BajaNomad

The proposed San Ignacio Lagoon Salt Works. What happened

rts551 - 4-28-2015 at 05:05 PM

https://justiceinmexico.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/11-mobil...

rts551 - 4-28-2015 at 05:08 PM

The end result and President Zedillo's statement

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/03/news/mn-5011

Whale-ista - 4-28-2015 at 06:28 PM

Thank you for the history & reminder of that battle.

Beautiful places and the wild animals we admire that live in them sometimes need a little help.

Animals that we admire

MrBillM - 4-28-2015 at 07:19 PM

Right at the top of MY list is ...................

the COW.

Or Steer.

Which has provided thousands of superb meals through the years.

Of course, the PIG has its place, too.

Bacon is hard to beat.

4x4abc - 4-28-2015 at 10:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
https://justiceinmexico.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/11-mobil...


at least the author is honest about organizing an exemplary fight.

Wasn't really about the whales: "The expansion .... might have disrupted the whales' migration patterns and behavior."

might have? since when swim whales through the desert?

couldn't be clearer than this:
"We made use of the whales as a symbol for the entire fight."

In the end, it was only about power and money:
"The issue also provided NRDC with a high-profile campaign that significantly increased membership and financial resources for the whole organization."

Whale-ista - 4-28-2015 at 11:34 PM

True, this battle was never just about whales.

It was also about building infrastructure based on local commerce: The community now has a paved road to transport people, products, and eco-tourists who want to pay to camp, see friendly whales, etc.

Fishermen can more easily move their catch to markets.

Children have better schools and educational opportunities, instead of needing to leave and livie away from families at lagoon.

Whales were just the charismatic megafauna that attracted international attention and made all this local development possible.

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2015 at 04:55 PM

If we can basically agree that the salt works in Guerrero Negro, built over a half century ago by American entrepreneur Daniel Ludwig, did not seemingly harm the whales or their migration, if that had not been built, what would present day Guerrero Negro look like? Outside of the tourist season, this town would be empty. How much of a town it might have actually been.

David K - 4-29-2015 at 05:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  
If we can basically agree that the salt works in Guerrero Negro, built over a half century ago by American entrepreneur Daniel Ludwig, did not seemingly harm the whales or their migration, if that had not been built, what would present day Guerrero Negro look like? Outside of the tourist season, this town would be empty. How much of a town it might have actually been.


No salt works, then no town... here is a brief history of Black Warrior (Guerrero Negro): http://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/guerrero_...

DianaT - 4-29-2015 at 06:07 PM

Although dated, Serge Dedina's book, Saving The Gray Whale

is a good read and he brings in elements that I have not read anywhere else. Is he a bit biased? Of course he is as is everyone who writes anything.

And if anyone ever has the chance and wants to see one of the ugliest places in all of Baja, they need to get permission to drive the back road into Guerrero Negro from the road to Tortugas. It can only be driven all the way with the permission of the Salt Works. We drove it once as we were taking a friend to work at the Reserve office and he had permission. It is amazingly ugly and the thought of that anywhere near San Ignacio or in that area well, one can't believe how ugly and dead it is. What one sees on the road out to Ojo de Liebre is nothing compared to what one sees on that road.

BTW--- Serge is now Mayor of Imperial Beach. Having lived in IB and still owning property there, this is going to be real interesting. IB is a place where the environmentalists and slow growth groups are at war with the pro-high rise growth groups all the time.

rts551 - 4-30-2015 at 06:43 AM

Excellent Diana. Unfortunately, as illustrated above, people will only read to look for things to further own agenda.

Whale-ista - 4-30-2015 at 07:13 AM


The "seemingly harm" issue is a difficult thing to prove, either way. Are there people working to monitor and observe operations during whale migration season, to ensure whales are not colliding with barges, etc?

I've heard that whales and other marine animals are harmed by the salt operations at times, but there are no requirements for making these occurrences public. I'm not aware of any public reports that must be filed.

Without observers, and/or requirements for public disclosure: How can we ever know for sure what the impact is?
Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  
If we can basically agree that the salt works in Guerrero Negro, built over a half century ago by American entrepreneur Daniel Ludwig, did not seemingly harm the whales or their migration, if that had not been built, what would present day Guerrero Negro look like? Outside of the tourist season, this town would be empty. How much of a town it might have actually been.

Bajahowodd - 4-30-2015 at 05:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista  

The "seemingly harm" issue is a difficult thing to prove, either way. Are there people working to monitor and observe operations during whale migration season, to ensure whales are not colliding with barges, etc?

I've heard that whales and other marine animals are harmed by the salt operations at times, but there are no requirements for making these occurrences public. I'm not aware of any public reports that must be filed.

Without observers, and/or requirements for public disclosure: How can we ever know for sure what the impact is?

I certainly cannot know if there was any actual damage to the whales or their migration, but I do have to assume that since Ludwig built the salt works in the fifties, there may just be some empirical evidence that there was no harm to the whales.

That said, I am no fan of big business, but I was merely pointing out that without the GN salt works, there would not be such as vibrant an economy there thanks to tourism.

I do have some concerns if the same thing was to happen in San Ignacio, simply because San Ignacio has been around for so long, and has an iconic church, and a central square that GN can only hope for.


Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  
If we can basically agree that the salt works in Guerrero Negro, built over a half century ago by American entrepreneur Daniel Ludwig, did not seemingly harm the whales or their migration, if that had not been built, what would present day Guerrero Negro look like? Outside of the tourist season, this town would be empty. How much of a town it might have actually been.

Whale-ista - 5-1-2015 at 10:58 AM

Bajahowod- the town of San Ignacio has experienced changes due to more visitors en route to the lagoon. It seems these have generally been positive in terms of economic impacts: more opportunities for hotels, restaurants etc.

Would those same impacts have occurred at GN as whale watching became more popular? Today there are more companies setting up operations on the edge of the lagoon closer to town to Host and escort whale watchers. So over time, who knows?

The concerns at SI lagoon itself included potential impacts of pumping, lighting, heavy trucks on the salt flats, and industrial-scale operations in general. Fisherman worried about various larvae transport being disturbed by the construction of a mile long loading dock.

ESSA was a Complex project with multiple impacts on land, sea and air.



[Edited on 5-1-2015 by Whale-ista]

4x4abc - 5-1-2015 at 11:30 AM

good for you

Whale-ista - 5-1-2015 at 11:33 AM

Knowledge of what exactly?
Quote: Originally posted by 55steve  
I had knowledge of this real-time as my environmental lawyer friend was retained by the Mex Govt & the salt company.

4x4abc - 5-1-2015 at 11:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 55steve  
I had knowledge of this real-time as my environmental lawyer friend was retained by the Mex Govt & the salt company.


I had knowledge of Brad Pitt real time when I lived in Los Angles - he was my neighbor. How much do i know? Well, he was an aggressive driver.

rts551 - 5-1-2015 at 12:46 PM

Don't get baited into it Steve

55steve - 5-1-2015 at 12:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Don't get baited into it Steve


I saw it was moved to the political forum and deleted my stuff & bailed. No one ever wins a political discussion, in fact both sides usually wind up looking stupid.

Bajahowodd - 5-1-2015 at 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista  
Bajahowod- the town of San Ignacio has experienced changes due to more visitors en route to the lagoon. It seems these have generally been positive in terms of economic impacts: more opportunities for hotels, restaurants etc.

Would those same impacts have occurred at GN as whale watching became more popular? Today there are more companies setting up operations on the edge of the lagoon closer to town to Host and escort whale watchers. So over time, who knows?

The concerns at SI lagoon itself included potential impacts of pumping, lighting, heavy trucks on the salt flats, and industrial-scale operations in general. Fisherman worried about various larvae transport being disturbed by the construction of a mile long loading dock.

ESSA was a Complex project with multiple impacts on land, sea and air.



[Edited on 5-1-2015 by Whale-ista]


I merely speculate. However, I believe that more whales go to Scammons than do San Ignacio, which is larger than Scammons.

Which brings up a question. Inasmuch as the lagoon at San Ignacio is some 40 miles from the town, might they develop separate access to their proposed salt works, sparing the little town of all the hullabaloo? Just wondering, since, at teh end of the day, money talks.

[Edited on 5-1-2015 by Bajahowodd]