BajaNomad - Making the transition to Baja: what was most challenging, then vs. now?

Making the transition to Baja: what was most challenging, then vs. now?

Whale-ista - 4-21-2015 at 11:39 AM

I realize this is a broad topic, but I haven't seen it come up before, at least asked in this way.

I'm curious what FT Baja residents remember as being the most challenging part of leaving their prior home, when they made the move to live SOB.

Was it moving away from friends? Famiily? Conveniences of "city life"?
What items did you import that could have been left home vs. things used most often?

Also- what did you find improved (or got worse) over time as you settled in?

I read posts about missing good Internet service, access to certain products, etc. I also read how much people enjoy life in Baja, making new friends, volunteering etc.

So- if you are a resident, what can you share that may help people considering making the move? What would you do differently- or definitely do again?

And what has made living in Baja special for you?

Thanks for your feedback...

shari - 4-21-2015 at 12:00 PM

good topic Lori...I was one of the many people that traveled down to Baja every year and my visits got longer and longer and it was harder and harder to go back north every time. I found it was like living with dual personalities and never really felt at home in either place. When in Canada, I was constantly thinking about Baja, making lists, packing etc. When in Baja, I dreaded the day I had to leave.One good canuck friend commented...why dont you just move there..you aren't really here anyway and he was right....baja had stolen my heart!

I had all the normal fears about leaving one's birth country but when I finally made the move, life became much easier & happier...no more traveling back and forth, packing and unpacking. I had everything in one place and could focus on making a life here..planting a garden, fixing up a house etc. My daughter enrolled in school and I got a job teaching English at the university. Yes, the income is drastically lower but so was the cost of living and one cant put a price on happiness eh.

I did miss my friends & family, but made new ones and had a hard time finding books in english but people brought me books and stuff I missed like maple syrup. One learns to adjust and begins to simply live the life as others do in your neighbourhood...eat what is available shopping locally. I ended up marrying an amazing mexican man that has enriched my life and taught me so much about being human and raising a bi-cultural daughter. I never ever regretted moving here.

I am blessed to live in an incredibly beautiful place that I could never afford NOB and still giggle at the thought I can go to whatever beach I want any day of the week, all year round!!! I love the pace and low stress level and the smiles on the village folk all around me. I guess it is like stepping back in time here...a time I revel in.

I dont miss the traffic, all the rules and regulations, the stress, the silly huge stores with a kazillion choices for every product, all the pasty faces, rain & snow.

I brought only a couple of my Pendleton blankets and miss the native art I had. Most things I bought here in segundas and started fresh. I have really changed as a person and enjoy life in the slow lane now. I wish I had done it years before. Yes there are lots of cultural challenges like learning the language and mexican ways, and there are many things we cant wrap our heads around culturally but I learned to have an open mind, try to understand and accept their ways of doing things. I now live on Mexican time and love it!

Whale-ista - 4-21-2015 at 12:42 PM

thank you Shari- I appreciate your insights. You are a hard worker- you've accomplished so much in Baja and seem to be having so much fun doing so!

I hope others will also offer their experiences/ideas/suggestions.

rts551 - 4-21-2015 at 01:03 PM

As you get older, access to medical care. I notice that many head north when a major medical issue hits.

Alm - 4-21-2015 at 02:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

As you get older, access to medical care.

This, and groceries. Was a problem back then, and hasn't got much better in past decade.

I have to admit that the very question puzzles me: What was most challenging, then vs now? Who moved "then", won't have first-hand experience in "now". And vice versa. Unless you've discovered a time machine. Observations of transition challenges "now" by somebody who moved "then" will be indirect and very subjective - his recollections of "then" will be incomplete and inaccurate, and perception has changed a lot from "then" to "now".

J.P. - 4-21-2015 at 04:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

As you get older, access to medical care.

Then we sold everything in the U.S. and moved here full time.
Now we have created a part time residence up there/ U.S. and when we have medical issues we go up there and stay its a lot more convenient and we are really enjoying the time we spend up there at this point in life I wouldn't be too disappointed if I had to stay in either place , But on the other hand why worry about it.

Whale-ista - 4-21-2015 at 04:33 PM

Thanks for the comment re:healthcare. That definitely is an issue for many over time.

Alm- I agree, recollections change. So do people's sense of what's important once they live in a new place and get out of their routine and habits.

I've met people who love Baja, and will never leave (barring health issues, as mentioned above).

I've also met others who never fully adjust, and return back to their previous homes to be closer to family, friends, etc.

Let me phrase my question another way: after moving and living in Baja for a period of time, and looking back at the process and your current life: what have you learned?

Would you do anything differently - or exactly the same- if you did it over again?

BajaBlanca - 4-21-2015 at 04:58 PM

Most challenging for me was, and is, the language. Of course I speak it well but I still don't feel fluent LOL Spanish is radically different from Portuguese and I thought it would be easier - it ain't!

I thought I would be bored and brought down hundreds of books and many jigsaw puzzles- hahaha I have read a lot but not nearly as much as I thought I would and the puzzles are gathering dust and have NEVER even been done.

At first we brought down lots of goodies - I brought Brazilian goodies and Les still brings down some of his favorite European goodies - mostly because his kids keep him supplied come Christmas time!

Like Shari mentioned, there are things that one will never get their minds around but I am sure they think we are just as odd - no one in town understands why Les almost never washes his pick up. Trust me on this - that is a major NO NO in Baja, and unfathomable to most Mexicans.

Healthcare access as one ages is very important and remains a huge impasse where we live.

Fun topic!

rts551 - 4-21-2015 at 05:41 PM

We also kept a part-time residence in the US. I know of people who needed to be treated for cancer or needed an operation and had to lease something in the US during treatment.

Alm - 4-21-2015 at 06:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista

So do {change} people's sense of what's important once they live in a new place and get out of their routine and habits.

Very quickly! Our environment NOB is an artificial one, influenced by population density, marketing and brainwashing. Once you're out, it wears off quickly. This void, however, may be filled with nothing, arrested development, Baja-variety neanderthal. When you're neither here nor there, like snowbirds, all these effects are less pronounced.

Quote:

after moving and living in Baja for a period of time, and looking back at the process and your current life: what have you learned?

Not Spanish for sure. Being in Baja didn't help much, anyway. Language can't be learned by simply being there, unless you're 3 year old. It's a hard work when you're adult over 50.

Quote:

Would you do anything differently - or exactly the same- if you did it over again?

Still dreaming about that time machine, are you?

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Alm]

Whale-ista - 4-21-2015 at 08:08 PM

Thanks Blanca- not surprised to hear your books/puzzles didn't get used. You and Les like to travel, socialize, run your B&B and keep busy.

You are also very busy teaching English, cleaning up La Bocana, and supporting students who want to go to college. Whew- so much energy!

As for learning Spanish or any other language- I had a new student in class today: 85 years young, still working on learning more about computers (I call my class "CSL"- computers as a second language).

She has trouble seeing the computer screen, but keeps working to improve her skills.

Anyone who keeps exploring, asking questions, learning- and teaching- keeps growing throughout life, in or out of a traditional classroom.

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Whale-ista]

Gulliver - 4-21-2015 at 08:26 PM

I'm a half timer and I don't see that changing soon. Why am I here? I love the weather. Winters in the San Juan islands really get to me. Housing and utilities are dirt cheap down here. I'm not a food person so I get along fine with ordinary local fare. The people are sweet and hard working and honest. And they put up with my stupid language skills. And laugh at my mangled jokes. I love the lizards and Geckos and even the occasional snake. I love riding up into the hills West of Mulege and hanging out with the ranch families at the end of horrible roads.

Things that drive me nuts?

I do stuff and always have and always will. Motorcycling and ham radio and fixing things and building things. I can't get ANYTHING down here without some giant logistical hassle and bugging my friends to bring things down. I needed one little two dollar part for my ham station. It took a month and six phone calls and a friend to drop it off. Why can't I buy stuff on line and get it delivered to my door? My partner ordered a small thing from AliBaba as a test. It took nine weeks to get it. And having anything but an envelope sent from the states is a joke. Gets stolen half the time and takes five weeks if it gets here at all. I'm horrified by the gringo bar crowd that seems to have settled in down here. People I wouldn't want to live next to up North. I hope the locals don't think we're all so low class.

I can deal with the power going off randomly. The water system likewise. The comical road repairs and priorities. It's a poor country and I accept that. The politics are sane and honest compared to the U.S. I don't give a rip about killing fish or drinking so that's a wash.

Unlike some of my friends, I am looking forward to heading North in a couple of weeks. I miss my machine shop, my steam launch and even mowing my lawn. I get tired of looking at dirt all the time. I miss Amazon and Harbor Freight.

In the Fall I will be very happy to flee the drizzle and start the wander South. No easy answers from me.

mtgoat666 - 4-21-2015 at 09:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

Our environment NOB is an artificial one, influenced by population density, marketing and brainwashing.

Sounds like you are repeating hippie brain washing!

What you so simplisticly stated can be equally said about mexico and baja, for urban and rural areas. Silly hogwash to think the simple quaint peasants of Baja are not living in a plastic world, spending their few meager pesos on the shiny baubles and fast foods they see on TV.

Everyone has been assimilated into the collective. Even hippies (and retirees) that profess their wisened independence from USA suburban rat race conformity of Madison Avenue plastic life are just additional cogs in the machine acting out a role scripted by an unseen collective puppet master.

Don't worry, be happy!

Peace out!

:bounce:

Alm - 4-21-2015 at 11:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Silly hogwash to think the simple quaint peasants of Baja are not living in a plastic world, spending their few meager pesos on the shiny baubles and fast foods they see on TV.

Their country has been taken same as ours. I would say - more than ours. To make choices you must have knowledge and disposable income, and they don't have any.

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Alm]

Hook - 4-22-2015 at 05:57 AM

"I can't get ANYTHING down here without some giant logistical hassle and bugging my friends to bring things down. I needed one little two dollar part for my ham station. It took a month and six phone calls and a friend to drop it off. Why can't I buy stuff on line and get it delivered to my door? My partner ordered a small thing from AliBaba as a test. It took nine weeks to get it. And having anything but an envelope sent from the states is a joke. Gets stolen half the time and takes five weeks if it gets here at all."

*****************

I agree, this is the most astounding thing about living down here, and I live in an area much closer to the border and much more developed than Mulege. We have to resort to pony express style deliveries from gringos going north and south.

Sure, if you are living in a rented trailer on the most meager of incomes, you can find everything to get by. But if you have a few toys like a boat, cars, an ATV, household appliances and power equipment for gardening, you need the occasional part and it's maddening how poor the postal system is. The private courier services are a bit better, but SOOO expensive. Say what? Wages are 1/10 of the US. Fuel has only recently gotten more expensive. It makes no sense.

I'd willingly pay the 16% IVA on having stuff shipped down, plus a reasonably amount for carriage costs (like Fedex and UPS give you) but it's obscene how often products ordered just "disappear" into the system. Anything that manages to arrive is measured in weeks, yes weeks!

I sometimes think there is a covenant between the postal union and the Mexican oligarchs, with their monopolies, to prevent access to easily delivered goods from outside the country. It's one of the biggest things keeping the Mexican people down. True free exchange of goods would create untold jobs and bring the price of internally produced products down, in order to compete. Too much graft, adds to the cost of everything.

I have many liberal leanings, especially socially, but all it takes is a few years down here to realize how great a largely free market system like the U.S. and Canada is. Sure, our lives and our govt. are run by corporations, NOB. But at least they compete against each other for our dollar and it creates great economies.

Geez, I can't even get decent flour down here, for artisan breads. Ferget finding rye flour.

Admittedly, I am a bit of a foodie and have a few toys, so these gripes will seem insignificant to many.

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Hook]

Gulliver - 4-22-2015 at 06:28 AM

Yeah, the bread here is tragic. But it's not a bread culture so I'm resigned to eating sponge. But why can't I buy a stinking tire for my motorcycle? Like are we protecting the Mexican motorcycle tire industry? There isn't any such animal.

I too gladly pay the 16% IVA. Taxes 'make the world go round'. Given the miserable tax base and the almost universal tax avoidance, a lot gets done if you wait a bit. But it is, indeed, a major drag on the economy here that they are sooo far behind the times on buying things on line.

Stateside I live on a small island and buying things is pretty much like here in Mulege. One grocery store and one small hardware store. But I have an internet connection and a U.P.S. truck comes by every day. Problem solved.

There are shippers who will receive a package at their San Diego address and for 25% take care of the IVA and deliver it to a location here. I will have to bite the bullet and start using them.

On the other hand, it's shaping up to be another beautiful day here in Floodlandia. (Another entertaining issue.) And NOT one that Mexico caused. Thank you for all the SUV farts.

willyAirstream - 4-22-2015 at 06:48 AM

I am working on a full post for this thread, but have to jump in now.
Motorcycle tires and parts are very easy to get here. You are new here, but once you get to know the locals, you can find everything you need. Tires are available at the big tire store in Loreto via email and Baja Pak, 3 days. Loius at the tire shop by light house road can also get most tires for cars, motos and off road. Danni can get tires from Ensenadia, 4 days. And FB classifieds are another great source. Contrary to rumors, tires are cheaper here than usa places such as tire rack. I buy tires and tubes often.

rhintransit - 4-22-2015 at 07:07 AM

Been here for almost 10 years. Lived in a relatively isolated off grid palapa. Lived "in town" Loreto. Now live in Gringolandia Loreto Bay, Nopolo. It's all a transition, what works now vs what works in a few years.
Agree, inability to get what one needs for life above bare necessities is the major adjustment. I look forward to my occasional trip NOB, or as I call it, the land of stuff. I also dearly miss culture, a lack I fill by frequent travel. it would also be nice to be able to fly somewhere without driving for many hours, overnighting coming and going, etc.
Lots of positives, but I think you were asking the negatives/challenges. Will mention one..the absolutely liberating effect of not having stuff...watery paint plus crappy brushes plus weird construction minus decent masking tape equals a wonderful lowering of standards. It's not the Sistine Chapel.
What would I have done differently? Primary thing would have been to haul down a trailer or fifth wheel rather than really roughing it the years I worked on the palapa. Other than that, like I said, it's all a fine tuning process..growth potential.

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by rhintransit]

Cliffy - 4-22-2015 at 07:39 AM

Interesting thread
It seems to say that what some (most) NOB would call moving into a much lower standard of living, to those who have done it, refer to to it as a very liberating experience.

Gulliver - 4-22-2015 at 08:27 AM

It depends in what you are moving from. If you are moving down here from a fairly high pressure career with lots of belongings and from a high population density, I can see that it would be incredibly liberating. And maybe a bit of a shock.

I have been tapering off for twenty years so the situation down here hasn't seemed that different. I know the police up there and we get along. Same down here. My neighbors up there are my friends and I haven't so much as lost a rake out of my yard in years. Same here. I leave the keys in my bike when I'm in the village up there. Same here.

I've never lived in a big city so I can't compare. Been self employed for twenty years so running my life at my own pace isn't any change at all.

I need to work on my Spanish. I sound like a retard. The locals seem entertained and not offended but I can do better.

sancho - 4-22-2015 at 08:59 AM

There are some memorable quotes here, 'arrested development,
Baja variety Neanderthal, Hippie brainwashing, lower standard
of living liberating', I have enjoyed reading this thread, good
insight

rts551 - 4-22-2015 at 09:07 AM

Too bad there s not a way to get "the other side of the story". Those who could not take it and moved somewhere else. Asking the question here is kinda like bringing up the question of crime in Mexico.

Gulliver - 4-22-2015 at 09:48 AM

The couple we bought from here claimed to be moving back to the states full time due to concerns over access to specialized health care. They were 85 and 75. I suspect that repeated cleanups and serious damage from the flooding may have had more to do with it. There have been quite a few in Mulege whom have found the tremendous increase in flood frequency to be too much to deal with.

We have made out peace with it all but ask me again after a few more such events.

Alm - 4-22-2015 at 11:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Interesting thread
It seems to say that what some (most) NOB would call moving into a much lower standard of living, to those who have done it, refer to to it as a very liberating experience.

It's not that simple.
Less choice and lower quality of almost everything is one part. Living with fewer rules and restrictions is another. Being able to live better on less money is another aspect yet.

This latter part is complicated as well, some things here cost more, so if you "have" to have it, then you're spending same much as NOB, or have to deal with pains of pony express because many items are not available locally. Doesn't have to be high-ticket items, even somebody living in a small shack on a leased land may need medications or maintain a certain diet.
Whale-ista opened a too broad topic, a lot depends on who is immigrating, not just "then" vs "now".

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Alm]

Cliffy - 4-22-2015 at 01:51 PM

Unfortunately I know just enough Spanish to get myself into trouble.

Gulliver - 4-22-2015 at 01:55 PM

I have gotten in sooo much trouble trying to ask about eggs in the market. And asking about chilies is fraught with possibilities.

sancho - 4-22-2015 at 02:12 PM

One does early on, learn the old standby huevos/chile humor.
A Mex aquaintence of mine here in Ca, was telling me of his Mex
hometown of Guanajuato and their famous Museum of Mommies, after repeating himself, getting a bit worked up
that I couldn't grasp the Mommie part, I realized he was
referring to the somewhat famous Museum of Mummies
in Guanajuato

Whale-ista - 4-22-2015 at 05:23 PM

So, to summarize: it seems the challenges/adjustments include:
- access to specialized healthcare
- language acquisition (or lack thereof)
- cultural differences
- access to certain replacement parts (until you get to know the locals)
- limited food/ingredient choices
- ...and no reliable shipping/delivery/mail service to help w/2 previous points

Benefits:
- inexpensive, lower cost of living
- great weather, fishing, beaches
- fewer people/less traffic
- fewer regulations/restrictions
- slower pace of life/less stress

And I would add:
- incredible natural beauty on land, sea & air

Thanks to all who commented. I appreciate the feedback.

Not looking for "right/wrong" answers- just curious about people's experiences while living as "transplants" in Baja.

MulegeAL - 4-22-2015 at 06:47 PM

Whale-i,

Park all the new brainbound stuff you just learned for a minute...

Baja is a decision of the heart.

That's all you really need to figure out if it's the right place for you. The rest is easy, or irrelevant.

vandenberg - 4-22-2015 at 07:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MulegeAL

Whale-i,

Park all the new brainbound stuff you just learned for a minute...

Baja is a decision of the heart.

That's all you really need to figure out if it's the right place for you. The rest is easy, or irrelevant.

Right place for this old codger.
Never a minute of regret!!
:spingrin:

Whale-ista - 4-30-2015 at 06:55 AM

Willy-

Did you finish the other post? I'm interested in reading your experiences.

Quote: Originally posted by willyAirstream

I am working on a full post for this thread, but have to jump in now.
Motorcycle tires and parts are very easy to get here. You are new here, but once you get to know the locals, you can find everything you need. Tires are available at the big tire store in Loreto via email and Baja Pak, 3 days. Loius at the tire shop by light house road can also get most tires for cars, motos and off road. Danni can get tires from Ensenadia, 4 days. And FB classifieds are another great source. Contrary to rumors, tires are cheaper here than usa places such as tire rack. I buy tires and tubes often.

willyAirstream - 4-30-2015 at 07:07 AM

Nudge acknowledged

I will get back to it.

Alm - 5-1-2015 at 04:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista

So, to summarize: it seems the challenges/adjustments include:
- access to specialized healthcare...

Correction: Access to any healthcare.
In places like Mulege, BA, BOLA, a real hospital is many-many hours away. A decent pharmacy is usually also not around the corner.

Whale-ista - 5-1-2015 at 04:39 PM

thanks- look forward to it

Quote: Originally posted by willyAirstream

Nudge acknowledged

I will get back to it.

Alan - 5-1-2015 at 06:34 PM

"Manana - The busiest day in Mexico! Manana does NOT mean tomorrow. It only means Not Today!

rts551 - 5-1-2015 at 07:11 PM

Also remember. Responses are very one sided. Not many, if any, from someone who came. did not like it, and left.

I would also add, absence from family, especially grandkids (for those of us that have them).

Alm - 5-1-2015 at 07:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Also remember. Responses are very one sided. Not many, if any, from someone who came. did not like it, and left.

True. This would be an academic debate though - as you noted, we don't hear from those that are not here, no pun intended.

I guess most of reported "cons" or "challenges" would still be the same, for those who left.

Also, traveling few hundred miles to see a dentist - what an adventure...

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2015 at 08:37 AM

Back then the most difficult thing was convincing my girlfriend to move to Baja with me. Nowadays its convincing my wife not to go back to Canada :lol:

[Edited on 5-2-2015 by durrelllrobert]

Udo - 5-2-2015 at 10:47 AM

Thanks for chiming in here, Frank!

It's nice to hear from someone on the mainland, because we all assume everyone on this board is about Baja.

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch

I hope you all don't mind me chipping in here.
Peace,
Frank

Alm - 5-2-2015 at 11:07 AM

The only reason North-Central Baja is better for me than Mainland, is dry climate and proximity to sea. On the Mainland it's either this, or that. In rare places where you can have both, it becomes too touristy and densely populated.

Whale-ista - 5-2-2015 at 11:19 AM

thank you Frank- your perspective & experiences are appreciated.

I admire your family's tenacity in finding a new life in Mexico. I've read your blog so know a little about what happened with housing etc. in other cities on the mainland. (Didn't know about the healthcare problems in US and MX.)

Re:healthcare- I second your observations re:personal care/interest from physicians in MX. I experienced that while living in Ensenada- I recall one doctor who was willing to wait for me to arrive and meet him, late on a Friday afternoon, examine me, refer me for bloodwork, prescribe meds etc. then meet again over the weekend for another evaluation- All for a fraction of the cost of US procedures/office visits etc.

Another issue that impacts many of us on this board: family responsibilities. You mentioned raising children. Others are grandparents, and miss grandkids.

My situation is: I'm staying in US (for now) to be close to my father. He's 87 yrs old, a bit forgetful, and was just admitted to the hospital a few days ago (fortunately nothing serious- but needing some extra care/observation).

I'm his only child still living nearby (2 others live out of state, 1 in S. Africa), so I stay close by, check on his health, and visit him, often with the poodle (she's a good lap dog).

So- thanks again for your remarks, and the details you have provided in your blog. I enjoy learning more about various experiences living out of the US, and your comments helped!

Alm - 5-2-2015 at 03:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista

I've read your blog so know a little about what happened with housing etc. in other cities on the mainland.

I'm curious, what happened - Mexican revolution ?

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2015 at 03:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote: Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Back then the most difficult thing was convincing my girlfriend to move to Baja with me. Nowadays its convincing my wife not to go back to Canada :lol:

[Edited on 5-2-2015 by durrelllrobert]

Well, what's your girlfriend's stance?

Girlfriend went NOB for breast cancer surgery and never returned. Canadian wife was already here operating a restaurant when I met her and eventually married her. She only wants to go back to Canada twice a year to visit her family for a month or more and it's my contention that they have lots of money and should come here to visit. We have plenty of room and can pick them up at the SD airport anytime.

Whale-ista - 5-2-2015 at 03:49 PM

Bob- I understand the reluctance of many people to visit Baja. Not always due to their finances, more their (mis)understanding of safety, language and life in general in MX.

My current strategy: help them make the first trip go as smoothly/safely as possible. Last month I coordinated with a group of friends/famiily to travel from San Diego to San Ignacio. They were so excited by the experience we have already set a return date for 2016- perhaps with a larger group.

I know, not ideal for everyone who lives in Baja to serve as "tour guide," but I hope the time I put in now will make it more likely to have visitors & fellow travellers join me in the future, when I'm spending more time SOB.