BajaNomad

Gasoline...premium or magna?

brewer - 5-8-2014 at 07:21 PM

I have older stuff, like an '89 Cherokee, 3 wheelers, '84 60 hp outboard. And a newer eu3000 generator.

Should I be using premium or magna? I've just got magna in the past. The Cherokee pings while out driving.

So, any thoughts?

David K - 5-8-2014 at 07:24 PM

Magna is 87 octane and Premium is 91-ish... What do use at home? Pemex is not diluted with ethanol, ie. better gasoline!

woody with a view - 5-8-2014 at 07:31 PM

for things where my life depends on it I run Premium..... boats, atv's.... cars run on what the mfgr says they need.

Pacifico - 5-8-2014 at 07:33 PM

I generally get the premium if I'm at a station that has it. If not, I use the magna. My truck runs great on both.

It would be interesting to try the premium in your Cherokee and see if that stops your ping.

Bob and Susan - 5-8-2014 at 07:36 PM

ALWAYS use regular...its a marketing gimmick to make more money

people FEEL better if they think they get the BEST for their beloved car or truck

Pacifico - 5-8-2014 at 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
ALWAYS use regular...its a marketing gimmick to make more money

people FEEL better if they think they get the BEST for their beloved car or truck


Bob, are you saying there is no premium, that all the gas is the same? Or, there is just no benefit from premium? I would be interested in learning more about this. Thanks!

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by Pacifico]

woody with a view - 5-8-2014 at 07:48 PM

have you ever change the plugs on that jeep? wires, etc....

Ateo - 5-8-2014 at 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
ALWAYS use regular...its a marketing gimmick to make more money

people FEEL better if they think they get the BEST for their beloved car or truck


Winning answer. Use what your manufacturer suggests. Most of the time that's 87.

Ateo - 5-8-2014 at 07:57 PM

91 octane does nothing for a car that was engineered for 87 octane. Do a Google search on it and think critically. =)

rts551 - 5-8-2014 at 09:25 PM

My 2-stroke motor (Johnson) requires 90 octane or better according to the manual. Ram requires 89 according to the manual. eu2000 takes regular.

RnR - 5-8-2014 at 09:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by brewer

Should I be using premium or magna? I've just got magna in the past. The Cherokee pings while out driving.

So, any thoughts?


Just try a tank of premium in the Cherokee and see what happens. (Higher octane usually stops pinging)

willardguy - 5-8-2014 at 09:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
91 octane does nothing for a car that was engineered for 87 octane. Do a Google search on it and think critically. =)
funny story about Joshua tree, when gram parsons buddy's stole his body to burn in joshua tree(a pact they had made) they stopped to fill up a gas can being sure to buy premium, they joked they didn't want him to ping!:lol:

Maderita - 5-9-2014 at 12:46 AM

brewer,
Which engine do you have in the Cherokee, the 2.5L or 4.0L?
Both engines were designed to run on 87 octane. However, that doesn't always mean that 87 is sufficient.
There are several problems that may cause your engine to ping with 87 octane.
Carbon buildup, running hot or in hot weather, improper timing, spark plug gap, etc. Does your Cherokee have a recent valve job? Surfacing the head will increase compression and might require higher octane to compensate.
A tuneup might fix the pinging/detonation problem.

Do NOT continue to drive the vehicle if it is pinging more than momentarily upon sudden hard acceleration. Excessive pinging can cause serious damage to your engine. Get a tuneup. If that doesn't eliminate the pinging, then switch to a higher octane fuel.

I have had more than one Jeep 4.0L engine that needed 89 octane to run without pinging. My personal tolerance for pinging is zero. A few cents more per gallon is far cheaper than a complete rebuild.


Bob and Susan,
Please don't believe everything you read in those trite and brief consumer articles. Yes, I've read those too. Passing on that (mis)information as if you have vast mechanical experience/knowledge is leading folks into trouble. Higher octane fuel is NOT simply a marketing gimmick.

Many vehicles are designed to run on higher octane. The manufacturer will specify the octane requirement.
Heavy demands on an engine, such as steep grades or towing, might call for higher octane than the manufacturer recommended originally. So can hot or desert conditions. So can the internal condition of an engine or the engine tune. There are numerous variables.

I use what my engine is "happy" (zero pinging) with. If I anticipate pulling grades, towing, or in 95 F. + heat, then I will fill up with higher octane on that tank of gas.

David K - 5-9-2014 at 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Maderita
brewer,
Which engine do you have in the Cherokee, the 2.5L or 4.0L?
Both engines were designed to run on 87 octane. However, that doesn't always mean that 87 is sufficient.
There are several problems that may cause your engine to ping with 87 octane.
Carbon buildup, running hot or in hot weather, improper timing, spark plug gap, etc. Does your Cherokee have a recent valve job? Surfacing the head will increase compression and might require higher octane to compensate.
A tuneup might fix the pinging/detonation problem.

Do NOT continue to drive the vehicle if it is pinging more than momentarily upon sudden hard acceleration. Excessive pinging can cause serious damage to your engine. Get a tuneup. If that doesn't eliminate the pinging, then switch to a higher octane fuel.

I have had more than one Jeep 4.0L engine that needed 89 octane to run without pinging. My personal tolerance for pinging is zero. A few cents more per gallon is far cheaper than a complete rebuild.


Bob and Susan,
Please don't believe everything you read in those trite and brief consumer articles. Yes, I've read those too. Passing on that (mis)information as if you have vast mechanical experience/knowledge is leading folks into trouble. Higher octane fuel is NOT simply a marketing gimmick.

Many vehicles are designed to run on higher octane. The manufacturer will specify the octane requirement.
Heavy demands on an engine, such as steep grades or towing, might call for higher octane than the manufacturer recommended originally. So can hot or desert conditions. So can the internal condition of an engine or the engine tune. There are numerous variables.

I use what my engine is "happy" (zero pinging) with. If I anticipate pulling grades, towing, or in 95 F. + heat, then I will fill up with higher octane on that tank of gas.


Excellent answer!!!:bounce::light:

Bob and Susan - 5-9-2014 at 04:34 AM

"a fool and his money are soon parted" Thomas Tusser an English poet

welcome to 2014

gas

captkw - 5-9-2014 at 07:25 AM

Maderita has the right answer....more or less...It does not matter what the MFG says... that's a generic profile answer and gas and motors change...pinging is BAD and if your motor needs better (octane) give it to her...octane slows the flame speed. and pinging is very harmful to the piston Crown and can/will melt a piston....Bob & susan..why are you always SOO off the mark in regards to motors and electrical???? 30 yrs ago in Baja you HAD to add octane booster and retard your ignition timing if you wanted to drive normal...or you would sound like a diesel !!!

It's all about the compression ratio

durrelllrobert - 5-9-2014 at 07:55 AM

The higher the compression ratio the more octane is needed so the fuel can burn completely and efficiently. If the fuel octane is deficient a pinging noise may be heard when an engine is under a load . When compression exceeds 9.5 to 1 a person should use midgrade or premium fuel for the best performance. Compression over 11 to 1 should go to a low grade aviation fuel that starts at about 102 octane.

Most competition engines are 13 to 1 and over so they require higher octane fuel . I was reading about Trophy trucks yesterday and some of them have 16 to 1 compression and use 124 octane fuel to achieve 700 horsepower.

The 4.0 liter jeep engine has an 8.8 / 1 compression ratio so 87 octane Pemex should be sufficient.

RnR - 5-9-2014 at 08:18 AM

If it pings, use a higher octane.

The Magna in southern Baja is somehow different than the Magna in northern Baja.

My 1997 F250 runs fine on northern Magna. First fillup south of Guerrero Negro (Mulege or Loreto), it pings like crazy when towing. Have to switch to Premium.

Then northbound, run premium to GN, fill with Magna in GN, no pinging until southbound again next year.

Usually runs fine in southern Baja on Magna when not towing. Just an occasional ping under heavy acceleration. Also runs fine on 87 octane in the US.

This is nothing new, so no changes in the engine condition. It's happened every year since the truck was new in 1997.

To paraphrase the Capt, "just give your motor what she likes...."

pinging

captkw - 5-9-2014 at 08:24 AM

its more than just compression.....air densitey,,temp..(motor & air/gas intake)...rpm,,load,,,ignition timing and a host of other factors..for the normal joe,, just run enough octane so your motor does not ping...also on newer cars EGR !!

MitchMan - 5-9-2014 at 10:12 AM

If you take your vehicle to regular dealer maintenance over time and you always use regular gas, does that mean that the dealer maintenance service will tune your vehicle to run on regular and therefore eliminate any and all pinging?

I have all Toyotas now (2000 Echo, 2005 Corolla, 1998 2.7 L 4wd Tacoma) and all have never pinged on regular. Used to have all Volvos...same situation: regular and no pinging.

Actually, the only pinging I experienced on regular was with my first vehicles; a 1959 4 banger Austin Healy Sprite and a 1955 Chevy V8, both owned during the 1960s.

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by MitchMan]

daveB - 5-9-2014 at 10:24 AM

Large outfit that sells Honda generators, out of Kansas City, advises using premium gas (eu 2000). I never asked why.

motoged - 5-9-2014 at 10:55 AM

My high-strung beautiful European model likes both in Baja....no pinging....just the sound of her heart purring in my ears....with occasional indications she is at max rpms....:lol:


mega dittos (sorta)

durrelllrobert - 5-9-2014 at 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
My high-strung beautiful European model likes both in Baja....no pinging....just the sound of her heart purring in my ears....with occasional indications she is at max rpms....:lol:




My high-strung beautiful Canadian wife likes both in Baja....no pinging....just the sound of her heart purring in my ears....with occasional indications she is at max rpms....:tumble:

StuckSucks - 5-9-2014 at 12:16 PM

My Tacoma works great on Magna - no such thing as pinging. License plate karma?

Bob53 - 5-9-2014 at 12:43 PM

I am not a professional mechanic but if you have a vehicle that pings, I believe that you can change the timing to eliminate that.

pinging

captkw - 5-9-2014 at 12:54 PM

on many newer motors you cant change the timing !! could be running hot,,bad EGR and/or its switching,, carbon deposits..running lean,,wrong plugs and a host of other conditions.there is basicly two types of pinging and they are NOT good for your motor !!

Bob53 - 5-9-2014 at 01:22 PM

I understand that. I was referring to the 89 Cherokee that has ping problems.

bajalearner - 5-9-2014 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveB
Large outfit that sells Honda generators, out of Kansas City, advises using premium gas (eu 2000). I never asked why.


I would use what Honda says to use. My eu3000 purrs on 87 and Honda says use 87.

Of course, maybe that guy working at the outfit in KC has engineering degrees and scientific proof to refute the Honda R & D team. hahaha. Just as I would take his advice on the best BBQ place in KC over a Honda engineer living in Japan.

My motorcycle runs fine on 87 but I use 91 because the book tells me it is best.

motoged - 5-9-2014 at 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalearner

My motorcycle runs fine on 87 but I use 91 because the book tells me it is best.


Yes, the 690 and the 450 will drink the 87 without farting, but I feed the 91 if possible.....:lol:

Like some folks, I would prefer an Indio over a Pacifico....but Pacifico will do if all else is not available :cool:

rts551 - 5-9-2014 at 03:52 PM

check the expiration date on the container. Maybe its losing its Octane.

Just asking

durrelllrobert - 5-9-2014 at 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
on many newer motors you cant change the timing !! could be running hot,,bad EGR and/or its switching,, carbon deposits..running lean,,wrong plugs and a host of other conditions.there is basicly two types of pinging and they are NOT good for your motor !!


As an expert can you tell me why cars and trucks have internal combustion ENGINES instead of MOTORS?

I thought all motors were electrical and yet the propulsion system for boats, quads, motor cycles, generators, etc are called motors even though they also use internal combustion.:?::?:

htnfool - 5-9-2014 at 04:49 PM

Interesting discussion. I luv most of the answers.

I personally can tell/hear/feel the difference in how my boat runs when on magna, not great. Got a 150 yamaha 4 stroke that likes it when I run premium through it and not magna. The difference is slight but noticeable to me. I get no pinging from premium and much less black smoke than with the magna. This is also true on our EU3000i honda generator. Ironically, I can't tell any difference in my F-250 truck.

So I say, GO PREMIUM. I is better gas, sorry BOB...

brewer - 5-9-2014 at 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
have you ever change the plugs on that jeep? wires, etc....


Thanks Woody, I'll bring plugs and wires down next trip. The Jeeps stays in my garage down there. It was just my beach launcher because the brakes didn't work. I bled the brakes and now the brakes are fine. So it has become my local cruiser too. Exploring all the washes and arroyos. That is when I first heard the pinging.

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by brewer]

brewer - 5-9-2014 at 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Maderita
brewer,
Which engine do you have in the Cherokee, the 2.5L or 4.0L?
Both engines were designed to run on 87 octane. However, that doesn't always mean that 87 is sufficient.
There are several problems that may cause your engine to ping with 87 octane.
Carbon buildup, running hot or in hot weather, improper timing, spark plug gap, etc. Does your Cherokee have a recent valve job? Surfacing the head will increase compression and might require higher octane to compensate.
A tuneup might fix the pinging/detonation problem.

Do NOT continue to drive the vehicle if it is pinging more than momentarily upon sudden hard acceleration. Excessive pinging can cause serious damage to your engine. Get a tuneup. If that doesn't eliminate the pinging, then switch to a higher octane fuel.

I have had more than one Jeep 4.0L engine that needed 89 octane to run without pinging. My personal tolerance for pinging is zero. A few cents more per gallon is far cheaper than a complete rebuild.


Bob and Susan,
Please don't believe everything you read in those trite and brief consumer articles. Yes, I've read those too. Passing on that (mis)information as if you have vast mechanical experience/knowledge is leading folks into trouble. Higher octane fuel is NOT simply a marketing gimmick.

Many vehicles are designed to run on higher octane. The manufacturer will specify the octane requirement.
Heavy demands on an engine, such as steep grades or towing, might call for higher octane than the manufacturer recommended originally. So can hot or desert conditions. So can the internal condition of an engine or the engine tune. There are numerous variables.

I use what my engine is "happy" (zero pinging) with. If I anticipate pulling grades, towing, or in 95 F. + heat, then I will fill up with higher octane on that tank of gas.


Easy enough. Premium it is. I will be pulling grades up arroyos and driving in very hot weather. The Jeeps stays in Mexico. It won't be seeing a valve job or head resurfacing anytime soon. I'll put new plugs and wires in it.

Thanks for all of your info.

Bob and Susan - 5-9-2014 at 07:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by htnfool
Interesting discussion. I luv most of the answers.

I personally can tell/hear/feel the difference in how my boat runs when on magna, not great. Got a 150 yamaha 4 stroke that likes it when I run premium through it and not magna. The difference is slight but noticeable to me. I get no pinging from premium and much less black smoke than with the magna. This is also true on our EU3000i honda generator. Ironically, I can't tell any difference in my F-250 truck.

So I say, GO PREMIUM. I is better gas, sorry BOB...


yea but you overload your boat and motor...with FISH!!!
post your gopro video

mtgoat666 - 5-9-2014 at 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
on many newer motors you cant change the timing !! could be running hot,,bad EGR and/or its switching,, carbon deposits..running lean,,wrong plugs and a host of other conditions.there is basicly two types of pinging and they are NOT good for your motor !!


As an expert can you tell me why cars and trucks have internal combustion ENGINES instead of MOTORS?

I thought all motors were electrical and yet the propulsion system for boats, quads, motor cycles, generators, etc are called motors even though they also use internal combustion.:?::?:


All engines are motors. Not all motors are engines. Generally speaking.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by mtgoat666]

rts551 - 5-9-2014 at 08:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by captkw
on many newer motors you cant change the timing !! could be running hot,,bad EGR and/or its switching,, carbon deposits..running lean,,wrong plugs and a host of other conditions.there is basicly two types of pinging and they are NOT good for your motor !!


As an expert can you tell me why cars and trucks have internal combustion ENGINES instead of MOTORS?

I thought all motors were electrical and yet the propulsion system for boats, quads, motor cycles, generators, etc are called motors even though they also use internal combustion.:?::?:


All engines are motors. Not all motors are engines. Generally speaking.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by mtgoat666]


All depends....My search engine disagrees. Think I will motor along now.

motors & engines

captkw - 5-9-2014 at 08:54 PM

Hola,,on this matter you should cantact....MOTOR TREND..HOTRODS or pop mechanics...I work at a 7/11 and don't have clue !!!:tumble: