BajaNomad

Temporary or Permanent Residency in Baja...

gilmarlin - 2-22-2014 at 09:52 AM

I own a house in San Felipe, I had an FM3 which I obtained through the local FM2/3 specialist, but I allowed it to lapse over a year ago because of all the confusion regarding the renewal of it. I was advised this time to apply for a Permanent Resident card myself at the Consulate in Calexico. Now I'm confused and wonder if that is what I need to get. Is there another status that I should apply for as a property owner? I was advised that I needed some kind of resident card in case I have any legal disputes regarding my property. Thanks for any information...

monoloco - 2-22-2014 at 09:57 AM

You cannot simply let an FM3 lapse, you need to apply for permission to dissolve it. If you reapply for a permanent or temporary residency, you will probably owe a multa. (fine)

meme - 2-22-2014 at 09:59 AM

You also must start all over with FM & cannot apply directly for a PR card.

gilmarlin - 2-22-2014 at 02:17 PM

I was told that if I tried to renew my FM3 there would be major penalties and that I should just start over. I was then told to go ahead and apply for permanent residency so I don't have to deal with it every 4-5 years. I'm now hearing from friends and here that with a PR card you may be required to register your car in Mexico. I get different answers from everyone I speak to and no one is able to just tell me definitely what the process is, even the people that used to handle my FM3 for me. I am a seasoned Baja traveler, renter and property owner, speak Spanish and I am still confused as what to do...

rts551 - 2-22-2014 at 02:40 PM

You are going to get multiple answers here as well!
You need to make the decision yourself on what you think is the right thing for YOU.

gnukid - 2-22-2014 at 03:40 PM

If you go back and forth maybe you don't need a formal temp/perm visa.

Bob and Susan - 2-22-2014 at 03:57 PM

you own a house in san felipe...
go to your local IMN office and start a process...

do what they tell you to do...

don't listen to anyone else...your local people will assist you

it is what it is

gilmarlin - 2-22-2014 at 04:57 PM

I'm going down Monday for the race, I have every document, bank statement, letter of character, photos in three sizes in triplicate!!! Maybe I'll try again starting in San Felipe at IMN and see what they say. If that doesn't work, I'll stop at the Calexico Mexican Consulate and try there. The spirit of Nafta and cross border cooperation will be my guide... :biggrin:

CortezBlue - 2-22-2014 at 09:58 PM

I didn't read through all of these posts, but your "local expert," did you no favors. You have no option for perm res status because it lapsed. You must start over from scratch for 4 consecutive years and then you can apply for PR.

gilmarlin - 2-23-2014 at 01:29 AM

I'll let you know how it goes...

CortezBlue - 2-23-2014 at 07:58 AM

Do us all a favor and ask the question, "do we have to tag our vehicles with Mexico plates if we have a PR?"

Pescador - 2-23-2014 at 08:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CortezBlue
Do us all a favor and ask the question, "do we have to tag our vehicles with Mexico plates if we have a PR?"


That is like asking the Highway Patrol in California if you have to pay your taxes. Immigration has nothing to do or say on that matter and questions should be directed to the Federal Highway People. (Pandas, black and white cars)

Bajajorge - 2-23-2014 at 09:44 AM

I think Permanente just causes gringos a lot of grief at this time. I'm probably going to stick with an FM until Mexico figures out what they're going to demand from those with Permanente status. At this time Permanente sounds like a lot of unnecessary aggravation.

ncampion - 2-23-2014 at 10:14 AM

We are considering the same thing. The RP/RT seems to come with too many strings. The only other consideration that I understand is that in order to leave property in Mexico (e.g. house, furniture, boat etc.) you must have an RP/RT. FM only lets you "visit". Any comments on this?

MitchMan - 2-23-2014 at 12:06 PM

Last June when I applied for and received my RP, I brought the issue up with the INM people at the counter concerning having to get Mexican plates for my truck. Across the board they said no and that driving a US plated vehicle in Baja while being an RP was no problem. There happened to be two independent attorneys listening to me as I was discussing this with INM people and one of the attorneys chimed in and supported what the INM people were asserting; that there is no legal problem.

Then, I showed them a document on government letterhead that clearly asserted a very strong and substantiated position that it is a problem, even in the Baja. Those two attorneys took 'pause', stopped asserting their support of the INM people (who, at the time, were not even aware of the controversy), and left in total consternation. One of the Attorneys said that he was scheduled for a meeting with some Aduana officials and would follow up on the issue with them. I received two emails from that attorney over the next month with nothing definitive.

I have decided to take the position of 'wait and see', realizing that the reality on the street and actual policy/enforcement in Mexico is simply 'unofficial' in nature. Following the advice of the more experienced Nomads, and taking the position that 'experienced motis operandi' in Baja is often more reliable than the actual technical legalities, I feel comfortable not nationalizing my truck just yet, even though I feel quite certain that actual law currently, as is, supports legally having to nationalize the truck here in Baja.

I do have a litmus test for this. If I learn of periodic and current actual confiscations taking place in the Baja, other than in Cabo, and such confiscations are reported by those with first hand actual knowledge of such confiscations, I will then quickly nationalize my truck.

Russ - 2-24-2014 at 12:22 PM

After rolling my car I was not once asked what my visa status was. I'm inmagrato and worry about the having Ca. plate too but no one was concerned about it. Just have gringo insurance. You would hope that if it was a big deal the insurance provider would ask questions. I also believe that Bob & Susan are correct. Deal with the local INS office. I tried to get around paying a fine once by having the Tacate INS renew my FM-3 and the next year the Santa Rosalia folks nailed me saying one has to use the local office for renewals.
Good Luck!

steekers - 2-24-2014 at 01:40 PM

Hi Gilmarlin,

I also have same problem and was told by Lolita's by the Pemex in San Felipe to visit the Calexico consulate. The local office can't help us on this. I will also be going there in the next day or so. If you go there please let us know hat they tell you.

nbacc - 2-24-2014 at 08:43 PM

We got perm without even asking,..............hummmmmmmmmmm Just went into the consulate for a temp. and walked out with a perm

steekers - 2-24-2014 at 09:02 PM

Great. What questions did they ask? What docs do they need? Do they have a minimum monthly income requirement and need to show bank statements?

Was this the Calexico office?

Thanks

prt328 - 2-25-2014 at 06:34 PM

I am a RP and was very concerned about driving a US plated car in Mexico. My basic conclusion is that until the border towns start requiring TIPS for ANYONE driving down the Baja, regardless of status, then there is no reason to worry about it. Only when the borders start requiring TIPS, based on destination or immigration status, will I worry about about it.

meme - 3-1-2014 at 09:12 AM

From San Felipe Immigration office & U.S. Consulate in Calexico, Ca.

NO, you do not need a Mexico drivers license or Mexico plates on your vehicle if you have a PR card. Immigration says all that talk about it is just another Mexico rumor.

MitchMan - 3-1-2014 at 11:08 AM

Meme, was that a 'verbal' or was that in a publication of some kind?

weebray - 3-1-2014 at 03:45 PM

I've said this before. If you keep kicking this dead horse (asking transito or whomever over and over and over and over again) you're gonna get the answer you're looking for. The system is and has, for the last 20+ years I've been traveling and living here, always worked fine. Keep kicking it and someone high up is going to see $$$ signs and wake the horse up. If that happens it may be time to go back to a FMM or become illegal. BTW you can, legally, own property here with only a tourist status. I'm sure there are people here that have tourist status but only renew when they return to the states. Yes, that makes them illegal immigrants. Think of the $ and hassle you would save if you never dealt with IMN.

[Edited on 3-1-2014 by weebray]

CortezBlue - 3-1-2014 at 05:35 PM

Hey, please, don't forget that you MUST file IRS form proclaiming that you own property in Mexico!!

Sound familiar?

My take on most of these issues, as I mentioned earlier, there is usually some attorney or Gringo consultant trying to make a buck by FUD!

FEAR UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT

meme - 3-2-2014 at 11:03 AM

Verbal to Eldorado ranch friends that inquired both places.
Yes, they speak Spanish fluently also in case you were wondering? :-) :-)
One from immigration was to the Administrator of HOA EDR & passed on to residents.

cONSULATE

dpwahoo - 3-2-2014 at 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by steekers
Hi Gilmarlin,

I also have same problem and was told by Lolita's by the Pemex in San Felipe to visit the Calexico consulate. The local office can't help us on this. I will also be going there in the next day or so. If you go there please let us know hat they tell you.
Consulate first, then the rest must be completed in mexico. In my case 2 trips to the consulate, 2 tripa to ensenada, on the second trip receive permanente residence cards.:yes:

gilmarlin - 3-6-2014 at 08:43 AM

I went to the Consulate in Calexico again with all the documents that they had asked for in November. The person at the Consulate was not interested in any of them except for my bank statements and copies of my passport. :no: They didn't accept the bank statements that showed 3-4 thousand dollars per month of deposits. They wanted to see where they came from. I told them they were direct deposits for consulting fees that I receive, still the answer was no. I explained that I am not the typical retired person that receives a pension or social security so I don't know how else to prove that I am financially solvent. She said that if I could show investments totaling $125,000 dollars for 12 months , that would work. I mentioned that I had brought in copies of my savings in November which showed just that, and that they had refused to accept them then. She said the Consulate had changed personnel since then and the rules had changed... :lol::?::no:

gnukid - 3-6-2014 at 08:56 AM

You should try again, wear nice clothes, be formal and polite and say you are retired and receive payments as well as continuing consulting. Try printing a statement with just deposits exceeding the amount required, it should seem regular and show a consistent balance in your account. Be polite regardless, and be willing to go back as often as required and show income statements requested.

There is some language that PR is for retired people, but you can also qualify with adequate investment/income. Do not be discouraged and consider printing the whole book of immigration law plus 'lineamientos' guide hints published subsequently available at Rolly's site or Mexconnect forums, read the translation to english and be sure you know how you qualify. Just carry that will be helpful and help make your point. Say I qualify under rule #8 or whatever.

Add to that your ability to speak spanish, your cultural interest and knowledge, speak about the country with knowledge, name people in politics and history and discuss geography, once you add it up they won't be able to refuse. Your professional background is a big issue, science or computer programming or engineering helps.

Understand that people in the consulate do have the authority but are often unfamiliar with Mexico today and uncertain and need some clear info from you, there are many levels of employees and the now who knows might not be there at the moment you arrive so find out who is in charge for real and speak to them formally.

http://yucalandia.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/#Proof%20of%20Financial%20In dependence%20for%20Permanent%20Residency%20Applicants


[Edited on 3-6-2014 by gnukid]