BajaNomad

PuntaFinal BIG PROBLEMS POLICE INVOLVED

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cabaja - 8-7-2014 at 08:03 AM

***NEWS NEWS Police throwing out belonging at Camp***

Because of many years of fighting at the Mexican Court system with many of the tenants at Punta Final Campo it has come to a boil...!!!

The new landlord at PuntaFinal Kevin Choi has been wanting an increase in rents of 300%-400% when he took over or when the old leases expired..

Many of the tenants have been there for more 20 to 50 years..

Today the fun has started there are 4 large trucks there with a large Police presence and throwing all the tenants belongings out on the street and taking the best stuff with them, going to?

More news and Pictures to follow and updates on www.PuntaFinal.com

Sad Sad day in history making!!!!



[Edited on 8-7-2014 by cabaja]

rts551 - 8-7-2014 at 08:29 AM

what did residents expect once it was time to renew their lease?

rts551 - 8-7-2014 at 08:33 AM

yur title says it all "PUTAFINAL"
Quote:
Originally posted by cabaja
***NEWS NEWS Police trowing out belonging at Camp***

Because of many years of fighting at the Mexican Court system with many of the tenants at Punta Final Campo it has come to a boil...!!!

The new landlord at PuntaFinal Kevin Choi has been wanting an increase in rents of 300%-400% when he took over or when the old leases expired..

Many of the tenants have been there for more 20 to 30 years..

Today the fun has started there are 4 large trucks there with a large Police presents and trowing all the tenants belongs out on the street or?

More news to follow and updates on PuntaFinal.com

Said Said day in history making!!!!

[Edited on 8-7-2014 by cabaja]

monoloco - 8-7-2014 at 08:33 AM

A lease in Mexico is not valid for more than 10 years, the land owner is within his rights to charge whatever he wants when the lease expires.

willardguy - 8-7-2014 at 08:37 AM

just another chapter.....

micah202 - 8-7-2014 at 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
just another chapter.....


.....juts nadda chupala inda Puttafinale tsory ;D
.

[Edited on 8-7-2014 by micah202]

desertcpl - 8-7-2014 at 09:01 AM

Holly Crap

spend a lot to time there, just love it

my good friends have a place, been there since the 50s

bajabuddha - 8-7-2014 at 09:19 AM

...bad roads bring good people....

willardguy - 8-7-2014 at 09:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
...bad roads bring good people....

I don't know about that, they brought Kevin!

David K - 8-7-2014 at 09:26 AM

Maybe he flew in?

bacquito - 8-7-2014 at 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Maybe he flew in?


:lol:
Also, what are the results of the Campo Packard situation and the Bufadora saga??

bajabuddha - 8-7-2014 at 09:47 AM

My 'bad roads' post meant that since the highway has been completed all the way down to Punta Final, the price of real estate just went WAY up. The whole corridor will drastically change in the next 10 years.

Twenty years ago, I used to 'teasingly' refer to San Felipe as ''Little San Diego'' with the influx of weekend homes popping up the 10 miles north and south of town. The OG's of the strip will sell, the new tenants will pay the inflated prices and think they got their chunk of paradise. The new highway is definitely a mixed blessing, but a definite blessing for the land owners (other than Gov't taxes).

You Can't just charge what you feel like..

cabaja - 8-7-2014 at 10:00 AM

That could be nice if you could charge what ever you like!!!!

So you are telling us for example you buy a house in a campo pay $100,000 for the house, you have it for 10 years the rent example: was $1,400 a year..

Now your lease expires and you want a new lease (the property land got sold) you now have a NEW landlord and he says i'm raising your lease to $5,600 a year or $10,000 a year....

They can do this????????????? Don't think so there are Mexican Laws..

If that was the case now your house is worth maybe $10,000 or less because of the lease increase....

redmesa - 8-7-2014 at 10:21 AM

Rule 1 ---never build a 100,000 dollar house on ejido or leased land in Mexico because it could easily not be yours in a few years.

bajabuddha - 8-7-2014 at 10:24 AM

Rule # 2- (again) NEVER invest in Mexico what you cannot afford to walk away from.

woody with a view - 8-7-2014 at 10:24 AM

they can do what they want. you only rent for the duration of the lease and that's it. everything you build is for the owner if he jacks up your rent and you can't/don't want to afford it.

there's a saying about don't invest more than you're willing to walk away from! I tell myself that regularly.....

monoloco - 8-7-2014 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cabaja
That could be nice if you could charge what ever you like!!!!

So you are telling us for example you buy a house in a campo pay $100,000 for the house, you have it for 10 years the rent example: was $1,400 a year..

Now your lease expires and you want a new lease (the property land got sold) you now have a NEW landlord and he says i'm raising your lease to $5,600 a year or $10,000 a year....

They can do this????????????? Don't think so there are Mexican Laws..

If that was the case now your house is worth maybe $10,000 or less because of the lease increase....
The maximum term of a lease in Mexico is 10 years, after that, you legally are owed nothing, the land owner can legally raise the rent to whatever he wants or he can just say see ya later, get the F out. That is Mexican law in a nutshell.

rts551 - 8-7-2014 at 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cabaja
That could be nice if you could charge what ever you like!!!!

So you are telling us for example you buy a house in a campo pay $100,000 for the house, you have it for 10 years the rent example: was $1,400 a year..

Now your lease expires and you want a new lease (the property land got sold) you now have a NEW landlord and he says i'm raising your lease to $5,600 a year or $10,000 a year....

They can do this????????????? Don't think so there are Mexican Laws..

If that was the case now your house is worth maybe $10,000 or less because of the lease increase....


Why don't you think so? What law were you thinking of?

motoged - 8-7-2014 at 10:36 AM

I have friends here in Canada who lost their homes/summer homes on Indian reserves when Band Councils decided they wanted their property to themselves....never jacked up the rent....just told them to move.

It happens.....buyer beware !

Cypress - 8-7-2014 at 10:55 AM

Check out the situation at Priest Lake in ID. Long term leases? Improvements? This is in the USA. Gonna be one big auction with the feds handling the gavel. Some very high dollar properties will be up for grabs.:o

DianaT - 8-7-2014 at 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Quote:
Originally posted by cabaja
That could be nice if you could charge what ever you like!!!!

So you are telling us for example you buy a house in a campo pay $100,000 for the house, you have it for 10 years the rent example: was $1,400 a year..

Now your lease expires and you want a new lease (the property land got sold) you now have a NEW landlord and he says i'm raising your lease to $5,600 a year or $10,000 a year....

They can do this????????????? Don't think so there are Mexican Laws..

If that was the case now your house is worth maybe $10,000 or less because of the lease increase....


Why don't you think so? What law were you thinking of?


I may be wrong, but my understanding is that any agreements for renewal at any price that are included in the original lease are NOT enforceable. And that at the end of the 10 years, the land owner can charge what they want or not renew the lease if they so choose.

If there is a law that states otherwise, it would be good to know.

IMHO, it is risky business to buy a home on leased land, or in the name of another person, or as is happening in some places, to buy the land and put it in some else's corporation and then pay that corporation an annual fee, because the titled owner can change things and you might be out to lunch.

We "owned" part of our property in the name of another person who we totally trusted and it worked out just fine, but we knew the risks.

Buyer beware --- absolutely

StuckSucks - 8-7-2014 at 11:54 AM

I see raising rent in Punta Final as just a piece of the "progress" pie. The paved road arrives in Gonzaga. There's a new Supermercado Gigante in San Felipe. Alfonsina's adds a front gate and guard, has raised rates and is adding rooms. Rancho Grande has raised their rates.

The owner of Punta Final can probably smell all the cash a Hilton resort will generate on his spectacular location.

The infrastructure creeps southward and with it, higher prices.

For good or bad, things change, but for me, the worst is yet to come.

The good news is, for a while longer, we still know where we can go to hide from blacktop and tourists. It just takes a little more work to get there.

brewer - 8-7-2014 at 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
Rule # 2- (again) NEVER invest in Mexico what you cannot afford to walk away from.


WORD!

desertcpl - 8-7-2014 at 12:24 PM

the last time I went down, maybe 3 yrs ago,, I was amazed

at the remodeling going on,, a lot of new owners were buying

some of the older places and spending thousands

personally I hate to see this happening, my friend that has his place there is up in age now,

but what part of having only a 10 yr lease max,, don't they understand,

rts551 - 8-7-2014 at 12:45 PM

Yes, very true. Holding your property in someone elses (or their business's) name can be more risky than a lease. The courts have found over and over that this is not an enforceable agreement. You might trust them today but things and circumstances change....I know of one instance where the owner on paper died, the property passing to the oldest child. that child demanded the people living on the land "purchase" the property or leave.

What if the cooperation dissolves? or there is a divorce? or heaven forbid someone dies? or you have a spat with your friend/owner? to many things to go wrong and you lose it all.
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Quote:
Originally posted by cabaja
That could be nice if you could charge what ever you like!!!!

So you are telling us for example you buy a house in a campo pay $100,000 for the house, you have it for 10 years the rent example: was $1,400 a year..

Now your lease expires and you want a new lease (the property land got sold) you now have a NEW landlord and he says i'm raising your lease to $5,600 a year or $10,000 a year....

They can do this????????????? Don't think so there are Mexican Laws..

If that was the case now your house is worth maybe $10,000 or less because of the lease increase....


Why don't you think so? What law were you thinking of?


I may be wrong, but my understanding is that any agreements for renewal at any price that are included in the original lease are NOT enforceable. And that at the end of the 10 years, the land owner can charge what they want or not renew the lease if they so choose.

If there is a law that states otherwise, it would be good to know.

IMHO, it is risky business to buy a home on leased land, or in the name of another person, or as is happening in some places, to buy the land and put it in some else's corporation and then pay that corporation an annual fee, because the titled owner can change things and you might be out to lunch.

We "owned" part of our property in the name of another person who we totally trusted and it worked out just fine, but we knew the risks.

Buyer beware --- absolutely

rhintransit - 8-7-2014 at 01:13 PM

My understanding is that you can only raise rent 4% per year! don't know if that applies to leases. Folks in El Juncalito have sued and won based on that but ultimately won, or are in court currently, because the "landlords" did not have the right to rent the (ejido) property. Whole thing started when rents went up by 50% or more

[Edited on 8-7-2014 by rhintransit]

chuckie - 8-7-2014 at 01:32 PM

It's Mexico...Look at Punta Arena, Buenaventura..lotsa others. People love to quote that "Walk away" rule but after just a couple of years they have built Palapas, Bodegas, patios, sleeping quarters and when the axe falls they squeal like stuck hogs. You might be able to win in a court over an ejido dispute, if you have enough time and money, but is it really worth it? Leaves a really bad taste in the mouth. Not for me...I didn't come to Baja for stress and litigation..

larryC - 8-7-2014 at 02:28 PM

The house I just sold in bola was on its second 10 year lease. the land owners wrote me a new 10 year lease when the first one expired and didn't even raise the $1100 annual lease payment. So ultimately it depends on the family or person you are dealing with. Sad to hear about the rents in Punta Final going up so much, but as others have said- it is the owners land and he can do what he/she or they want.
Larry

weebray - 8-7-2014 at 04:05 PM

On our recent trip north we took a right at Chapala and after suffering the first 30+ miles of unpleasant but familiar rock pathways. (and an unpleasant stop at Coco's corner) We were shocked and amazed at the super freeway they have built where not so long ago only burros trod. I remarked how it just did not make economic sense for Baja Norte to invest huge (really huge) amounts of $ for a road to nowhere. Just like Hwy 1 south of San Quintin, where is the economic benefit to BN to maintain the road? It's only there to provide a path for trucks heading south to bring stuff to La Paz and Cabo. I remarked that it smelled like some dirt pimp developer was up to their old tricks. You 'all just answered my question..... BTW where is punta final?

chuckie - 8-7-2014 at 04:07 PM

Wait, Grasshopper, be patient and the truth shall emerge...

weebray - 8-7-2014 at 04:29 PM

On our recent trip north we took a right at Chapala and after suffering the first 30+ miles of unpleasant but familiar rock pathways. (and an unpleasant stop at Coco's corner) We were shocked and amazed at the super freeway they have built where not so long ago only burros trod. I remarked how it just did not make economic sense for Baja Norte to invest huge (really huge) amounts of $ for a road to nowhere. Just like Hwy 1 south of San Quintin, where is the economic benefit to BN to maintain the road? It's only there to provide a path for trucks heading south to bring stuff to La Paz and Cabo. I remarked that it smelled like some dirt pimp developer was up to their old tricks. You 'all just answered my question..... BTW where is punta final?

David K - 8-7-2014 at 06:05 PM

Punta Final is the south end of the Ensenada de San Francisquito, but everyone calls it "Gonzaga Bay" along with the true Gonzaga just north (which some call "Willard Bay").

The 'resort' of Punta Final was originally a gold and supply shipping place called Puerto de San Francisquito, then a vacation village was started under the name Villa Mar y Sol. When the real owner of the land threw them off (early 1970's), the name Punta Final was used for the new campo/ resort.











rts551 - 8-7-2014 at 06:14 PM

It opens up an alternative route for the trucks traveling North!
Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
On our recent trip north we took a right at Chapala and after suffering the first 30+ miles of unpleasant but familiar rock pathways. (and an unpleasant stop at Coco's corner) We were shocked and amazed at the super freeway they have built where not so long ago only burros trod. I remarked how it just did not make economic sense for Baja Norte to invest huge (really huge) amounts of $ for a road to nowhere. Just like Hwy 1 south of San Quintin, where is the economic benefit to BN to maintain the road? It's only there to provide a path for trucks heading south to bring stuff to La Paz and Cabo. I remarked that it smelled like some dirt pimp developer was up to their old tricks. You 'all just answered my question..... BTW where is punta final?

brewer - 8-7-2014 at 06:33 PM

Does EVERYONE know where Punta Final is now.

rts551 - 8-7-2014 at 06:46 PM

I thought it was villa mar y sol based on the map I saw

desertcpl - 8-7-2014 at 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by brewer
Does EVERYONE know where Punta Final is now.




yes

chuckie - 8-7-2014 at 06:53 PM

Maybe we could get some more maps...

akshadow - 8-7-2014 at 07:16 PM

What will the yearly rates be after the increase? what are the sizes of the lots and are any services included?
If the rents are too high they will not beable to rent to new people. So that may determine if they are too high>
Quote:
Originally posted by cabaja
***NEWS NEWS Police throwing out belonging at Camp***


The new landlord at PuntaFinal Kevin Choi has been wanting an increase in rents of 300%-400% when he took over or when the old leases expired..

PuntaFinal.com

Sad Sad day in history making!!!!



[Edited on 8-7-2014 by cabaja]

BajaBlanca - 8-7-2014 at 07:26 PM

David - thanks for posting the maps!

freediverbrian - 8-7-2014 at 07:46 PM

I am sorry to hear about the problems at PF . I hope that the owners are not greedy and looking for some fast cash , it is not there. A good road and more people although enticing is not the answer to quick money. with no power and no water gonzaga is just a niche spot, just look at Puertecitos.

UnoMas - 8-7-2014 at 07:47 PM

Don't EVER put anything on leased land in Mexico that does not have a trailer hitch attached to it. :light:

C205Driver - 8-7-2014 at 08:11 PM

. . . Thanks David K for posting the various maps; some of us appreciate your time on enhancing our knowledge of Baja. . .

Lee - 8-7-2014 at 08:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by UnoMas
Don't EVER put anything on leased land in Mexico that does not have a trailer hitch attached to it. :light:


That about sums it up. Don't do it. Or, if you do put ''improvements'' onto leased land, know it now belongs to the owner and you are renting it. Why would any do that?

Cliffy - 8-7-2014 at 11:35 PM

OK so I looked at the web site saw the pictures and have questions-
Has anyone agreed to pay the higher rates?
If they have are they being thrown out also?
Is EVERYONE being tossed out or just the non-payers?
Has there been a FINAL decision in any of the court cases or is the landlord jumping the gun?
Was there any notice to those being tossed out that they had so many days to vacate or else?
How high are the new rates? In UDS.
Just asking for a better picture of what is happening there.
?

bajabuddha - 8-8-2014 at 05:20 AM

I coulda seen this coming from 500 kliks away. I'll have to email my friends at Gonzaga; they have a li'l oasis they've 'owned'(?) for over 20 years now; i'll try to raise 'em, see what their take... and situation... is there. More to come.

chuckie - 8-8-2014 at 05:39 AM

Stick a fork in that deal, it's done...Their website shows piles of stuff dumped in the desert and the good stuff being hauled off....Not much commentary, but lotsa cops, so must be sorta legal.....several homes for sale:no:

bajabuddha - 8-8-2014 at 06:45 AM

I'd just be curious to know what the annual lease was..... and is now, and what it entails as far as tenant amenities.

chuckie - 8-8-2014 at 02:02 PM

I do not know what the base lease was but the increases were 400 per cent..per the website

monoloco - 8-8-2014 at 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
I do not know what the base lease was but the increases were 400 per cent..per the website
What does it matter? It's the same in the states, when your lease is up, the landlord can raise the rent as much as he wants. You are free to pay it or move, why would anyone expect it to be any different in Mexico?

chuckie - 8-8-2014 at 03:29 PM

I don't..someone asked and I answered.....

micah202 - 8-8-2014 at 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
.............. but lotsa cops, so must be sorta legal.....



...hahaha...that's a good one!

...doesn't mean anything but they got paid to be there,no?:lol:

chuckie - 8-8-2014 at 05:17 PM

Ah, Si...

desertcpl - 8-9-2014 at 08:09 AM

any more details coming out

is the owners removing every one

durrelllrobert - 8-9-2014 at 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Quote:
Originally posted by UnoMas
Don't EVER put anything on leased land in Mexico that does not have a trailer hitch attached to it. :light:


That about sums it up. Don't do it. Or, if you do put ''improvements'' onto leased land, know it now belongs to the owner and you are renting it. Why would any do that?


Well, let's see. My ANNUAL lease for the land my house sets on is $1500 and the owner pays the taxes. Where else could I live in a 4BR, 3Bath home with an ocean view for $125 a month? If I amortize the $94k that I spent for the house over the 10 year period of the land lease that adds another $783 a month for a total of $908/ month for a home that on Pt.Loma with equivalent view would rent for at least $2500/ month. Of course I plan to live in this house much longer then 10 years which reduces the monthly cost much more and my kids can assume the lease and live in the house after I die if they want to.

dtbushpilot - 8-9-2014 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by C205Driver
. . . Thanks David K for posting the various maps; some of us appreciate your time on enhancing our knowledge of Baja. . .


X2 DK, I appreciate your posts especially the maps.

SFandH - 8-9-2014 at 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Well, let's see. My ANNUAL lease for the land my house sets on is $1500 and the owner pays the taxes. Where else could I live in a 4BR, 3Bath home with an ocean view for $125 a month? If I amortize the $94k that I spent for the house over the 10 year period of the land lease that adds another $783 a month for a total of $908/ month for a home that on Pt.Loma with equivalent view would rent for at least $2500/ month.


That's the way I looked at it when I was thinking about buying a house on leased land south of Rosarito. It's like paying a big portion of your rent for 10 years up front to get affordable housing in a fantastic location. When the 10 years are up, que sera sera. Maybe another 10 year lease at an affordable rate, maybe not.

However, I eventually decided to stay with "wheel estate".


[Edited on 8-9-2014 by SFandH]

monoloco - 8-9-2014 at 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Quote:
Originally posted by UnoMas
Don't EVER put anything on leased land in Mexico that does not have a trailer hitch attached to it. :light:


That about sums it up. Don't do it. Or, if you do put ''improvements'' onto leased land, know it now belongs to the owner and you are renting it. Why would any do that?


Well, let's see. My ANNUAL lease for the land my house sets on is $1500 and the owner pays the taxes. Where else could I live in a 4BR, 3Bath home with an ocean view for $125 a month? If I amortize the $94k that I spent for the house over the 10 year period of the land lease that adds another $783 a month for a total of $908/ month for a home that on Pt.Loma with equivalent view would rent for at least $2500/ month. Of course I plan to live in this house much longer then 10 years which reduces the monthly cost much more and my kids can assume the lease and live in the house after I die if they want to.
All good unless your landlord decides to give you the boot when your 10 years is up, which would be well within his rights.

desertcpl - 8-9-2014 at 12:00 PM

just heard that its not all of the home owners

just the ones that had formed a home owners association

the ones in the association ( or some of them)

are heading to Ensenada to meet with their attorneys

and hopefully a Judge to stop this

my friend that has a place there is not involved

Tioloco - 8-9-2014 at 12:13 PM

I hope it works out. Amazing place!

willardguy - 8-9-2014 at 12:28 PM

I didn't meet with kevin but spoke to him on the phone and exchanged emails while negotiating a lease not long after he purchased the whole kit and caboodle (for a mere million dollars I heard), he's a tough businessman and isn't gonna budge. I wish the homeowners the best of luck!

desertcpl - 8-9-2014 at 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
I hope it works out. Amazing place!



its a magical place

Tioloco - 8-9-2014 at 01:08 PM

Any of the original people who started Punta Final still around?

BajaRat - 8-9-2014 at 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by desertcpl
just heard that its not all of the home owners

just the ones that had formed a home owners association

the ones in the association ( or some of them)

are heading to Ensenada to meet with their attorneys

and hopefully a Judge to stop this

my friend that has a place there is not involved


Yep,
Our friends ponied up and stayed clear of the problems that have now come to fruition for the others. Sucks to pay more but they have had the time of their lives there for decades on the cheap.
People have spent quite a bit of cash and anguish fighting ( fell with his burro in the butter) Kevin.
But he that owns the shots calls em

monoloco - 8-9-2014 at 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by desertcpl
just heard that its not all of the home owners

just the ones that had formed a home owners association

the ones in the association ( or some of them)

are heading to Ensenada to meet with their attorneys

and hopefully a Judge to stop this

my friend that has a place there is not involved
It would be interesting to know what legal theory they would use to challenge an expired and nonexistent lease.

chuckie - 8-9-2014 at 04:41 PM

Seems like they can pay or leave? I doubt they can say, I'm not going to pay and am going to stay anyhow..

rts551 - 8-9-2014 at 04:53 PM

The issue is not new..fight started 4-5 years ago.

Cliffy - 8-9-2014 at 05:11 PM

I'm confused.
He has control. The leases are up. What is there to fight?
Seems rather fruitless to me. The horse died a long time ago, about the time the road reached Gonzaga.
Easier access, more value, someone will pay the going rate. If the rent is too high, he won't rent it but he's free to try. it's his ball game.

SFandH - 8-9-2014 at 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
...if you do put ''improvements'' onto leased land, know it now belongs to the owner and you are renting it.

Is that really true? So if I burn a palapa which I have constructed on another's land, I am destroying his property?

I question this.


It's true, at least in the United States. I've always understood the law as any improvements made by a tenant are the property of the land owner.

[Edited on 8-10-2014 by SFandH]

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2014 at 06:28 PM

The punta final website is pretty skimpy on information. I have never been there, but the picture below shows a building that looks like blight. Is that what the gringo vacation homes look like? Looks like zero value in that structure, landlord should charge tenant for demolition. Avert your eyes from that stomach, it is unsettling sight!

bajabuddha - 8-9-2014 at 06:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Is that really true? So if I burn a palapa which I have constructed on another's land, I am destroying his property?

I question this.

RUMOR has it, that's what Ray did to his restaurant at Santispac when the caca hit the fan there. He wasn't going to turn everything over he'd made to land-owners, so the place mysteriously caught fire. Just a RUMOR, mind you.

Tioloco - 8-9-2014 at 06:39 PM

That is one way to do it. Have seen others dismantle their houses and use material elsewhere

BajaRat - 8-9-2014 at 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
...if you do put ''improvements'' onto leased land, know it now belongs to the owner and you are renting it.

Is that really true? So if I burn a palapa which I have constructed on another's land, I am destroying his property?

I question this.


It's true, at least in the United States. I've always understood the law as any improvements made by a tenant are the property of the land owner.

[Edited on 8-10-2014 by SFandH]


When the Sovereign White Mountain Apache tribe decided to increase their lease prices around Hawley Lake Az. many non tribal members tried to put up a fight. This resulted in the tribe deciding to discontinue lease renewals and kicking them off the land. The Lease did state that while it was current the lease holders had all rights of ownership and many cabin owners decided to have their homes moved to new locations rather than allowing the tribe to posses them. There were also suspicious fires and vandalism that destroyed some of them.
I wonder if the Punta Final residents that had their belongings tossed let their lease expire :?:

bajabuddha - 8-9-2014 at 06:52 PM

I think a nutshell-definition is two simple words:

ASPHALT, and PROGRESS.

Tioloco - 8-9-2014 at 06:57 PM

Just stick with not spending more than you can lose.... Not much different than a motorhome. It's a vacation expense, not an investment.

norte - 8-9-2014 at 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
I think a nutshell-definition is two simple words:

ASPHALT, and PROGRESS.

norte - 8-9-2014 at 07:09 PM

No....its Mexico...this problem started well before the asphalt was laid.Vacation in Hotels if you must (and protect yourself)..but investing in a third world country is risky at best.

brewer - 8-9-2014 at 07:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
The punta final website is pretty skimpy on information. I have never been there, but the picture below shows a building that looks like blight. Is that what the gringo vacation homes look like? Looks like zero value in that structure, landlord should charge tenant for demolition. Avert your eyes from that stomach, it is unsettling sight!



How does that big guy get his pants on?

brewer - 8-9-2014 at 07:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
I think a nutshell-definition is two simple words:

ASPHALT, and PROGRESS.


That's three words and I hope that's not true. The asphalt is still eight miles away from Punta Final when the hi way is done. Gonzaga is the last place, really that hasn't been shot from the hip developed. But it is inevitable, hopefully later than sooner.

Tioloco - 8-9-2014 at 07:41 PM

I don't think his pants are all the way on. Talk about 10 pounds of sugar in a five pound sack! Jaja

elgatoloco - 8-10-2014 at 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
Just stick with not spending more than you can lose.... Not much different than a motorhome. It's a vacation expense, not an investment.


Although not for all that philosophy has worked for our family. We have had a beach front vacation house for 54 years thru some sketchy times where the legalities of who owned what where put into question. We used to worry about it being 'taken' away, first by the ocean then by family ownership dispute / development / government. But we always new it was impermanent at best, even when we had a 99 year lease, so the worry has been minimal and the investment the same. 54 years later we are stil enjoying the view and still consider ourselves very lucky to do so. If it all went to hell in a hand basket tomorrow we would have no regrets. Plan for the worst hope for the best and don't sweat the small stuff.
YMMV

Bajaboy - 8-10-2014 at 09:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by norte
No....its Mexico...this problem started well before the asphalt was laid.Vacation in Hotels if you must (and protect yourself)..but investing in a third world country is risky at best.


Mexico is not a third world country. It has the 11th largest economy in the world.

desertcpl - 8-10-2014 at 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
The punta final website is pretty skimpy on information. I have never been there, but the picture below shows a building that looks like blight. Is that what the gringo vacation homes look like? Looks like zero value in that structure, landlord should charge tenant for demolition. Avert your eyes from that stomach, it is unsettling sight!





you have to understand the dynamics of how PT Final started
it started in the 50s,, mostly fly in, they have a small runway
getting into the Bay, was beyond a challenge many yrs ago, to drive in is an under statement
every board, nail etc, was a chore,, some of the places your looking at are old, not all now,, its was started as just a basic fish camp for gringos
lately it has morphed into more of a vacation homes, with a lot of up grades

bajabuddha - 8-10-2014 at 12:45 PM

''lately it has morphed into more of a vacation homes, with a lot of up grades"

Morphed? Now the road's in, you ain't seen nothin' yet. ;)

desertcpl - 8-10-2014 at 12:57 PM

yes understand,,, changing of the old order, no stopping

[Edited on 8-10-2014 by desertcpl]

Fly-over Punta Final video about 20 years ago

Stickers - 8-10-2014 at 03:29 PM

Not much there back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4r4O4CwuuI

rts551 - 8-10-2014 at 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
Good lord that guy is fat..... yikes..... imagine when those pants come off?
:O
All I know is my friend that pays the new rent is still in place.


why would you want to imagine that! sick!

desertcpl - 8-10-2014 at 03:57 PM

really I wouldn't be able to eat for a week

Punta Final

Corky1 - 8-11-2014 at 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stickers
Not much there back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4r4O4CwuuI


Punta final was the half way pit stop for the 1973? NORRA or SCORE 500.

As I remember it was nothing. Just a very wide and hot spot in the race course. No shade, no buildings no nothing except a large amount of pit vehicles and people.

VERY, VERY, VERY HOT !!!!:fire:

To try and keep kool I stripped to my under shorts, sat in the water up to my nose with with a wet rag covering my.

Luckley my bike made it and I got on and rode thru the night to Ensenada.

Fond memories,

Corky:bounce::lol:

David K - 8-11-2014 at 06:58 PM

Great to see you posting Corky!

In June, 1973, The Baja 500 was NORRA (their last Baja race before being booted out). They ran the El Cipres-Los Martires back road east from below San Quintin, avoiding El Rosario, to El Arenoso as the new Baja highway was being built in that stretch then. Chapala north to San Felipe and back to Ensenada. Parnelli Jones was the overall winner, even though he rolled his Bronco three times and did an endo!

brewer - 8-11-2014 at 07:59 PM

So VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, HOT, HOT, HOT.

bajabuddha - 8-12-2014 at 05:59 AM

This is a direct quote from one of the house owners on Final.

"The real story. Rents started going up when Kevin bought punta final 12 years ago, @ 5% a year till the new rates were in line with the rest of the beaches here. 10 or 12 didn't want to pay the increase, so they hired a liar I mean lawyer, payed him over $40,000. He knew all along the law wasn't on his side, but he was a good con man/salesman. Kevin gave them 12 years to get on board or be evicted. But they were sure they were right and he was wrong. So now they are gone. "

Cliffy - 8-12-2014 at 11:25 AM

It is interesting to read the first posting and now this one above to see how the perspective has changed.
If it's true, it's not unreasonable.

bajabuddha - 8-12-2014 at 12:40 PM

I can assure you, it's true; as I said, it's a direct fwd. from one of the tenant/owners on the beach. It is kind of like what the fly said while standing on the mirror: "Well, that's another way of looking at it!".

woody with a view - 8-12-2014 at 01:02 PM

AND, there are three sides to every story. his, theirs and what really happened!

desertcpl - 8-12-2014 at 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
I can assure you, it's true; as I said, it's a direct fwd. from one of the tenant/owners on the beach. It is kind of like what the fly said while standing on the mirror: "Well, that's another way of looking at it!".



It is true as I also heard it from a very reliable source

boots on the ground

[Edited on 8-12-2014 by desertcpl]

rents

akshadow - 8-12-2014 at 03:11 PM

What are the rents now? why has no one said?
Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
This is a direct quote from one of the house owners on Final.

"The real story. Rents started going up when Kevin bought punta final 12 years ago, @ 5% a year till the new rates were in line with the rest of the beaches here. 10 or 12 didn't want to pay the increase, so they hired a liar I mean lawyer, payed him over $40,000. He knew all along the law wasn't on his side, but he was a good con man/salesman. Kevin gave them 12 years to get on board or be evicted. But they were sure they were right and he was wrong. So now they are gone. "

mtgoat666 - 8-12-2014 at 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by desertcpl
Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
I can assure you, it's true;...


It is true...


of course everyone involved believes in their own truth. THERE IS NO TRUTH, only points of view.

micah202 - 8-12-2014 at 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by desertcpl
Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
I can assure you, it's true;...


It is true...


of course everyone involved believes in their own truth. THERE IS NO TRUTH, only points of view.


...truth?.....TRUTH!!??........... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

bajabuddha - 8-12-2014 at 03:55 PM

I have a quote from the American tenant. It isn't from the owner/lessor HIMSELF, so for gawd's sake, don't believe me. I'll just keep 'em to myself.
:rolleyes:

Just got an email from folks I know at Gonzaga too; said it's been going on for years down at Punta Final, no big thang. And, the rents at Gonzaga are a whole lot more, too. She told me the rates there, but i'm keeping that to myself also.

Anyone interested can find out for themselves. :smug:

mtgoat666 - 8-12-2014 at 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha
I have a quote from the American tenant. It isn't from the owner/lessor HIMSELF, so for gawd's sake, don't believe me.


did not say did not believe you. just said in so many words thate there are multiple truths in contract disputes, and the truths are often contradictory.

many strive for truthiness, and many never achieve it!

:lol:
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