BajaNomad - San Felipe beaches closed due to Marine life die off?

San Felipe beaches closed due to Marine life die off?

rts551 - 1-15-2015 at 09:13 AM

http://www.lacronica.com/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Noticias/15012...

Any first hand accounts?

StuckSucks - 1-15-2015 at 12:23 PM

The Navy through the Naval Sector of San Felipe and the Attorney General for Environmental Protection in Baja California, in coordination with the Municipal Delegation, issued the following statement in order to inform the public on precautionary measures due to event waterfowl mortality that has occurred within an area that starts from the south jetty to the fractionation La Hacienda.

Therefore, units of the Mexican Navy, PROFEPA, SENASICA, CONAPESCA, ISESALUD, Research Institute for Veterinary Science and Municipal Delegation of San Felipe, coordinated actions performed to determine the probable causes of this mortality.

In a meeting held on January 13, 2015, the worktable on the recommendation of the Institute of Public Health Services, decided to issue a precautionary closure at the Maritime Terrestrial Zone, which covers an area of about 10 kilometers, in order to prevent some risk to the health of the population. Additional information about the actions that have been made so far.

Therefore, the population is requested in general, not be introduced in this beach area, and if it detects dead animals on the beach not touch them and give notice to the Municipal Delegation for collection.

Tour of inspection and surveillance (customer event)

- Collection of dead birds on the beach and willingness mentioned in septic tank in the municipal landfill of the Delegation.

- Sampling on dead animals for their analysis.

- Sampling of seawater.

- The results will be waiting to determine the actions coming.

alert

- Land Area Maritime precautionary closure covers an area of 10 kilometers.

David K - 1-15-2015 at 01:11 PM

So it is a request to stay away from the dead sea life or beaches with lot's of dead sea life. Shouldn't be a huge issue now, water is too freaking cold for swimming anyway!

rts551 - 1-15-2015 at 03:12 PM

Well so much for first hand accounts. I should have figured. I believe they are concerned about what is toxic enough to cause the massive kill off of so many different birds.

racingron - 1-15-2015 at 03:27 PM

We drove the beach from the marina to Percebu after New Years and saw more dead marine life than I've seen in many other trips. Enough it was a topic of discussion on our radios for awhile.

Ron

David K - 1-15-2015 at 03:45 PM

In May, 2013 there were more dead porpoise on the beach than I had seen before... I wrote about it in my trip report, but I think there were 6 on the 4 mile long island/ beach... Dead whales and porpoise have washed up on the beach many times over the 35+ years I have camped on Shell Island, just not more than 1 or 2 usually.

rts551 - 1-15-2015 at 04:09 PM

According to a Mexican forum, there is speculation that there was a mining chemical spill and associated cover-up. Apparently there are much more than just birds dieing to include some land animals as well.

Wondering if any SF locals could confirm this.

bajabuddha - 1-15-2015 at 04:28 PM

Wonder if it has to do with C. Slim's gold mine to the north of town? If it does, good luck on getting it cleaned up any time soon. Also, I hope whatever it is doesn't have too much impact on local seafood harvesting for the S.F. restaurants; ain't like they're flying in 'today's catch'. Bad Ju-Ju for sure.

blackwolfmt - 1-15-2015 at 04:29 PM

Terrible sht and it happens all over the planet, this was a yr 2000 post

Minera San Felipe

While the method to extract gold in mines based on the use of cyanide has been banned in many countries, Minera San Felipe, the mine north of town, uses this dangerous substance to separate gold from low grade ore and then treat the waste using a process that can potentially pollute groundwater and the sea of Cortez. Given the far from stellar track record of the gold cyanidation process around the world, it would seem there is no 'if' in the prognostication of its effects but rather just a matter of 'when'.

What is the reason cyanidation is being used at the San Felipe Mine, rather than an environmentally safe, more efficient and cost equivalent process like the Haber Gold Process? Likely the cost of retooling for a different method of gold extraction was weighed against the initial loss of profit and/or Federal fines in the event of a spill. The risk of laying the local shrimp and fishing industry on a slab with scuppers is apparently a small price to pay in exchange for the extra paychecks that leach through the town's green grocers and beer stores.

woody with a view - 1-15-2015 at 04:39 PM

well, the water on the Pac side is +/- 6-8 degrees WARMER than it has ever been this time of year. could it be a massive red tide in the making in the Cortez?

rts551 - 1-15-2015 at 05:08 PM

That came up Woody. Apparently this is a much deeper color red. Also birds, dolphins, seals, are all affected...I don't believe the red tide usually causes this kind of die off.

Tomas Tierra - 1-15-2015 at 09:22 PM

Woody.....
6-8 degrees warmer than ever before? C'mon main..
By ever you mean, in your lifetime? +\- 50 years
Or since records have been kept ? +\- 150 years

Both amounts of time equivelant to a pinch of sand from a dump truck.. :light:

David K - 1-15-2015 at 10:25 PM

The gold mine is far, far from the gulf... many miles of desert and salt flats separate the two.

There are satellite sea water temperature maps... and winter is notoriously cold in the upper gulf... colder than the Pacific.

bajabuddha - 1-15-2015 at 11:10 PM

The 'red tide' of SOC is roe from half-beaks and needlefish. True 'red-tide' algae needs 80+ temps, and in January just not possible. The cause will come out eventually, Mexico's Gov't willing or not. Somebody (MAN) is doing sumpin' somewhere that just ain't kosher.

akshadow - 1-15-2015 at 11:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

The 'red tide' of SOC is roe from half-beaks and needlefish. True 'red-tide' algae needs 80+ temps, and in January just not possible. The cause will come out eventually, Mexico's Gov't willing or not. Somebody (MAN) is doing sumpin' somewhere that just ain't kosher.

80 degree temps cannot be required to create an algae bloom. They are created in waters around Alaska. I can guarantee these waters do not reach 80 degrees.

http://seagrant.uaf.edu/nosb/papers/2001/Skyview-redtide.htm...

bajabuddha - 1-16-2015 at 01:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by akshadow

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

AKShadow, wonderful article, great rebuttal. Point is, has any been reported in the area? This isn't a system that kills and then shows up later. My point is, word is out in the global community and hopefully we'll find out exactly what it is. I've seen the 'blooms' of roe and their similar luminescent displays, and folks calling it 'red tide', especially this time of year. I'm most concerned in the number of habitat, homo sapiens as well as all marine life, who rely on that fishery in close proximity to the die-off. Time will tell, and hopefully the shorter the better.

PaulW - 1-19-2015 at 09:00 AM

Two reports that do not agree
1 13 report sanfelipe com mx category news
Dead birds on the beaches an ominous sign of gill net fishing
by Tony January 13 2015 11 am
I have had a number of emails from people wondering about the number of dead sea birds washing up on the beaches around San Felipe. This has been a problem in previous years and it is becoming a big problem again. Most of the deaths are caused by the birds diving to steal the fish caught in the gill nets that are used by fishermen in the northern Gulf. The birds get caught in the nets and drown. They are discarded by the fishermen and the bodies wash up on the shore driven by the prevailing easterly winds.
The birds, many of which will be the blue-footed Boobies, are not endangered but the major kills are a very bad sign for San Felipe. Gill net fishing has been prohibited for some time but it is still widely used and is causing havoc with other species.
Gill nets are being used to illegally catch the giant Totoaba or totuava sometimes euphemistically referred to as white sea bass in restaurants whose swim bladder may be worth 10,000 dollars on the Chinese market. Other fish trapped in the nets are almost considered bycatch. Penalties for catching totoaba are very severe because of their endangered status and the result is that reporting the inadvertent catch of such a fish is not possible.
It is believed that many gill nets are now being used in the prohibited zone set aside to protect the critically endangered Vaquita porpoise. Less than 25 breeding females of this species are thought to exist and the northern Gulf of California is their only known habitat.

Post from something called PBBB 1 19 no link found
Port in Northwest Mexico Closed Because of Red Tide

MEXICO CITY The port in San Felipe a town in the northwestern Mexican state of Baja California, has been closed to fishing due to the deaths of numerous animals from red tide the Profepa environmental protection agency said.

More than 550 birds and four sea lions have died in recent days in the waters around the port from red tide, lab tests conducted by Baja California health officials found.

The red tide outbreak may have been caused by pollution, high temperatures, a drop in salinity and low tide action, the Profepa said in a statement.

Fishing, the sale of fish products and consumption of seafood from the area around the port of San Felipe have been temporarily prohibited, Baja California health officials said.

Three dolphins died in the waters around the town and tests were conducted on tissue samples taken from birds and mollusks, the Profepa said.

The tissue and organ samples tested positive for the neurotoxin produced by the algae that cause red tide, officials said

[Edited on 1-19-2015 by PaulW]

woody with a view - 1-19-2015 at 08:00 PM

like I said, red tide! all you'se conspiracy theorists!

motoged - 1-20-2015 at 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

like I said, red tide! all you'se conspiracy theorists!

They are out to get ya, Woody :biggrin:

willardguy - 1-20-2015 at 12:09 PM

WOLVERINES! oh wait, that was Red Dawn, nevermind........

The culprit

bajaguy - 1-20-2015 at 12:12 PM

From ensenada.net

Saxitoxin, the cause of the closure by red tide
It is unusual in Gulf of California

Article posted January 19, 2015
by Elizabeth Vargas

In the coming days is expected that the ban imposed by ISESALUD by the Federal Commission against Health Risks bivalve molluscs of the Gulf of California, following the detection of a red tide on January 16 nancy.

The Secretary of Fishing in Baja California Matias Arjona said the ban by the red tide is exclusive to bivalve molluscs, which in this area includes geoduck clam and chocolata exclusively.

In this case the red tide dinoflagellate is derived from a microorganism which produces saxitoxin, which is a toxin that had rarely been observed in the Gulf of California.

He said the ban determining concentrations were detected on 16 January 2000 to 700 micrograms per kilogram when the normal concentration is 800.

Three days after the January 19 sampling showed a significant decrease in 1000 100 micrograms to meet this Monday at 1600 micrograms.

When it normal that are 800 micrograms be the same health authorities who determine the lifting of the ban in the area.

He stressed that there are no more bivalve molluscs of commercial interest in the Gulf of California, as in the Pacific region where production is important and involves many species.

willardguy - 1-20-2015 at 12:27 PM

:?:

I thought the sea of cortez was famous for its red tides, hence the "vermillion sea"?

brewer - 1-21-2015 at 10:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

I thought the sea of cortez was famous for its red tides, hence the "vermillion sea"?

Hey, where'd your Gecko go?

willardguy - 1-21-2015 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by brewer

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

I thought the sea of cortez was famous for its red tides, hence the "vermillion sea"?

Hey, where'd your Gecko go?

Rango retired and is now living in seclusion in the little town of "dirt"

BajaRat - 1-21-2015 at 05:02 PM

Does anyone know the range in the SOC of the current bloom

PaulW - 1-22-2015 at 07:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat

Does anyone know the range in the SOC of the current bloom

====
Was north of Puertecitos
Now apparently gone.
Fishermen are back to pre bloom fishing.
Read http://katskorner.com.mx/san_felipe/
PW

rts551 - 1-22-2015 at 08:21 AM

wow that was quick. don't most red tide blooms move on rather than dissipate that quickly?

bajabuddha - 1-22-2015 at 09:34 AM

The "Vermillion Sea" analogy was due to the mass abundance of Krill in the waters which are now yet another casualty of overfishing by man. Many reports of 'carpets of red' were attributed to Krill. Also, the late-winter early-spring halfbeak and needlefish roe has the same color, and is bio-luminescent.

If this was a true 'Red Tide' event, I hope there are follow-up studies to confirm. It's unusual, but not impossible.

Sweetwater - 1-22-2015 at 01:09 PM

Some unintended consequences.......

:saint:

Bitten by the cut'n'paste bug again.....

PaulW - 1-22-2015 at 01:11 PM

Update provided by Kat
Ive posted this on Kats Korner but to get it around, please share
Here's the latest scoop from the Secretary of Heath in Baja
Good afternoon, this is a statement that we received from the Government of the State of Baja California, where we explained the reasons why the decision of close all the fishing and the sea for two days also the general fishing in San Felipe in precautionary signal was taken to analyze the sea and its products, and see if there was any risk in the eating of local products or swim in these waters, which allow through this result in our favor, please spread it and pass it with your contacts and social networks so this helps to reverse the negative propaganda that occurred in previous days refereal to Red Tide and also to alleged pollution of the mine, and that according to results of the analysis reveals that no such pollution and just need to await the results of the analysis to clam species grown in the region to give a general opinion. Meanwhile please dont eat or market any type of clam till we have the professional analysis done. Thank you very much."

Marc - 1-22-2015 at 06:48 PM

Maybe all that chemical stuff just sank to the bottom. You know...heavy metal.

PaulW - 1-28-2015 at 08:48 AM

More info
Mass Death of Seabirds in Western U.S. Is 'Unprecedented'
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/01/150123-seabi...
= = =
On the Facebook page for the San Felipe South Campos, a lady posted the following. She rode the beach for 15 km and this is her report. "My findings are; 3 whales, 1 seal, 34 dolphins and 293 birds." Such a tragedy that we are witnessing with the Sea of Cortez and the dead sea life. I wonder if we can get any opinions other than the rumors that are flying about the mine and the red tide. Anyone out there know what is happening, for real?

bajaric - 4-24-2015 at 09:51 AM

Could the red tide be explained by the introduction of nitrogen fertilizer from the recent release of water into the Colorado River Delta?
Perhaps when releasing water into the river it should be done a little at a time rather than in a massive flood. This would allow for nature's filtration system (reeds, sunlight, oxygen, algae) to attenuate the slug of pollutants that has accumulated in the dry river bed before it is all washed in to the sea.

I prefer smelt to almonds --

David K - 4-24-2015 at 11:17 AM

Has the Colorado really been flowing into the gulf the past year, with the so called drought making reservoir levels dangerously low?

Was fresh water released last year and that is what caused the water shortage?

Wasn't flushing water into the gulf supposed to be a good thing for marine biology and the complaint has been the fish and mammals have suffered because of the lack of water flowing in the Colorado?

sancho - 4-24-2015 at 12:08 PM

So called drought? You don't give up do you. Although according
to one here, the Ca. drought isn't bad in no. San Diego County,
must be the only place in Ca. is isn't. Quit embarrasing yourself,
do a little reading

[Edited on 4-24-2015 by sancho]

bajaric - 4-24-2015 at 12:37 PM

water was released to the Colorado River Delta in a "pulse" one year ago, in Mar 2014

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140322-color...

not sure if any of it reached the gulf or if have been any releases since then. Sometimes it is not so simple to reverse 100 years of environmental degradation of a water system, there can be unintended consequences years later. As far as the drought, it has not affected me at all, I can still use all the water I want. the real drought is in the river systems that used to support fish nurseries.

rts551 - 4-24-2015 at 01:02 PM

You mean man has been pumping nitrates into the river basin through irrigation? no...tell me its not so... don't they just naturally occur?

David K - 4-24-2015 at 01:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

So called drought? You don't give up do you. Although according
to one here, the Ca. drought isn't bad in no. San Diego County,
must be the only place in Ca. is isn't. Quit embarrasing yourself,
do a little reading

[Edited on 4-24-2015 by sancho]

The amount of rainfall is not that different and not the lowest from the recent past, but because water is released from reservoirs (built so people could have water when it doesn't rain) to benefit some fish, at the expense of farmers needs to grow food, and the rest of us to live, makes it a "so-called drought". The word 'embarrassing' has two s's fyi.

http://www.laalmanac.com/weather/we13.htm
115 years ago, we had less rainfall than in 2012, and the year before we had 5 inches over the average of the past 135 years. Remember all the bridges south of Ensenada being washed out in 2010???

People have short memories, and then there are people who have a political agenda to bury the historic facts of rainfall in Southern California, in order to get funding or power from the citizens.

chuckie - 4-24-2015 at 01:29 PM

Two "s's" and you are both of them.....

rts551 - 4-24-2015 at 01:36 PM

Without your hated funding, there would be no dams, and probably no SoCAl as you know and enjoy it.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

David K - 4-24-2015 at 02:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Without your hated funding, there would be no dams, and probably no SoCAl as you know and enjoy it.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

Funding for HUMAN needs with human made money is logical. Here is a history page on the arid west and irrigation projects (dams): http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/ReclamationDamsIrrigationProjec...

It isn't all an 'evil white-European' idea, either:
Lack of rainfall always has been a defining problem in the American West. Long before Europeans arrived, predecessors to the Hohokam people migrated from central Mexico to southern Arizona, bringing domesticated crops and their knowledge of irrigation with them. The Hohokam created an extensive canal system and irrigated thousands of acres along the Salt River. Their descendants, Akimel and Tohono O’od, constructed networks of diversion dikes to capture runoff rainwater to cultivate their fields. When the Spanish arrived in the 17th and 18th centuries, mission priests enhanced Native American efforts by expanding and building new rock dams and small, earthen reservoirs.

mtgoat666 - 4-24-2015 at 02:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Funding for HUMAN needs with human made money is logical.

not sure i understand your point. would funding of HUMAN needs with monkey made money be illogical?

rts551 - 4-24-2015 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Without your hated funding, there would be no dams, and probably no SoCAl as you know and enjoy it.

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

You equate the use of canals by the Hohokam (and others) to our extensive use of dams and water usage? interesting.

here is a tidbit for you.

http://www.water.ca.gov/waterconditions/

David K - 4-24-2015 at 04:00 PM

Equate? No... stop guessing at what I do, it is in black and white, all other exaggerations are your creation.

bajabuddha - 4-24-2015 at 04:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Equate? No... stop guessing at what I do, it is in black and white, all other exaggerations are your creation.

Yup, just like that doppelganger that's marauding around Baja with your face and your voice and gift for gab that's creating such a bad name for you!

2 lbs in a one lb. bag. :yawn:

rts551 - 4-24-2015 at 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Equate? No... stop guessing at what I do, it is in black and white, all other exaggerations are your creation.

lets see. you were talking about the so called drought. I was talking about dams...you brought up Hohokums, I thought it was an odd follow-up, you ? yup doppelganger all right.

vgabndo - 4-24-2015 at 04:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Equate? No... stop guessing at what I do, it is in black and white, all other exaggerations are your creation.

In my experience, an unacceptable proportion of your "facts" are your own creation. Which qualifies this particular offering as the source of my "chuckle of the day". Thanks. I mean, this is an admission that you exaggerate...right? Which 'other' exaggerations have you put in black and white?

bajabuddha - 4-24-2015 at 04:56 PM

Seriously, ''black and white" in DK's world IS reality. There is no gray. There is no room for discussion. He's right, and all who agree are in "The Dark Realm" of his dis-reality. there's no 'in-box', and if he says the sun rises in the west, IT IS SO. End of discussion.

It's what therapists call "Job Security".

BTW, the Hohokam, Hisatsinom (Ancestral Puebloans) and a host of other prehistoric races have contributed to their own demise/relocation; the defecation of their own nests, i.e. over-burdening their micro-enviornments by over-populating, over-deforesting, and over-using their WATER first, and everything else as well.

Scholars like DK wouldn't know dendrochronology from dentistry. I'm wiling to wager every single person responsible for putting the Hubble Space Telescope into orbit, and repairing it, and studying it for the last 25 years would like 5 minutes alone with DK in a locked room; just to observe (and of course)..... listen. Boy Howdy would they all be impressed.

rts551 - 4-24-2015 at 06:00 PM

You beat me to it. I was going to say, its about time for David to play the poor me coin. "I am only here to provide facts and help". Why is everybody picking on me. Facts are provided all the time David doppelganger. You just turn around and call it leftist propaganda without even looking at it. Far right radio means more to you.

wessongroup - 4-24-2015 at 07:05 PM

Oops ... thought I was in the "megadrought" thread ... :lol:

[Edited on 4-25-2015 by wessongroup]

bajadogs - 4-24-2015 at 08:55 PM

"Funding for HUMAN needs with human made money is logical." - DavidK

um.. like healthcare?

You are quite the specimen DavidK.

bajadogs - 4-24-2015 at 09:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

You know, I just asked where did the fertilizer come from that is being blamed for killing fish/mammals... there are no farms in Baja along the gulf coast, and I don't think there are on Sonora's coast either (it is still a desert over there, yes?). So, that leaves the Colorado going through the rich agricultural region that feeds so many people, thanks to dams and canals.

So many here kill fish for fun and food, but if they die from those things that feed millions, it is bad? Do we know for sure it is fertilizer that causes death in the ocean?

I am just asking the questions and not dropping my thinking ability because some liberal media source says it's that way. Shame on those of you who don't question the information (when it always blames capitalism, or the United States).

I would love to be corrected if I am factually in error. All I get back is rudeness and name calling when it doesn't follow leftist dogma. How about black and white facts, not far off projections. I provided 135 years of rainfall data that proves we are in no greater a drought than other years.

Stop the drama, share the facts! :light:

OMG,

Where is this liberal media source you keep talking about? And why in the F are you not OFF-TOPIC? Is that "rude" or "leftist dogma" or "Name calling"? Stop playing the victim DavidK. It IS embarrassing!

bajadogs - 4-24-2015 at 10:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

So many here kill fish for fun and food, but if they die from those things that feed millions, it is bad? Do we know for sure it is fertilizer that causes death in the ocean?

I am just asking the questions and not dropping my thinking ability because some liberal media source says it's that way

Stop the drama, share the facts! :light:

Mr. K, YOU are the one who needs to stop the drama and realize the facts!

David K - 4-24-2015 at 11:35 PM

Maybe if you guys didn't keep tripping over yourselves to contend my asking a simple question... Still waiting for the answer, by-the-way!

:biggrin:

bajabuddha - 4-25-2015 at 05:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Maybe if you guys didn't keep tripping over yourselves to contend my asking a simple question... Still waiting for the answer, by-the-way!

The only 'tripping' going on around here is from what you put in your morning Ovaltine.

Some ask questions wanting pertinent answers and are willing for exchanges of ideas and learning; others ask questions merely to set up their already prepared answers to propagate their own agendas and further their own unchangeable beliefs. The answer is already moot point even before it's given. 99% of your questions are merely rhetorical to begin with, so you can answer them yourself with a means to step up on your box, and hear yourself orate. You damned sure don't hear anyone else.

However; I believe your question is: "So many here kill fish for fun and food, but if they die from those things that feed millions, it is bad? Do we know for sure it is fertilizer that causes death in the ocean? "

Or was it the one about "Why's everybody always pickin' on me??" ...... believing it was the former, here goes:

And you go on to state about 'no farming in Sonora, etc., but look first to the grand amount in just the Mexicali / Yuma greater basin area. Over one million people live there, as well as huge industrial farming, and that water run-off doesn't go to Des Moines.

Start with "The New River".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_(Mexico%E2%80%93United_States)

Granted, it doesn't flow into the SOC (directly). It was created by the screw-up of the Alamo Canal in 1904 that created the present Salton Sea, and since that time has become one of the most polluted rivers in the world. It's small, but its' bite is huge. Border patrol are ordered to stay out of the water at all costs, regardless of necessity. Point is, that's just a small area of a very large farming conglomerate, and most groundwater and surface runoff goes south. If, as stated before that caused your usual rant, there's a big rain or Governmental 'flush' all the effluence is washed into the SOC.

You'd asked bout Sonora; I took a 10 minute Google Earth flight over the northern/eastern seaboard of the SOC, and saw several agricultural areas, especially around and west of Hermosillo down to Los Mochis. So yes, there are farming endeavors. The products and amounts are not as governed as in the U.S. (maybe for the good) but the chemicals are still there.

One must also consider the amount of commercial fishing factories and cooperativos, plants, and aquatic farming along the northeast shores as well; there are a bunch. Where does their effluent go? Not just fish guts, but processing byproducts and chemicals too?

Dams vs. pre-dams. Used-to-was, a big river flush (flood) brought all the nutrient-rich gold to the upper SOC and renewed its' life and luster. Now whatever flushes in is quite the opposite; heavy salt and chemical laden poisons and gunk and funk of upstream human habitation.

Also, airborne pollutants are ever present. Every time I drive by Mexicali on my way down Baja I see a disgusting soup of what can only be described as a 'Zombie Parfait' and it has to go somewhere, too.... doesn't just dissipate into thin air; it's particaulate matter that will fall to earth somewhere. Then think of the western Baja agricultural areas, and the strong prevailing west winds that carry laden dust .... where? EAST.

So there you have it. I hope you don't trip over your upper lip long enough to read it all... but i'm certain t'was a waste of my time. These are only postulates... "what-ifs"... that may have bearing on the topic at hand, and your such important 'simple question' that you already know the answers to, already formulating your big comeback. To some, growing older is to find out what we really don't know; we knew it all when young. Black and white was such a looooong time ago.

bajaric - 4-25-2015 at 08:00 AM

Aw, come on folks, isn't this discussion getting a little heated?
heated, ha ha, get it?

I have no issue with people expressing their opinions, and I for one appreciate all views. So, it was reported that there was a mass die off, it is natural to wonder if some cause can be identified. I simply put forth the possible explanation of ag runoff causing a plankton bloom, although on further review that seems unlikely. Ditto with Slim's gold mine. That leaves natural causes, or perhaps maybe the temperature of the sea is increasing a tiny little bit? I am as skeptical about man made global warming as anyone; the last major climate episode on the planet was an ice age when half of north America was covered under glaciers and it has been warming up pretty steady since then without any help from humans. Still, it does seem like the ocean temps have been warmer than usual in recent years.
On a more general note, I am all for prosperity and running water. I grew up in Fresno, for crying out loud, the poster child for water reclamation, and now I live in San Diego, a nice place to live. It would not be possible to live here without dams. With that said, I have to question the wisdom of capturing the every last drop of water from rivers that drain a quarter of a continent, and leaving the wetlands to wither and die so we can all take long showers and flush toilets and dump the wasted water in the ocean via deep water sewage outfalls. Anyone bother to go fishing in the Southern California bight anymore? I sure don't. I go fishing in Mexico where the water is clean. And if someone dares to suggest that we cut back on our extravagant water use a little so some little fish can be saved from extinction they are branded whackos by the right wing.
In regards to the drought, rainfall totals in Los Angeles have little bearing on the situation, look at the snow pack in Wyoming or Northern California.

How many more posts before I am not a newbie any more. its so degrading.

Ateo - 4-25-2015 at 08:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

How many more posts before I am not a newbie any more. its so degrading.

5 more posts I think.

rts551 - 4-25-2015 at 08:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric

How many more posts before I am not a newbie any more. its so degrading.

5 more posts I think.

The guy that sits in a bar in Baja Sur and says he owns this forum (or so its been posted before) averages 9.48 posts per day. take a few lessons from him and you will exit the newbie status in no time. Now degrading...thats a different story.