BajaNomad - campaign against the Seris

campaign against the Seris

güéribo - 12-27-2014 at 03:46 PM

photo from the book "Unknown Island: Seri Indians, Europeans, and San Esteban Island in the Gulf of California" by Thomas Bowen.

güéribo - 12-27-2014 at 03:48 PM

Barry A. - 12-27-2014 at 05:22 PM

I love their Ironwood carvings---------I have a bunch that I bought in the '60's in Mexicali-------outstanding workmanship and artistry!!!

Lots of "knock-offs" now, so you have to be really careful what you buy.

Barry

willardguy - 12-27-2014 at 05:35 PM

you can just tell those Seri women were trouble makers! :no:

Barry A. - 12-27-2014 at 05:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

you can just tell those Seri women were trouble makers! :no:

Those were the only one's they could catch-----the Seri were a real pain to the local Mexicanos, and something HAD to be done!!! You should look up the history--------it's fascinating!! rivals the Apache and the Yaqui, as I recall.

Barry

Pescador - 12-28-2014 at 07:45 AM

There was a book published by the University of Arizona and they studied the Seri very closely in the 40's. They witnessed three men who went out and played a deer in the desert with nothing but knives. Seems they found a deer out in the desert and then one would pop up out of hiding and as soon as the deer started to move that one would go back into hiding while another showed himself. This went on for up to 3 or 4 hours until the deer was so confused that one of the indians slid up behind him and cut the throat.
They were a very formidable part of Pancho Villa's force during the revolution.

desertcpl - 12-28-2014 at 08:56 AM

very interesting,, any names of the books about their history

Pompano - 12-28-2014 at 09:04 AM

Bad times for the Seri. Reminds one of Wounded Knee. Lots of skeletons in the closet.

DianaT - 12-28-2014 at 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by desertcpl

very interesting,, any names of the books about their history

Many years ago when I returned to college, I took an anthropology class from Dr. Bowen and this was his area of expertise --- his research covered years and years of study.

Unknown Island: Seri Indians, Europeans, and San Esteban Island in the Gulf of California (University of Arizona Southwest Center series)

http://www.amazon.com/Unknown-Island-Europeans-California-Un...

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

you can just tell those Seri women were trouble makers! :no:

Don't you think there were very good reasons these peoples were "a real pain"?

desertcpl - 12-28-2014 at 10:41 AM

thank you DianaT,, I think I will buy the book

Barry A. - 12-28-2014 at 11:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DianaT

Quote: Originally posted by desertcpl

very interesting,, any names of the books about their history

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

you can just tell those Seri women were trouble makers! :no:

Don't you think there were very good reasons these peoples were "a real pain"?

ABSOLUTELY, Diana, but there are also "very good reasons" why the Mexicano's and the Govt. reacted to them the way they did. As usual, it's the escalation of atrocities and illegal acts on both sides that result in violent behavior---------a given. It's a man-kind thing!!

I am just always amazed that some feel compelled to point out the obvious, and then get all upset about it, and cry for reparations which just prolongs the bad feelings all around, and perpetuates the prejudices. Stuff happens, and it is best to get on with life and let the past remain in the "past" as history, and learn from it, I believe.

Barry

güéribo - 12-29-2014 at 09:55 AM

Hello, Diana T. These photos do indeed come from the Thomas Bowen book, "Unknown Island." A great read.

DianaT - 12-29-2014 at 08:48 PM

[rquote=955391&tid=76979&author=]Hello, Diana T. These photos do indeed come from the Thomas Bowen book, "Unknown Island." A great read.[/rquote]

If I had looked at the original post well I would have seen the credit to Thomas Bowen. I guess I was just too interested in the photos. :saint:

Dr. Bowen was a good teacher even while his heart was with his research and the Seri people. He had a realistic view of anthropology and is the one who recommended that we read "Motel of the Mysteries" which I still enjoy.

Barry, I just can't agree with stuff happens and move on. I see it in a totally different light.

[Edited on 12-31-2014 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 12-29-2014 at 08:56 PM

Yayyyy---------Diana's post worked!!!!

I know Diana that you see some things quite differently then I do---------this is THE MAIN PROBLEM between conservatives and progressives, I believe----------we just key into different perspectives and mind sets----------- I don't pretend to know which is best, but I do know that much of what progressives say just does not compute with me.

Makes life very interesting. :yes:

Barry

hombre66 - 12-30-2014 at 08:41 PM

Don't get the assumption that "something had to be done" Maybe Barry A can educate me.

Barry A. - 12-30-2014 at 09:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by hombre66

Don't get the assumption that "something had to be done" Maybe Barry A can educate me.

It's been a long time since I studied the Seri, but as I recall the Seri were stealing the Mexican rancho stock, etc. and the Rancheros complained bitterly to the Authorities to "do something". As I said before, it was a similar situation with the Yaqui and the Apache--------all were aggressively moved against by the Mexican Authorities, but all three had geographical localities that they retreated to which were extremely difficult to penetrate effectively. Thus, large scale maneuvers were conducted against all 3 ethnic groups with the hopes of devastating them into submission, with some success. The Seri, being by far the smallest and most concentrated of the ethnic groups, were hurt the worse by these campaigns, and almost wiped out.

This is from my memory, but it has been 57 years since I studied these matters in College, so I may have some of it wrong or mixed up here. :spingrin:

Barry

Pescador - 12-31-2014 at 08:24 AM

During the periods of Revolution in Mexico the Seri went from being the big heroes because they would sign up and go into the desert to fight as long as they got paid to the aggressors because they would raid the rancheros and big settlements. But that was not too far different from what the people like Villa and others were doing. It all seemed to be tied in to who was in power. If you wanted to overthrow the big landowners and politically powerful people what better way to do it than by revolution. However, as with all revolutions (except the American Revolution) no ones life was really made any better or improved, there was basically just a change of power.

This is all complicated by the cultural issue where the level of achievement was pretty much dictated by your color of skin and heritage. The Spanish were pretty much the ruling class, followed by the Mestizos, and the bottom rung was brought up by the indian culture. Following the revolution where they started building schools and trying to educate the population, the indian areas were pretty much ignored.

In the late 60's and early 70's I got to spend quite a bit of time with the Seri especially in the area of Desemboque and Libertad. Very few could speak spanish and they were not educated in a school sense, but were very wise in the ways of the ocean and desert. They had always used broken bottles and shark skin to fishing the ironwood carvings but I brought large packages of sandpaper which they thought was a marvelous invention and most of my ironwood collection was traded for sandpaper.

hombre66 - 12-31-2014 at 09:54 AM

Thank you Barry A and Pescador. Thanks especially to Pescador , for sharing the personal experience. Good stuff.

Barry A. - 12-31-2014 at 10:32 AM

Excellent and interesting input, Pescador.

Many thanks.

Barry