate people are doing that for us. I will know more next month when the deal closes!!!

Happy Trails

ncampion - 1-24-2014 at 10:23 AM

I think monoloco explained the transfer correctly. The seller is merely transferring his/her rights as beneficiary to the new buyer, just like you could transfer your rights to your childeren within the trust.

MitchMan - 1-24-2014 at 04:46 PM

Sandlefoot,
Just a heads up. Tell your attorney handling the fido to get favorable terms in the fido such as, either eliminating the ability of the bank to raise fees or reducing the % increase and/or lengthening the time period as when the bank can raise the fido annual fee. For example, my fido says that my bank can raise the annual fee after 4 years by 10%-not good. If I had it to do all over again, I would have specific language inserted that says that if the fido stipulates a provision for the bank to increase the annual fee, it can only be done periodically (i.e., a regular interval of every so many years and that if the year is skipped, the bank looses its ability to exercise that option until the next interval comes around)...and they cannot retroactively cumulatively bill me for a missed interval.

Also, the fido can stipulate how much each type of service that the bank can charge for. Have your attorney negotiate down the fees and even the items that they can charge for. My attorney did none of those things for me as I got the run of the mill mediocre legal handling. YOu don't have to if you insist and bring up these issues. Also, the annual fido fee itself can be negotiable.

Make your attorney earn his/her fee. Have them discuss these issues with you.

I personally see this fido annual fee as sheer robbery...they do nothing for the fee and when they increase it, they do nothing to justify the increase...also, they stipulate specific fees for specific services/actions...well, what the heck is the annual fee paying for anyway?

[Edited on 1-24-2014 by MitchMan]

Sandlefoot - 1-24-2014 at 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
Sandlefoot,
Just a heads up. Tell your attorney handling the fido to get favorable terms in the fido such as, either eliminating the ability of the bank to raise fees or reducing the % increase and/or lengthening the time period as when the bank can raise the fido annual fee. For example, my fido says that my bank can raise the annual fee after 4 years by 10%-not good. If I had it to do all over again, I would have specific language inserted that says that if the fido stipulates a provision for the bank to increase the annual fee, it can only be done periodically (i.e., a regular interval of every so many years and that if the year is skipped, the bank looses its ability to exercise that option until the next interval comes around)...and they cannot retroactively cumulatively bill me for a missed interval.

Also, the fido can stipulate how much each type of service that the bank can charge for. Have your attorney negotiate down the fees and even the items that they can charge for. My attorney did none of those things for me as I got the run of the mill mediocre legal handling. YOu don't have to if you insist and bring up these issues. Also, the annual fido fee itself can be negotiable.

Make your attorney earn his/her fee. Have them discuss these issues with you.

I personally see this fido annual fee as sheer robbery...they do nothing for the fee and when they increase it, they do nothing to justify the increase...also, they stipulate specific fees for specific services/actions...well, what the heck is the annual fee paying for anyway?

[Edited on 1-24-2014 by MitchMan]


Thanks MichMan, I love ammo!!!! Everything we have found down here is increased by knowledge and negotiation! I have no problem making my attorney work for his money. He has come to me with a very high recommendation, and I have done other business with him already. This will make it fun!!! Thanks!!

Mike

Happy Trails

[Edited on 1-25-2014 by Sandlefoot]

Hook - 1-24-2014 at 05:10 PM

Did the OP actually use the word "rules" in Mexico? :lol:

Seriously, see if there is a Banco Interacciones office near you. Set fee for the life of the trust..........supposedly. Has held for five years for us.

measomsan - 1-24-2014 at 06:08 PM

Now that's funny. I don't care who you are

Pompano - 1-24-2014 at 06:19 PM

A 'Trust' = the first indication that you are going to be screwed.