BajaNomad - Short liters in Tijuana... sigh...

Short liters in Tijuana... sigh...

dasubergeek - 1-24-2014 at 10:50 PM

So this Sunday I was very low on gas and filled up at the Pemex on Clouthier off Insurgentes, near El Trompo. Hazme el lleno con Magna, por favor...

106 liters later...

Really?

Yes, señor. Your truck was very thirsty.

Well that's funny, the truck only has a 98-liter tank.

Oh no señor, these big trucks have 135-liter tanks.

No they don't. That's the three-quarter ton. Look, here's the manual, in Spanish. [I have the page marked.] 26 galones, 98 litros. How did you put 106 liters in a 98-liter tank?

I don't know, señor. I can't explain it.

Why don't we ask PROFECO tomorrow? I hear they have containers that are exactly one liter, and they dispense a liter from your pump into the container, and if it doesn't fill up the container then they close the gasolinera and fine the owner por tratar de estafar a los clientes...

Let me get the patrón...

I ended up paying for 94 liters, which was still probably a bit high but at least not an obvious ripoff. I'm not used to the ripoff right in the middle of Tijuana... I wonder if these guys are on the lista negra??

David K - 1-24-2014 at 11:22 PM

Good for you! :bounce:

Whale-ista - 1-25-2014 at 12:42 AM

I loathe buying gas in GN. I have only been shortchanged at stations there, in all my travels thru Baja. Other places have been generally honest.

This trip it was not the liters, it was the exchange rate: when my debit card was rejected (twice) and I had to pay in US$, their exchange was 11:1 vs. 12.6 at Cactus in El Rosario a few days later. The Internet cafe across the street from the station (I used their wifi) was also 12:1

Unfortunately, I didn't think to walk into the adjacent ATM in the same parking lot, before buying gas, so I would have had pesos at closer to 13:1. For some reason, the debit card worked at the ATM a few minutes after being refused at the pump...shortly followed by a call from the card security office, verifying it was me using it. Sigh...

I try to believe this all evens out in the grand scheme of things, but from now on I will get gas at the 28th parallel Pemex, not in GN.

vandy - 1-25-2014 at 03:17 AM

But you have to realize:

Without the misreading gas pimps
there wouldn't be new Pemexes (Pemices?) popping up
every few days.

A 10% misread on demand means the manager
can become a milenario quickly

I use two carefully measured gas cans
and most stations are 5-10% short, no matter HOW you order gas.

Of course, maybe it could possibly be that the station in the US where I calibrated the cans
was giving me EXTRA gas to keep me coming back?

Right

But this IS the first time I've heard of someone demanding a refund
My hat's off to you

gas

dpwahoo - 1-25-2014 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasubergeek
So this Sunday I was very low on gas and filled up at the Pemex on Clouthier off Insurgentes, near El Trompo. Hazme el lleno con Magna, por favor...

106 liters later...

Really?

Yes, señor. Your truck was very thirsty.

Well that's funny, the truck only has a 98-liter tank. Cudos to you, Dasu!

Oh no señor, these big trucks have 135-liter tanks.

No they don't. That's the three-quarter ton. Look, here's the manual, in Spanish. [I have the page marked.] 26 galones, 98 litros. How did you put 106 liters in a 98-liter tank?

I don't know, señor. I can't explain it.

Why don't we ask PROFECO tomorrow? I hear they have containers that are exactly one liter, and they dispense a liter from your pump into the container, and if it doesn't fill up the container then they close the gasolinera and fine the owner por tratar de estafar a los clientes...

Let me get the patrón...

I ended up paying for 94 liters, which was still probably a bit high but at least not an obvious ripoff. I'm not used to the ripoff right in the middle of Tijuana... I wonder if these guys are on the lista negra??

David K - 1-25-2014 at 09:16 AM

Profit margins are tiny for Pemex franchise owners. They aren't allowed to offer on site mechanical services or tire repairs like U.S. service stations. They can't even sell their gasoline at local market rates or a centavo cheaper than the Pemex across the street to bring in more business. It's as if the government with its rules and regulations forces franchise owners to come up with 'creative ways' to stay in business (at the expense of customers). The franchise owners can't even expand or modernize the restrooms without years of plans, permits, restrictions. Booo Big Government!

Clever way to increase proffit margin?

durrelllrobert - 1-25-2014 at 09:30 AM

Quote:

When we were in the states last week I noticed that one of my tires was low so I pulled up to the air/ water dispenser at a union 76 and you had to put 75 cents in the slot to get air. So I went across the street to the Chevron and their machine cost $1 for air. At least the air and water are still free in Baja.

J.P. - 1-25-2014 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Profit margins are tiny for Pemex franchise owners. They aren't allowed to offer on site mechanical services or tire repairs like U.S. service stations. They can't even sell their gasoline at local market rates or a centavo cheaper than the Pemex across the street to bring in more business. It's as if the government with its rules and regulations forces franchise owners to come up with 'creative ways' to stay in business (at the expense of customers). The franchise owners can't even expand or modernize the restrooms without years of plans, permits, restrictions. Booo Big Governmen

When we were in the states last week I noticed that one of my tires was low so I pulled up to the air/ water dispenser at a union 76 and you had to put 75 cents in the slot to get air. So I went across the street to the Chevron and their machine cost $1 for air. At least the air and water are still free in Baja.

In Ca Water and Air is Free if you purchase fuel there. STATE LAW. :lol:

[Edited on 1-25-2014 by J.P.]

mtgoat666 - 1-25-2014 at 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

it's free to customers, and when not a customer, a polite request always gets some free air, in my experience.

mtgoat666 - 1-25-2014 at 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
The franchise owners can't even expand or modernize the restrooms without years of plans, permits, restrictions. Booo Big Government!

it is clear that mexico needs MORE big government in the form of inspectors to more frequently test the fuel dispenser measuring devices.

re restrooms, i dont care if they expand or modernize; the franchise owners just need to maintain their existing restrooms and restock the paper towels and toilet paper!!!!!!

Profit motive

Whale-ista - 1-25-2014 at 10:13 AM

DaveK- I can understand the need to raise additional money. I just wonder why certain Pemex places seem to abuse this more than others.

In GN last weekend, The arbitrary low exchange rate a the Pemex was an example. The business across the street didn't do that.

Thank you for your tips regarding cactus in El Rosario. I will definitely continue to go to them on future trips.

woody with a view - 1-25-2014 at 10:15 AM

re: stocking toilet paper. don't you just love going into a toilet stall and there is half a roll of paper partially on the seat and the rest all is soggy and dripping down the side? the slob who needed to use all of that free paper for an assgasket was the same lazy pig who couldn't put it in the trash.

i'm in favor of bringing your own wipe-um. less waste that way. sorta like the govt, huh Goat?

[Edited on 1-25-2014 by woody with a view]

bajalearner - 1-25-2014 at 10:17 AM

Ponder this. What if the gas stations in the US in the 1930's fudged and cheated, and the mechanic bay lied and overcharged for mechanic work. Then the government started new agencies to monitor businesses. And taxes went up. And government made more and more agencies to watch other businesses to protect customers. And taxes went up. And today, restaurant workers in California cannot touch food with bare hands. They must wear plastic gloves. And taxes go up. Many businesses are chocking on the oversight. When Sears was caught cheating in their mechanic shops in the 1970’s in a nationwide scandal, I never shopped at Sears again.

So as much as I don't like to be ripped off, I prefer to buy with my eyes open and choose my battles because paying some stations a few dimes more to me is much cheaper than supporting a bureaucracy the size of the grand canyon to make sure I cross the street without getting hit by a car or losing a dollar in a business transaction. When I see or suspect I am cheated, I remember it when I need to buy more.

I hope Baja stays simple and I will understand why some people will take me for a few pesos. And many times I give a very good tip to people just because I can. It’s life and life isn’t fair in many ways but I am a big boy and can handle it. It is nice to have the internet to chat about it.

David K - 1-25-2014 at 10:21 AM

Well said! Power to the people!!

Vote with your wallet

Whale-ista - 1-25-2014 at 10:27 AM

Agreed the best strategy is avoid the offenders, support those who act fairly. I will always give return business and referrals to those who treat me well on my first visit.

Just hate to see first time visitors get ripped off and assume that's always the case and to be unwilling to return as a result.

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 10:31 AM

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 10:33 AM

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 10:48 AM

I was doing an inspection yesterday at a Chevron on El Cajon Blvd and a San Diego County Weights & Measures inspector was on site testing the dispensers for accuracy.

I asked him if they ever find gas station owners intentionally tampering with the dispensers.

He said, "It's hard to prove. We haven't found any in San Diego County in recent history. Usually the discrepancy is in favor of the customer. On old dispensers the meter can wear out and when that happens it starts to over-dispense".

I then told him a story about one of my customers in LA who was giving a gallon away for every gallon they were charging for, unknowingly.

Anyway, just passing this on. This wasn't Meheeeco. This was SD. I'm sure there are pumps that aren't correctly calibrated in Mexico like dasubergeek wrote.

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 10:56 AM

Oh and one more thing!

While I was at this station mentioned above, the owner came up to me and asked, "Should I be monitoring this Weights & Measures Inspector to make sure he doesn't steal my gas?"

Funny to see how people are skeptical on this topic from ALL angles. The customer is worried they're getting ripped off and the owner is worried they're getting ripped off.............

Most gas station owners use "Inventory Reconciliation" software that tracks what is going in the tanks and what is going out. If something is off they will know about it.

:LOL: :lol:

David K - 1-25-2014 at 10:56 AM

Thanks Jon...

Speaking of the 'Half Tank' mystery... I have run many tests by filling my truck up when the gauge points to the various levels:F, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, Low Light, E. I have a second generation (2005+) Toyota Tacoma.

Others with Tacomas have as well... and with our Toyotas it is very consistent... and the following levels were recorded (+/- 1/2 gallon):

The tank holds 21 gallons ( a tad more ) and when full, the needle pegs above the F line on the gauge.

After 2 gallons are used the gauge points to the F Line.

After 5 gallons (21-5=16 in the tank) it is on the 3/4 line.

After 9 gallons (21-9=12 gallons in the tank) it is on the 1/2 line. A true half tank would be 10.5 gallons, so at this point there is a 1.5 gallon 'reserve'.

After 13 gallons (21-13=8 in the tank) it is on the 1/4 line.

After 17 gallons (21-17=4 in the tank) the Low Fuel Light comes on.

After 18 gallons (21-18=3 in the tank) the gauge points to the E Line.

Many have driven more miles without running out and put 20 gallons or a bit more in. I have not tested it beyond the E line to confirm the 3 gallon 'reserve' we have!

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 11:01 AM

and let me just say that I'm OFF TOPIC because I'm talking about stations in the USA, not Mexico. OK, I'll shut up now.

jimgrms - 1-25-2014 at 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Profit margins are tiny for Pemex franchise owners. They aren't allowed to offer on site mechanical services or tire repairs like U.S. service stations. They can't even sell their gasoline at local market rates or a centavo cheaper than the Pemex across the street to bring in more business. It's as if the government with its rules and regulations forces franchise owners to come up with 'creative ways' to stay in business (at the expense of customers). The franchise owners can't even expand or modernize the restrooms without years of plans, permits, restrictions. Booo Big Government! [/quo

Then it seem that a franchise owner knows all these restrictions from the get go.. so does he open his franchise with plans to do as much cheating as possible

David K - 1-25-2014 at 11:14 AM

Makes you wonder? Some have integrity like Nomad's own 'BajaCactus' in El Rosario. There, the motel and the Pemex station support each other to keep it all honest. Some Pemex stations now have mini-markets next to the station as a method of staying in business without cheating.

There Should Be an Inspection Sticker on the Pumps

Gypsy Jan - 1-25-2014 at 11:53 AM

If it is out-of-date, you may have a problem.

Also, the gasolineros are supposed to call your attention and show you that they have zeroed out the pump before they start filling your tank.

Hubby says that we have had no problems at all with the big Pemex on the toll road in Rosarito near the toll gate, and also, the Pemex in Punta Piedras, about twenty miles south. They get inspected frequently because of the commercial traffic.

Archie - 1-25-2014 at 12:14 PM

Been living in GN since 2007, the first advice i got from the locals about refueling: DONT.

The last gasolinera, near the canal an Banamex has very old rusty tanks.

The one on the curve doesnt serve full liters.

The new one across Caracoles cheats too. Theres a local joke about how even the owners go to Jesus María or Vizcaíno to fuel their vehicles.

The one in the paralell its on a off, when its open you wont see any locals there.

DavidE - 1-25-2014 at 12:22 PM

Don't kid yourself about PROFECO.

"Associations" of gasolineros have in the past "gotten to" PROFECO employees and bribed them to thoroughly hassle owners of stations that do not ascribe to setting the dispensers to 96% delivered. What is needed is federal legislation that demands a mandatory 2-year prison sentence for a PROFECO employee convicted of accepting a bribe to influence decisions regarding dispenser testing and verification.

-Fat Chance

Whale-ista - 1-25-2014 at 12:33 PM

Thanks Archie- you've confirmed what I first observed 20 years ago: GN has exceptionally dishonest Pemex stations. I learned this after I had been living in ensenada for 2 or 3 years, and grew to trust Pemex and adjust to their service (I use pump "your own" in US).

This went fine until, on way to La Paz, I stopped in GN, started talking with attendant as he pumped...and pumped...and charged me for nearly 18 gallons for a car that had a 14 gallon tank. I protested, to no avail. My more fluent spanish speaking travel companion came back from restroom and protested, but he had zero success as well.
By that time the attendant had zeroed out the pump for the next customer.

It was more the shock of the dishonesty than the few dollars that hurt. And this was back when there were many fewer stations and they often ran dry during heavy holiday travel periods.

First things I bought at next opportunity: a locking gas cap and a 5 gallon gas can. And now I use the locking cap each time and ensure the pumps are at zero before they start filling the tank. Can't help if they have changed the settings, but ensures they zero out before filling.

I fill the can first time I stop for gas in MX during long trips, and if it's not needed, add it back to tank at final filling before heading home.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachm...

[Edited on 1-25-2014 by Whale-ista]

Udo - 1-25-2014 at 12:43 PM

The only Pemex that I purchase gas at in GN is the one at the other end of town...closer to the canal. It is a one pump station, but at least I know they are honest.

Quote:

Originally posted by Whale-ista
I loathe buying gas in GN. I have only been shortchanged at stations there, in all my travels thru Baja. Other places have been generally honest.

This trip it was not the liters, it was the exchange rate: when my debit card was rejected (twice) and I had to pay in US$, their exchange was 11:1 vs. 12.6 at Cactus in El Rosario a few days later. The Internet cafe across the street from the station (I used their wifi) was also 12:1

Unfortunately, I didn't think to walk into the adjacent ATM in the same parking lot, before buying gas, so I would have had pesos at closer to 13:1. For some reason, the debit card worked at the ATM a few minutes after being refused at the pump...shortly followed by a call from the card security office, verifying it was me using it. Sigh...

I try to believe this all evens out in the grand scheme of things, but from now on I will get gas at the 28th parallel Pemex, not in GN.

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 12:51 PM

Somebody needs to do a video setup sting job and record this in Guerrero Negro.

Udo - 1-25-2014 at 01:01 PM

I may be wrong, but I think Bob and Susan did that a couple of years ago.

Yep !!

captkw - 1-25-2014 at 01:04 PM

One of many,,many reasons I tell folks to bypass GN and get gas at JM

Ateo - 1-25-2014 at 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Udo
I may be wrong, but I think Bob and Susan did that a couple of years ago.

Yep. In Mulege, I believe. No shortage whatsoever.

DavidE - 1-25-2014 at 03:56 PM

Ya remember my propane only truck with the flatbed? The one with a gas filler tube a foot long that was wide open on the other end? My stop at the then only gasolinera in Sta Rosalia? Went to the bathroom, came back found a hose stuck in the filler and an attendant who was demanding 350 some odd pesos.

Called over a Green Angel who was parked by the office. I asked him to ask the attendant. He did. Then I told the Green Angel to look under the truck. He slid out howling with glee, face beet red, tears streaming down his cheeks. The attendant then did the same, he slid back out then ran toward town. Wotta Hoot. The station owner came out of his office. I told him I would sell him a .38 because it robbed people faster. He told me to never come back. I yelled:"You Fool! This is an LPG truck!" The Angeles Verdes were damned near rolling on the ground. Other customers were grinning from ear to ear. I feel sorry for the Mexicans. They don't deserve this.

dasubergeek - 1-26-2014 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

When we were in the states last week I noticed that one of my tires was low so I pulled up to the air/ water dispenser at a union 76 and you had to put 75 cents in the slot to get air. So I went across the street to the Chevron and their machine cost $1 for air. At least the air and water are still free in Baja.

If that was in California, they are required to give it to you free (both air and water) if you purchase gas—ANY amount of gas. You just have to go in and ask them to turn it on. Sometimes you'll get the eye roll, but they always do it.