BajaNomad - Megadrought Predictions

I thought I saw a post a couple of months ago where DK said the drought was over?

It's still early today....."someone" will surely discredit scientific research based on their "personal and anecdotal evidence".

vgabndo - 2-14-2015 at 11:15 AM

It rained so hard in Northern California last week that in 5 days the level of Shasta Lake rose 12 vertical feet. Virtually nothing added to the minimal snow pack. The Ski area is still closed again this year. I think that is why they call it climate CHANGE. My friend in New Hampshire hasn't seen a day above freezing in a month. And so it goes....

monoloco - 2-14-2015 at 11:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dtbushpilot

What a total crock of BS. 80% chance of something happening in 35 years and lasting 49 years????? Why 49? why not 50 or 51?.....This gloom and doom report is brought to you by the same folks who can't accurately predict the weather next week....enjoy..

"Making predictions is hard, especially about the future" :lol:

No problem with this pic Doubters

blackwolfmt - 2-14-2015 at 11:44 AM

A bleached "bathtub ring," the result of a six-year drought that has dramatically dropped the level of the reservoir, shows on red Navajo sandstone formations near Last Chance Bay at Lake Powell near Page, Ariz. Lake Powell and the next biggest Colorado River reservoir, the nearly 100-year-old Lake Mead, are at the lowest levels ever recorded.

070405_southwest_drought_hmed_12p.grid-6x2.jpg - 28kB

070405_southwest_drought_hmed_12p.grid-6x2.jpg - 28kB

yakyak2010 - 2-14-2015 at 12:02 PM

It seems to me we're spending a lot of time and money on a glass half empty. If there is a weather change in the future are there no benefits or just the apocalypse. Why are there no up sides to the seeming(to some people)problem?

4x4abc - 2-14-2015 at 12:06 PM

get a grip guys - the last 500 years have been unusually wet. We'll learn how to live with it. http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

blackwolfmt - 2-14-2015 at 12:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

get a grip guys - the last 500 years have been unusually wet. We'll learn how to live with it.

And from the looks of average lake and river levels it's about to change :wow:

AKgringo - 2-14-2015 at 12:19 PM

I remember that in the 70's, there was a theory put forth that we were already entering another 'Ice Age'. It was replaced with the evidence of rising temperatures pointing to global warming!
If I remember the details correctly about the Ice Age theory, it would start by melting ice packs changing the track of the Gulf stream in the Atlantic, and the Humboldt Current in the Pacific. That would then lead to earlier freeze up, and later thawing, longer winters and the ice moving south.
I can hardly wait to turn 110 and see who got it right.

I am a believer in climate change, that is what it does!

[Edited on 2-14-2015 by AKgringo]

MMc - 2-14-2015 at 12:29 PM

Most of Baja and Alta Ca have been settled in the last 500 years. We will continue to look past history and do what ever we want anyway. Never in the history of man have humans been able to sustain a large society, long term in a desert.

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

get a grip guys - the last 500 years have been unusually wet. We'll learn how to live with it. http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

Barry A. - 2-14-2015 at 12:39 PM

In investing circles, it has long (50 years plus) been predicted that WATER WARS will replace OIL WARS in the future.

Conclusion: Invest in all things "water" related.

Sounds reasonable to me. :biggrin:

Barry

blackwolfmt - 2-14-2015 at 12:41 PM

That's what gets me!! Nasa wants to land peeps on mars when they should be finding an affordable way to desalinate sea water and send the salt to mars

[Edited on 2-14-2015 by blackwolfmt]

Barry A. - 2-14-2015 at 12:51 PM

That's what gets me!! Nasa wants to land peeps on mars when they should be finding an affordable way to desalinate sea water and send the salt to mars

[Edited on 2-14-2015 by blackwolfmt]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!! (except forget the "sending salt to mars")

Our priorities are often so screwed up!!!

Barry

monoloco - 2-14-2015 at 01:17 PM

In investing circles, it has long (50 years plus) been predicted that WATER WARS will replace OIL WARS in the future.

Conclusion: Invest in all things "water" related.

Sounds reasonable to me. :biggrin:

Barry

Never let a perfectly good crisis go to waste.

bajalearner - 2-14-2015 at 01:39 PM

That's what gets me!! Nasa wants to land peeps on mars when they should be finding an affordable way to desalinate sea water and send the salt to mars

[Edited on 2-14-2015 by blackwolfmt]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!! (except forget the "sending salt to mars")

Our priorities are often so screwed up!!!

Barry

"Our" priorities may not be inline with the wealthy. What if NASA is working toward a place for the wealthy to go and leave "us" here to tend the coal mines? You know, like Malibu compared to south central or the Hamptoms vs Harlem. :?:

Barry A. - 2-14-2015 at 02:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajalearner

That's what gets me!! Nasa wants to land peeps on mars when they should be finding an affordable way to desalinate sea water and send the salt to mars

[Edited on 2-14-2015 by blackwolfmt]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!! (except forget the "sending salt to mars")

Our priorities are often so screwed up!!!

Barry

Righttttttttttttt!!!!! :biggrin:

I, for one, will not go with them--------I like it just fine right here!!!

Barry

Barry A. - 2-14-2015 at 02:46 PM

Barry

Never let a perfectly good crisis go to waste.

Bottem line------- so true!!! Especially when the "crisis" is, as usual, caused by people with an agenda going off half-c-cked and thereby causing panic or reaction to something that can be minimally changed by man, if at all.

I just adapt to------well---------whatever, and try to take advantage of opportunities as they develop and as I find them.

Life is good (so far)

Barry

bezzell - 2-15-2015 at 08:04 AM

Hush now, you'll scare the children.
Everything is fine. God is in control.
Consume.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150212154422.ht...

motoged - 2-15-2015 at 10:43 AM

When I first posted this news article, I wasn't wanting to revive the climate change rant, rather I was thinking about how Baja might respond to diminishing water availability and how at least Nomads might respond....perhaps I should have added that to the post.

I live in an area where, when it is a "dry year", we suffer from significant forest fires...

I am interested in how Nomads living in areas with no or limited water supply systems manage their water needs....truck it in for underground cisterns, tanks on roof, wells, or what?

motoged - 2-15-2015 at 11:57 AM

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/02/14/nasa-warns-of-megadroughts-orig.cnn-nasa/video/playlists/most-popular-domestic/

David K - 2-15-2015 at 12:12 PM

I thought I saw a post a couple of months ago where DK said the drought was over?

You thought wrong, .... again... but have a nice day!

BajaRat - 2-15-2015 at 12:38 PM

The desert southwest is already sucking up the Colorado River and its tributaries NOB with next to nothing crossing the border into Mexico. The taping of ground water cannot sustain the current population and agricultural needs without those runoff sources.
The emergency is already here and Mexicali and its farms only have ground water left :no:

BajaRat - 2-15-2015 at 12:45 PM

And Yes man is directly connected with the current water strains in the desert southwest, the shortages are a man made problem period.

monoloco - 2-15-2015 at 01:12 PM

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/02/14/nasa-warns-of-megadroughts-orig.cnn-nasa/video/playlists/most-popular-domestic/

What do they know? Do they think they're a bunch of rocket scientists or something? Probably been paid off by Al Gore.

wessongroup - 2-15-2015 at 01:15 PM

:lol:

http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-water-brown-...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130816-color...

[Edited on 2-15-2015 by wessongroup]

DianaT - 2-15-2015 at 01:27 PM

I thought I saw a post a couple of months ago where DK said the drought was over?

You thought wrong, .... again... but have a nice day!

Quote from David K in March where he declared the drought not severe in San Diego and overall just a political problem.

Quote:

No, because the drought is not severe here... our local water supply is fine and because of conservation through smarter watering methods and low flow toilets, etc. we don't need to go on odd/even or selected days to irrigate. I am happy to report drip and low volume irrigation and smart controllers do work, and when installed and operated correctly reduce water use and maintain property value and beauty (and give us oxygen).

Again, the crisis is largely political... rain will come... but they want more dollars, now.

Page 6 of http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=72656&pag...

I guess that means that somehow the no snow pack AGAIN this year, is simply a political problem. If the politicians don't declare a severe drought, I guess is does not happen. :rolleyes:

Barry A. - 2-15-2015 at 02:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat

The desert southwest is already sucking up the Colorado River and its tributaries NOB with next to nothing crossing the border into Mexico. The taping of ground water cannot sustain the current population and agricultural needs without those runoff sources.
The emergency is already here and Mexicali and its farms only have ground water left :no:

Back in the early '60's when I was studying the problem of "water" in the southwest USA, there was little water reaching the Mexicali Valley of Mexico from the Colorado River despite Treaty commitments.

This problem is far from "new".

Barry

BajaRat - 2-15-2015 at 04:51 PM

My daughter likes to remind me that man has been on the planet for seconds on the 24 hour clock in the relation to the time line of this blue ball.
Once again we ditch the thought that man is effecting our environment and destroying our biodiversity.
Forget your climate change argument, please give me your info to deny ecological impact of man :?:

BajaRat - 2-15-2015 at 04:53 PM

Sorry Barry but the reduced flow of the Colorado starts with us :cool:

Barry A. - 2-15-2015 at 05:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat

Sorry Barry but the reduced flow of the Colorado starts with us :cool:

"Sorry Barry"????? Sorry for what? Man is TOTALLY responsible for the waters of the Colorado River (etc.) not reaching Mexico as it historically has done for eons. No argument there. All I am saying is that is not new----been going on for over 50 + years at least, that I know of. It should have been corrected years ago----another treaty/agreement broken by the USA.

Barry

Bajahowodd - 2-15-2015 at 05:38 PM

Barry is right. One of the major reasons for the huge development in places like Las Vegas and So Cal is the water from the Colorado river. It is sort of interesting that there have been record rains fro San Francisco up to Seattle, but he Colorado basin is still parched.

BajaRat - 2-15-2015 at 05:46 PM

Barry, You said it was far from new. I'm sorry, I thought you were implying that this problem was not man made.
Respect to you my man

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by BajaRat]

CortezBlue - 2-15-2015 at 06:36 PM

It's a desert!!!!!

I have lived in the Sonora Desert for 55 plus years.

We get about 12 inches of rain a year.

But, what I resent, is the FUD

FEAR

Uncertainty

Doubt

This has nothing to do with global warming. It has to do with population growth.

AZ and Phoenix in particular, is one of the fastest growing areas in the US.

We have the Central AZ Project. We have the Salt River Project

And besides, from what I have read, the global warming is going to cause more monsoon storms in the summer and more rain and flooding in the winter due to El Nino

FYI

We currently have reduced our drought substantially over the past 12 months, but it is highly unlikely that we will ever be out of a drought, living in the desert!!

Cliffy - 2-15-2015 at 08:37 PM

Los Angeles only grew bigger from historic small size when Mulholland brought water from the eastern Sierras in the early 1900s. Then the Colorado was tapped for more SoCal water. As was said, 'its a desert!". You don't have the same issues east of the Rockies. Climate change? IMHO, it's a natural phenomenon. We had an Ice Age 10,000 yrs ago. ice down to mid Atlantic region. Man may have an impact on "Local" water distribution ( Colorado, Eastern Sierra) and indirectly, by population growth world wide in the last 200 years but what is the alternative? Summery execution?
BTW, I live at Lake Powell. I'm looking out my window at the lake right now. We are 45% of full pool. We lose water until about May when the snow pack upstream melts then we gain 60-70 or more feet of water depth. The lake is 460 feet deep at the dam. It is 170+ miles long. We are today within 2 inches of what we had 2 years ago same day.
As was also said, we are ( we being man's existence on this planet) but an eye blink in the total history of the world. Climate change has always been active on the earth.
Why isn't man's position here ever considered another "natural phenomenon" in the history of the world. Why is always considered and abnormality?
Nothing lasts forever on the world. Pangea didn't last forever, nor any of its relatives. Dinosaurs only lasted hundreds of millions of years before they died out. Man will eventually die out just like everything else has done AS A NATURAL PHENOMENON.

wessongroup - 2-15-2015 at 09:31 PM

Agree Cliffy ... Based on the Law of thermodynamics as it applies to all matter we currently understand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

And we are seeing "it" applied globally at this time

Bit surprised about Lake Powell .. as a National Geo'a repot on the "river" and/or "lake's" was somewhat different

Noted that the comparisons are from 1999 and 2013, a very interesting interactive they have though

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130816-color...

Think the Anasazi might have idea's on drought and/or climate change, if we could ask them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Pueblo_peoples#Migratio...

And I'm NOT hoping for a drought ... anywhere

Pray and/or dance for rain/snow .. where needed

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by wessongroup]

David K - 2-15-2015 at 10:29 PM

March was almost a year ago, and there was no government draught water restrictions and that was my post, fact not myth.

The Colorado has many times stopped flowing to the gulf before and man NOTHING to do with it... Nature has and will continue to be more powerful than people.

wessongroup - 2-16-2015 at 12:13 AM

Yep when things get nasty with mother nature .. they really get nasty .. wouldn't disagree with that one :biggrin:

motoged - 2-16-2015 at 12:47 AM

.....

The Colorado has many times stopped flowing to the gulf before and man NOTHING to do with it... Nature has and will continue to be more powerful than people.

I do believe you are incorrect again.....humans have certainly affected its flow:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/colorado-river-drought-impact-tracked-space

Droughts have certainly predated this one....but increasing population and poor water management planning are factors at play with the river's levels:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/dyk/colorado-basin-drought

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by motoged]

bajabuddha - 2-16-2015 at 02:12 AM

The Colorado has many times stopped flowing to the gulf before and man NOTHING to do with it...

Just another two or three and there's the necklace; pearls of wisdom just keep on a-rollin'. Care to document that, oh scholar?

Before the Damn Dams the once-mighty Colorado would run easily over one hundred thousand cubic feet per second in flood-range, and the first Spanish sailors SAILED to almost current Las Vegas. ..... but that was before Reagan and your childhood.

Mexitron - 2-16-2015 at 06:47 AM

David's right---the Colorado has changed course from draining into the gulf many times in its history and instead filling up the Salton Sink (Lake Cahuilla). But we had this discussion in another thread a couple months ago.

Cliffy - 2-16-2015 at 08:34 AM

Here's data for all the Colorado River drainage I've got a headache from trying to read it all

http://lakepowell.water-data.com/

There are pages for all the lakes along the drainage

David K - 2-16-2015 at 08:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

David's right---the Colorado has changed course from draining into the gulf many times in its history and instead filling up the Salton Sink (Lake Cahuilla). But we had this discussion in another thread a couple months ago.

Thank you... while a few here may not like that I have some knowledge of the past, it doesn't make it untrue if it comes from my keyboard. I don't make up history, but if I make a mistake in how I report it, I am happy to have the correct answer provided... To me truth is what counts, not political or environmental New Age nonsense used to gain power over people by a vocal minority.

monoloco - 2-16-2015 at 09:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Do you really think that all the climate scientists at NASA, NOAA, and the world's top universities (and who get paid the same no matter what their data shows) have a "New Age" political agenda? What do they have to gain compared to the oil, coal, and gas industries who are spending billions to obfuscate the science? Almost all the prominent "skeptics", who are for the most part not even climate scientists, and in some cases like, Lord Moncton, not scientists at all, are on the payroll of these guys (and have been paid very well). It seems pretty obvious who really has the agenda, and has the most to gain by creating doubt.

monoloco - 2-16-2015 at 09:54 AM

Yes, and it is called 'funding'... if there is no "sky is falling" paranoia, then gullible liberals won't send in money (or take working people's money) to keep government scientists working or pretending they are more powerful than Nature.

So do you believe that we should just immediately declare that the climate is going to do what it's going to do, our activities have zero effect on it, and cease funding the study of climate related science? It seems to me like it would be a valid and important field of study whether humans are complicit or not.

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by monoloco]

Cliffy - 2-16-2015 at 09:57 AM

Why are there over 600 scientists standing by a letter they signed saying essentially it nothing but hooey?
Why has even the guy responsible for the original data collection saying HIS data collection is sloppy?
If I remember correctly, Tucson AZ was sited as an historical data collection site BUT the "concrete island effect" due to population explosion was not factored in on the final report for temp rise over the study period.
As has been postulated It all comes down to funding! The sky is falling!
We're looking at a few hundred years in what 4 or 5 billion?
Climatologists can't predict next weeks weather and now we are predicting the end of the earth?
Just heard this week that it has been the coldest winter back east on record. To add, there has been no significant warming trend for over 18 years from what I read.

monoloco - 2-16-2015 at 10:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Why are there over 600 scientists standing by a letter they signed saying essentially it nothing but hooey?
Why has even the guy responsible for the original data collection saying HIS data collection is sloppy?
If I remember correctly, Tucson AZ was sited as an historical data collection site BUT the "concrete island effect" due to population explosion was not factored in on the final report for temp rise over the study period.
As has been postulated It all comes down to funding! The sky is falling!
We're looking at a few hundred years in what 4 or 5 billion?
Climatologists can't predict next weeks weather and now we are predicting the end of the earth?
Just heard this week that it has been the coldest winter back east on record. To add, there has been no significant warming trend for over 18 years from what I read.

If you look at the qualifications of those 600 "scientists" almost none of them are climate scientists and many of them are not what we'd consider scientist at all, but just have bachelor of science degrees.

durrelllrobert - 2-16-2015 at 10:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Yep when things get nasty with mother nature .. they really get nasty .. wouldn't disagree with that one :biggrin:

..and so it did cometh to pass that it raineth for 40 days and 40 nights.

(Gen 7:12 KJV)

David K - 2-16-2015 at 10:23 AM

I think we should do the best we can to live well and help others by being our best. Clean energy is an awesome idea and when it is practical and affordable I am all for it. Punishing Americans with blame, taxes, and loss of freedom is not beneficial... specially when China and other nations are not in the least concerned with pollution and are powering up without restriction. If it's good enough for us, it should be good enough for them.

wessongroup - 2-16-2015 at 10:24 AM

Don't think anyone is suggesting that there hasn't been variation in climate on this planet over billions of years ...

Rather we are just talking about what is being observed and measured by science, at this time ... or at least that is what I'm talking about

As for the "river" ... all depends on who ya talk to ..

http://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/crsp/cs/gcd.html

These folks are suggesting much different numbers for the Lakes and the Colorado River in the future ... We will see at the end of 2015 how much run off there was ... pretty hard to quantify future amounts of moisture from the "Water Cycle" on the Planet ... It is still a very big place with million and million of variables which are all interrelated

Given the light weather tracks we have been seeing in CA this year ... Due to a High Pressure Ridge ... it isn't looking good

And is the reason a Law was passed to restrict groundwater overdraft by limiting "pumping" from same

That is something which is hard to imagine, for anyone that has had a "water well" on their own private property IMHO

mtgoat666 - 2-16-2015 at 10:52 AM

while a few here may not like that I have some knowledge of the past, it doesn't make it untrue if it comes from my keyboard. To me truth is what counts, not political or environmental New Age nonsense used to gain power over people by a vocal minority.

dk,
i find that about half of your posts are political nonsense that present your partisan fantasies as "truth." about 40% of your posts are posts about your baja trips, and are usually repeats from your previous posts. the remaining 10% are toyota tacoma advertisements. :lol:

BajaRat - 2-16-2015 at 11:09 AM

One thing that I hope we can all agree on is man is changing the environment of the desert Southwest including Northwest Mexico and cannot remain sustainable with its current water demands.

wessongroup - 2-16-2015 at 11:11 AM

Biggest use of petroleum here in the States is for "transportation"

And will be the most difficult to deal with, as we have become dependent on using: Ships, Airplanes, Trains, Trucks, and Cars for same, since Henry Ford ... and I'm not forgetting about equipment and oil used to produce food and fiber

Progress has its positives and negatives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environment

Perhaps Apple can come out with the iCar et al ...

I'm still betting on this and these guys for the real break through

http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/supersymmetry

Not the stock market

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by wessongroup]

mtgoat666 - 2-16-2015 at 11:15 AM

The SW water needs could be met by building a few more aqueducts. I like the idea of taking Columbia river water. What a grand infrastructure project! Let's tax and spend and golf in the desert! Employment and golf for all!

on this note..

captkw - 2-16-2015 at 11:17 AM

Anyone here watch the doc called "Chasing Ice"...that will sorta end the BS !! K&T :light:

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 11:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Don't think anyone is suggesting that there hasn't been variation in climate on this planet over billions of years ...

Rather we are just talking about what is being observed and measured by science, at this time ... or at least that is what I'm talking about

As for the "river" ... all depends on who ya talk to ..

http://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/crsp/cs/gcd.html

These folks are suggesting much different numbers for the Lakes and the Colorado River in the future ... We will see at the end of 2015 how much run off there was ... pretty hard to quantify future amounts of moisture from the "Water Cycle" on the Planet ... It is still a very big place with million and million of variables which are all interrelated

Wiley---------I can't get that USBR link to work, nor can I get any of the USBR links to work----------what gives??? (looks like a Govt. conspiracy to me) (-:

Barry

wessongroup - 2-16-2015 at 11:30 AM

Just tried it ... worked on my mac ... with Safari

Worked in Ag .. and water was somewhat important to that Industry ..

and btw ... Netflix has that Documentary on "Chasing Ice" which you can watch online now

It is very good

Cliffy - 2-16-2015 at 11:35 AM

I'd like to watch it because where I live we can't stream via computer or phone as neither have the download capacity. We don't even have cable here. Our neighborhood is out in the boonies with no good services that those in "the city" have as everyday services.

"Chasing Ice"

captkw - 2-16-2015 at 11:38 AM

its Free on You Tube and many others...type in your browser " "chasing Ice movie or doc" and many optains should come up !! BTW its so dry out in cali that bird poop is dry by the time it hites the ground and the fires this summer are gonna be HELL ! No water to put them out !! never thought it would get this bad in my lifetime,, this fast !!.....K&T

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by captkw]

motoged - 2-16-2015 at 12:17 PM

.....Punishing Americans with blame, taxes, and loss of freedom is not beneficial... specially when China and other nations are not in the least concerned with pollution and are powering up without restriction. If it's good enough for us, it should be good enough for them.

David,
"Punishing" ????? Another victim statement :rolleyes:

I don't mind when you are accurate or "correct" with info you may offer....it just doesn't seem to occur that often with such topics at times....

As for you lopsided political opinions....they are just irritating.

And as for your last comment above....are you suggesting that "if it's good enough for them", it is okay for others to follow suit ?

Your simplistic notion of "freedoms and rights" seems to obfuscate your view on many issues.... :?:

DianaT - 2-16-2015 at 01:23 PM

March was almost a year ago, and there was no government draught water restrictions and that was my post, fact not myth.

....

The two most disturbing parts of your quote from last March was your statement that the drought was not that bad and is WAS and is still severe through out the state and then your absurd statement that somehow it was being made a crisis because of politics is really absurd. This is a MULTI-year drought.

The continued drought is not a myth, nor is the needed assistance to help deal with the impact from the continued SEVERE drought.

Because you had plenty of water at the time truly ignored the depth of the problem and was very narrowly shortsighted.

Quote:

David K from http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=72656&pag...

No, because the drought is not severe here... our local water supply is fine ........

Again, the crisis is largely political... rain will come... but they want more dollars, now.

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 01:29 PM

David,
"Punishing" ????? Another victim statement :rolleyes:

"irritating" to you, perhaps, but not to millions of other's!!!

Your interpretation and use of "victim", based on the above statements, is also apparently very different than mine, but I will say no more on that.

And, include me on having "lopsided political opinions" as you define them!!!

I value the opinions of almost all NOMADS, even if I don't agree, but I hopefully draw the line at personal derogatory comments and attacks on one's character that attempt to marginalize and intimidate those you don't agree with (I can't think of any other reason for doing it)----- THAT strikes me as childish, and gets us no-where, if you know what I mean, and is REALLY IRRITATING.

Barry

cheers to DianaT

blackwolfmt - 2-16-2015 at 01:45 PM

user161115_pic572005_1294187927_thumb.gif - 49kB

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by blackwolfmt]

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 02:17 PM

As several have said, "we live in a desert"!!!! (def.: under 10 inches per year)

Droughts happen (in a Desert) really rather often.

People who live in a Desert should expect and prepare for "drought" as it IS going to happen, and occasionally it is severe. It then follows that unless folks are near dying from dehydration, they really don't individually need "help" from the Fed. or State Government, but yes we do expect our Government to manage mega-things long-term when possible (inter-state water management), and so far they do a pretty good job, with exceptions as always happens.

This is NOT a panic situation, and it is NOT that over-all severe yet--------and what happens next macro-weather-wise is not really up to mankind anyway, and the long-term "stats" certainly confirm THAT.

Basically, what David K actually said is correct, and certainly not "absurd", IMO.

Barry

DianaT - 2-16-2015 at 02:26 PM

As several have said, "we live in a desert"!!!! (def.: under 10 inches per year)

Droughts happen (in a Desert) really rather often.

People who live in a Desert should expect and prepare for "drought" as it IS going to happen, and occasionally it is severe. It then follows that unless folks are near dying from dehydration, they really don't individually need "help" from the Fed. or State Government, but yes we do expect our Government to manage mega-things long-term when possible (inter-state water management), and so far they do a pretty good job, with exceptions as always happens.

This is NOT a panic situation, and it is NOT that over-all severe yet--------and what happens next macro-weather-wise is not really up to mankind anyway, and the long-term "stats" certainly confirm THAT.

Basically, what David K actually said is correct, and certainly not "absurd", IMO.

Barry

If David said the sky was green, you would agree with him --- always. That is a given.

Following your logic for people not needing assistance to deal with the drought, I guess you would also think that people who are harmed by earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, fires, etc. should also not need or take public assistance since they choose to live in areas where these disasters are apt to happen?

There are people who believe everyone should be on their own --- followers of Ayn Rand, that is until she needed Medicare.

It is a different philosophy that believes in something called the common good.

There is next to no snow pack again this year.

bezzell - 2-16-2015 at 02:55 PM

Basically, what David K actually said is correct, and certainly not "absurd", IMO.

Both of you, are as dumb as a box of ol' missionary rocks.

Mexitron - 2-16-2015 at 03:01 PM

Geezuz, Ayn Rand---before anyone takes her writing hook, line, and sinker go read about her adulterous life--no wonder she proclaimed selfishness as good. Not that she doesn't have some words of wisdom but the lady was a little out there.

On the drought---if you think about it the government has done a fabulous job of managing water since the 1970s droughts---the population has exploded and they're able to manage this, a worse drought than the 70s, and with a lot more people demanding it. For example look at the incredible infrastructure they've built in Huntington Beach by the Santa Ana River to recapture waste water and pump it back into the aquifer.

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by Mexitron]

"Just the Facts Mam ! " sgt. friday

captkw - 2-16-2015 at 03:02 PM

You all can talk about all Ya want ! But the FACT remains cali is in deep Doo Doo with NO snow pack and dry watersheid,,resivoirs and lakes...and with no end in sight....And its not written in stone that there will be a winter next season...4 yrs of drought is getting scary !! lake Shasta,,Oroville and many,,many others will not open this season.... :no:

Timinator - 2-16-2015 at 03:02 PM

You take care of you and I'll take care of me. Rand had it right, not our current string of politicians.

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 03:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DianaT

LOL (a "green sky" would be sorta pretty, es verdad???)

What ACTUALLY happens is that when I mildly disagree with something David says (rare), I KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT because it's just his opinion, take it or leave it. On the other hand, I will sometimes defend MY position, and if somebody else says close to what I believe and is attacked for it, I will defend THEIR position, also. THAT is what you are seeing (cluck, cluck) I would, and have, done the same for you. (cluck, cluck)

As for my opinion on Govt. "public assistance"---- ABSOLUTELY I don't agree with the "assistance" that is routinely provided to people that should know better, and prepare for, whatever!!!! That is what INSURANCE is all about. If you can't afford insurance then you probably should not put yourself in harms-way as much as you do (the moral-hazard of "assistance, and bail-outs"---a truly escalating & unsustainable problem in the Nanny-State).

People who believe in being mostly "on their own" are normally not fools-----if they are going to be outvoted by people who apparently WANT the Nanny-State, then YES many loner's are not going to refuse what everybody else thinks they are entitled too, no matter how long-term corrosive it is to mankind in general----to do so is just stupid. Hypocrisy, yes, we all are hypocrites from time to time!?!?!? Ayn Rand would have bought Insurance had not Medicare been available, I am betting. She is no fool!!! My Family is "insured" against almost EVERYTHING, including long term Health Care. LOL

The "common good" is National Defense, primarily against the barbarians, and a few other things like minimal regulations and enforcement of those regs. i.e.. the Justice System, and infrastructure--------THAT is what I expect my Govt. to provide, and little more. Using my taxes for all those other things that I don't approve of and erodes peoples independence and self-respect really irritates me, and is the reason I normally want to "starve the beast", with a few exceptions.

With 70 years experience in the Eastern Sierra I have seen the mts. almost devoid of snow many times-------and we survived as did our neighbors, for the most part--------it's a desert environment. We even survived the rape of Eastern Sierra water by LA (for the "common good"?!?!?!)---you just adjust!!

Barry

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 03:18 PM

You all can talk about all Ya want ! But the FACT remains cali is in deep Doo Doo with NO snow pack and dry watersheid,,resivoirs and lakes...and with no end in sight....And its not written in stone that there will be a winter next season...4 yrs of drought is getting scary !! lake Shasta,,Oroville and many,,many others will not open this season.... :no:

Capt.-----"will not open" ????? Both Trinity and Shasta Lakes are up significantly in the last 10 to 20 days and there are at least 3 months of the rainy-season to go--------Lake Shasta is up over 20 feet in just the last few days-----------I have not given up on the rain just yet after reviewing the history of rain in this area. (but who really knows??)

Barry

optimism is a good thing !!

captkw - 2-16-2015 at 03:29 PM

that's the report that I have read about Shasta and Oroville....and we have a february. heat wave!! 74 degrees here......santa cruz area (aptos hills) and everthing is sorta backwards...B.C.S. had rain and we havnt.......the SAC river is low and slow...looks like we will only have the "Delta's" for fresh water boating :wow:

...K&T

wessongroup - 2-16-2015 at 04:10 PM

Would appear a different view is seen by some, in California

WOW now how is that possible :lol:

"With California facing one of the most severe droughts on record, Governor Brown declared a drought State of Emergency in January and directed state officials to take all necessary actions to prepare for water shortages. The state has continued to lead the way to make sure California is able to cope with an unprecedented drought."

http://ca.gov/drought/

We are thinking of adding another AGST for potable water here in OC, CA ... currently 550 :biggrin:

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by wessongroup]

monoloco - 2-16-2015 at 04:17 PM

We can disagree on what the best course of action is, but it seems like the science is pretty bullet proof, that pouring millions of tons of of CO2 and other substances into the atmosphere on a daily basis, is affecting the climate of the earth. As long as groups of shills for the oil and coal industry can create doubt about the science, we'll never get to the point where we will come to any consensus on the most effective and efficient way to reduce our outputs of greenhouse gases. I believe that is what the petrochemical and coal groups are trying to accomplish with their campaign. They are the ones that will suffer the biggest financial consequences, they certainly have much more to lose than any scientist has to gain. We can disagree on the solution, considering global politics, even I am very skeptical that we are capable of any meaningful reduction in time to change the consequences of our actions, but the worst thing we can do is deny the science of it.

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by monoloco]

motoged - 2-16-2015 at 04:18 PM

....I value the opinions of almost all NOMADS, even if I don't agree, but I hopefully draw the line at personal derogatory comments and attacks on one's character that attempt to marginalize and intimidate those you don't agree with (I can't think of any other reason for doing it)----- THAT strikes me as childish, and gets us no-where, if you know what I mean, and is REALLY IRRITATING.
Barry

Barry,
I think I tend to take DK to task when he does that name-calling stuff you point out directed at folks of a different political/ ideological persuasion.....so I suppose we are both guilty of such childish behaviour.

I certainly am not trying to intimidate anyone....rather, just throwing back in kind a style of presenting ideas.

I know I can irritate some folks, and try to keep that to a minimum....unless my intention is to irritate.

I hold some conservative values myself, but try to blend them with some humanistic principles and willingness to sometimes care for those less fortunate. Being imperfect, it's a work in progress.

Good for you for defending DK as well as your own views....nothing wrong or irritating about that.

monoloco - 2-16-2015 at 04:27 PM

We should have been more prepared for drought, but we obviously aren't, considering that we somehow thought it was a good idea to put cities with millions of people and develop a huge agricultural industry in that desert. Now what? Tell everyone they need to move? Need to get your food somewhere else? Those are bitter pills to swallow.

wessongroup - 2-16-2015 at 04:30 PM

Most definitely .. hard to swallow, without water to wash it down .. beer and/or wine can work for a while, but, long term not a good idea :biggrin:

sancho - 2-16-2015 at 04:36 PM

Snowfall in the Sierras Central Ca. is currently 20/25 percent of
average. DK is a wealth of knowledge when one wants
Info on camping on the sand tidal isle in front of Percebu,
why anyone would want to align oneself with any of his opinions
escapes me, unless one wants to be on his happy birthday
list he has for his followers

snow pack numbers !!

captkw - 2-16-2015 at 04:50 PM

I firmly belive and know from two ex's..one above paradise ca and the other north of reno, and some friends and fishing post's..thats its easy to crunch numbers in regard to snow pack !! there really isn't any and the sun is out!! even the ski resorts with snow machines are closed.....Im always in Baja for winter and watch the waetrher in cali like a hawk...If it concerns my Finned Friends I'm all over it and it's not good..the rain season ends at the end of march...the 20/25 percent of norm was back 2 months ago when they do the pipe in the snow and weigh it thing.....warm rain and sun have removed much of the "pack" and I use the term loosly :wow:

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by captkw]

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 05:01 PM

Ged------I appreciate your response, and comments, always. I wondered if I am behaving in ways that I have criticized----and frankly don't know-----I hope not.

I see David's responses somewhat differently than you (duh, I am biased)---------to me he does not really attack, simply defends his position using his standards, but also shows his despair for the more progressive points of view often expressed on this Board by giving his own rebuttals sometimes with sarcasm. I can't think of any cases where he used "name-calling", but maybe?

To me that is the difference-----------David defends with his opinion whereas the left attacks him for expressing or even having that opinion. It is hard for me to understand that, given his profuse contributions to this Board. The zany assumptions that people constantly attribute to him, and others, mostly in error, just are not defensible, IMO. We do have different perspectives, I guess, tho I am not accusing you specifically of any of this abuse above.

On an another topic----------Providing links expressing sources is important, I guess, but often I feel that they are just other's opinions, even though arguably learned opinions. Having dealt with "Scientists" & "Specialists" all my career life, I am very skeptical of their proclamations based on narrow interpretations and stats having seen the results of many of their recommendations after implementation during my early years. Later, when a Manager, I certainly did not ignore them, just considered them as important learned input on specific subjects. My opinions I suppose are a composite of all that input, but I can't specifically refer to the sources anymore------way too numerous and forgotten. I realize that erodes what credibility I might have, and understand that.

Many of the sources that others provide links too are way over my head-----------

If I can't understand them completely then they don't do me much good.

Barry

blackwolfmt - 2-16-2015 at 05:20 PM

I firmly belive and know from two ex's..one above paradise ca and the other north of reno, and some friends and fishing post's..thats its easy to crunch numbers in regard to snow pack !! there really isn't any and the sun is out!! even the ski resorts with snow machines are closed.....Im always in Baja for winter and watch the waetrher in cali like a hawk...If it concerns my Finned Friends I'm all over it and it's not good..the rain season ends at the end of march...the 20/25 percent of norm was back 2 months ago when they do the pipe in the snow and weigh it thing.....warm rain and sun have removed much of the "pack" and I use the term loosly :wow:

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by captkw]

I agree 100% and don't forget the DUST that lands on the snowpack make's it melt way faster, IMO drought is considerably worse when you add the increasing population of humans that need it to live for food and drinking water, whether or not it is caused by Stupid humans or mother nature, the question iswhat's the solution if we cant make it rain enough to get what we need why can't we get it from the OCEAN, if NASA can go to mars they can figure out how to get salt out of the water in the ocean a practical way, and don't say No they can't it cost to much $$$ BS I guess if we could live off drinking oil there would be no probs EH!!

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 05:20 PM

No, No--------Don't "tell" the people anything, other than this can't just keep going on forever!!! Everybody "in the know" knew what they were doing and the eventual consequences, but did it anyway (there was money to be made). What I don't expect is "people" to just expect that the Govt. is somehow going to "bail them out", even tho that is the precedent that has been set (called 'moral hazard'). People will do what they will do------most will just deal with it, or move on (as they already are). In the mean time many will muddle thru, as we always seem to do (so far). Nature will dictate what finally happens, as always, unless man gets drastically involved and THEN all bets are off!!!.

Barry

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 05:27 PM

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by captkw]

Agree!!! Doesn't Israel get much of it's fresh water from desalinization?? It can be done. Is it worth it is another matter.

Priorities, priorities, priorities!!!!

Barry

David K - 2-16-2015 at 05:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

Snowfall in the Sierras Central Ca. is currently 20/25 percent of
average. DK is a wealth of knowledge when one wants
Info on camping on the sand tidal isle in front of Percebu,
why anyone would want to align oneself with any of his opinions
escapes me, unless one wants to be on his happy birthday
list he has for his followers

Let's be clear... I don't have followers, I believe in people and not government bureaucrats. My sand island would be long gone or much smaller if the seal levels rose in the 36 years I have been camping there. The hard salt flats would be underwater at every high tide, and not just the few extreme lunar high tides. My opinions are based on facts, observations, logic and common sense. Now that I am over 55, I think I can also use personal life... The weather is not any weirder than the sum of all the past years I can remember. In fact, it was more severe when I was a kid here in San Diego! We had water spouts off Del Mar and they came ashore up near Newport Beach and damaged buildings early 1960's (and that makes them tornadoes). We had snow on the ground deep enough to make a snowman (1967, I think). In 1977 or around then we had over 100 mph winds... Summers were a lot hotter and lake levels were a lot lower too.

I think saying Happy Birthday is nice, and I get notices on Linked In or Facebook when any Nomad who is also a Facebook friend or I remember it comes up.

Why is there such a desire to not be happy by some of you... Living in fear from global events is just making some of you unhappy campers. These past years of hope and change sure haven't cheered many up (except the government employees)!

I sure am looking forward to future Baja trips and times with my amigos!

David K - 2-16-2015 at 05:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DianaT

March was almost a year ago, and there was no government draught water restrictions and that was my post, fact not myth.

....

Quote:

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by DianaT]

LOL... as I said, according to the 'government' who makes the water restrictions... The same government who can't decide if it is global warming or cooling... I don't make up the rules Diana, I just reported back then what was THEN the facts... that water use was down, water restrictions were not needed and the drought was not that bad.

Obviously, government was wrong or they needed an excuse to restrict water use by private citizens... either way it was government making up the drought or water shortage. We never had enough water here for a large population or lots of groves, so we built reservoirs, dams, canals and aqueducts to BRING water here... about 50-120 years ago.
What happened since, climate change? NO! More people here, and losing 50% of our water to the Arizona Project so all the new people there could have some is the government created drought in SoCal.

willardguy - 2-16-2015 at 05:58 PM

oh man, you got him on a roll now.......... :no:

motoged - 2-16-2015 at 05:58 PM

Barry,
Water resources are really the main topic on this thread....when someone comes out with accusations that people who differ in their political views/beliefs are New Age thinkers who want to take money from working people and expect the government to cater to all their needs in a "nanny state" is the lop-sided kind of statements I react to and consider such statements to be name-calling and an attempt to marginalize such viewpoints.

I can't be bothered with pouring over his or anyone else's posts to provide specific "evidence"....but may start to bookmark such missives to demonstrate my "rights to free speech" should it be required.

If he continues with such generalizing insults, I will likely continue to throw such turds back over the fence into his well-watered lawn.

I appreciate that your views may differ from others, but appreciate more that you don't present them with DK's twist.

Back to managing our limited and/or diminishing resources....

My father predicted 50 years ago that the USA would someday invade Canada for its water....our crappy free-trade agreement may well have set up a system where the invasion won't be required.

DianaT - 2-16-2015 at 06:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

oh man, you got him on a roll now.......... :no:

As usual, hearing the sound of a strong wind whistling by, or through empty space, it is time to retreat.

motoged - 2-16-2015 at 06:21 PM

Some Nomad has a sig line that says something about trying to teach a pig to sing....and that it disappoints the teacher and frustrates the pig....something like that.

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 06:22 PM

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by captkw]

It's bad, Capt., but not THAT bad. I just checked, and all the Tahoe Ski Areas are open, tho a few outside Tahoe are closed for now, including Mt. Shasta Ski Park.

If we don't get some significant snow soon, then we have a problem, and so far it's not lookin good.

Barry

Barry

Barry A. - 2-16-2015 at 06:26 PM

Barry,
Water resources are really the main topic on this thread....when someone comes out with accusations that people who differ in their political views/beliefs are New Age thinkers who want to take money from working people and expect the government to cater to all their needs in a "nanny state" is the lop-sided kind of statements I react to and consider such statements to be name-calling and an attempt to marginalize such viewpoints.

I can't be bothered with pouring over his or anyone else's posts to provide specific "evidence"....but may start to bookmark such missives to demonstrate my "rights to free speech" should it be required.

If he continues with such generalizing insults, I will likely continue to throw such turds back over the fence into his well-watered lawn.

I appreciate that your views may differ from others, but appreciate more that you don't present them with DK's twist.

Back to managing our limited and/or diminishing resources....

My father predicted 50 years ago that the USA would someday invade Canada for its water....our crappy free-trade agreement may well have set up a system where the invasion won't be required.

---------as long as they don't come after OUR NoCal water--------remember, we are all red-necks up here (except Vag and a few others) and we do have our guns!!! :bounce:

Barry

David K - 2-16-2015 at 06:31 PM

They are still skiing in the little mountains near Los Angeles... I can see the snow on them from down here, 100 miles away just today!

Some folks really need to get off of MSNBC and look at the world for themselves... Go to a beach where they went as kids. I bet the parking lot there is still above sea level! LOL

bezzell - 2-16-2015 at 06:46 PM

I wanna hear the one about how Greenland's rising due to tectonics, and NOT the melting, as this slipped through the referee journal / peer review process! (But the sprinkler guy knows better!) Tell us that one again Uncy Dave!! pleeease!!!

:lol:

(impossible to make this stuff up!)

blackwolfmt - 2-16-2015 at 06:48 PM

They are still skiing in the little mountains near Los Angeles... I can see the snow on them from down here, 100 miles away just today!

Some folks really need to get off of MSNBC and look at the world for themselves... Go to a beach where they went as kids. I bet the parking lot there is still above sea level! LOL

ARE U for real DK = (Don't Know) what your talking about 24" base at the summit ain't normal for winter those winters are rare anymore are you a lobbyist in your spare time?? No really are U

willardguy - 2-16-2015 at 07:20 PM

I bet the parking lot there is still above sea level! LOL

yuk it up david. just exactly what are you willing to bet? :?:

vgabndo - 2-16-2015 at 08:15 PM