BajaNomad

55 DEAD DOLPHINS

luv2fish - 3-13-2015 at 09:30 AM

Wow I wonder if the changing times are responsible for the deaths of these beautiful creatures.

I cant paste the article, but if you go to zetatijuana.com you can read the story. Looks like this happened in San Felipe.

StuckSucks - 3-13-2015 at 09:53 AM

Hallan 55 delfines y 4 lobos marinos muertos en Playa de San Felipe

Google Translate:


Through a statement, the Federal Attorney for Environmental Protection (PROFEPA) reported that found the remains of 55 dolphins and 4 sea lions stranded on a beach strip almost 124 km -for the south of the town of San Felipe. So far, the cause of death of the animals are unknown.

It was through a citizen complaint that reported finding the PROFEPA Baja California, so the land tour was held on March 11 in the southern part of San Felipe, Baja California, from the place called "La Hacienda" to the fishing camp called "El Caracol", located opposite the Puertecitos-San Luis Gonzaga, Ensenada, Baja California highway.

"In that traveled a total of 55 dolphins and 4 sea lions were found dead; these are found scattered manner (various events) along the beach (sandy substrate)"

The statement added that the species is identified sea lion Zalophus californianus and species of dolphin is Delphinus spp. (Common dolphin).

"Of the bodies found, it is assumed that 22 dolphins have about 20 days or more have died (in some cases already seen the skeleton), and the remaining 33 dolphins coupled with sea lions April 4, is estimated to be approximately of 5-7 days dead. "

All animals in an advanced state of decomposition. The cause of death is unknown, since the observation of the specimens is highlighted not have any laceration or wound or no presence of nets, hooks or traces indicating that death is attributable to fishing.

The information indicates that local fishermen mentioned that recently the unusual sighting of over 200 dolphins was in the area with apparent good health.

The Delegation of PROFEPA in BC contacted research institutions and staff of the Federal Commission for Protection against Health Risks (COFEPRIS) in order to investigate the causes of the deaths.

David K - 3-13-2015 at 10:00 AM

With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

durrelllrobert - 3-13-2015 at 10:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.


Why is it that "protected" mammal species always make the news as dying from "unknown causes" while with we unprotected human species the cause is always known?

luv2fish - 3-13-2015 at 11:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.

David K - 3-13-2015 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.

blackwolfmt - 3-13-2015 at 12:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.



I think someone should throw professor DK out in that water and see what happens, it's human caused and DK is to ignorant to see the writing on the wall,once again

J.P. - 3-13-2015 at 12:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.



I think someone should throw professor DK out in that water and see what happens, it's human caused and DK is to ignorant to see the writing on the wall,once again







He really does give new meaning to the word IGNORANT, I am afraid for him it may be terminal.

David K - 3-13-2015 at 12:46 PM

Why do you think it is human caused... other than your wanting to blame man for everything bad and Nature has no say in life? I would LOVE actual facts and not just forecasts based on limited data collection.

If a farm near Puerto Penasco is using something bad, I hope it can be stopped... I don't like dead animals on the beach anymore than the next guy. I just don't believe making life hell for people is the end-all solution, if it doesn't change anything.

motoged - 3-13-2015 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Why do you think it is human caused... ........ I just don't believe making life hell for people is the end-all solution, if it doesn't change anything.


No one said it was human-caused....the original poster wondered if it was a symptom of the changing times.

And who is making life hell for you and/or others, David?

If life is hell for you these days, that is just too bad....as you pointed out, living organisms die, so suck it up.

It would be a treat to get the sense that you care for the planet as much as you do defending Toyotas.

motoged - 3-13-2015 at 02:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by durrelllrobert  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.


Why is it that "protected" mammal species always make the news as dying from "unknown causes" while with we unprotected human species the cause is always known?



I will take a run at that:

1) "Protected" animals are protected as they are likely at risk of unnecessary destruction....limiting the bio-diversity of the planet, tipping the balance, and because it will be sad when all the endangered species disappear (often due to human encroachment). "Sad" doesn't cut it for some folks.....but human emotions play into human behaviours one way or another.
The mystery of causality at times becomes the question....and human curiousity has led in some situations to the development of "the sciences"....which has tended to be a useful pastime for humans and other organisms on the planet. What is killing "them" might end up killing "us".....so the enquiry has value.
" Protected species" at times attract more attention due to their scarcity.....and that sometimes makes things more valuable (e.g. gold is more valuable than manure in most situation due to gold's scarcity....as well as for reasons of application/utility.....).
And it makes the news because of the unusual nature of the incident and because people might be interested in that information. Why do you read or watch tv? .....at least for entertainment if not learning, I would assume.


2) I think the human species IS being protected.....mostly by its self.....as we have abilities beyond other species that allow us to protect ourselves.....other species have their own survival protection behaviours going on. Biological organisms are designed to eat, reproduce, and die.....we at our end of that food chain do it in our own peculiar ways.....writing about it or newscasting it is easier for us than for sea lions and dolphins....and we just don't know if or how sea lions and dolphins are presenting their concerns of their demise or unusual events that seem to cause irregular patterns.

Maybe we know the causes for our human deaths because science (human curiousity intelligently pursued) has helped us explain that.
However, we don't know what caused the "disappearance" of that Malaysian plane....but if someone figures it out it might prevent the likelihood of such an event happening again. Simply saying, "Well, we all die after a while anyways....so don't worry or think about it." isn't a very intelligent way of explaining or responding to it.


There is enough evidence that other organisms have survival mechanisms that help them protect themselves.....

Maybe humans could help be the caretakers of the planet more than the consumers of it.

But maybe humans are simply a type of virus/parasite that is consuming its host. And maybe we are not as high and mighty as we think.....and the c-ckroaches will far outlive our species.

Just some thoughts.....:light:

[Edited on 3-13-2015 by motoged]

David K - 3-13-2015 at 03:14 PM

Is our English that much different? I didn't say it was hell for me...

"I just don't believe making life hell for people is the end-all solution, if it doesn't change anything."

I am not selfish, I am thinking of my fellow man (all people) that government can ruin the hopes and dreams of for some do-gooder cause that ends up having worse results than if never messed with.

Make sense? Or, are you of the kind who thinks anything done by man is bad and it takes government (a village, lol) to make it right.

motoged - 3-13-2015 at 03:41 PM

Yes, the "Queen's English" IS different than "American English"....but that has nothing to do with my comment, usually it only pertains to spelling, David.

You, as a person, I assumed would be included in the 'people" in the hell you referred to. Maybe you are an alien and not one of "We, the people".....but I trust that you are one of the "people".

Aside from your tireless rant against government, you might want to consider the nature of change.....but you certainly don't have to agree.

An interesting read that will only take a few minutes:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/the-anthropocene-was-1610-the-start-of-the-age-of-man-1.2993907

motoged - 3-13-2015 at 05:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


Liberals don't trust people, think people are unable to take care of themselves, and think only they are benevolent enough to to provide our needs.



David,
Thanks for explaining that....I finally understand your viewpoint :rolleyes:

It took me a while....but my 63 years of life experience was getting my way of your logic.....I will go for some electroshock therapy and catch up with your way of thinking.:lol::lol:

danaeb - 3-13-2015 at 06:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.


And isn't the "we" who will try to get to the bottom of this the various government agencies charged with determining the cause?

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2015 at 07:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Not against government at all. Why is it difficult for you to understand I am for limited government, and more freedom. The government our founders gave us, not the mega disaster we have allowed it to become.

Liberals don't trust people, think people are unable to take care of themselves, and think only they are benevolent enough to to provide our needs.

I trust people and people can take care of the local needs, locally while still honoring the rights of all to equal opportunity and equal justice. The purpose of federal government is to protect the people from foreign threats, the national defense, and any forms of fraud.


Dk:
Trusting people is not a liberal or conservative thing. Smart liberals and smart conservatives do not trust people until those people prove their reliability. You are a fool to trust strangers. Half of people are stupid, and most people are selfish.

P.s. As a general rule, the least trust worthy politicians are the conservatives. They are the ones that put corporations and money before commoners

[Edited on 3-14-2015 by mtgoat666]

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Cisco - 3-13-2015 at 07:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Why do you think it is human caused... other than your wanting to blame man for everything bad and Nature has no say in life? I would LOVE actual facts and not just forecasts based on limited data collection.




"Climate change can no longer be discounted in any future energy business model. The pressures to deal with a phenomenon that could quite literally destroy human civilization are growing."

From the article: The Real Reason Behind the Oil Price Collapse
http://www.thenation.com/article/201249/real-reason-behind-o...

These are the people (BP, Exxon,...) who stand to win or lose the most in the debate over climate change, and they had changed their minds a decade ago but could not resist the stockholder demands to not make climate specific enhancements to their model lest it cost them MONEY.

---

Cisco - 3-13-2015 at 08:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Why do you think it is human caused... other than your wanting to blame man for everything bad and Nature has no say in life? I would LOVE actual facts and not just forecasts based on limited data collection.



Here is a ACTUAL FACT that you can LOVE!!!

At one point in my life I was busy blowing up nuclear devices on/in/or above the Pacific Ocean to see what would happen. (ya know how it goes, did it when you were a kid "NOW, this time let's use a WHOLE PACK of Mint-O's)".

I have related this before on forum and the one reply said "Sounds better than dynamiting fishies".

So, we're 400 miles SW of San Diego on this one underwater shoot, a 13.5 KiloTon device. That put's us about due West of Shari and Juan's with a device about the size of the one we used at Hiroshima on REAL PEOPLE.

As a commercial fisherman I wondered about the sea life and sustainability even then (five decades ago) and particularly what would happen to the mammals when an explosion of this magnitude occurred in an environment (sea water) 700 times more dense than surface air.

The water transmits well as we know of mammals communicating over tens and possibly even hundreds of miles using VLF (which we were using listening in on the Russian subs at that time from the full-wave antenna site on the strand north of Imperial Beach).

So, KA-BOOM went the explosion and then KA-BANG many seconds later as the explosive force hit and rebounded with much more force from the sea-floor.

Knocked all four generators off the four 900 hp ALCO diesels and we were DEAD in the water.

How many mammals died? Had hearing problems and were no longer communicative? How far away did we hurt them?

"Who gives a chit!" Now we know what will happen to the enemy.

I wanted to puke.

wrong formum?

akshadow - 3-13-2015 at 09:21 PM

SFandH - 3-14-2015 at 05:51 AM

Some quick reading indicates that the reason these animals beach themselves in groups is not known. It is not something new.

Here's one article, it's about whales and dolphins:

http://environment.about.com/od/biodiversityconservation/f/w...



More dead birds and dolphins

Bajasun222 - 3-14-2015 at 09:27 AM

This is my first post on Baja Nomads. We have lived in the Punta Bufeo area for 14 years and we have never experienced as many dead dolphins and sea birds as we have in the last two months. About 4-5 weeks ago we loaded more than 200 birds (blue-footed Boobies, pelicans, shore birds, cormorants) out to the desert and 10 dolphins. There are more than 15 dead dolphins in about a 1 mile stretch that we didn't haul. One dolphin just washed in with a tight nylon rope around its' belly and 20' more of rope behind it.....we saw the red tide in late January/early February. It was bad. But what I can't explain is why only some birds, no seagulls, were affected, no dead fish, and only one seal? We had so many panga's in the water it looked like a city. It seems like a combination of man and nature. We are hoping the moratorium on commercial fishing will be enforced and nature will take her course. Thanks for allowing me to share.

blackwolfmt - 3-14-2015 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.


This article is kinda old but I doubt things have gotten better for sea life in the cortez since it was written, So much for professor DK's pollution theory

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041208202518.ht...

David K - 3-14-2015 at 09:28 AM

Thanks Cisco, In read your post before... and how secret was it that we blew atomic bombs off Mexico instead of the Marshall Islands? There is nothing on the Internet showing anything 400 miles SW from San Diego... will you get busted for revealing this?

David K - 3-14-2015 at 09:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.


This article is kinda old but I doubt things have gotten better for sea life in the cortez since it was written, So much for professor DK's pollution theory

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041208202518.ht...


Being rude is not needed, just the facts please... and from YOUR link, map shows and article states not man-made:

Algal blooms occur naturally when cold-water upwellings bring from the seafloor to the surface nutrients that stimulate the rapid reproduction and growth of microscopic algae, also known as phytoplankton. These events often benefit marine ecosystems by generating tons of algae that are consumed by larger organisms.

David K - 3-14-2015 at 09:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajasun222  
This is my first post on Baja Nomads. We have lived in the Punta Bufeo area for 14 years and we have never experienced as many dead dolphins and sea birds as we have in the last two months. About 4-5 weeks ago we loaded more than 200 birds (blue-footed Boobies, pelicans, shore birds, cormorants) out to the desert and 10 dolphins. There are more than 15 dead dolphins in about a 1 mile stretch that we didn't haul. One dolphin just washed in with a tight nylon rope around its' belly and 20' more of rope behind it.....we saw the red tide in late January/early February. It was bad. But what I can't explain is why only some birds, no seagulls, were affected, no dead fish, and only one seal? We had so many panga's in the water it looked like a city. It seems like a combination of man and nature. We are hoping the moratorium on commercial fishing will be enforced and nature will take her course. Thanks for allowing me to share.


Welcome to Nomad and thank you for sharing!

blackwolfmt - 3-14-2015 at 09:34 AM

Scientists have found the first direct evidence linking large-scale coastal farming to massive blooms of marine algae that are potentially harmful to ocean life and fisheries.

Who else is doing the farming then DK the fish??

David K - 3-14-2015 at 10:03 AM

Tell me where in Baja is large scale coastal farming!

motoged - 3-14-2015 at 10:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  
Scientists have found the first direct evidence linking large-scale coastal farming to massive blooms of marine algae that are potentially harmful to ocean life and fisheries.

Who else is doing the farming then DK the fish??


Wolf, DK has a far better grasp of this situation than any group of educated scientists....when will you get it that they tend to be liberal do-gooders who are trying to make the world hell for people with their big-government propaganda :rolleyes:

blackwolfmt - 3-14-2015 at 10:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Tell me where in Baja is large scale coastal farming!


DK Sounds like U are only wise to missions of baja

http://harpers.org/blog/2013/08/on-the-trouble-with-farmed-s...

Yes Ged ur right I guess I need shock therapy also

David K - 3-14-2015 at 10:40 AM

So, rather than answer the question, you will ignore that fact that there is NO 'large-scale coastal farming' in Baja. I am not sure if any even exist in Sonora... it is desert over there, too... but with much more water, so maybe? That is why I ask.

It just can't be a natural disaster, it must be a man-made one, right? Let's invent more things like these desert farms in Baja to blame people.

Why is Nature (or God if you believe) never given credit for being more powerful than man... she (He) is!

bajabuddha - 3-14-2015 at 10:56 AM

... and I just saved a bundle on my car insurance yesterday in just 15 minutes! :bounce:

Enrique2012 - 3-14-2015 at 11:04 AM

Motoged, your elitist and smug way of addressing this subject is really unattractive. I'm glad you're just an internet forum troll and not someone who yields any real power.

David K - 3-14-2015 at 11:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
... and I just saved a bundle on my car insurance yesterday in just 15 minutes! :bounce:





:lol: This forum needs more humor!

SFandH - 3-14-2015 at 11:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Tell me where in Baja is large scale coastal farming!


depends upon what you mean by "large scale".

Ejido Erendira, tomatoes and chilies, and the valley that leads to Puerto Santo Tomas / Punta China. I imagine lots of pesticides and fertilizers get washed into the ocean from both those spots during heavy rains.

The coastal area near Colonet too.

But that's the Pacific, not the SoC.

David K - 3-14-2015 at 11:37 AM

It was blackwolfmt's post I quoted the 'large scale' from... and yes, it needs to be on the gulf coast. I am well aware of the tomato farms south of Ensenada.

I just want people to think for themselves and not fall for any special interest group's agenda to punish and tax Americans or any people!

bajabuddha - 3-14-2015 at 12:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

I just want people to think for themselves and not fall for any special interest group's agenda.....



BAW, HAW HAW HAW HAWWWWW !!!

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


:lol: This forum needs more humor!



No, we really don't. You supply me at least with enough that I cancelled the Sunday funnies!

JAA, JAA, JAAAAA, Oh, my sides hurt !!!! Oh, brudder..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

mtgoat666 - 3-14-2015 at 01:29 PM

From this thread, I think 2 things. First, it is likely that fishing killed the marine mammals, perhaps the birds too. Second, DK is an as$hat, again. Does DK just hate animals and the environment? Or does he just think anyone advocating for environmental protections is a socialist trying to punish and tax him?

David K - 3-14-2015 at 01:37 PM

I am for real and not government dictated solutions to real problems.

I am still waiting for the location of "large-scale farms"... :?::light:

blackwolfmt - 3-14-2015 at 02:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I am for real and not government dictated solutions to real problems.

I am still waiting for the location of "large-scale farms"... :?::light:

To assess the impact of agriculture on marine algae, Stanford scientists turned their attention to one of Mexico's most productive coastal farming regions-the Yaqui River Valley, which drains into the Sea of Cortez.

"The Yaqui Valley agricultural area is 556,000 acres [225,000 hectares] of irrigated wheat," said Pamela A. Matson, the dean of Stanford's School of Earth Sciences and co-author of the AGU study. "The entire valley is irrigated and fertilized in very short windows of time during a six-month cycle. The excess water from irrigation runs off through streams and channels into the estuaries, and then out to sea."

This was on the link story I guess this is not a large enough scale for U but like I said Humans ain't doing the ocean any good seems all they do is slowly destroy it Like many other things they come in contact with

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Cisco - 3-14-2015 at 02:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Thanks Cisco, In read your post before... and how secret was it that we blew atomic bombs off Mexico instead of the Marshall Islands? There is nothing on the Internet showing anything 400 miles SW from San Diego... will you get busted for revealing this?


Not at all David. It's been a long time. This is not one of those "If I tell you I will have to kill you" stories.

I found it once when I was looking back a few years ago verifying facts in my ongoing VA battle. Check out Google and ask it for "Operation Dominic". Should come up with all kinds of sites within that single operation. The Baja shoot was one of the last so should be kind of toward the bottom. Operation "Swordfish" was in there somewhere also. If you have a problem with it let me know and I will get into my notes.

They also gave me a very slick piece of paper with all kinds of beautiful islands and palm trees and stuff we blew up and thanked me for participating. It showed locations in the Western Pacific, nothing in the East (guess they didn't want a bunch of peeed-off Mexicans having nuclear radioactivity blowing down on Baja). Although it's in the information now.

And yeah, it was all "super secret" at the time except maybe in a few select bars in Coronado and Olangapo and of course we would never tell a (BURP! EXCUSE ME) soul about it, particularly not our "Love YOU long-time" girls in both cities. The American public and media were not told much about it except for the fact that we were protecting them to the hilt from the (whatever menace we made up for that one).

The reason for this whole deal was that "Little Boy" (one of the thermonuclear devices we just HAD to drop on Japan even though it was not necessary. The Government of the Rising Sun had been defeated and were negotiating how to save face for the Emperor and the Nation" but we had to do it since we didn't really know how effective it would be on humans.

So we did!

Little Boy was not a success from a physics standpoint. The guy's that did it were using slide rules, designed in the early nineteen-forties and was a very inefficient and crude atomic bomb.

It contained a hundred and forty-one pounds of weapons-grade uranium and almost ninety-nine percent harmlessly blew apart upon detonation. Only a couple of pounds went nuclear (fission, splitting atoms) above Hiroshima. (I believe that one detonated at four-hundred feet elevation).

That small quantity of material that did go nuclear destroyed two-thirds of the city's buildings and about eighty thousand INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

Interestingly, the amount of weapons-grade uranium (available almost anywhere today) needed to build a terrorist bomb with the same force as that small amount that went nuclear could fit in a gym bag.

So, that's why we were out there trying to figure out how to kill more humans, whales, dolphins, cities...

Sick chit!






Thank you Cisco

captkw - 3-14-2015 at 03:13 PM

In my studies/reading I found that the truth of the matter is the Japanese had surrenderd 24 hrs before we bombed them..almost all americans say " we dropped the bombs and ended the war and saved many lives" total BS.....that's akin to saying Columbus was the first white man on the north American continent...and had a BIG dinner with a turkey with the Indians...LOL..LOL !! the history books are full of mistakes/lies/false truths....so go back to watching that boob tube and carry on !!

luv2fish - 3-14-2015 at 03:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by blackwolfmt  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by luv2fish  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
With a sea full of life, and life isn't forever, there will be a lot a death... always. We are all here for a relatively short time.

No David, something is up, these dolphins don't just wash up dead. Last week I was reading another article on 150 adult sea turtles found dead at San Ignacio Lagoon. I cant find it however.


Yes, something is up... their time on Earth. Whatever the cause, all we can really do is examine the animals and take water samples... it isn't going to change what's happened. If the cause is man created, like fertilizer runoff (I doubt it, no farms on the gulf coast of Baja anyway) then it will take lot's of effort to get the Mexican farmers to change what they do.



I think someone should throw professor DK out in that water and see what happens, it's human caused and DK is to ignorant to see the writing on the wall,once again


Cmon Dave, you're starting to sound like this fella.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xoUbrRs1k

I think rather than make fun, we should all try to come together for the good of our planet, regardless of partisanship, citizenship, kinship or any other kind of ship. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Cisco - 3-14-2015 at 03:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I am for real and not government dictated solutions to real problems.

I am still waiting for the location of "large-scale farms"... :?::light:



Hi again David.

I really should read the whole thread instead of replying as I come across things. I could have included this in the other response to you.

"Large scale farms" to me includes aquaculture. To a large extent due to profession as a fisherman for most of my life.

The tuna pens are one example.

Regarding Salmon and that industry in the northern climes I am very aware.

Entrepreneur's (def: Screw You, yo Mama, the climate and the long-term health of the planet. I'm a-gonna get MINE. ALL OF IT!) decided this 'fish-farming' thing would be good for their bank account so started up.

I could write an essay regarding the consequences to the east and west coasts of the America's but for simplicity will keep it in Ged's area.

The Entrepreneur's (hereafter called "The Bad Guy's") decided that salmon pens in the 'inside' (SE Alaska) would make them a lot of money. We (The Good Guy's) salmon fishermen of a fresh cold-water (cage-free) product told them to flock-off.

They went to Canada and were able to install hundreds of farms in the numerous, previously beautiful fjords of western canada fronting the inside passage.

Well, the meat came out white as they were not getting their at-sea "real" food. They were getting pellets, chemically induced for growth. So they added another chemical to make the flesh pink as it should be so that when you and your significant other pay a whole lot of money at a class restaurant your salmon dish LOOKS like salmon, not a white chemically impregnated lump.

Then they had a crowding problem (gonna make money? gotta crowd) so the "product" started developing lesions and all kinds of bad fish fungus ugly stuff so they added antibiotics to the mix.

That's what you eat today when you order Salmon. So, if YOUR flesh turns a little pink and you become resistant to antibiotics thank your local fish farmer.

A contained mass of one million salmon in a fjord that does not regularly flush will produce the same amount of effluent as a human city of four hundred thousand people.

This pile of chit lies on the bottom, contaminates the biomass overall and now we see killer whales and other mammals and sea life with wierd lesions and other ailments.

It sucks! Thats a fish farm. Mexico has them.

Read Warrens wonderful book "Beautiful Swimmers" regarding the Chesapeake Bay. Written I believe in 1977 it predicted what was going to happen to the bay. And it has.

Ten or twelve years ago I decided to go look at the Bay and the whole Eastern Seaboard as I had never been there. Bought a boat in Pensacola and spent seven years wandering around the Caribbean, Bahamas and U.S. (up and down several times) inside and outside to DelMarva.

Warren was right, it's gone. It didn't have to be, we were warned and we are now. Same things that happened there are happening here. We're screwed! No reason to debate. Carry-on, we're flocked.

Oh, Willapa just moved their oyster industry to Hawaii. Could no longer (after more than a hundred years) raise spat due to ocean acidification.


SFandH - 3-14-2015 at 03:49 PM

Here's more on the research nomad blackwolfmt cited. Direct from the Stanford University website. Clear evidence that Mex SoC coastal farming is causing harmful algae blooms.

Ocean ecosystems plagued by agricultural runoff

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/march16/gulf-030905.html

The study is 10 years old. Is the situation better, worse, or the same. I'd bet on worse, but................

David K - 3-14-2015 at 04:15 PM

Thank you!

So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.

I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms, or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?

Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???

luv2fish - 3-14-2015 at 04:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cisco  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I am for real and not government dictated solutions to real problems.

I am still waiting for the location of "large-scale farms"... :?::light:



Hi again David.

I really should read the whole thread instead of replying as I come across things. I could have included this in the other response to you.

"Large scale farms" to me includes aquaculture. To a large extent due to profession as a fisherman for most of my life.

The tuna pens are one example.

Regarding Salmon and that industry in the northern climes I am very aware.

Entrepreneur's (def: Screw You, yo Mama, the climate and the long-term health of the planet. I'm a-gonna get MINE. ALL OF IT!) decided this 'fish-farming' thing would be good for their bank account so started up.

I could write an essay regarding the consequences to the east and west coasts of the America's but for simplicity will keep it in Ged's area.

The Entrepreneur's (hereafter called "The Bad Guy's") decided that salmon pens in the 'inside' (SE Alaska) would make them a lot of money. We (The Good Guy's) salmon fishermen of a fresh cold-water (cage-free) product told them to flock-off.

They went to Canada and were able to install hundreds of farms in the numerous, previously beautiful fjords of western canada fronting the inside passage.

Well, the meat came out white as they were not getting their at-sea "real" food. They were getting pellets, chemically induced for growth. So they added another chemical to make the flesh pink as it should be so that when you and your significant other pay a whole lot of money at a class restaurant your salmon dish LOOKS like salmon, not a white chemically impregnated lump.

Then they had a crowding problem (gonna make money? gotta crowd) so the "product" started developing lesions and all kinds of bad fish fungus ugly stuff so they added antibiotics to the mix.

That's what you eat today when you order Salmon. So, if YOUR flesh turns a little pink and you become resistant to antibiotics thank your local fish farmer.

A contained mass of one million salmon in a fjord that does not regularly flush will produce the same amount of effluent as a human city of four hundred thousand people.

This pile of chit lies on the bottom, contaminates the biomass overall and now we see killer whales and other mammals and sea life with wierd lesions and other ailments.

It sucks! Thats a fish farm. Mexico has them.

Read Warrens wonderful book "Beautiful Swimmers" regarding the Chesapeake Bay. Written I believe in 1977 it predicted what was going to happen to the bay. And it has.

Ten or twelve years ago I decided to go look at the Bay and the whole Eastern Seaboard as I had never been there. Bought a boat in Pensacola and spent seven years wandering around the Caribbean, Bahamas and U.S. (up and down several times) inside and outside to DelMarva.

Warren was right, it's gone. It didn't have to be, we were warned and we are now. Same things that happened there are happening here. We're screwed! No reason to debate. Carry-on, we're flocked.

Oh, Willapa just moved their oyster industry to Hawaii. Could no longer (after more than a hundred years) raise spat due to ocean acidification.



Interesting stuff, we always believed that eating fresh seafood was good for our health, now with so much " Sustainable " farming of different products we need to rethink what we eat.

https://www.organicconsumers.org/old_articles/madcow/fish190...

blackwolfmt - 3-14-2015 at 05:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Thank you!

So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.

I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms, or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?

Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???



Don't Ya think the toxins kinda move through out the SOC, And the Yaqui isn't the only problem, I'll bet your one of them guys who sprays his fruit tree's with pesticides and says Where are the humming birds??

blackwolfmt - 3-14-2015 at 05:17 PM

I thought this was a great article on the decline of SOC fish

http://seawatch.org/reports/sea_of_cortez.php

---

Cisco - 3-14-2015 at 05:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Thank you!

So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.

I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms, or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?

Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???



Experience is a hard teacher. She gives the test first, the lesson afterward.
Anonymous

David K - 3-14-2015 at 05:27 PM

I am a curious person and like to know the facts, rather than jump to emotional quick theories. No excuse for using DDT or whatever is bad, but to really find the ACTUAL reason for dying dolphins and boobies I want more data. Why are no dolphins and boobies washing up on mainland beaches like they are near San Felipe, if the mainland farms are to blame?

---

Cisco - 3-14-2015 at 06:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I am a curious person and like to know the facts, rather than jump to emotional quick theories. No excuse for using DDT or whatever is bad, but to really find the ACTUAL reason for dying dolphins and boobies I want more data. Why are no dolphins and boobies washing up on mainland beaches like they are near San Felipe, if the mainland farms are to blame?


Sometimes it takes awhile to figure it out David.

No idea personally but perhaps the confined waters as opposed to open ocean shores has something to do with it. As the pollution continues perhaps the ocean will have enough crap in it to kill as the northern gulf does.

It is happening in Willapa as I indicated in another post.

May be a "secret" ingredient also as I learned when I was investigating the Chesapeake.

I wandered the entire bay, all of the estuarine systems, rivers, sloughs,...from Blackwater's digs in the south to the canal and up and down the Potomac.

The Bay is an enclosed system although it is HUGE. With only the canal at the north end and Hampton Roads in the south it really cannot fill and empty completely or correctly on a daily basis. Just too much water to move.

So, although agriculture has not increased on the bay the availability of cheap on the water homesites that are now (due to our system of roadways) available to allow someone to work in D.C. or Richmond, Norfolk...and live on the water of the Northern Neck, utilizing pesticides, septic tanks, all kinds of cleaners, detergents...all of which end up in The Bay make for a problem.

What population increase has the northern SOC experienced? Has the loss of Colorado 'flushing' water hurt it?

These people really don't give a damn. I kept hearing that the "small" amount of their footprint doesn't make a difference. Hmm. How about a million and half 'new' footprints in the last two decades???

I stood on a fuel dock at c-ckrell's neck, a mile SW of Reedville, VA and watched the operator, he's a crabber also, should be environmentally conscious to why he's not catching crabs like he used to (lot's of BS explanations for that one also) pump 85 gallons of bad fuel into The Bay from a boat he had just fueled that didn't even get out of sight after fueling before quitting and being towed back to the fuel dock.

"That little bit of fuel in this big bay don't make no nevermind". Then he lit up a cigarette and I ran for it. Stench of fuel everywhere. That's the attitude and it's killed the bay.

Now for the "more later" and the "secret ingredient".

As I was standing on that fuel dock I looked east at the Omega Protein reduction plant and it's aircraft spotter field and it hit me. Flash, lightning, dumb chit why didn't you see it before kind of revelation.

Omega Protein, out of Houston, TX (and I can tell 100 pages on this one but for our purposes here is the short deal) load millions of tons of Menhaden into surplus Navy refer ships, bring them here, unload and reduce them. They use planes to spot schools as we do on the West coast for bait fish or sticking broadbill.

They have fished out the Chesapeake and now must make longer trips outside The Bay and into the Atlantic for their Menhaden.

Here's whats up.

Menhaden are a very oily fish. When you take your fish oil pill you are ingesting Menhaden probably, they are the largest supplier. They are reduced for paint additives, fertilizers, cat foods, FISH FOOD in pellet form for aquaculture, human health oils as mentioned and....

The Secret Ingredient:

Menhaden are omnivorous filter feeders. They kept The Bay clean and oxygenated so we did not notice the additional influx of humans chit and chemicals into The Bay.

Omega took ALL of the fish from The Bay. Now there are algal blooms, large areas of un-oxygenated water killing oysters, crabs, clams, scallops,....

Because of a slight increase in human pollution and a terribly short-sighted LARGE increase of human greed by Texas removing this one barrier to disaster of The Bay the dominoes fell.

The Bay, is NO MORE!










David K - 3-14-2015 at 06:56 PM

Thank you Cisco!:bounce:

motoged - 3-15-2015 at 10:41 AM

Cisco,
Thanks for the personal and factual info.....it certainly provides some meat to the recognition that our consumerism and its effects are unbridled....much of the time.

As for the aquaculture in the Inside Passage in BC....sea lice thrived in the fish farms to an extent where they were infecting wild salmon on their migratory routes and creating significant problems not experienced prior to fish farms.

AKgringo - 3-15-2015 at 12:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I am a curious person and like to know the facts, rather than jump to emotional quick theories. No excuse for using DDT or whatever is bad, but to really find the ACTUAL reason for dying dolphins and boobies I want more data. Why are no dolphins and boobies washing up on mainland beaches like they are near San Felipe, if the mainland farms are to blame?



Spring break is coming up. You are liable to see more 'boobies' on the beach than normal!

David K - 3-15-2015 at 12:08 PM

Yes, but do they have BLUE feet???:biggrin:

AKgringo - 3-15-2015 at 12:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Yes, but do they have BLUE feet???:biggrin:


Maybe, is the water cold?

The importance of "WE"

Cisco - 3-15-2015 at 03:47 PM



[Edited on 3-15-2015 by Cisco]


I hate this "new" server.


[Edited on 3-15-2015 by Cisco]

The importance of WE

Cisco - 3-15-2015 at 03:53 PM

Nope!

Still will not post copied material from my notes, not website stuff.

[Edited on 3-15-2015 by Cisco]

Welcome & thanks for posting

Whale-ista - 3-15-2015 at 04:04 PM

Happy to have you join us and offer your perspectives- sorry it is on a morbid topic.

I was in Bahia in 1995 and there were 2 rescued pelican chicks at the sea turtle facility (not sure if it's still there?).

These 2 chicks had been rescued from a nearby island- and they were the ONLY chicks to survive that year after two epic "el ninyo" events (avoiding the special character problem) that prevented the parents from finding enough food to keep chicks alive.

We are now "officially" in an ENSO event- but one that is hot & dry vs. hot & wet. Animals all over the Pacific are suffering and dying from lack of food. Sea lions and seals are being rescued in record #s all along the CA coast.

Yes this is a "natural" cycle of events. But add to that long-term overfishing of sardines, by-catch of other species, pollution, collisions, etc. etc. and things aren't quite as "natural" as they have been in the past when these die-offs also occurred. Today, animals can't recover as quickly, and their populations are also smaller.

Yes, humans are "part of nature." But not always for the better when it comes to survival of many fish, marine mammals etc.
Quote: Originally posted by Bajasun222  
This is my first post on Baja Nomads. We have lived in the Punta Bufeo area for 14 years and we have never experienced as many dead dolphins and sea birds as we have in the last two months. About 4-5 weeks ago we loaded more than 200 birds (blue-footed Boobies, pelicans, shore birds, cormorants) out to the desert and 10 dolphins. There are more than 15 dead dolphins in about a 1 mile stretch that we didn't haul. One dolphin just washed in with a tight nylon rope around its' belly and 20' more of rope behind it.....we saw the red tide in late January/early February. It was bad. But what I can't explain is why only some birds, no seagulls, were affected, no dead fish, and only one seal? We had so many panga's in the water it looked like a city. It seems like a combination of man and nature. We are hoping the moratorium on commercial fishing will be enforced and nature will take her course. Thanks for allowing me to share.

Sea of Cortez currents/tidal flow...it's complicated

Whale-ista - 3-15-2015 at 04:32 PM

David- I can understand why you have questions/doubts about where these potentially toxic ag wastes wind up- many people do.

The lead researcher on the cruise I did last year in the North Pacific, (he's based out of Monterey) has studied the currents in the SoC. He has tremendous respect for how complicated they are- and he's done his research for decades.

They flow one direction in winter, another in summer, get mixed around islands, and then add a few hurricanes etc. to the mix and it gets complex.

What most agree on: There's a lot of transport of agricultural waste etc. throughout the Sea that no one can accurately track without a lot more research- and it's difficult to get funding to do that, to really understand what's going on

Here's an excerpt from a book that gives a glimpse of these complex tidal interactions:


[img]
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Thank you!



So, these farms are not in Baja, but in the Yaqui River system on the mainland, southern half of the gulf and closer to the open Pacific.



I wonder why mass die-offs in the San Felipe-Gonzaga area, 100's of miles north and on the opposite coast, are noted but none near the actual farms, or on mainland beaches, or in southern Baja coasts?



Don't you wonder why this is, IF the farms are at fault... vs. other Natural causes???



David K - 3-15-2015 at 05:16 PM

How about a link to that book? Thank you!

Whale-ista - 3-15-2015 at 06:50 PM

Book on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Island-Biogeography-Sea-Cortez-Case/dp...

Cisco - 3-16-2015 at 03:38 PM

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-31903778#

freediverbrian - 3-16-2015 at 05:10 PM

Why does it all come down to an " either - or fight" it is all kinds of reasons, some are man made some natural the question should be what can WE do to prevent futher harm OUR seas

motoged - 3-16-2015 at 06:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by freediverbrian  
Why does it all come down to an " either - or fight" it is all kinds of reasons, some are man made some natural the question should be what can WE do to prevent futher harm OUR seas


I agree....the limiting view of "either-or" is so limiting....there are so many points in between that the binary view is missing out on a lot of possibilities..... :light:

bajabuddha - 3-16-2015 at 08:37 PM

I've learned there are the "Us OR Them" and the "Us AND Them" mentality in this world. Unfortunately, the "Us AND Them are those gawl-darned Lib-tards trying to include everybody into the equation (yours truly included), not just the "Better Right vs. Wrong"-s, who would have all their detractors sent back to Mexico, Africa, or Azzholistan if they can't conform to the righteous norm (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant).