BajaNomad

They did not even speak English!!

pelone - 8-9-2015 at 09:41 AM

I occasionally read/hear folks express their frustration that while visiting or living in Mexico that it is difficult to find English speakers in the banks, grocery stores, gas stations, small markets etc. The frustration that they share seems to me to be expressions of lazy or arrogant folks who do not take the least effort to adapt. With the increased evidence that learning a new language helps stave off the aging process and puts off the onset of age related dementia one would think that "gabachos" would embrace the learning process. I suggest that folks at least write down and refer to some key words when shopping and travelling. Write down the key words on an index card or commit them to memory--use them. Visitors to Loreto should plan ahead-just as one would prepare to deal with a new monetary system, learn some survival words. The lame excuse of being too old to learn is really a statement that one does not want to try. :lol:

bajabuddha - 8-9-2015 at 10:16 AM

May I also suggest checking in with your local education establishment NOB; many towns and cities offer night classes in 'conversational spanish' as well as other languages; usually around $30-40 for a 6 week course, includes workbook. If you're in Baja, there are classes all over the place run by locals to teach the simplistic phrases. There's no excuse for lack of respect and courtesy.

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2015 at 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pelone  
I occasionally read/hear folks express their frustration that while visiting or living in Mexico that it is difficult to find English speakers in the banks, grocery stores, gas stations, small markets etc. The frustration that they share seems to me to be expressions of lazy or arrogant folks who do not take the least effort to adapt. With the increased evidence that learning a new language helps stave off the aging process and puts off the onset of age related dementia one would think that "gabachos" would embrace the learning process. I suggest that folks at least write down and refer to some key words when shopping and travelling. Write down the key words on an index card or commit them to memory--use them. Visitors to Loreto should plan ahead-just as one would prepare to deal with a new monetary system, learn some survival words. The lame excuse of being too old to learn is really a statement that one does not want to try. :lol:


why do some people always want to tell other people how to live? attend to your own faults before you attend to others, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc....

peace out!

Throwing stones?

AKgringo - 8-9-2015 at 11:40 AM

Pelone, I read your post and thought it was good advice, with just a touch of legitimate rant.

I spent quite a bit of time in mainland Mexico with my parents as a child, and a few more times as a young man. Finding someone who spoke English where we were back in the late 50s and 60s was not a good bet.

My young brain soaked up enough Spanish so easily, that I still can usually make myself understood without searching for a translation. My problem is that I speak well enough to fool the other person into thinking I can understand them also. Due to hearing damage (tinnitus and frequency loss), and the fact that I never mastered Spanish grammar, it is sometimes a one way conversation.

Because I intend to spend more time in my retirement years in Baja, I am working on improving my skills, but my 68 year old brain and ears makes it a lot tougher to gain and retain any upgrades.

It is worth the try though!

gnukid - 8-9-2015 at 12:15 PM

Microsoft released their Translator app for android and OS X

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....

It really can help to write down and practice listening and speaking a few words a day using the index card method. It's really fun too to engage shop owners and all sorts to learn and share vocabulary. It can be a great excuse to get out of the house each day and engage your neighborhood. I learn new words daily.



[Edited on 8-9-2015 by gnukid]

basautter - 8-9-2015 at 12:42 PM

Hmmmmmm....it is Mexico, and they speak Spanish...Not too hard to learn with modern techniques:bounce:

Udo - 8-9-2015 at 01:02 PM

My opinion on this subject matter is just MY PERSONAL opinion. I feel that if a person choses to move to a foreign country, it is their obligation to learn that country's language.
If one moves to ANY country, say in Europe, how is one going to get by and just speak English. Same thing with Mexico, or any Latin American country. No one is going to cater to someone who just speaks English...let alone the INM (whom English speakers want the documents in English so they can fill out paperwork for permanent or temporary residency).
Banks, grocery stores, Costco, gas stations, as an example, are under no obligation to speak English with their customers.

BajaBlanca - 8-9-2015 at 02:01 PM

If you are in Mexico, I also agree that you must make the effort to speak Spanish. It can be broken Spanish but just try til you get it down. It will come, no matter what your age.

Fernweh - 8-9-2015 at 02:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
There's no excuse for lack of respect and courtesy.


If you make that statement in the US, in regards to the Hispanic immigrants,
you will be labelled a racist.

The businesses in the US, especially in CA, have figured it out. It makes sense, a good business sense and improves customer service, to offer a bilingual staff, and mark their products and their location, in English and Spanish.

bajabuddha - 8-9-2015 at 03:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fernweh  
Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
There's no excuse for lack of respect and courtesy.


If you make that statement in the US, in regards to the Hispanic immigrants,
you will be labelled a racist.

The businesses in the US, especially in CA, have figured it out. It makes sense, a good business sense and improves customer service, to offer a bilingual staff, and mark their products and their location, in English and Spanish.


Oh, I agree 100% with your statement.

However, "When in Rome..." this thread isn't about NOB.

And, the same people who I have personally heard "IF they want MY money, they aught to speak MY language!" are the same people who come to Baja and say, "If they'd JUST..... " or, "You'd THINK they'd.....". Well, they don't. It's México.

Alm - 8-9-2015 at 03:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fernweh  
Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
There's no excuse for lack of respect and courtesy.


If you make that statement in the US, in regards to the Hispanic immigrants,
you will be labelled a racist.

Good point. Like one journalist said, - political correctness is the worst thing that could happen to this country.
Quote: Originally posted by Fernweh  
The businesses in the US, especially in CA, have figured it out. It makes sense, a good business sense and improves customer service, to offer a bilingual staff, and mark their products and their location, in English and Spanish.

And how English-speaking people would feel about it, what do you think? In the place where I live, the abundance of signs in languages other than English is enormous. Sometimes you have to look hard for a minute or two, to figure out what the heck all those Cantonese/Mandarin/Punjabi characters mean. Or what the store clerk is trying to tell you in his "sort of" English. Any excuse for that?

Oh c'mon... A country can only digest so much immigrants before it stops being what it was. In Mexico we are in the same position as some illiterate Honduran or Cambodian NOB. The difference is - we are coming there in waaay fewer numbers, mostly retirees. It's tough learning new language at that age. Some are trying, some tried and stopped.

From my personal POV, speaking local lingo is practical, makes life easier and more enjoyable. You can't demand the same of everybody though. And I am not sure that local businesses should jump the gun, catering to foreigners before locals. But then again, business are doing what they have to, in order to make money, and don't care sh-t about anything else.

[Edited on 8-9-2015 by Alm]

Bajahowodd - 8-9-2015 at 03:57 PM

This has been a long standing problem in the US. As a culture, the US has fewer multi-lingual speakers who are native born than practically anywhere in the industrialized world.

Go to Europe. You will find so many folks that not only speak English, but also speak other European languages. It is common to find Europeans that speak as many as three or four languages. They are taught that in their schools.

We are a joke when it comes to that. I believe it stems from that American exceptionalism train of thought.

bajabuddha - 8-9-2015 at 04:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pelone  
I suggest that folks at least write down and refer to some key words when shopping and travelling. Write down the key words on an index card or commit them to memory--use them. Visitors to Loreto should plan ahead-just as one would prepare to deal with a new monetary system, learn some survival words.


First off, let's get grounded.

This is the gist of the post. Same goes NOB, for that matter; hence my post about "common courtesy", not being able to pass the Naturalization Exam. A few words, a few phrases (besides 'baño' and 'cerveza') and what I first suggest is "Lo siento...".

I live in New Mexico now and there are more Hispanic clerks, waiters, nurses, staff, and bi-lingual professional people than probably most of America combined. Spanish was spoken here before English ever was. I've occasionally helped out an Hispanic person in a line or situation where their counterpart didn't speak Spanish. NO BIGGIE.

(Lawd, don't get me singin' "It's a small world after all" or "Kumbaya"!!)

The main point is at least TRY. Nobody's talking of becoming fluent enough to conjugate your verbs (or your new wife for that matter, she'll do it for you). A few phrases, and my all-time fave is "Hablo poco, comprendo NADA.... " always gets a smile.

[Edited on 8-9-2015 by bajabuddha]

[Edited on 8-9-2015 by bajabuddha]

SFandH - 8-9-2015 at 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  


As a culture, the US has fewer multi-lingual speakers who are native born than practically anywhere in the industrialized world.

I believe it stems from that American exceptionalism train of thought.


I believe Americans are not multi-lingual because 99% of them don't need to be.

Why would someone in Peoria learn a second language? Who would they speak it to?

American exceptionalism, naw. You're thinking too hard.

KurtG - 8-9-2015 at 04:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  
This has been a long standing problem in the US. As a culture, the US has fewer multi-lingual speakers who are native born than practically anywhere in the industrialized world.

Go to Europe. You will find so many folks that not only speak English, but also speak other European languages. It is common to find Europeans that speak as many as three or four languages. They are taught that in their schools.

We are a joke when it comes to that. I believe it stems from that American exceptionalism train of thought.


If Minnesota, Wisconsin, N. Dakota and S. Dakota all had different languages I would have grown up speaking at least three of them just as in Europe where it is often necessary to use a different language when one travels a couple of hundred miles. There is an element of truth to your argument but I have always felt geography is a big factor. I graduated high school in Deer River, Minnesota in 1962, a tiny school where my class had 56 students. We were offered both Spanish and German, I mistakenly took German thinking it would be more useful to me.

JC43 - 8-9-2015 at 05:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pelone  
I occasionally read/hear folks express their frustration that while visiting or living in Mexico that it is difficult to find English speakers in the banks, grocery stores, gas stations, small markets etc. The frustration that they share seems to me to be expressions of lazy or arrogant folks who do not take the least effort to adapt. With the increased evidence that learning a new language helps stave off the aging process and puts off the onset of age related dementia one would think that "gabachos" would embrace the learning process. I suggest that folks at least write down and refer to some key words when shopping and travelling. Write down the key words on an index card or commit them to memory--use them. Visitors to Loreto should plan ahead-just as one would prepare to deal with a new monetary system, learn some survival words. The lame excuse of being too old to learn is really a statement that one does not want to try. :lol:


Hi Pelone,
This is your story in reverse:
There is a Mexican coming to SF/CA. He enters a bank asking for service and guess what??? The bank employee is not speaking Spanish. Lazy and arrogant! > your words!

Sjsam - 8-9-2015 at 06:30 PM

OK here's the deal! No matter where you go ,if you try others will respect the fact that your trying and will help.

Cliffy - 8-9-2015 at 08:20 PM

My first comment is always_
Mi espanol no es perfecto
After that I try, the more I try the more I learn BUT
once NOB it all disappears way too fast
Age related cleaning the hard drive :-)

espanol

captkw - 8-9-2015 at 09:18 PM

Hell, I could not deal with California without knowing spanish:biggrin:

dtutko1 - 8-10-2015 at 03:59 AM

A person who speaks 2 languages is bi lingual.
A person who speaks 3 or more is multi lingual.
A person who speaks 1 language is American.

pauldavidmena - 8-10-2015 at 10:07 AM

I've found that learning and improving my Spanish enriches my experience in Mexico and other Spanish-speaking countries, and deepens my feeling of connection to its people. Whether it's discourteous or not seems a touchy subject, but there's no doubt that living in an English-only bubble guarantees isolation between visitors and their hosts.

motoged - 8-10-2015 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  


As a culture, the US has fewer multi-lingual speakers who are native born than practically anywhere in the industrialized world.

I believe it stems from that American exceptionalism train of thought.


I believe Americans are not multi-lingual because 99% of them don't need to be.

Why would someone in Peoria learn a second language? Who would they speak it to?

American exceptionalism, naw. You're thinking too hard.




A few years ago in San Jose del Cabo, I observed an American woman complain that "Why don't they speak American down here?"

That said just about all I can offer about such matters....aside from reminding folks that you are in their country...make an effort without making fun of their language....

Bajahowodd - 8-10-2015 at 04:41 PM

'nuff said.

Bajahowodd - 8-10-2015 at 04:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajahowodd  


As a culture, the US has fewer multi-lingual speakers who are native born than practically anywhere in the industrialized world.

I believe it stems from that American exceptionalism train of thought.


I believe Americans are not multi-lingual because 99% of them don't need to be.

Why would someone in Peoria learn a second language? Who would they speak it to?

American exceptionalism, naw. You're thinking too hard.


Well, you just exemplify a point that Americans are less likely to travel to foreign countries than citizens of most of the industrialized of the world.

I recall a time when were were getting into a panga to see the whales in San Ignacio. Our boat mates were a couple from Scandinavia who had traveled to Argentina and were biking from there up to Canada. They spoke better Spanish than I.

what was a Great USA

captkw - 8-10-2015 at 05:06 PM

and don't forget that americans are LUCKY if they get a week off or don't get shot by a cop...keep waving that flag as folks are leaving as fast as they can.....The Great Free America...LOL Land of the fee !! New Zealand is the highest rated land to live in according to Forbes....myself have met SO many folks in my travels that wont go to the usa as its SO dangerous...rain coat on !!

vandenberg - 8-10-2015 at 07:14 PM

Well, it's true that in several European countries folks are down to a 32 hr work week with a 4 to 6 week quaranteed vacation a year.

I believe the one to ask how is our POTUS.:?:

bajabuddha - 8-10-2015 at 09:10 PM

Well, there goes THIS thread down the tubes........ New Zealand? POTUS? Learn a little Spanish when you visit Baja? Knuckleheads.



..........FFFLLLUUUSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......... :no:

...and, the Nomania only took less than two whole pages this time. :smug:

[Edited on 8-11-2015 by bajabuddha]

mtgoat666 - 8-10-2015 at 09:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw  
and don't forget that americans are LUCKY if they get a week off or don't get shot by a cop..


The problem in gringolandia is that for many years gringos gave cops freedom to crack heads with immunity,... Now gringos are getting what they deserve, manhandling by a fascist pseudo military out of flocking control!
And gringos long ago handed political power to corporation, so of course public policy is all about what corporations want, cheap productivity. You cube rats better toe the line or we will replace you with a b1 visa from Bangalore! You shouldn't be learning Spanish, you should be learning Hindi, because they will be owning you soon!