BajaNomad - Mountain Lions on the road to Tecate, danger or not?

Mountain Lions on the road to Tecate, danger or not?

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EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 09:21 AM

I was driving north on the road to Tecate one evening, and a huge wingspan swooped down and then obstructed my view. In my naivete, I mentioned to my sister that it was maybe a bat but she said it was probably a hawk. The wings seemed translucent and black but for a moment and then flew away. Driving south on the same road one day, I saw a lone large cow in the ravine by the road almost on the road, and then noticed on another trip a good sized young mountain lion running through the brush around Zaragoza near Vallecitos. I am wondering if they are a danger while hiking. The area is nice, but this was something I wouldn't want to meet while walking. Are there any precautions or protection you can take against them? Guns aren't legal in Mexico.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

bajadogs - 1-21-2014 at 09:30 AM

If you encounter a mountain lion -

If-you-encounter-a-mountain-lion.jpg - 33kB

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 09:31 AM

IF attacked fight back?? Do you think that will work?

bajadogs - 1-21-2014 at 09:31 AM

Or better yet -

If_you_encounter_a_mountain_lion_gag.jpg - 45kB

DENNIS - 1-21-2014 at 09:35 AM

Funny thing about the great outdoors......,.this is where these critters live.
leave them alone.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 09:38 AM

I don't have any intention of bothering a mountain lion, but I know they do attack so what do you do then if you are minding your own business?

motoged - 1-21-2014 at 09:49 AM

Doc,
If you are lucky enough to see a cougar/puma/mountain lion in Baja....count your blessings.

But if it is a close encounter, it will probably have you by the neck from behind....and then you should count ON your blessings :biggrin:

They are more afraid of you generally....but will stalk you without you knowing it....often from behind.

Really not many reports of cougars killing people in Baja....so you can relax. :light:

cats

captkw - 1-21-2014 at 09:50 AM

I spend a lot of time in a NAT. forest called LOS PADRES and its known to have the most cats anywhere in the USA...From my research on the matter..never run away !! make yourself large as possible and make noise will hikeing..they would rather NOT deal with a human..running will make the CHASE INSTINCT go up !!! most folks will be 100 feet from them and not know it.. stealth,,strength,, speed is there MO...awesome units in the forests...and if caught in a fight with one...god forebid...protect your neck !!...here KITTY<KITTY

fandango - 1-21-2014 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadogs
Or better yet -

Hook - 1-21-2014 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
IF attacked fight back?? Do you think that will work?

Well, what are the other options? You're certainly not going to outrun it.

This is not like a bear, where you might have 15-30 seconds (or more) of advanced warning. By the time you see it, it may be too late to use some type of legal deterrent like a knife or mace or something.

Hike with a stout walking stick of some kind. (This is a good idea, anyway, in Mexico because of the occasional encounter with dogs in the wild or neighborhoods.) You can use it to make yourself look bigger and more threatening if you brandish it over your head, assuming you see it first. If you're already in it's clutches, at least you have a decent weapon IN HAND, ALREADY DEPLOYED. Start whacking it or jabbing it with the end if it's that close, preferable around it's head.

That's your best chance, in the absence of a firearm; whichI doubt many of us are carrying in Mexico.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by Hook]

cats & dogs

captkw - 1-21-2014 at 10:20 AM

As I always have a dog(s) with me while hiking to the swimming holes and have been in Alaska a lot...I have learned to sing,,hum..make noise and keep my dog close...almost all animal attacks happen when they get surprised..same with bears...and Rattle snacks cant see worth sh-t.. but sense ground vibs of your presence...so in snake country walk (stomp) your way to the river !!

Skipjack Joe - 1-21-2014 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

IF attacked fight back?? Do you think that will work?

That's to counter the idea that if you lay still it will leave you alone, a strategy sometimes given for brown bear encounters.

Which reminds of an old Russian tale:

Two friends were walking through the woods one day when they came upon a black bear. One boy ran off and the other, too afraid to move, just dropped to the ground. The safe boy watched from a distance as the bear approached the boy, bent over him, growling around his head. Then amazingly left him. Later the boys were reunited and the first asked the 2nd what happened. He told him that the bear had whispered advice into his ear: that he should be careful because his pal is not a true friend.

I remember this story from grade school.

bajaguy - 1-21-2014 at 10:34 AM

Please post photos

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
IF attacked fight back?? Do you think that will work?

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 10:36 AM

Advice from Ranger Barry----------

Baja Dogs first post is the accepted method of countering a mountain lion, but those who say you won't see it until it's too late is also true-----they stalk from behind, normally.

In all my years in the woods as a Ranger I NEVER saw a Mt. Lion except for a brief second I saw one crossing the highway in southern Oregon a few years ago at twilight.

Attacks do occur, but extremely rare.

Barry

Cypress - 1-21-2014 at 10:51 AM

Lived and hunted in the mountains of the northwest for nearly 20 yrs. Saw only 4 mountain lions the whole time, two of 'em where more or less in my front yard.

[Edited on 1/21/2014 by Cypress]

[Edited on 1/21/2014 by Cypress]

LancairDriver - 1-21-2014 at 11:15 AM

I see them quite frequently here on the Oregon coast. Never have felt threatened as in MOST cases they are very shy and quickly disappear. However, once driving my pickup on a logging road, one fell in with me and trotted along with the truck for quite a distance. I was glad to be in the pickup. This convinced me to carry a handgun for some protection when hiking in the wild, which is OK in Oregon but not in Baja. How about carrying Hornet spray when in cougar habitat in Baja if you have any concerns? As good as bear spray in Alaska.

motoged - 1-21-2014 at 11:31 AM

I believe that hornet/wasp spray is superior to bear spray (Capsicum) as it has a longer and steadier spray stream that is easier to control/direct.

Bear spray can blow back and incapacitate the human more than the wild critter/pendejo.

It is legal and less expensive.

My $2.00 MP

jimgrms - 1-21-2014 at 12:05 PM

Trip your hiking partner and run like hell' if you are hiking alone your are cat food

DavidE - 1-21-2014 at 12:12 PM

A simple stout five foot walking stick surprised the hell out of me in the Reese River Valley area of Nevada. A full grown cat growled at me from about thirty feet away. It was standing on a man-high boulder. It was bristling. Afterwards thinking about things, this happened in April. Maybe the cat was a lioness and she had kittens. Anyway I yelled, and the cat only lowered its ears. I raised my left arm and shook my fist to no effect. But when I raised my walking stick and waved it in the air the lion jumped off the rock and disappeared. I returned the way I came. Maybe it was a she and she had kittens. Who knows.

dtbushpilot - 1-21-2014 at 12:14 PM

You should always take your dog along on a hike in mountain lion territory. They will probably spot the cat long before you will and the cat would much prefer eating the dog than you....

Dogs and Lions

bajaguy - 1-21-2014 at 12:20 PM

Unless you might happen to have a Rhodesian Ridgeback:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
You should always take your dog along on a hike in mountain lion territory. They will probably spot the cat long before you will and the cat would much prefer eating the dog than you....

dtbushpilot - 1-21-2014 at 12:27 PM

Do they call them "Zimbabwe" Ridgebacks now? :?:

greengoes - 1-21-2014 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I don't have any intention of bothering a mountain lion, but I know they do attack so what do you do then if you are minding your own business?

Throw some of these on the ground and the Cat will forget about you.

No dog while fishing

captkw - 1-21-2014 at 12:31 PM

My first trip to Alasks got the lowdown about going fishing with your dog..A NO NO...dog smells bear,, goeS AFTER BEAR ,,,, ,THEN BRINGS peeED OFF BEAR BACK TO YOU...NOT A GOOD DAY FISHING...

bajaguy - 1-21-2014 at 12:32 PM

Nope

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Do they call them "Zimbabwe" Ridgebacks now? :?:

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I was driving north on the road to Tecate one evening, and a huge wingspan swooped down and then obstructed my view. In my naivete, I mentioned to my sister that it was maybe a bat but she said it was probably a hawk. The wings seemed translucent and black but for a moment and then flew away. Driving south on the same road one day, I saw a lone large cow in the ravine by the road almost on the road, and then noticed on another trip a good sized young mountain lion running through the brush around Zaragoza near Vallecitos. I am wondering if they are a danger while hiking. The area is nice, but this was something I wouldn't want to meet while walking. Are there any precautions or protection you can take against them? Guns aren't legal in Mexico.

EDIT!!! I screwed up on placement. Below is me, Janene's comments are above.

I have not thought about or researched this in years so forgive me if I'm off on some facts.

Yes, they certainly can be a danger to hikers. There have been few deaths, the last I'm aware of was a hiker on the Capistrano road in So. Orange or No. San Diego county.

You can pretty well take all of the bones of a full grown cat and fit them in a shoebox. They are all muscle and sinew.

A full grown male locally will come in at about 140 pounds and will be able to leap 20 feet from a sitting position. They do have a heavy, long-lasting scent so dogs are very aware if they cross a trail.

Before the influx of people I was a bounty hunter/trapper in the mountains east of San Diego and would see the large cats commonly at a distance. I got to know the areas they preferred and which cats were where.

The problem of cat/human kills will increase as we take more of their food source away. Their preferred food is deer and as we take more and more venado from the areas where these magnificent animals live and roam they are forced to substitute other food sources and then of course we go kill them as predators and we will ultimately finish them off in this are of SoCal and NoBaja.

They will immediately eat the heart of the prey animal and initial identification of the killed hiker's heart being eaten before the cat was frightened away was later substantiated.

Hiking alone can be a problem and as mentioned you will probably be unaware of the animal until it is on your back to break your neck for the kill.

Again I've not read about this recently so can be off on a few things but try googling dept of fish and wildlife, California, and ask about the big cats.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by Cisco]

mtgoat666 - 1-21-2014 at 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco
Hiking alone can be a problem and as mentioned you will probably be unaware of the animal until it is on your back to break your neck for the kill.

perhaps when hiking alone you should wear chainmail. also may help in protection from sharks when surfing (but be sure to wear some extra buoyancy aid) :lol:

mcfez - 1-21-2014 at 01:18 PM

Here's the man that knows what he is talking about.....motoged.
The spray is about 18 to 20 feet.

If you dont have this item......walk backwards, lift your shirt as high as you can above your head....and make a lot of noise. We use wasp spray in Baja as well as in the 395 corridor range.

Works great too on bad guys..........the spray that is!

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
I believe that hornet/wasp spray is superior to bear spray (Capsicum) as it has a longer and steadier spray stream that is easier to control/direct.

Bear spray can blow back and incapacitate the human more than the wild critter/pendejo.

It is legal and less expensive.

My $2.00 MP

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by mcfez]

Stickers - 1-21-2014 at 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
Here's the man that knows what he is talking about.....motoged.
The spray is about 18 to 20 feet.

If you dont have this item......walk backwards, left your shirt as high as you can about your head....and make a lot of noise. We use wasp spray in Baja as well as in the 395 corridor range.

Works great too on bad guys..........the spray that is!

Quote:

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by mcfez]

I use wasp - hornet spray often here in California to get rid of nests under the eaves of my house. It splashes and gets all over me without any adverse effects?

I have used self defense pepper spray for one tenth of a second indoors to see if it worked and we had to evacuate the building from the extreme choking and eye burning. Maybe hornet spray is so environmentally safe it has no effect other than soaking the nests?

.

Frigatebird - 1-21-2014 at 01:38 PM

When hiking solo, I have a tall backpack that partially obscures my neck. Maybe I should add something like this, as it seems to help with tigers.

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by Frigatebird]

tiger mask.jpg - 47kB

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver
Here's their preferred meal when there is no goat available. :lol:

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by LancairDriver]

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by LancairDriver]

True. And, we are larger and more defenseless.

As we humans move farther and farther inland and the complications of movement these animals have between SoCal and NoBaja increase (Homeland Security patrols, fencing) they are being cut off from their preferred food supply and the food supply, venado, are decreasing with our predation and occupation of their traditional browsing areas.

Unfortunately, as with anchovies, sardines, decreasing plankton levels in the Ocean's basic food chain we humans are taking it all and the larger animals that depend on the food chain are suffering.

We are seven billion top of the food chain consumers at this time and growing at a rate of a billion more each decade (each day 250,000 people more are born than die). We are destroying or using it all, never underestimate the value of the exponent, we will continue reproducing exponentially until there is nothing left.

sancho - 1-21-2014 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

In all my years in the woods as a Ranger I NEVER saw a Mt. Lion except for a brief second I saw one
Attacks do occur, but extremely rare.

With you on that, I can't imagine the odds of being attacked
by a Mtn Lion, wouldn't even make the list of dangers, hyperthermia, getting lost, too many Pacificos, etc.
However I can remember a Mtn Bicycle guy taken here
in Orange, Co., 15 yrs ago., and a jogger by Auburn
east of Sacramento

Wasp Spray????

bajaguy - 1-21-2014 at 01:52 PM

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/wasp-spray-substitue-pepper-spray...

I'll stick with pepper spray and a stick

Quote:

Skipjack Joe - 1-21-2014 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stickers

I have used self defense pepper spray for one tenth of a second indoors to see if it worked ...

.

That's almost as bad as this gent examining his gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtkapY3ZfD4

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver
Here's their preferred meal when there is no goat available. :lol:

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by LancairDriver]

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by LancairDriver]

Think Easter Island, or the Southwest Indians (the ancient one's)--------there is the evidence of this phenomena for all to see, but nothing has truly been "proven" yet.. But it is worth considering, seriously!!!

Barry

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

In all my years in the woods as a Ranger I NEVER saw a Mt. Lion except for a brief second I saw one crossing the highway in southern Oregon a few years ago at twilight.

Attacks do occur, but extremely rare.

Barry

So very true Barry, they don't want to be seen but there was a great population of them in SoCal/NoBaja many years ago.

Attacks were rare as they had food supply then, they don't want humans. Now it's different. Today there are not as many cats or food supply and if there is no food or an animal is sick or injured humans are available and defenseless.

Nothing to freak about as attacks are very rare even now but I would certainly exercise caution particularly in remote areas where there are still substantial animals. Camp Pendelton comes to mind as a protected area with food source.

Rather like deer season in San Diego County. It has gotten to the point where at the first gunshot every deer in the county is headed for Indian or private land where there is no hunting allowed.

When young I shot my first deer in Murphy Canyon across from where the Wal-Mart is now, less than a mile from Qualcomm Stadium. Now there are lotteries to see who gets a deer hunting permit to be allowed to shoot.

Think I will research this, I'm curious now. Are the cat's on CA's endangered list?

San Marcos area

bajaguy - 1-21-2014 at 02:23 PM

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Possible-Mountain-Lion...

Beware.....they are out there watching and waiting...and they are hungry!!!

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 02:24 PM

Not sure about "endangered", but the big cats are on the increase in CA (and elsewhere) due to measures to protect them (from us). There use to be Griz (etc.) all over the Southwest USA and northern Mexico, and they were extremely hazardous to man and beast back before 1840, or so, and were greatly feared, with good reason.. I am torn on this subject-------man and the large predators are NOT known to get along. Both bears and big-cats are dangerous to man and beast, with bears being a downright nuisance, in my book, especially in the Sierra Nevada Mts...where protected.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 1-21-2014 at 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Not sure about "endangered", but the big cats are on the increase in CA (and elsewhere) due to measures to protect them (from us). There use to be Griz (etc.) all over the Southwest USA and northern Mexico, and they were extremely hazardous to man and beast back before 1840, or so, and were greatly feared, with good reason.. I am torn on this subject-------man and the large predators are NOT known to get along. Both bears and big-cats are dangerous to man and beast, with bears being a downright nuisance, in my book, especially in the Sierra Nevada Mts...where protected.

Barry

animal attacks are so rare -- let the animals be!
sharks, bees, snakes, bears, cats,... they are all a risk - just leave them alone. is an acceptable loss if we loose a minuscule number of human victims each year.

if you want to wipe out critters to stop a minuscule handful of deaths, your efforts would be better focused on bigger killers like handguns or malaria. get your priorities straight!

Timo1 - 1-21-2014 at 02:38 PM

I wish I could get my hands on a friend's picture he took

Him and his son went to the Kootenays for an elk hunt and were succesful bagging
2 nice bulls

Back at camp with the meat dressed and hanging it was time for a snapshot

Maybe ten years later my buddy was looking at old photos

Guess what was in the tree limb the meat was hanging form watching the whole
thing go down

YEP...A beautiful cat just waiting to get to their favorite...The guts

You don't know they are there unless they get careless or they want you to know

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Ahhhh Errrrr, Goat, I think you need to do a little more research. Take a backpack trip into the Yosemite or Sequoia/Kings Canyon wilderness areas (etc.) and you are almost guaranteed to have bear problems, often serious. I gave up that sport years ago because I had so many trips ruined due to bears taking our food, ripping up our gear, and scaring the H--- out of me and mine. When it comes down to 'them or me', they lose if possible. Who needs bears-----not me!!!!!! but thanks to protectionist laws, they won----we don't go there anymore, and won't ever again.

Barry

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 02:40 PM

how would you go about using a pepper spray on a big cat if attacked?

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
how would you go about using a pepper spray on a big cat if attacked?

-----aim it at their face and let er rip!!!!! (and then get the H--- out of there)

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 1-21-2014 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Another example that you chose a career that you were totally unsuited for. And placed in a position of authority.

Barrys correct !!

captkw - 1-21-2014 at 02:52 PM

once in anchorage Ak had to go to the cargo term and there was two bears in a special cages..I asked about them and was told that they problems bears and where being flown to ca for a CDFG program to restock the Yosemite area...there a lake on the westide that I go to ALOT and meet folks all the time that had just left the park and had bear issues...dosnt help that they getting free trouble bears from AK and I have seen a lot more bear in ca the past few years...city folks don't see them !!

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Another example that you chose a career that you were totally unsuited for. And placed in a position of authority.

Au contrair, SkipJack. I can't tell you how many people thanked me for taking their problems with bears seriously, and giving them a voice. Yes, I was in the minority on my views on bears in the Parks, but a substantial amount of people within the Service agreed with me. I went from GS-5 buck-Ranger to GS-12 Chief Ranger/Branch Chief in 7 years in the NPS & BLM.

I rest my case.

Barry

Barrys correct

captkw - 1-21-2014 at 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
once in anchorage Ak had to go to the cargo term and there was two bears in a special cages..I asked about them and was told that they problems bears and where being flown to ca for a CDFG program to restock the Yosemite area...theres a lake on the westide (outside Yosemite) that I go to ALOT and meet folks all the time that had just left the park and had bear issues...dosnt help that they getting free trouble bears from AK and I have seen a lot more bear in ca the past few years...city folks don't see them !!

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by captkw]

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
how would you go about using a pepper spray on a big cat if attacked?

No way Janene. If one of these animals is on you it's pretty much Adios.

What is of great interest to me is the fact that you even saw one. The are there, part of the same range of mountains on the U.S. side and they will roam, but to see it is incredible. Cat should not have been there, that close to people.

Might have been a sick animal.

There is a wonderful movie about the other great predator, the dog's. It is called "Never Cry Wolf" and it is funny, makes an excellent point, has some of the most wonderful cinematography I have ever seen and is well worth the rental, or library trip.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 03:09 PM

yes I was amazed myself. I saw it running on my right side very fast as I was heading south to Tecate. It looked sort of young, and I looked at pictures of them on the Internet as I had never seen one. I just drove up the Tecate road from Ensenada today and guess what....a bird bounced off my windshield and I saw in my rear view window that it bounced to the side of the road...presumably dead. That road is sure full of surprises!!

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Hook - 1-21-2014 at 03:40 PM

Have to concur with Cisco. Unless you are hiking with the spray and your finger on the button, you'll probably never have the time to use a spray. But no one hikes like that.

It's a stout stick and hope you get in a wallop early on to discourage it.

LancairDriver - 1-21-2014 at 03:58 PM

Here is their preferred meal when there is no goat on the trail. :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 1-21-2014 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Yes, I was in the minority on my views on bears in the Parks, but a substantial amount of people within the Service agreed with me. I went from GS-5 buck-Ranger to GS-12 Chief Ranger/Branch Chief in 7 years in the NPS & BLM.

I rest my case.

Barry

.. and you were in the minority when it came to preserving ancient artifacts on public lands as I recall. Not surprising to me as your views are consistently contrary to most people in the park service. What you were doing there is beyond comprehension. You must have been in a constant state of war with your personnel, people who enlisted into the service with certain ideals. Ideals which you repeatedly show that you lack.

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver
Here is their preferred meal when there is no goat on the trail. :lol:

Great photo. Magnificent, healthy looking animal.

Janene. Reference your how do I protect myself question. These animals can take down a five or six hundred pound Elk with ease. They break their necks while onboard the back.

DavidE - 1-21-2014 at 04:17 PM

No Worries!

If a lion were to start chasing me, it would slip and fall and break all four legs.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by DavidE]

bajadogs - 1-21-2014 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver
Here is their preferred meal when there is no goat on the trail. :lol:

Great photo. Magnificent, healthy looking animal.

I agree, but it is sad knowing road-kill has become part of the cycle of nature... attracting animals like a modern day tar pit.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 04:23 PM

OK supposedly when a vicious dog comes after you you need to move slowly and act meek. Now with a lion you have to be on the offensive and scream and yell? I don't get it. I think I will carry agent orange on me next time!!

Mulegena - 1-21-2014 at 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
how would you go about using a pepper spray on a big cat if attacked?

I imagine the big cat would appreciate it if you just sprayed yourself with that pepper spray,
added some salt and perhaps some wild sage, and Voila! Dinner is served!

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 04:36 PM

Here we go with the CATT-iness!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
how would you go about using a pepper spray on a big cat if attacked?

I imagine the big cat would appreciate it if you just sprayed yourself with that pepper spray,
added some salt and perhaps some wild sage, and Voila! Dinner is served!

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadogs

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver
Here is their preferred meal when there is no goat on the trail. :lol:

Great photo. Magnificent, healthy looking animal.

I agree, but it is sad knowing road-kill has become part of the cycle of nature... attracting animals like a modern day tar pit.

Sad what we have become I'm afraid.

LancairDriver - 1-21-2014 at 04:37 PM

Oregon Dept. of Fish and Game tells us Curry County on the southern Oregon coast has one of the highest populations of Cougars in the Northwest, with the exception of Vancouver Island. I see them on at least a monthly basis, but there are no recorded attacks on people around here. Occasionally they will be shot raiding livestock here, but this is not that common either. Many ranchers are placing Great Pyrenees dogs or Llamas with their sheep herds and they deter most attacks.

On the subject mentioned earlier in this thread on Grizzly bears who used to inhabit California, the Spanish managed to coexist with them for almost 300 years before the territory was wrested from them. They considered an occasional beef cattle loss acceptable ,and there are many pictures of Vaqueros lassoing them for sport. I guess that was back when men were made of tougher stuff.

vgabndo - 1-21-2014 at 04:37 PM

Great story Timo...I was hiking in the c-ckscomb Basin Jaguar Preserve in Belize many years ago along a storm devastated jungle trail in Fer De Lance country. All my senses were on HIGH alert. Watching every foot placement, I started to step and froze to see a BIG cat track which finished filling with water as I stood there mindblown!

I took a picture and compared it to books later, it was a Puma, not a Jaguar, and I hadn't seen a thing. GOOOOOsebumps! :lol:

What good luck that you got to see a Cougar Doc.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 04:38 PM

I don't know what I saw but it looked like a young female lion!!

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo
Great story Timo...I was hiking in the c-ckscomb Basin Jaguar Preserve in Belize many years ago along a storm devastated jungle trail in Fer De Lance country. All my senses were on HIGH alert. Watching every foot placement, I started to step and froze to see a BIG cat track which finished filling with water as I stood there mindblown!

I took a picture and compared it to books later, it was a Puma, not a Jaguar, and I hadn't seen a thing. GOOOOOsebumps! :lol:

What good luck that you got to see a Cougar Doc.

bajagrouper - 1-21-2014 at 04:40 PM

Quote:

Guns aren't legal in Mexico.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Where did you hear guns where illegal in Mexico? As long as you purchase the correct caliber from the Mexican Gov. and have the correct permits you can have a rifle, shotgun and pistol...I accually purchased a Winchester 1892 rifle from a store in San Muguel de Allende and I am getting a permit to remove it from Mexico to have it restored back home............

http://rollybrook.com/guns.htm

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by bajagrouper]

Cisco - 1-21-2014 at 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
No Worries!

If a lion were to start chasing me, it would slip and fall and break all four legs.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by DavidE]

Daveed I assume you're referring to the slippery road surface you would be leaving in your wake.

LancairDriver - 1-21-2014 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadogs

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver
Here is their preferred meal when there is no goat on the trail. :lol:

Great photo. Magnificent, healthy looking animal.

I agree, but it is sad knowing road-kill has become part of the cycle of nature... attracting animals like a modern day tar pit.

That cat in the picture most likely killed that deer when it was crossing the road. Cougars aren't scavengers and prefer fresh meat. The numerous deer killed on the road around here are not scavenged by Cougars.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

More info please? What correct caliber and where do you go to purchase one?

Quote:

Originally posted by bajagrouper
Guns aren't legal in Mexico.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

bajagrouper - 1-21-2014 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
More info please? What correct caliber and where do you go to purchase one?

Quote:

Originally posted by bajagrouper
Guns aren't legal in Mexico.

[Edited on 1-21-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

http://rollybrook.com/guns.htm

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 04:59 PM

so then you have to have a residente permanente to have a firearm?

bacquito - 1-21-2014 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
A simple stout five foot walking stick surprised the hell out of me in the Reese River Valley area of Nevada. A full grown cat growled at me from about thirty feet away. It was standing on a man-high boulder. It was bristling. Afterwards thinking about things, this happened in April. Maybe the cat was a lioness and she had kittens. Anyway I yelled, and the cat only lowered its ears. I raised my left arm and shook my fist to no effect. But when I raised my walking stick and waved it in the air the lion jumped off the rock and disappeared. I returned the way I came. Maybe it was a she and she had kittens. Who knows.

David, attended the U of Nevada '67-69 and did my graduate work at the Reese River Experimental Station. The "city of Austin" was something else! I have alot of fond memories.

David

Austin

bajaguy - 1-21-2014 at 05:37 PM

Was the Toyabee burger stand and the Owl Club open then???

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito

Quote:

David, attended the U of Nevada '67-69 and did my graduate work at the Reese River Experimental Station. The "city of Austin" was something else! I have alot of fond memories.

David

DavidE - 1-21-2014 at 05:45 PM

Yeah! Like driving to Fallon, passing SALT WELLS, ten trailers, a water tower, and large propane tank, all painted solid CHINESE RED.

I used to lay on the horn a half-mile before I got there and all the ladies would file out onto the porch and wave as I drove by.

The whole area is fascinating. Kingston Canyon on the other side of "the range" is where I hooked an eleven pound brown trout on a "Mary Lake # 16" fly. The folks I was with threw a hissy fit when I shook the hook jaw monster loose at the dam. I ripped an index finger on the fish's teeth! Remember the Austin Hotel and bar, perhaps the most authentic non tourist bar in the west? Great! Good old Austin, the only gambling house had a $5 upper limit on blackjack bets. One spring I dug up a garden for strawberries and found an 1872 CC $5 gold coin. It purchased a new to me pickup truck.

Barry A. - 1-21-2014 at 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

The National Park Service's mission in a Natural Area is to "preserve the resources while providing for the safe use, enjoyment, and access of the Public" (or something like that-----it was a long time ago). That is what I did. As the Bear Management Officer for Glacier Natl. Park in the late '60's I learned a LOT about bears in general, and Griz. in particular, as I personally handled and moved somewhere around 27 (?) bears, as I recall. If you think I am negative on bears, you should have listened to the resident NPS bear-biologist, Cliff Martinka. He loved what he was doing, but was terrified of the bears, and was not afraid to admit it internally, and questioned if they should even be allowed in the Park as they were so dangerous. I took his counsel to heart, and the evidence was so obvious to those of us directly involved with the bears that it was irrefutable.

As for the Indian sites-------I refer you back to the Mission of the Park Service-------to preserve while providing for the enjoyment of same by the Public. That is a tough call, and we all had different ideas on how to interpret that "Mission". I stressed the "enjoyment by the Public" message above the "preserve" message (in some cases), as many others within NPS did also. NO matter, tho, as neither mandate prevented the vandalism and theft of the resources in a few cases. Most significant "sites" within most of the Parks are already inventoried and photographed. Many tiny sites are still kept secret and hidden from public access and view, making them mostly irrelevant to the general public, and I think that is a shame and actually cheats the Public from enjoying resources they own. The scientific significance of many of these tiny sites is questionable.

I respect and understand your feelings on this subject, SkipJack, but decry your viscious attacks on those you don't agree with. I understood I was promoted to positions of authority because my views were respected and admired by Top Management, and considered balanced and reasonable and within Mission. I loved the NPS and still do.

I was never "at war" with my fellow Ranger's, but we did not always agree on everything, for sure. But from my point of view we got along great!!!

I appologize to the good Doctor and others for side-tracking this thread on Big Kitties. I did not wish to waste your time defending myself until I was derided & insulted for my comments, both now and in the past. SkipJack (and a few others) has a habit of doing this occasionally------for reasons only he knows.

Barry

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 05:56 PM

I'm loving every minute of this thread Barry, the stories are fascinating!!

DJL - 1-21-2014 at 06:13 PM

I don't mean for this reply to sound rude (to the original poster , or the local Mexicans who live along the hiking route) ..... but wouldn't it be more likely for the hungry Lion to be eating the endless supply of Mexicans that live in the area and walk everywhere ?

Go hiking , and consider yourself insanely lucky if you see one of these beautiful Animals - I've spent 40+ years in the bush and have seen only ONE .

D.~

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2014 at 06:16 PM

you know that everyone likes variety and a Greengoes is no exception!!

rts551 - 1-21-2014 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DJL
I don't mean for this reply to sound rude (to the original poster , or the local Mexicans who live along the hiking route) ..... but wouldn't it be more likely for the hungry Lion to be eating the endless supply of Mexicans that live in the area and walk everywhere ?

Go hiking , and consider yourself insanely lucky if you see one of these beautiful Animals - I've spent 40+ years in the bush and have seen only ONE .

D.~

does not matter if it is real or not. Its the most popular topic today! Tells ya something, doesn't it.

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by rts551]

DJL - 1-21-2014 at 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

does not matter if it is real or not. Its the most popular topic today! Tells ya something, doesn't it.

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by rts551]

It does . I should have stayed in Abreojos/Campo Rene and continued beating up on Groupers/Snook/etc. .... that's what it tells me !

D.~ :lol:

rts551 - 1-21-2014 at 06:45 PM

Where is the "Like" button!

Skipjack Joe - 1-22-2014 at 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

The National Park Service's mission in a Natural Area is to "preserve the resources while providing for the safe use, enjoyment, and access of the Public" (or something like that-----it was a long time ago).

Barry

Read your earlier posts Barry. "I consider Bears and mountain lions a menace". That is a strange statement from a protector of the natural resources that you are entrusted with. In all my years at national parks I have never, I repeat never, heard a ranger say anything like that. Yet it is totally consistent with what you have stated in the past. You have told us about the beauty of open pit mining and the beauty of a skyline of windmills on public lands ("... and if you don't like it you can roll up the shades").

Yet because you worked for the Park Service we are supposed to respect your opinions on conservation? And now you pull out this phrase from the service. The emphasis being that they're a resource for our pleasure and when there is no pleasure their usefulness ends and can be eliminated? That's exactly the problem, Barry. You have it backwards. WE are the guests in these parks, not the other way around. The wildlife belong in the parks and we are privileged to see them on their terms. That's the view of all the NPS people I've met.

This is from the NPS CULTURAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT GUIDELINE - STEWARDSHIP

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/nps28/28chap4.htm

Quote:

The legal mandate to both conserve and provide for public enjoyment seems to hold potential for conflict. In fact, the Service's primary responsibility is clear. It may provide for public enjoyment of park resources only "in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations." In other words, preservation takes precedence.

and further on:

Quote:

In planning for needed facilities and in providing for visitor use activities, good managers will not subordinate resource preservation to "better" visitor experiences.

That's not a quote from some contemptuous tree hugger or sierra club member, but from the documents of the park service itself. There is no ambiguity here. Wildlife are not a menace. We are the menace if we affect their lives.

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

Cypress - 1-22-2014 at 05:31 AM

Mountain Lion attacks occur in areas where hunting them is illegal, they lose their fear of humans. Unarmed humans are easy prey.

yup

bajaguy - 1-22-2014 at 07:08 AM

Tastes like chicken :lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Mountain Lion attacks occur in areas where hunting them is illegal, they lose their fear of humans. Unarmed humans are easy prey.

Neal Johns - 1-22-2014 at 08:22 AM

I have hiked and driven all over the southwest states backcountry for many decades and have never seen a mountain lion. Here in Lytle Creek in the last year one got his/her picture taker by a motion triggered camera in a backyard and one ate a large dog.

I am sure they have seen me somewhere, sometime, but I guess I don't look very tasty. I hope to keep it that way. Meanwhile, I still hike - just slower now. (83 and counting, taste old and moldy).
Neal

Cancamo - 1-22-2014 at 08:59 AM

I have had three sightings of the same species of wild cat in the last three months here on the East Cape, all in different locations and far from each other. Having seen numerous gato montes, (bobcats), in this area, and a few mountain lions in the Sierra Nevada, it was neither. These cats had a smaller build than a lion, larger than a bobcat. Longer legs and taller than a bobcat, but with a face more like a bobcat than a lion. All three cats had a long tail with black rings around it, (these critters were not even close to ringtail cats which I've seen plenty). Talking with local ranchers in the area, they say it could be a "tigrillo". I've tried to research and identify this animal online without luck. Curious to see if anybody has seen or knows of this cat? The only thing I can figure is they were adolescent lions, but not very likely considering how cagey and difficult it is to see mountain lions in the wild, (although they see you).

mulegejim - 1-22-2014 at 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cancamo
I have had three sightings of the same species of wild cat in the last three months here on the East Cape, all in different locations and far from each other. Having seen numerous gato montes, (bobcats), in this area, and a few mountain lions in the Sierra Nevada, it was neither. These cats had a smaller build than a lion, larger than a bobcat. Longer legs and taller than a bobcat, but with a face more like a bobcat than a lion. All three cats had a long tail with black rings around it, (these critters were not even close to ringtail cats which I've seen plenty). Talking with local ranchers in the area, they say it could be a "tigrillo". I've tried to research and identify this animal online without luck. Curious to see if anybody has seen or knows of this cat? The only thing I can figure is they were adolescent lions, but not very likely considering how cagey and difficult it is to see mountain lions in the wild,
(although they see you).

Could it be a Jaguarundi....they are about the right size but not sure about the ringed tail. If you Google the name you can find pics, etc.

CATS IN BCS

captkw - 1-22-2014 at 09:44 AM

The Serria La Laguna has Many cats and no people (thank god) its between La Ribeya and on the east is Todo Santo's ..30 miles north of Cabo you can have Snow !!..I think The highest is over 7K feet .....folks just don't seem to get this simple fact!!

[Edited on 1-23-2014 by captkw]

Jaguarundi/ Leoncillo

David K - 1-22-2014 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegejim

Quote:

Could it be a Jaguarundi....they are about the right size but not sure about the ringed tail. If you Google the name you can find pics, etc.

Posted about a years ago after someone claimed to see one in Baja:

Because I think this is very important for Nomads to know, I will post these clips here, as I did before in my petroglyph thread that Saltram mentioned jaguarundis in... I would enjoy seeing some photos that prove they are in Baja! What a cool cat!

DK

captkw - 1-22-2014 at 11:23 AM

Hola,,They are in Baja..I've seen two and many prints up in the Serria La Laguna..west of Santiago bcs... where there used to be bear..there is still boar and am told deer up in the pines....

Here's a Report About a Jaguarundi Spotted in Poway, San Diego

Gypsy Jan - 1-22-2014 at 11:30 AM

The poster states the encounter ocurred in 1985.

http://pictures-of-cats.org/mexican-jaguar-scared-both-of-us...

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by Gypsy Jan]

sancho - 1-22-2014 at 12:01 PM

Read an account a few yrs. back, a Turkey Hunter
somewhere in Ca., comoed up, hidden, calling
in turkeys. Someone else was listening to the calls,
heard a sound behind him, turned around to see
Sr. Gato in full attack 3 ' away, the cat realized it wasn't
a turkey, bounced of the guy and took off

David K - 1-22-2014 at 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
The poster states the encounter ocurred in 1985.

http://pictures-of-cats.org/mexican-jaguar-scared-both-of-us...

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by Gypsy Jan]

A jaguarundi is not a jaguar.

Okey Dokey - I Didn't Edit or Criticize the Poster's Description

Gypsy Jan - 1-22-2014 at 01:09 PM

But, it is a fact that no one really knows exactly how the cats evolved or what particular species they are descended from and, especially, what their range of habitat is.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguarundi

"The jaguarundi (Puma yagouaroundi syn. Herpailurus yagouaroundi), also called eyra cat, is a small-sized wild cat native to Central and South America. In 2002, the IUCN classified the jaguarundi as 'Least Concern', although they considered it likely that no conservation units beyond the megareserves of the Amazon basin could sustain long-term viable populations. Its presence in Uruguay is uncertain.

In some Spanish-speaking countries, the jaguarundi is also called gato colorado, gato moro, león brenero, onza, tigrillo, and leoncillo.

It is also called gato-mourisco, eirá, gato-preto, and maracajá-preto in Portuguese. Jaguarundi comes from Old Tupi yawaum'di.

The jaguarundi is found from southern Texas and coastal Mexico in the north, through Central and South America east of the Andes, and as far south as northern Argentina. Its habitat is lowland brush areas close to a source of running water, and may include any habitat from dry thorn forest to wet grassland. While commonly found in the lowlands, they have been reported at elevations as high as 3,200 m (10,500 ft).[5] Jaguarundis also occasionally inhabit dense tropical areas.

Jaguarundis have also been sighted in the US state of Florida since the early 20th century. Here, the species is thought to have been introduced, but it is not known when the introduction occurred. Their presence in Florida is said to have been the work of a writer who at some point imported the animals from their native habitat and released them near his hometown of Chiefland and in other locations across the state. No live or dead specimens have been found, but there have been many sightings considered credible by biologists. The earliest of these occurred in 1907, and was followed by various additional sightings throughout the Florida Peninsula from the 1930s through the 1950s. The first official report was released in 1942. Significantly fewer reliable sightings were reported after that, and by 1977 W. T. Neill concluded the population had declined; however, sightings have continued. Sightings of jaguarundis in the coastal area of Alabama also have been made. This may be evidence of the Florida population migrating northward.

The jaguarundi has also been sighted around the Guiana Space Centre in French Guiana."

[Edited on 1-22-2014 by Gypsy Jan]

mtgoat666 - 1-22-2014 at 01:56 PM

where is elvis8r? a while back he went hunting for cougar in baja around el rosario. he said the puddy tat outsmarted the hunter

I tawt I taw a puddy tat

wessongroup - 1-22-2014 at 05:48 PM

Those "cats" are a smart bunch ... just saying

DJL - 1-22-2014 at 06:37 PM

That Jaguarundi is a neat lil' critter !

Also small enough to NOT bite-thru your Neck while hiking Mex 3 !! I still wouldn't want to wrestle with one , though .

D.~

bajalearner - 1-22-2014 at 08:17 PM

In 1996, I was flying a helicopter in Orange County West of Interstate 5 in the foothills of the coastal range just north of San Juan Capistrano low and slow for a search. This is open land but surrounded by allot of people and cars. I saw a man jogging on a trail and just as I looked at the man a lion crossed perpendicular to the trail a short distance behind the runner. Maybe 20 feet. The runner never knew the lion was there. I guess the lion was moving away from the helo noise.

A few years later, I saw a report of a woman running near this place and was attacked by a lion and if I remember right, she was killed. The lion attacked her from the rear and at the neck area.

There must be many more close calls like this, and also with snakes that people never know are nearby.

Kitty cats

captkw - 1-22-2014 at 08:37 PM

Yep,,I recall that,,,sad,,but I as posted in the start of this,, they will almost be so close to you and you will not know it...even with a dog...happens every day !! if they are going to attack,, most time will be from behind and from up high,,and to the neck,,awesome critter..The North "Los Padres Nat Forest" has the highest count of them in the USA and I'm glad to spend time with them in that area!! worried no,,not for myself,,my dogs,,yes,,but we go there as much as we can...they really don't want to deal with homo sapiens....cant blame them!! I have seen a few in BCS ..stealth..strong..fast..mean..but are a videl part of this spinning rock !! NOW Bears are whole diff story and boars are the meanest sum b-tches around...!!!

wow..

captkw - 1-22-2014 at 08:45 PM

just saw the vid about the jaugernuts...that's nothing compared to the cats I've seen..small,,weak and not much of a jaw/teeth as the cats roaming calif. and BCS mountains...Ive seen botcats and ocelots way up north and they a small and not scarey as a M.L. ...muy peligrosso gatos...LOL..Hola Eha...

mulegemichael - 1-22-2014 at 09:10 PM

over 20 yrs as a park ranger in really remote areas of the n.w. and only 2 sightings of big cats...but they continue to regularly eat housecats and small dogs in our neighboring town of port angeles, which backs right up to olympic national park....we had a cougar kill last summer on a great big blacktail doe within sight of our deck in our neighbors backyard....killed and ate the guts out one night, drug it 50 feet and tried to cover it with brush and took off....i warned my little granddaughters the next morning that they might be breakfast....kinda scary, really....lots and lots of big cats on the olympic peninsula.

bacquito - 1-22-2014 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Was the Toyabee burger stand and the Owl Club open then???

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito

Quote:

David, attended the U of Nevada '67-69 and did my graduate work at the Reese River Experimental Station. The "city of Austin" was something else! I have alot of fond memories.

David

I remember the International Hotel as the popular spot ran by a guy named Swede, Ed Vigus merchantile store, other bars. a Texico Gas station. There were about 200 people living there at that time. I entered Northumperland Caves, climbed around Diana's Punch Bowl. There was a fossil of a prehistoric fish in the mountains. Interesting place to hike.
Fond memories!!

wow..thanks

captkw - 1-22-2014 at 09:13 PM

I thought they liked/preferd dry area's ???

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