BajaNomad - NIGHMARE MEDICAL PROBLEM IN BAJA

NIGHMARE MEDICAL PROBLEM IN BAJA

LancairDriver - 6-13-2014 at 06:02 PM

Is there anything this individual could have done to insure himself from this situation on a short vacation to Cabo? Wonder why they won't accept US insurance?

This week has been nerve-wracking for a Myrtle Point family trying to bring their son back from Mexico after an accident that left him unresponsive.

Craig Leibelt grew up in Myrtle Point and now lives in Beaverton working for Nike. He was on vacation with his girlfriend, Monica Komperda, in Mexico last week to celebrate his 28th birthday June 8.

While swimming in the ocean on Monday, he was stung by a jellyfish and went in to cardiac arrest. A man nearby pulled Leibelt out of the water, and he was rushed to a hospital in Cabo San Lucas.

His family flew down to be with him, and said the hospital bill started at around $20,000 and kept growing and growing to more than $50,000. Hospital staff demanded it be paid in full before Leibelt could leave, said his aunt, Denise Larsen.

“The hospital got at least $45,000 out of the family,” she said. “He was put in a tiny hospital room and they wouldn’t let (Komperda) in. She was alone until his family arrived.”

A U.S. Department of State official could not share specific details of the case without written authorization of the people involved, but told The World these kinds of complaints are common in Mexico.

“In recent years, some U.S. citizens have complained that certain health-care facilities in beach resorts have taken advantage of them by overcharging or providing unnecessary medical care,” according to the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Consular Affairs website regarding Mexico. “A significant number of complaints have been lodged against some of the private hospitals in the Cabo San Lucas area, including complaints about price gouging and various unlawful and/or unethical pricing schemes and collection measures.”

And because hospitals in Mexico don’t accept U.S. health insurance, the family had to rush to scrape together enough money.

Steve Cooper, Leibelt’s childhood friend, launched an online fundraising campaign to help the family pay the bill. As of Friday, more than $31,000 had been raised. Due to his outreach, they were able to secure an air ambulance flight to transport Leibelt and his family to San Diego. On such short notice, the flight normally would have cost $18,000, but Larsen said the CEO waived the fee momentarily to get Leibelt out of Cabo.

After several delays — which Larsen said is because the hospital kept canceling the flight — Leibelt landed safely in San Diego Wednesday night. A team of doctors, including neurological specialists, are treating Leibelt at UC San Diego Medical Center. His family is staying at Bannister Family House nearby.

He has an infection in his left lung, is still on a ventilator, has minimal swelling in his brain and hasn’t shown improvement since Thursday, Larsen said. But his organs have recovered and doctors don’t believe he has pneumonia.

“It’s terrible,” Larsen said. “What do you do? You don’t expect to get hurt on vacation.”

The fundraiser will continue, she said, because the family still has to pay for the flight from Mexico to San Diego, expenses while Leibelt recovers in San Diego, the remaining hospital bill in Mexico, and medical bills he accrues from now on.

“We need prayers to continue,” Larsen said.

sunflower - 6-13-2014 at 06:10 PM

There is another post in Dailymail.co.uk that stated that the hospital end up charging $30k after the US consulate contacted the hospital. Traveling without insurance is a gamble. Hopefully he will be fine.

Medical Emeg

baja2013 - 6-13-2014 at 06:30 PM

I wonder if he had DAN....it would have been a lot easier?

baja Steve - 6-13-2014 at 06:37 PM

Have them check with their insurance company. When I am out of the country I have to pay the bill but my insurance company reimburses me after the deductible.

DENNIS - 6-13-2014 at 06:47 PM

Going to a hospital in Mexico is like going to jail. A large fine or bail must be paid before the inmate/patient is allowed to leave.

Good luck for those who get caught up in this "Medical Tourism" nonsense.

Katiejay99 - 6-13-2014 at 07:14 PM

Actually Dennis, I beg to differ.

I just had total knee replacement surgery in La Paz and it didn't cost me one dime. Sure, the hospitals are not like they are in the US, but I am not complaining. I have Seguro Popular.

CJ - 6-13-2014 at 07:51 PM

Katie,
Who did your knee replacement?.....sounds like you are happy with the results.

DENNIS - 6-13-2014 at 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
Actually Dennis, I beg to differ.

I just had total knee replacement surgery in La Paz and it didn't cost me one dime. Sure, the hospitals are not like they are in the US, but I am not complaining. I have Seguro Popular.

I was referring to emergency patients who are hospitalized without SP...or anything else that isn't based in Mexico.

Floatflyer - 6-13-2014 at 08:49 PM

Need the name of the treatment facility!!!

Katiejay99 - 6-13-2014 at 09:02 PM

Dennis: I was sort of sure you meant that, but you made a very broad statement. This thread shows both sides of a coin.

Dr. de la Toba did my surgery at Salvatierra Hospital. I am very happy with my surgery and with my doctor.

Gulliver - 6-13-2014 at 09:23 PM

Is Mexican citizenship necessary to participate in Seguro Popular?

Katiejay99 - 6-13-2014 at 09:31 PM

No Citizenship is not necessary.
I had to show proof of residency and my CURP (that is sort of like our social security number in the US but it has nothing to do with taxes. It is more a personal identification number given to you by the government) That's all other than answering a bunch of seemly silly questions but it was just what they ask to determine if you have to pay the annual fee or not.

[Edited on 6-14-2014 by Katiejay99]

La Paz - Purple Hospital

Carol - 6-14-2014 at 12:39 AM

I've needed to go in to the Private (Purple) Hospital in La Paz 2 times now and have found their service and prices to be excellent as well as quick. ~$50 for a consult, ~$50 for an ultrasound with a Dr actually doing it. Xrays are a little pricey, comparatively, at $125 and they're film. They also have a CT Xray machine.

A friend recently collapsed a lung and ended up in there for 3 nights (I think it was 3) and had a chest tube inserted and excellent monitoring. I think the bill was ~3K. I'm guessing a big chunk of that was multiple Xrays.

We're Canadian so our Health Plans will pay back whatever was medically necessary at no more than what the service would be in Canada. Which is to say all of what we'd pay in La Paz. I also have Travel Insurance though. I have been meaning to check out whether emergency return home is covered though as that's a pricey one.

I love the fact that La Paz is a business and Traveller town, versus a tourist town.

[Edited on 6-14-2014 by Carol]

DENNIS - 6-14-2014 at 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
Dennis: you made a very broad statement.

Yeah...I do that a lot. It saves a bunch of typing. :lol:

Thanks Katie.

mtgoat666 - 6-14-2014 at 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver

“In recent years, some U.S. citizens have complained that certain health-care facilities in beach resorts have taken advantage of them by overcharging or providing unnecessary medical care,” according to the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Consular Affairs website regarding Mexico. “A significant number of complaints have been lodged against some of the private hospitals in the Cabo San Lucas area, including complaints about price gouging and various unlawful and/or unethical pricing schemes and collection measures.”

Which state dept website says this???

Seems like someone or some agency should publish a list of med facilities that are generating the complaints.

SFandH - 6-14-2014 at 06:36 AM

After he got to San Diego:

"He has an infection in his left lung, is still on a ventilator, has minimal swelling in his brain and hasn’t shown improvement since Thursday, Larsen said."

He's in bad shape.

The $45K charge in Cabo sounds high but this guy needed a lot of treatment. Also he went into cardiac arrest in Cabo - major emergency treatment, and you know what, he's alive. Maybe the $45K isn't out of line. What would it be in the states?

As far as not letting him leave without paying the bill, well ..... DUH!!

Maybe the family should be thankful expert treatment was available and the Mex doctors saved his life.

bajalearner - 6-14-2014 at 06:42 AM

I don't get it. What is nightmare'ish about his medical problem? Or are you saying the nightmare for this guy is having to pay for his lifesaving treatment?

Well??? Here we go again, an American and his family are outraged because junior went to a foreign country, got ________ (fill in the blank) and expect to be given royal, free or gifted treatment because he/she is an American.

The story ends while saying "The fundraiser will continue, she said, because the family still has to pay for the flight from Mexico to San Diego, expenses while Leibelt recovers in San Diego, the remaining hospital bill in Mexico, and medical bills he accrues from now on. We need prayers to continue,” Larsen said."

So, this guy needs someone to pay for his medical problem weather it's in MX, the US or anywhere else he gets hurt.

It's a nightmare? Maybe it he/family wakes up the "nightmare" will turn to reality. Someone gets hurt, and is expected to pay for medical treatment. Outrageous.

Prayers? Asking for the invisible man in the sky to pay the bills I am guessing.

monoloco - 6-14-2014 at 08:10 AM

He may have been overcharged for treatment, but in the US, being overcharged is certain. I suspect that most of the people who complain about being gouged for medical care in Mexico have never paid for their own treatment at a hospital in the US where a room is $2000-$12,500 a day, over the counter drugs are marked up 1000%, and stitches can cost $500 EACH.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-s...

mtgoat666 - 6-14-2014 at 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
He may have been overcharged for treatment, but in the US, being overcharged is certain. I suspect that most of the people who complain about being gouged for medical care in Mexico have never paid for their own treatment at a hospital in the US where a room is $2000-$12,500 a day, over the counter drugs are marked up 1000%, and stitches can cost $500 EACH.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-s...

Thankfully here in the USA we have employer medical insurance for many, and obamacare for the rest. Insurance is nice way to handle urgent care! Urgent care without insurance will bankrupt you!

bajalearner - 6-14-2014 at 10:11 AM

Yes, the fact of any person suffering an injury or illness is tragic and would be a nightmare to me if it were my loved one. I wish this and any person the best.

But I took the point of the post and inclusive statements to say the MX hospital is wrong for expecting payment for their services. I understand they do not want a person who owes them allot of money, to just leave and never pay. I suspect they have little or no recourse. And I suspect their charges are comparable to other hospitals although probably excessive in my mind.

I just don't think it is unreasonable for a facility in a foreign country to require payment or some form of assurance of payment arrangement while the person or willing family members are present in their facility.

There are allot of people who would blow them off and never pay anything if they could get away with it.

micah202 - 6-14-2014 at 10:31 AM

.

....^^....probably a large-part why the costs are so high!

.

EnsenadaDr - 6-14-2014 at 12:08 PM

It's wonderful that we have Nomads to communicate and convey important information like this. Unfortunately many Americans that venture into Baja don't care to investigate healthcare coverage in Mexico which is understandable, they want to sigh that breath of relief that I feel and so many others do while crossing the border and relax. Unfortunately, these incidents do happen and some of them serious enough to cause loss of life.

In summary, there are private hospitals and public hospitals in Mexico. If you go to a private hospital as apparently this person did, they can and will charge whatever they want and no, you cannot be released unless the bill is paid in full. So your job as a Nomad and as a fellow American and Mexican or whatever your nationality might be, is to spread the good will by telling anyone you know that if they cross South of the Border to secure either Seguro Popular or IMSS (which has many restrictions including pre-existing conditions) or expect to pay their bill in a private hospital or not be released. Yes there are plans that cover some private hospitals but you need to investigate the special clauses thoroughly. DAN seems to be a great program to invest in if your goal is to return back to the US but if the condition is so serious that transporting might jeopardize the person's life then that would not be an option. The more you know, the more prepared you will be.

Any way we can reroute this discussion under the category Baja Health and Wellness?

[Edited on 6-14-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

wessongroup - 6-14-2014 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Thankfully here in the USA we have employer medical insurance for many, and obamacare for the rest. Insurance is nice way to handle urgent care! Urgent care without insurance will bankrupt you!

Would offer, that doesn't do much for keeping "Costs" down ... with both the Medical Care and Insurance ... just saying

[Edited on 6-14-2014 by wessongroup]

Katiejay99 - 6-14-2014 at 12:35 PM

EnsenadaDr: You make it sound like if you don't have insurance your only option is a private hospital and that just isn't the case. The word should be spread that if you don't have insurance, go to the public hospital! Their prices are based on a sliding scale, not on your nationality. I have been to public hospitals several times here without insurance and the cost was minimal and the care was good. Just don't expect them to be anything like the US and you will be fine.

Katiejay99 - 6-14-2014 at 12:45 PM

i want to say something else about the public hospitals. Every time I have been in one, they have striven to be sure that I had access to someone who spoke English even though I speak Spanish. They had social workers come in and they acted like they cared very much that I was happy and everything was well with me. I was very happy with them. The only thing is that with a public hospital you have to buy your meds from the pharmacies close by because they don't supply them unless you have their insurance. You must have someone with you 24/7 - it is one of their rules. That person is responsible for purchasing your meds, etc.

EnsenadaDr - 6-14-2014 at 12:57 PM

That's not what I said at all. I have continuously encouraged everyone on this board to sign up for Seguro Popular or IMSS. I am addressing the fact of this unfortunate person that had no public insurance and if he did he wouldn't have quite the bill he has now.

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
EnsenadaDr: You make it sound like if you don't have insurance your only option is a private hospital and that just isn't the case. The word should be spread that if you don't have insurance, go to the public hospital! Their prices are based on a sliding scale, not on your nationality. I have been to public hospitals several times here without insurance and the cost was minimal and the care was good. Just don't expect them to be anything like the US and you will be fine.

EnsenadaDr - 6-14-2014 at 01:00 PM

What do mean you have to have someone with you 24/7? They give you a prescription and you go to their pharmacy and pick it up. The public hospitals are very accomodating. I have had no problem with them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
i want to say something else about the public hospitals. Every time I have been in one, they have striven to be sure that I had access to someone who spoke English even though I speak Spanish. They had social workers come in and they acted like they cared very much that I was happy and everything was well with me. I was very happy with them. The only thing is that with a public hospital you have to buy your meds from the pharmacies close by because they don't supply them unless you have their insurance. You must have someone with you 24/7 - it is one of their rules. That person is responsible for purchasing your meds, etc.

Katiejay99 - 6-14-2014 at 01:12 PM

With Insurance, yes I have been able to get my prescriptions filled in the Hospital Salvatierra, but when I did not have insurance or if the pharmacy does not have the meds then they must be purchased by you at a local pharmacy. Maybe it is different in your area.

Insurance

bajaguy - 6-14-2014 at 01:17 PM

Anyone who travels to (or lives in) Baja/Mexico should have travel and or evacuation insurance. If you don't, you are gambling with your life.

Seguro Popular hospitals, Seguro Social (IMSS) hospitals

Mulegena - 6-14-2014 at 01:22 PM

It's my experience, too, that in the two public hospitals noted above each in-patient must have someone over age 18 in attendance 24-hours a day. Nurses do very little hands-on care. One's attendant may sleep in a chair or on the floor but may not bring a pillow or bedding for themselves. Medications are prescribed by the attending doctor but it's the responsibility of the patient to obtain the medicine. Additionally, some lab work that cannot be done in-facility must be mailed or otherwise couriered to an appropriate laboratory by the patient's representative.

The hospital one goes to correlates with the insurance the patient has; someone with Seguro Popular goes to Salvatierre Hospital in La Paz for example while someone with Seguro Social insurance goes to the IMSS facility. It's interesting to note that most of the same doctors serve both facilities. The difference is in what treatments are covered by each insurance, not the quality of care.

Note: Your insurance policy must be renewed each year in advance of its expiration date.

Anyone can elect to go to the Seguro Popular hospital for care or can go to a private doctor or private hospital.

BajaBlanca - 6-14-2014 at 04:58 PM

I am glad to see this, every ti e we learn a little more. I had no idea anyone could go to a public hospital and be seen to in an emergency.

When we were in La Paz, we got ourselves signed in to seguro popular. Just seemed so easy to do, and it was.

It is not unreasonable for the private hospital to charge what they wish and to ask for payment, as cruel as this seems.

redmesa - 6-14-2014 at 07:46 PM

Actually, I think it is unreasonable. What if a person can never pay the bill, do they keep them forever or send them to debtors prison?

shari - 6-14-2014 at 07:51 PM

depending on the hospital, they may relax some of the rules about what you can bring in the room. I had to spend a week taking care of Sirena's newborn and her after the dangerous birth and they allowed me to bring a camping matress, my pillow and blankets and I slept a bit under her hospital bed and yes patients are required to have someone with them all the time.

gnukid - 6-14-2014 at 09:49 PM

Nomads understand if you do not have insurance and you are taken to a hospital in Cabo you may be ripped off. Better to carry travel or local insurance for Baja when you travel, it is possible you will require a hospital visit out of your control.

Report of this incident:
http://colectivopericu.net/2014/06/13/denuncia-abuso-en-hosp...

Kgryfon - 6-15-2014 at 01:25 AM

What if you have no one to stay with you? They just leave you there to rot in your own feces until you die? What if you have two broken legs, or a heart attack and can't walk to the pharmacy? No meds for you so you writhe in pain or die?

Pescador - 6-15-2014 at 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
Actually, I think it is unreasonable. What if a person can never pay the bill, do they keep them forever or send them to debtors prison?

This reflects your experiences with the US Medical system which uses the emergency room or other clinic options to get treatment but basically no one is turned away. Here the system is different but you would do better to try to understand the system and not get stuck in a comparison.

In the US, hospitals have had to write off huge non-paid bills for people who could not pay for care and that is normally reflected in charging $25 for an aspirin and the kind of overcharges that are reported by many consumers. It is just the way that has evolved for a hospital to stay afloat.

In Mexico, the system is much different and the costs are much lower usually but are a more accurate reflection of actual costs than a contrived cost sharing basis. In more rural area like Santa Rosalia, I have gone in to the emergency room for an embedded fish hook and ended up paying nothing.

Now because Cabo and tourist destinations have a big influx of tourists who have accidents and get sick, the market has developed tourist facilities. Many have been reported as gouging and overcharging for treatments. That may well be true as they pretty much have a monopoly for those who happen to need their services, but it is unfair to put those facilities in the same basket as the general hospital or IMSS hospitals. It does point out the glaring differences between public and private health care in Mexico and an educated consumer can make appropriate choices.

The biggest problem is the short term tourist who thinks things are the same in Mexico as the United States only cheaper.

redmesa - 6-15-2014 at 07:20 AM

Pescadora, I understand the reason they do this but the reality is "How can they make that work?". They can not chain you to a bed or maybe they do? I do not use USA medical, I am Canadian. I have used Baja clinics before. I always have travel insurance and my Canadian medical covers me in Mexico, also..

Katiejay99 - 6-15-2014 at 08:04 AM

I had a friend who got drunk, got in a fight and ended up with a badly broken femur. A local Mexican rushed him to La Paz and the Salvatierra hospital. He had to have surgery but did not have the money so he had to call his sister to have the money wired here - $5,000 usd total. No insurance.They scheduled the surgery as soon as the money was paid.

durrelllrobert - 6-15-2014 at 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baja Steve
Have them check with their insurance company. When I am out of the country I have to pay the bill but my insurance company reimburses me after the deductible.

Kaiser has reimbursed me at least 80% on two different occasions.

Not all medical care is that way in Mexico

durrelllrobert - 6-15-2014 at 08:45 AM

A friend here in Punta Banda was extremely ill last week so Cruce Rosas was called and their ambulance transported her to the new International Hospital (downtown Ensenada on Lazaro Card##as behind the DHL office) at no charge. At that hospital she was treated and stabilized in ICU for about 4 hours ($500 US) and then transported by THEIR private ambulance to secondary at San Ysidro with one of their doctors on board, as well as her husband.($800 US) and they accepted a US credit card for the whole bill.
At secondary she was transferred to a US ambulance and driven to Scripps hospital in Chula Vista (about 8 miles) for $2,200 and the ICU there runs $3,800 / day.

Pescador - 6-15-2014 at 10:29 AM

I am not very well informed about the Canadian rules but was a specialist in Health Insurance before retirement. Most US policies have a provision for foreign travel and will reimburse you for whatever payments you make in a situation that is called threat to life or limb. Most insurance companies do not have a direct connection to hospitals in Mexico so it is reasonable to expect the customer will pay the bill, submit the bills on return, and will usually get reimbursed for "Normal and customary" which is usually based on a percentage of allowable Medicare reimbursement rates. Some will pay a percentage of amount billed but they know the rates are much lower in Mexico than they are for the United States or Canada.

Hopefully these kinds of discussions will get people to check with their agent about how they are covered when traveling to a foreign country.
And it certainly makes sense to have evacuation insurance of one kind or the other if you think it is important to return to your country of origin for treatment.

Too many people come down for vacation and think it is like an extended trip to Disneyland and when an accident or illness strikes then they are totally unprepared. When I had clients who were travelling abroad, I always filled them in beforehand about what they could expect. But, if most people are like a lot of my clients they only read the policy after they have a problem.

EnsenadaDr - 6-15-2014 at 11:11 AM

or have a credit card that has a sufficient balance to pay Dianamed or other ambulance.

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Anyone who travels to (or lives in) Baja/Mexico should have travel and or evacuation insurance. If you don't, you are gambling with your life.

EnsenadaDr - 6-15-2014 at 11:13 AM

Yes Bob, but hopefully she had medicare or other insurance to cover most of her expenses in the US.

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
A friend here in Punta Banda was extremely ill last week so Cruce Rosas was called and their ambulance transported her to the new International Hospital (downtown Ensenada on Lazaro Card##as behind the DHL office) at no charge. At that hospital she was treated and stabilized in ICU for about 4 hours ($500 US) and then transported by THEIR private ambulance to secondary at San Ysidro with one of their doctors on board, as well as her husband.($800 US) and they accepted a US credit card for the whole bill.
At secondary she was transferred to a US ambulance and driven to Scripps hospital in Chula Vista (about 8 miles) for $2,200 and the ICU there runs $3,800 / day.

durrelllrobert - 6-15-2014 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Yes Bob, but hopefully she had medicare or other insurance to cover most of her expenses in the US.

Quote:

She's on Tricare from the VA

Feathers - 6-15-2014 at 03:34 PM

Quote:

wow.

just WOW.

CaboMagic - 6-15-2014 at 06:29 PM

Have to say Pescador - I find your input/posts so valuable. Thank you for them.

We provide the following note to every client. Welcome input from any Nomads on additional info we ought provide:

In Cast of Emergency
No one wants a vacation trip interrupted by an emergency – in Cabo or back home.

It is important to be prepared.

You can provide your home/office with our contact information. Vonage Tel 619.819.8634 or US Tollfree 888.475.5337

We can generally get a message to you provided we know the name your resort/villa/timeshare reservation is in. This is important.

We respectfully suggest you don’t use any product for the first time in Cabo – especially over the counter sea-sickness meds!

Why not do a test run before you travel to be certain you don’t suffer from an adverse reaction.

If you find yourself in an emergency medical or dental situation contact the General Manager of your resort – ask if they have an on-site physician. Some provide contact information for a general doctor or dentist.

It’s a good idea to check with your insurance provider in the USA about their policy concerning benefits/coverage

Kgryfon - 6-16-2014 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kgryfon
What if you have no one to stay with you? They just leave you there to rot in your own feces until you die? What if you have two broken legs, or a heart attack and can't walk to the pharmacy? No meds for you so you writhe in pain or die?

I'm bumping this because I didn't get an answer, and I really would like to know since I am single. I most likely wouldn't have someone that could sit with me 24 hrs a day...so...what would happen?

Edited to say I WOULDN'T ,not would, have someone to stay with me.

[Edited on 6-20-2014 by Kgryfon]

Travelinleah - 6-16-2014 at 07:33 PM

Can a tourist who only spends winter in Baja get IMSS or seguro popular? Am I right in thinking that it is better to go to public hospital rather than private? I've been gathering my credit cards in case of such an emergency, hearing the horror stories of injured tourists in Cabo. What about Good Sam Travel Assist, anyone have any idea if this good enough for evac etc? http://www.goodsamtravelassist.com/

Katiejay99 - 6-16-2014 at 08:08 PM

The Public hospital is cheaper whether you have insurance or not.
I think you have to be a resident or at least own property in order to get Seguro Popular, but I am not certain. I know that you must have a CURP number.

One of the prerequisites to be admitted is that you have someone with you. Another is that if you need surgery, depending on the surgery, you need 1 or 2 people to donate blood in your name. It must be done before you will be admitted for surgery.

I hope this helps.

Pescador - 6-17-2014 at 07:13 AM

You need a CURP card and if you are a renter you are eligible for Seguros Popular. You can show an electric bill or Telephone bill. The fee varies by office from free in some places in Ensenada to 1200 pesos a year for an individual. The individual has some ability to charge what they think is right. But if you take out a year and don't use it, where else could you get basic coverage for $100 US dollars a year.

EnsenadaDr - 6-17-2014 at 10:50 AM

Katie, I worked for several years in the IMSS hospital in Ensenada, and they don't require you to have someone sit with you 24 hours a day. You first brought this up about getting a prescription filled and that you must have someone sit with you. This also is not true. If a patient has Alzheimer's then they must be supervised by a family member but a normal functioning person who has all of his or her faculties doesn't need to have supervision. If you have an outpatient procedure, then yes you would need someone to drive you home. In an emergency surgery situation it is pretty obvious you would not be required to donate blood before hand, however, with an elective surgery they might require it due to the scarcity of blood available.

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
The Public hospital is cheaper whether you have insurance or not.
I think you have to be a resident or at least own property in order to get Seguro Popular, but I am not certain. I know that you must have a CURP number.

One of the prerequisites to be admitted is that you have someone with you. Another is that if you need surgery, depending on the surgery, you need 1 or 2 people to donate blood in your name. It must be done before you will be admitted for surgery.

I hope this helps.

Mulegena - 6-17-2014 at 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Katie, I worked for several years in the IMSS hospital in Ensenada, and they don't require you to have someone sit with you 24 hours a day. You first brought this up about getting a prescription filled and that you must have someone sit with you. This also is not true. If a patient has Alzheimer's then they must be supervised by a family member but a normal functioning person who has all of his or her faculties doesn't need to have supervision. If you have an outpatient procedure, then yes you would need someone to drive you home. In an emergency surgery situation it is pretty obvious you would not be required to donate blood before hand, however, with an elective surgery they might require it due to the scarcity of blood available.

Quote:

First, let me state that I'm not taking issue with the veracity of anyone's statements.

My observations, admittedly limited, support the theory that every patient in either a Seguro Popular or Seguro Social (IMSS) hospital-- at least here in the Mexican State of Baja Sur-- in practice has someone with them 24/7 during their in-patient stay. If they are receiving blood as a part of their treatment the patient is required to replace it or pay for it. This is what I've seen in practice, not necessarily written down in the rulebook, but experienced personally or heard from others in corroboration.

Edited to add this link to a pertinent article: http://www.bajainsider.com/baja-life/health/emergencymedical...

[Edited on 6-17-2014 by Mulegena]

Katiejay99 - 6-17-2014 at 01:19 PM

EnsenadaDr I respectfully acknowledge your knowledge of Baja North.

EnsenadaDr - 6-18-2014 at 05:23 AM

Here is an article in Spanish which states that IMSS asks the families to respect the hours of visitation and NOT be at the bedside between the hours of 7 and 8 am and 4 pm and 6 pm. when the staff is giving medication and providing personal care to the patient.

It also states that the patient must have time to recuperate and in no cases are family allowed at the bedside at that time. So where this idea o 24/7 of being with the patient is confusing to me. They do suggest to have a spokesman for the family to discuss issues etc.

http://www.elsiglodetorreon.com.mx/noticia/894931.pide-imss-...

SFandH - 6-18-2014 at 05:43 AM

Doc, maybe different hospitals do things differently...............

EnsenadaDr - 6-18-2014 at 05:49 AM

Could be, I know that when I worked in the US the family of the patient, especially large Mexican families wanted to have everyone in the room when the limit was 2 visitors at a time. It was very hard to enforce that rule without offending anyone especially when the patient was tired and just wanted to rest.

I imagine that most hospitals in Mexico try and respect the family's wishes, but the rules set by IMSS are for all of their hospitals, as I remember the nurses shooing out the families during these times and were strict about it.

Quote:

Originally posted by SFandH
Doc, maybe different hospitals do things differently...............

[Edited on 6-18-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Katiejay99 - 6-18-2014 at 06:14 AM

EnsenadaDr: There are two types of public hospitals (as I am sure you know, but I mention it for our readers sake). The IMSS hospital is for people with insurance under IMSS which is mostly government workers as I understand it.

The second one is for people with Seguro Popular. As that is what I have, that is the only one I can speak of. It is a fact that at the Salvatierra hospital you absolutely MUST have someone there with you. Maybe I will scan the paperwork I got from the hospital and post it but I don't really feel like doing it just to prove myself correct. I just got out of the hospital and I certainly do know their rules and regulations.

Also, only 1 person is allowed in the room at a time and visitors must hand over a form of ID to the guard before being allowed to enter. He has a large tray in front of him with all of the room numbers on it with a place to put someones ID in that slot. The person with the patient is allowed to leave to go get lunch, dinner or coffee (all to be eaten or drunk before entering the guard area). The guard will allow 2 ID's if someone has come to relieve the other person. They get very testy if a slot is empty for more than an hour.

vandenberg - 6-18-2014 at 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kgryfon

I'm bumping this because I didn't get an answer, and I really would like to know since I am single. I most likely woudl have someone that could sit with me 24 hrs a day...so...what would happen?

My wife had surgery in the Salvatierra hospital in La Paz and I paid a nurse to be the person with her a nominal amount, since there was no place to sleep in or near the room.

This was some time ago at the old location.

[Edited on 6-18-2014 by vandenberg]

EnsenadaDr - 6-18-2014 at 06:34 AM

Here is the home page of the hospital for the family of patients where it says you can only visit patients from 11:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. and from 4:00 p.m. to 6 pm. ICU and pediatrics have different visiting hours. Look under guia para el familiar de paciente hospitalizado. (Guide for the family of the hospitalized patient.) It's possible if you don't speak Spanish they would want a family member there all the time to translate for the staff.

http://www.hgejms.gob.mx/departamentos/trabajo.social/trabaj...

[Edited on 6-18-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 6-18-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Katiejay99 - 6-18-2014 at 06:41 AM

Boy, you are one stubborn woman!

Visitors have visiting hours and they are: 11am-12:30pm and 4pm-6pm. THOSE ARE VISITORS (which may or may not be family or a noted responsible party). They are NOT the person who must stay with the patient 24/7. When you go into the hospital you must give them the name and phone number of the person(s) who will be a "responsible party" ie there 24/7. As I had 2 different people helping me, they took turns. As one was with me the other was actually living in my van (which I bought in October from a Nomad) and it was parked in the parking lot. The van has a refrigerator, stove and water storage as well as the bed - its' a great camper/van.

Ok - look at #4 of your post. Es importante que la familia haga o tome turnos para el cuidado del paciente, no es necesario permanecer todos en el Hospital. Which says: It is important that the family takes turns to care for the patient and it is not necessary for all of them to stay in the hospital.

Also, my two friends are not family. One was Mexican who speaks no English and the other was American who speaks passable Spanish.

And if doesn't do it for you then I give up.

[Edited on 6-18-2014 by Katiejay99]

EnsenadaDr - 6-18-2014 at 07:00 AM

I believe you but what if someone has no one to help? They are denied medical care?

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
Boy, you are one stubborn woman!

Visitors have visiting hours and they are: 11am-12:30pm and 4pm-6pm. THOSE ARE VISITORS (which may or may not be family or a noted responsible party). They are NOT the person who must stay with the patient 24/7. When you go into the hospital you must give them the name and phone number of the person(s) who will be a "responsible party" ie there 24/7. As I had 2 different people helping me, they took turns. As one was with me the other was actually living in my van (which I bought in October from a Nomad) and it was parked in the parking lot. The van has a refrigerator, stove and water storage as well as the bed - its' a great camper/van.

Ok - look at #4 of your post. Es importante que la familia haga o tome turnos para el cuidado del paciente, no es necesario permanecer todos en el Hospital. Which says: It is important that the family takes turns to care for the patient and it is not necessary for all of them to stay in the hospital.

Also, my two friends are not family. One was Mexican who speaks no English and the other was American who speaks passable Spanish.

And if doesn't do it for you then I give up.

[Edited on 6-18-2014 by Katiejay99]

This should settle the question of patient-care.

Mulegena - 6-18-2014 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I believe you but what if someone has no one to help? They are denied medical care?

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

Quote:

Kgryfon - 6-19-2014 at 10:55 PM

Thanks. I guess that works if you have time to find a nurse before you go in (elective/scheduled). Maybe they have a list of people at the hospital for referral if not, or if you come in on an emergency basis...

Pescador - 6-20-2014 at 06:37 AM

Quote:

Good for you KatyJay99, I ran into the same stubborn response when I reported that the Seguro Popular offices charged for coverage on a sliding scale, which was consistent with the published rules on the Seguro Popular website. But the good doctora figured that because the hospital she was attached to did not charge that no one else in the country did charge. As those of us who have been here for awhile can attest, things are different at each and every hospital.

In Santa Rosalia, which takes Seguros Popular, they do not require a family member or other to attend, but will ask for some extra monies above what is covered by the Seguros for an attendant. They do have a pharmacy office, but it almost never has any medicines so you do have to go out and buy whatever the doctor prescribes.

EnsenadaDr - 6-20-2014 at 07:01 AM

I guess the rules and regs of IMSS that are clearly printed on the hospital website are not necessarily the norm for every IMSS hospital. That is why we are here, to exchange information. I just find it hard to believe in an institution such as IMSS, that they change their rules and regs from hospital to hospital, but that happens a lot in Mexico it seems. I also feel bad for patients who don't have the money to hire a nurse in La Paz or have a family member, this excludes them from surgery it appears. By the way, Pescador, it's Seguro Popular, not Seguros Popular. I am very glad to learn of differences all over Baja, it is surprising but these differences are important for each of the areas to know about.

Katiejay99 - 6-20-2014 at 07:11 AM

Geesh EnsenadaDr haven't you figured out yet that we are talking about TWO DIFFERENT Hospitals? IMSS is ONE and Public/Seguro Popular is ANOTHER.

EnsenadaDr - 6-20-2014 at 07:13 AM

You are right. IMSS and Seguro Popular are two different hospitals. However, generally the public government hospitals such as Seguro Popular hospitals and IMSS usually don't allow family members at the bedside, regardless when there are no visiting hours. However, it appears from Pescador's info on payments with Seguro Popular and your information on Salvatierra Seguro Popular hospital that rules vary from region to region. Thanks for the information, it is greatly appreciated! It is not stubborness, it is trying to make sure the information is accurate and it appears it is. However, rules are rules and as physicians we need to abide by them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
Geesh EnsenadaDr haven't you figured out yet that we are talking about TWO DIFFERENT Hospitals? IMSS is ONE and Public/Seguro Popular is ANOTHER.

[Edited on 6-20-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 6-20-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Katiejay99 - 6-20-2014 at 07:14 AM

I know Pescador. It seems like I am just butting my head against a wall with her. I don't know why some people want everything to be the same everywhere and NOT UNDERSTAND that different states or hospitals have different rules. DUH.

It is important that those of us WHO LIVE in the areas we speak of do speak out so that others know of what to expect in THAT area.

EnsenadaDr - 6-20-2014 at 07:21 AM

Thanks again Katie. I have learned something. Your contributions here are invaluable as are others' comments. Please make sure you post in the category Baja Health and Wellness next time so that others looking for this information will be able to find the postings easier.

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
I know Pescador. It seems like I am just butting my head against a wall with her. I don't know why some people want everything to be the same everywhere and NOT UNDERSTAND that different states or hospitals have different rules. DUH.

It is important that those of us WHO LIVE in the areas we speak of do speak out so that others know of what to expect in THAT area.

Katiejay99 - 6-20-2014 at 07:26 AM

You know what EnsenadaDr, I don't know anything about physicians rules and if that is what you were talking about all along, it would have been nice if you had clarified that before now. I also know nothing about IMSS (as I stated earlier).

I believe most of the readers here are just ordinary folks like me and want to know what to expect as an ordinary person. I hope I have helped them in some small way.

EnsenadaDr - 6-20-2014 at 08:35 AM

Thanks again Katie. We need people like you who are users of the systems to comment and give out information to make things better for all of us!! Have a wonderful day, and yes, you have helped tremendously!

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
You know what EnsenadaDr, I don't know anything about physicians rules and if that is what you were talking about all along, it would have been nice if you had clarified that before now. I also know nothing about IMSS (as I stated earlier).

I believe most of the readers here are just ordinary folks like me and want to know what to expect as an ordinary person. I hope I have helped them in some small way.

BajaLuna - 6-20-2014 at 10:21 AM

thanks Katie for all the great info! And thanks too for sticking with the post to get the information out there among those who seem to be at times attached to their 'rightness".

It's good to learn of peoples experiences with this topic!

El Jefe - 6-20-2014 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

While swimming in the ocean on Monday, he was stung by a jellyfish and went in to cardiac arrest.

This is the part of this whole story that kind of freaks me out. Healthy 28 year old goes into arrest from aguamale sting. Yeow! I hate those little buggers. They REALLY hurt. But cardiac arrest. That is scary.

BTW, both times I've been to private hospital here in San Jose del my USA insurance reimbursed 100% One bill for busting my noggin was 10K.

El Jefe - 6-21-2014 at 10:34 AM

Agua mala is what the locals call the small jellies that look like a bubble on the surface. About the size of a nickle or quarter. Electric blue gut and quite long tentacle tail. Yes, I have been hit by these and it's no fun at all. I did get a little shocky after one particularly bad episode. Some people call them man o' war but I think that is something else.

I get up to the house and apply heat as soon as possible. Get a pot going at hot as you can stand and rotate wet hot wash cloths or small towels. Provides immediate pain relief.

Mulegena - 6-21-2014 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by El Jefe
I hate those little buggers. They REALLY hurt. But cardiac arrest. That is scary.

What do you mean by "agua mala"? You ever been hit by a man-o-war?

... or a Scorpion Fish, both of whom are masters of disguise, which is their hunting mechanism, not that they're aggressive just sneaky fish-hunter predators.

Agua Mala refers to the little phyto-plankton that live in the shallows of the warm waters down here and are dinner to the very gentle whalesharks that swim around.