BajaNomad

Fertilizer

MitchMan - 2-5-2014 at 08:41 PM

Anybody know a good place to get organic fertilizers in La Paz?

Home Depot doesn't have steer manure, or, what they do have seems to be more like a pulverized dry powdery compost. I found a couple of "viveros" that have what they refer to as some form of plant food, but it would be great to find some real steer manure or chicken manure.

I've got a Mango, an Orange, and a Lime tree that need some nourishment. There is plenty of Nitrogen around, but that doesn't do that much to promote good fruit, just good leaves.

Bob and Susan - 2-6-2014 at 06:17 AM

Miracle-GroŽ is sold at home depot

gnukid - 2-6-2014 at 07:54 AM

There are a ton of ranches behind the home depot, behind the tress that line the road as it meets the whale tail, next to the water treatment plant. You'll see a dirt road cutting off to the side of the carretera where there is often a person selling fresh fruits. Go back in there and follow the roads, ask around and you'll find ranches with goats, cattle, chickens and you can politely ask to trade something for the composted manure. They often have old feed bags you can fill up, bring a shovel and a truck.

Of course, it's helpful to offer something such as a food, fruit, fish or healthy drinks in exchange. If you need help, ask a local to come with you.

MitchMan - 2-6-2014 at 08:23 AM

gnukid,
THAT IS GREAT INFO. Thank you, man! I owe you.

jimgrms - 2-6-2014 at 08:27 AM

What about burying some fish around the trees, people do it for other plants ,

Udo - 2-6-2014 at 09:31 AM

I have also heard the same thing about the manures.

IF the water treatment plant lets their sludge effluent dry out, pick up some of that. It will be the best fertilizer you'll ever find.

In the Northwest US, Canada and Alaska, the tree farmers now buy such fertilizer from the treatment plants. Their trees mature at a rate of 10-15 times faster.
Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
There are a ton of ranches behind the home depot, behind the tress that line the road as it meets the whale tail, next to the water treatment plant. You'll see a dirt road cutting off to the side of the carretera where there is often a person selling fresh fruits. Go back in there and follow the roads, ask around and you'll find ranches with goats, cattle, chickens and you can politely ask to trade something for the composted manure. They often have old feed bags you can fill up, bring a shovel and a truck.

Of course, it's helpful to offer something such as a food, fruit, fish or healthy drinks in exchange. If you need help, ask a local to come with you.

David K - 2-6-2014 at 09:43 AM

'Fresh' steer manure is not good to use according to my plant growing friends... compost it, leach the salts out.

monoloco - 2-6-2014 at 09:47 AM

You could also drive up to San Juan de La Costa and see if they will sell you some rock phosphate, it would be really beneficial for flowering and fruiting plants.

vandenberg - 2-6-2014 at 10:24 AM

While we 're discussing fertilizers I have a question about my Washington oranges. This year, for some reason, the fruit is very dry and pulpy. The trees look healthy and have plenty of fruit. Also got plenty of water.
Anyone know of a reason the fruit is dry and not very good eating.
Lack of something??
All suggestions appreciated.

Also, my grapefruit, mandarin, tangerine and lime trees are fine all with healthy juicy fruit.

[Edited on 2-6-2014 by vandenberg]

gnukid - 2-6-2014 at 10:24 AM

It's true from our experience, the land is salty and the steer manure is salty so you do need to continue to break it down for about a year or more. Though the ranches I visit do rotate their herds, so you can use the areas that have been unused for a year or more and find composted material on site. I try to get as much goat and chicken manure as possible, plus some steer manure and mix with other materials and regular old dusty dirt.

The leach fields are next door and you can remove the dried material from dry ponds. Be careful, use boots, pants, long sleeves and wash up immediately afterwards and always ask for permission first and bring some muscle.

Whale-ista - 2-6-2014 at 10:35 AM

Using steer manure can be smelly. Chicken poop is better, lots of nitrogen.

Have you considered doing your own composting with kitchen scraps and yard waste? I have done that for years with earthworms to create compost for my garden.

Just throw in yard clippings, fruit discards, coffee grounds etc. add some worms to speed up the process of decomposition and they are very effective at creating good-quality fertilizer with less odor.

Costco sells large tumbling containers for compost but you can do it them in much smaller spaces also. You can even set them up indoors: http://compost.css.cornell.edu/worms/basics.html


[Edited on 2-6-2014 by Whale-ista]

baconjr - 2-6-2014 at 12:02 PM

I can't believe that my first job out of Ag school making potting soil for Kmart would allow me to speak with authority about manure. Poultry has some of the highest nitrogen percentages but is high in salts seeing the chickens poop and pee out of the same location. Steer is good but needs to rot and compost to release salts and make the nitrogen available. Sheep and goats manure are good and due to the little poop pellets it is easier to handle. The trees that do the best is with worm castings and worm tea. It releases all sorts of micro nutrients, the worms aerate the soil and you will have happy disease resistant plants. Making a worm composting setup isn't rocket science, get a mound of manure, find some worms to innoculate the pile and keep moist. You will have worms in no time, just remember worms like moisture so keep moist. About the dry fruit, try picking a little earlier. As time goes by the tree will reabsorb moisture from the fruit. Another tidbit add calcium to your soil it will help facilitate the leaching of salt out of the root zone. ground up shells work.:spingrin:

Whale-ista - 2-6-2014 at 01:17 PM

Thanks for the feedback Baconjr. Chicken poop is good mixed with compost for the reasons you cited, and I've done that to supplement what the worms produce.

I also add eggshells to my compost, and the worm bins I use (one large Costco style tumbler, one small box of worms, in case the tumbler worms crash) do seem to produce the best solution for my garden: compact size, produce good quality worm poop, and no need to feed chickens/cows/other large mammals.

Just to remind people considering this: no meat, lard, bones, etc. in compost! Plant based Oils in small amounts are ok. Citrus should be mixed with other stuff- the acid seems to unsettle the worms.

I just dumped a bunch of grass clippings in the large tumbler to warm things up. But the worms can survive cold weather- they just gravitate to center of bin.

They do OK in heat, but need moisture, so plan to add water along with food esp if the weather is warm/dry.

Floatflyer - 2-6-2014 at 04:11 PM

Maybe a simple question but as you are talking about worms and grass clippings are you using these in Baja?? Around our area things that like moisture are limited to my beer drinking friends.:P

We are in a very dry location but do have cows and chickens nearby. We have a small composting area but anything green left over from the table is usually eaten that night by something. Most everything else just dries out.

john68 - 2-6-2014 at 05:08 PM

maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I have never seen an earthworm in Baja.

Can you buy earthworms in La Paz?

Whale-ista - 2-6-2014 at 05:12 PM

I am referring to what I do in San Diego right now, not Baja. I've gardened when living in Ensenada, and recall that even there things dry out more quickly, and I did not set up a compost. I can only imagine how much warmer/drier things are in Baja Sur.

I may try composting as I transition back to spending more time in ensenada, and will stick to containers vs. planted in the ground since they are easier to manage and the soil is pretty lousy. Possibly raised beds. Also, I'm near the coast, so that keeps things cooler/moister.

Clearly, techniques would have to be modified to adjust to a drier climate. No grass clippings: add leaves from trimmed trees and kitchen scraps. If you have a sealed plastic container for worms/compost, that will certainly help retain moisture. And mulching around bases of plants/trees is essential.

Perhaps a garden forum needs to be established? How many gardeners around here?

sheet compositing (no I didn't misspell it)

baconjr - 2-7-2014 at 10:55 AM

Here is a link for sheet composting that works really well, low maintenance. http://www.patternliteracy.com/books/gaias-garden/how-to-the-ultimate-bomb-proof-sheet-mulch

Whale-ista - 2-7-2014 at 11:37 AM

actually this is about mulching which is different from composting. You can add compost to mulch, but the processes/goals are different.

I'm beginning to think Nomad may need a gardening forum...

gnukid - 2-7-2014 at 12:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by john68
maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I have never seen an earthworm in Baja.

Can you buy earthworms in La Paz?


I was digging a garden this week in la paz and there were many earth worms, huge and very energetic.

There are worm casting beds in the gardens known as Sabor de la Tierra right next the RV campground near the beach on Nayarit. You may ask there for help/advice with worms for compost. They are open 9am-1pm Mon-Sat.

Another topic of concern is gophers, we've been having lots of trouble with gophers invading gardens lately.

BSF larvae (SP?)

neilm81301 - 2-7-2014 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whale-ista

Just to remind people considering this: no meat, lard, bones, etc. in compost! Plant based Oils in small amounts are ok.


They tell me black soldier fly larvae will compost about anything - meat, fish, fat, oil, grease... I don't know about bones.

There are some cool time-lapse videos of the little buggers going to town on whole fish, hamburgers, etc.. They turn the waste into compost, and themselves into chicken feed... or bait!

Should work well in the warm climate.

Neil

[Edited on 2-7-2014 by neilm81301]

Whale-ista - 2-7-2014 at 07:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by john68
maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I have never seen an earthworm in Baja.

Can you buy earthworms in La Paz?


Many nurseries sell earthworms.

It's a little like yeast: you need a starter batch of worms to get the compost going. So adding nutrients and moisture plus worms to soil will help your garden, and over time will create more worms.

Worms exist everywhere there is enough food and moisture in the soil to support them. Healthy soil will provide what worms and gardens need.

Flies in compost are a nuisance

Whale-ista - 2-7-2014 at 07:33 PM

ideally composting should be done in a sealed container that keeps flies out.

Flies can become a nuisance if not controlled. They can also throw the Compost out of balance and result in decomposition and bad odors instead of a healthy environment for the worms.

Meat and animal products decompose and smell. plant and garden materials breakdown with less odors.

Hook - 2-7-2014 at 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
Anybody know a good place to get organic fertilizers in La Paz?

Home Depot doesn't have steer manure, or, what they do have seems to be more like a pulverized dry powdery compost. I found a couple of "viveros" that have what they refer to as some form of plant food, but it would be great to find some real steer manure or chicken manure.

I've got a Mango, an Orange, and a Lime tree that need some nourishment. There is plenty of Nitrogen around, but that doesn't do that much to promote good fruit, just good leaves.


Sounds like you've got the nitrogen covered from many sources.

You need someone to bring you down some bags of bone meal, I'm thinking. I havent seen it in the three Home Depots or the one Lowe's I've been in, over here in Sonora. Gotta get it in the States, I guess. :(

I go with bone meal in the top three inches of my soil below nearly everything in my vege garden. About 8 inches down, I distribute some time-release flowering granules from Lily-Miller. Not organic. It's 4-10-10, for encouraging flowers. I do this at the beginning of the season.

I think if you went with some fine bone meal in your citrus circle, you'd get more blossoms. NOWS the time, blossoms should be coming soon.

Have you tested your soil?

wessongroup - 2-7-2014 at 08:18 PM

Some times it's good to check your soil before ya start

http://www.ncagr.gov/cyber/kidswrld/plant/soiltest.htm

Can be very beneficial in fertilizer selection along with trace elements and PH

It all helps

Ck out the black soldier fly....

neilm81301 - 2-8-2014 at 05:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whale-ista
ideally composting should be done in a sealed container that keeps flies out.

Flies can become a nuisance if not controlled. They can also throw the Compost out of balance and result in decomposition and bad odors instead of a healthy environment for the worms.

Meat and animal products decompose and smell. plant and garden materials breakdown with less odors.


Whale-ista;
You're completely correct wrt houseflies. Boy, do I hate them.

BSF are a lot different. They don't stink, they don't come inside. they don't spread disease, they don't become a nusiance.

They just make a good soil amendment out of stuff we wouldn't normally compost. Which was the point of the post.

Neil