BajaNomad

Baja Turns To Desal

Ateo - 7-4-2015 at 08:43 AM

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/04/ensenad...

Far from the Colorado River, Baja California’s coastal regions are increasingly looking to alternative sources of supply — and desalination has become a favored option.

Set to launch operations in 2017, the state’s first utility-scale ocean desalination plant is under construction in Ensenada, where residents have been subject to water rationing. The $48 million plant, a reverse-osmosis facility, would supply 5.7 million gallons daily to residents of the port city, part of a sprawling Baja California municipality that includes the San Quintin export-oriented agricultural region and the wine-producing Valle de Guadalupe.

Mexico’s National Infrastructure Fund has contributed $14 million for the project, while the North American Development Bank is providing a $22 million loan to the South Korean company contracted by the state to build the facility.

photo
The Tijuana aqueduct carries Colorado River from Mexicali to the Pacific Coast. Water planners are seeking to decrease their dependence on the river, and looking at alternative sources of water supply. — Comision Estatal del Agua de Baja California
The only area of the state that does not benefit from deliveries of Colorado River water, Ensenada has long relied on aquifers both for municipal and agricultural purposes — and those aquifers have become increasingly depleted.

Baja California Gov. Francisco Vega de Lamadrid last month announced plans for a second desalination plant down the coast in San Quintin, similar in scale and size to the Ensenada plant, a project aimed at increasing the water supply to residents of several farming communities. The region’s growers have been operating small privately operated desalination plants for years to treat brackish well water; Baja California’s agriculture’s secretariat counts 52 existing plants in the area.

“By instructions of the governor, we are turning toward the Pacific, through public-private investments,” said German Lizola, director of the Baja California State Water Commission, known as CEA, an agency that plans the residential water supply across the state.

The San Quintin plant would be the first project developed in Baja California through the state’s new public-private partnership law.

Longer term, the state is working with the private sector to pursue a third seawater desalination plant in Rosarito Beach. Its envisioned capacity is up to 100 million gallons daily — twice the size of a desalination plant being built in Carlsbad — and plans include the possibility that some of that water could be sent across the border to U.S. users.

With water supply issues most acute in Ensenada, the state has been looking at other options as well. Lizola said that by the end of the summer, the city’s residents can expect relief with an additional supply of water — an estimated 6.8 million gallons daily — sent from Tijuana through existing infrastructure that is being re-purposed to carry the water. The project would for the first time bring Colorado River water to Ensenada.

Another alternative source for Baja California could be treated wastewater.

Leopoldo Mendoza, a professor at the Autonomous University of Baja California in Ensenada, said that about 20 percent of the city’s treated wastewater is used in agriculture. In Tijuana, where all the city’s wastewater is treated, only 6.5 percent is used, mainly to water greenery, with some used by local industries, according to the Baja California State Public Service Commission in Tijuana.

“We remain too dependent on the Colorado River,” said Mendoza. “There is a need for greater efforts in water re-use and treatment in all of our cities.”

For the Guadalupe Valley, one proposal under study involves piping in treated wastewater from Tijuana for agricultural use, while another would bring in water from the Colorado River, according to the Baja California State Water Commission.

rts551 - 7-4-2015 at 09:11 AM

Baja California and Baja Sur are investing heavily in desal plants. But not everyone agrees this is smart. Some are starting to question the economic and environmental viability of these projects.

http://monitoreconomico.org/noticias/2015/jul/02/vega-irresp...

woody with a view - 7-4-2015 at 09:42 AM

With El Nino coming the drought will be over in the near future. At least until the next one.

Mexitron - 7-4-2015 at 10:10 AM

Whatever happened with the solar desal plant in Puerto San Carlos?

Seems pretty un-green to be using prodigious amounts of petrol to desal water.

[Edited on 7-4-2015 by Mexitron]

Osprey - 7-4-2015 at 10:14 AM

The problem is complicated by large city expansion that falls short of delivery systems. For example Los Cabos has water delivery in place for 88,000 end users and there are 230,000 there. Desal plants can only help if infrastructure for delivery of each plant can become a reality when the plant is ready to give up pure, clean water.

Same old story maybe: plants make water for commercial ventures while no pipes go looping out in efficient circuits to La Gente.

Apples and Manzanas

durrelllrobert - 7-4-2015 at 11:10 AM

The Ensenada plant is being built by a S. Korean company in 1/5th the time (2 years Vs.10 years) and 1/200th the cost ($48M vs $1B) of the Carlsbad facility, mostly because it took 6+ years just to get the permits for the Carsbad facility. Of course the Carsbad facility will produce 50 million gallons of drinking water per day and the Ensenada facility will only produce 11.4% of that (5.7 milloin gal./day). Both facilities use reverse osmosis technology to desalinate sea water with a 50% efficiency (two gallons in/ 1 gallon saline solution out). In both cases the saline solution is about twice as salty as sea water but the relatively smalll quantity (about 5.7 million gallons/day for Ensenada) is rapidly dilluted to equalibrium, despite what the naysayers tell us.

Ateo - 7-4-2015 at 12:35 PM

We need a plague to take out 80% of humans. Then all would be well.

David K - 7-4-2015 at 12:56 PM

Death of millions because of water shortage? Think about golf courses and the amount of land and water required for the few folks that like to chase a little ball around? Grass is so 80's... lol.

Ateo - 7-4-2015 at 02:26 PM

I'm talking death of billions DK. We could all afford to live by the beach then. JK. :biggrin::biggrin:

rts551 - 7-4-2015 at 02:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Death of millions because of water shortage? Think about golf courses and the amount of land and water required for the few folks that like to chase a little ball around? Grass is so 80's... lol.


Almost all of the courses in Tucson use effluent. Of course in Southern California we may have to start pumping it to houses.

Oh and why do you want freedom for some..but not those that chase the little white ball around.

Bajahowodd - 7-4-2015 at 04:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Osprey  
The problem is complicated by large city expansion that falls short of delivery systems. For example Los Cabos has water delivery in place for 88,000 end users and there are 230,000 there. Desal plants can only help if infrastructure for delivery of each plant can become a reality when the plant is ready to give up pure, clean water.

Same old story maybe: plants make water for commercial ventures while no pipes go looping out in efficient circuits to La Gente.


At least there is some good news, the Los Cabos area has blossomed with a bunch of upscale mega resorts in the last ten years. But, the BCS government has required all of these projects to install desal plants on their property before they would approve the project.

David K - 7-4-2015 at 05:37 PM

Amazing how some change or add what is posted to tarnish it. Death is not freedom, as it was suggested the lack of water would result in such. Golf courses do use gray or recycled or other here... I was talking about Cabo golf courses, in Baja, not Socal or Az Ralph.

rts551 - 7-4-2015 at 06:33 PM

David...Oh you said "Think about golf courses and the amount of land and water required for the few folks that like to chase a little ball around? Grass is so 80's... lol."

I forgot, you are never wrong.

For the topic: Desal plants consume large amounts of electricity and spill toxic brine back into the ocean (sometimes bays and backwaters). BCS is starting to rethink the requirement for large developments putting them in.

[Edited on 7-5-2015 by rts551]

vgabndo - 7-4-2015 at 07:37 PM

Not that science means anything to some folks, but we have learned by studying the earth that the last time it could sustain its population long term was when we had about half as many humans as we do now. Ateo is correct, the only real solution is a reduction in population. They have to eat, and that uses 80% of the fresh water supply. When it comes to a choice between having enough water to survive without great sacrifice or rich people playing golf we'll give some thought to keeping some of the sand traps in our community gardens! Just to remind us of our earlier excesses. :lol:

David K - 7-4-2015 at 08:12 PM

More doom and gloom, but save the golf courses? Sure... ??

rts551 - 7-4-2015 at 08:18 PM

like I said, in a lot of communities, the golf course is not the water waster.

Swimming pools, maybe. Lawns for sure, but mostly people.

And your answer David? There is no shortage? Where does your water come from?

David K - 7-4-2015 at 08:22 PM

God

JC43 - 7-4-2015 at 09:44 PM

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
God

How smart ! I was always thinking the rain is delivering our water by using a recycling method. But o.k.: God! Q.: Does your God has a watering can which hits exactly your garden??? And your electricity comes from the outlet, right? So you don´t have to care about any problems on that?
And you are always pumping gas for $20 so you don´t care about any price increase.
Smart!

rts551 - 7-5-2015 at 06:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
God


OH GOD!

rts551 - 7-5-2015 at 06:05 AM

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-201504...

David K - 7-5-2015 at 09:21 AM

Can you guys on the left ever laugh or at least smile?

I am an irrigation professional for 35 years, so yes I know where water comes from. That you have no sense of humor is more alarming. That you want to continue this stupid debate shows a severe need that is best answered by a medical professional or local herbalist.

Mexitron - 7-5-2015 at 09:31 AM

Golf courses, in the big picture, are not big water users--its cattle folks---upwards of 50 percent of the water in CA goes to raising cattle. Take a drive thru Brawley...miles upon miles of verdant green alfalfa in the noonday desert sun taking sensational amounts of water during the summer...

rts551 - 7-5-2015 at 09:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Golf courses, in the big picture, are not big water users--its cattle folks---upwards of 50 percent of the water in CA goes to raising cattle. Take a drive thru Brawley...miles upon miles of verdant green alfalfa in the noonday desert sun taking sensational amounts of water during the summer...


I don't know. You have to ask the "irrigation professional". But I think you are right.

J.P. - 7-5-2015 at 10:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Golf courses, in the big picture, are not big water users--its cattle folks---upwards of 50 percent of the water in CA goes to raising cattle. Take a drive thru Brawley...miles upon miles of verdant green alfalfa in the noonday desert sun taking sensational amounts of water during the summer...


I don't know. You have to ask the "irrigation professional". But I think you are right.







The last project I worked on before I retired was a Sewage Treatment Plant on I -5 near LODI Ca. I met a Farmer There that Leased several hundred of the surrounding acres of land Which was irrigated by recycled water from the plant, He grew hay there, he relater he got 6 cuttings a year off that land and the first cutting paid all his expenses the other 5 were Profit. Sounded like it was a smart venture.

BajaRat - 7-5-2015 at 10:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  
We need a plague to take out 80% of humans. Then all would be well.



Long term solutions must include population reduction ie abstinence, condoms, vasectomies, tubal ligation and change in social expectations for large families, yea good luck on those.
Sadly left to his own devices man in general is unlikely to self impose any of these options so viruses, disease, wars and malnutrition are probably the only thing that will move the needle.
I wonder what the long term effects of the brine being returned to the sea in these quantities will have on the ecosystem, guess we are about to find out.

TMW - 7-5-2015 at 11:04 AM

Reducing the population thru natural or normal means creates problems such as when people age how will the smaller work force support them. Another problem is getting the catholic church to want smaller families. Right now their position is to multiply. I just read in todays paper that the US as of now is at the sustainable level of people. In other words new babies and people coming into the US will maintain the population as is. According to the article soon after the recession hit the population went into decline for several years.

A Waste of Money?

SFandH - 7-5-2015 at 11:54 AM

Maybe. Here are some recent experiences.

"After enduring severe water shortages during a drought in the late 1980s, Santa Barbara voters agreed to spend $34 million to build a desalination plant. It opened in 1991 and provided water for four months. When the drought ended, the city shut it down. Water from reservoirs and other sources was significantly cheaper.

Similarly, Australia spent more than $10 billion building six huge seawater desalination plants during a severe drought from 1997 to 2009. Today, Cooley noted, four are shut down because when rains finally came, the cost of the water became noncompetitive."

Cost:

Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot -- roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources.

The power needed to run the plant, in this case the Carlsbad plant:

about 38 megawatts per day, enough to power 28,500 homes

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-large...









David K - 7-5-2015 at 11:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Golf courses, in the big picture, are not big water users--its cattle folks---upwards of 50 percent of the water in CA goes to raising cattle. Take a drive thru Brawley...miles upon miles of verdant green alfalfa in the noonday desert sun taking sensational amounts of water during the summer...


I don't know. You have to ask the "irrigation professional". But I think you are right.


Golf course around Cabo vs Brawley cattle farms... I am not getting the connection? Are the Cabo golf courses using grey water, recycled water, or sea water (I think Diamante is?)? Just trying to keep this about Baja.

rts551 - 7-5-2015 at 02:26 PM

THe David. Hint. Its all about water.

woody with a view - 7-5-2015 at 02:31 PM

using water to keep a ribeye on my BBQ is wise! using water so that guys can smack their balls all day seems stupid, even reclaimed water should go towards the cities needs, not a privately held corporation.

rts551 - 7-5-2015 at 02:51 PM

Don't worry. Its been proposed that San Dingo county be allowed to pump it into their water system.

Mexitron - 7-5-2015 at 03:20 PM

Mexicali is sitting on a lot of geothermal, why not use that to desal water.

Bajahowodd - 7-5-2015 at 03:42 PM

In my opinion, California has a few problems with water. Just check out how much water it takes to grow almonds. Incredible.

Also on my list are the bottled water companies that pump out the ground water for free. Are you listening Olancha? The state needs to tax the water being pumped freely to serve all the people across the nation that for some reason, need to drink bottled water. Just perhaps, if California imposed a huge tax on the pumping of that water, we shall see if folks want to continue to pay for a product that is readily available from their tap.

I live in an area that has a huge population of Vietnamese and Korean folks. They are always going to stores that offer filtered water. It's a cultural thing, simply because in their native countries, the tap water is not drinkable. Anyone know how many billions of dollars are spent annually for bottled water in a country that has potable water flowing from the faucets everywhere?

BajaRat - 7-5-2015 at 07:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Mexicali is sitting on a lot of geothermal, why not use that to desal water.


Yes, now what about the brine

David K - 7-5-2015 at 09:57 PM

Laguna Salada is hundreds of square miles of salt flats, and downhill from both Cerro Prieto geothermal plant... or sea coast, if you go in it far enough. Natural brine pit all there and ready to serve the needs.

Mexitron - 7-6-2015 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Mexicali is sitting on a lot of geothermal, why not use that to desal water.


Yes, now what about the brine


It dilutes readily, the oceans are big.

motoged - 7-6-2015 at 09:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  


It dilutes readily, the oceans are big.



Yeah, no worries about that.....we've been dumping trash in the oceans for centuries....why stop now? :rolleyes:

rts551 - 7-6-2015 at 10:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Mexicali is sitting on a lot of geothermal, why not use that to desal water.


Yes, now what about the brine


It dilutes readily, the oceans are big.


Depends on where and the currents. There are many bays or estuaries that I would not want to dump close to.

laventana - 7-10-2015 at 08:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by durrelllrobert  
The Ensenada plant is being built by a S. Korean company in 1/5th the time (2 years Vs.10 years) and 1/200th the cost ($48M vs $1B) of the Carlsbad facility, mostly because it took 6+ years just to get the permits for the Carsbad facility. Of course the Carsbad facility will produce 50 million gallons of drinking water per day and the Ensenada facility will only produce 11.4% of that (5.7 milloin gal./day). Both facilities use reverse osmosis technology to desalinate sea water with a 50% efficiency (two gallons in/ 1 gallon saline solution out). In both cases the saline solution is about twice as salty as sea water but the relatively smalll quantity (about 5.7 million gallons/day for Ensenada) is rapidly dilluted to equalibrium, despite what the naysayers tell us.


lets at least count our apples correctly... that is a 20 to one ratio... And note the labor rate differential between the two countries, is that about 20-10 to one?

They should be looking into building offshore or nearshore wind farms or wave/tide pumps where there is wind or waves to drive the desal pressure pumps IMHO.

Mexitron - 7-11-2015 at 07:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  
Mexicali is sitting on a lot of geothermal, why not use that to desal water.


Yes, now what about the brine


It dilutes readily, the oceans are big.


Depends on where and the currents. There are many bays or estuaries that I would not want to dump close to.


Very true, it needs to be sent offshore, wouldn't think of dumping it into a bay or estuary.

Alan - 7-11-2015 at 11:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron  


It dilutes readily, the oceans are big.



Yeah, no worries about that.....we've been dumping trash in the oceans for centuries....why stop now? :rolleyes:
Trash?? Aren't they just putting back what they took out?

I'm pretty sure there is just as much water on earth now as they has always been. I can't help but wonder if CA's water rationing isn't contributing to it's continued drought. If people aren't watering lawns, golf courses and filling swimming pools aren't they impacting the evaporation, condensation, precipitation cycle?

No brine discharge technology

durrelllrobert - 7-11-2015 at 03:43 PM

Desalination technology can access the world’s most abundant supply of water, but it is currently limited by high economic and environmental costs and production issues that limit productivity and efficiency. More specifically, it results in production of a hyper-saline byproduct in the form of salt scaling or brine. The second problem is a lack of efficiency due to wasted thermal energy and the high cost of electricity. EFD Corp. patented technology solves these problems by using advanced spray drying and vapor compression distillation techniques to produce fresh water at a lower cost without producing salt scaling or brine.
[url=www.efdcorp.com/‎
]www.efdcorp.com/‎
[/url]

rts551 - 7-11-2015 at 03:58 PM

I can not find where they have implemented this technology anywhere. They are looking for investors though.

This is the plan

durrelllrobert - 7-11-2015 at 04:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Maybe. Here are some recent experiences.

"After enduring severe water shortages during a drought in the late 1980s, Santa Barbara voters agreed to spend $34 million to build a desalination plant. It opened in 1991 and provided water for four months. When the drought ended, the city shut it down. Water from reservoirs and other sources was significantly cheaper.

Similarly, Australia spent more than $10 billion building six huge seawater desalination plants during a severe drought from 1997 to 2009. Today, Cooley noted, four are shut down because when rains finally came, the cost of the water became noncompetitive."

Cost:

Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot -- roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources.

The power needed to run the plant, in this case the Carlsbad plant:

about 38 megawatts per day, enough to power 28,500 homes

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-large...









The San Diego County Water Authority (SDCWA) has agreed to buy at least 48,000 acre-feet of water from the Carsbad plant each year for about $2,000 an acre-foot. An acre-foot equals about 326,000 gallons, roughly enough for two families of four for a year. As of June 29, 2015 the plant is now connected the existing SDCWA aquaduct in San Marcos via a 10 mile long, 54 inch pipeline.

to www.kpbs.org/.../carlsbad-desalination-plants-pipeline-now-complete/

Mexitron - 7-12-2015 at 11:11 AM

Seems ridiculous to be paying for desal in San Diego when all they have to do is let a few alfalfa ranches stop producing.

BajaRat - 7-12-2015 at 12:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by laventana  
Quote: Originally posted by durrelllrobert  
The Ensenada plant is being built by a S. Korean company in 1/5th the time (2 years Vs.10 years) and 1/200th the cost ($48M vs $1B) of the Carlsbad facility, mostly because it took 6+ years just to get the permits for the Carsbad facility. Of course the Carsbad facility will produce 50 million gallons of drinking water per day and the Ensenada facility will only produce 11.4% of that (5.7 milloin gal./day). Both facilities use reverse osmosis technology to desalinate sea water with a 50% efficiency (two gallons in/ 1 gallon saline solution out). In both cases the saline solution is about twice as salty as sea water but the relatively smalll quantity (about 5.7 million gallons/day for Ensenada) is rapidly dilluted to equalibrium, despite what the naysayers tell us.



They should be looking into building offshore or nearshore wind farms or wave/tide pumps where there is wind or waves to drive the desal pressure pumps IMHO.



Couldn't agree more..... The possibility of major bird strikes might rule out the near shore wind turbine options though.
The brine is going to be the issue if produced in these quantities

David K - 7-12-2015 at 12:19 PM

In the northern gulf (or anywhere for that matter), the technology of tidal turbines would be effective... the natural flow of water coming in and going out of bays or inlets could drive turbines and make electricity. Wave action is also another natural force to move turbines.

Northern Baja with its gulf tides, ocean waves, and geothermal zones could be a major exporter of clean, renewable energy!

BajaRat - 7-12-2015 at 12:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
In the northern gulf (or anywhere for that matter), the technology of tidal turbines would be effective... the natural flow of water coming in and going out of bays or inlets could drive turbines and make electricity. Wave action is also another natural force to move turbines.

Northern Baja with its gulf tides, ocean waves, and geothermal zones could be a major exporter of clean, renewable energy!



The stars must have aligned, I agree with you on this one David :lol:

rts551 - 7-12-2015 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
In the northern gulf (or anywhere for that matter), the technology of tidal turbines would be effective... the natural flow of water coming in and going out of bays or inlets could drive turbines and make electricity. Wave action is also another natural force to move turbines.

Northern Baja with its gulf tides, ocean waves, and geothermal zones could be a major exporter of clean, renewable energy!



The stars must have aligned, I agree with you on this one David :lol:
Looks like he is finally seeing the light :light: and "man" has to do something.

[Edited on 7-12-2015 by rts551]

surfhat - 7-12-2015 at 12:52 PM

Back in the 80's, Geo magazine, I believe, had a description of using the Gulf Stream current to produce unlimited electricity by a similar means as you have suggested here with the northern Sea of Cortez with their extreme tides.

I wonder what happened to that brilliant idea? Collusion with energy producing companies and lobbyists seems to have killed that avenue. Tucker car designs comes to mind, as all the car companies aligned to put them out of business.

Truly sustainable energy producers have a mountain to climb. We should all applaud their efforts to help our mother earth survive mans selfish folly.