BajaNomad

FMM'S AND NO FREE ZONE

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 9-16-2015 at 10:16 PM

Hola,

saw this on bloody decks. is this another case of the mexicans shooting themselves in the foot.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

P.S. I'M ONLY THE MESSENGER...AND..IF THIS REALLY HAPPENS

I saw this bit of news on the "Discover Baja Travel Club" web site. If this is now the case, I would guess that there may be more people at the immigration office at the boarder. But most people either won't care to stop or won't know about the change.


Mexican tourist permits, or FMMs (Forma Migratoria Multiple), are required for all non-Mexican citizens entering Baja. As of September 2015, the “free zone” for FMMs (trips within the 20 kilometer border zone for less than 72 hours) is no longer valid and everyone entering Mexico will need to obtain an FMM. A passport or passport card is required to obtain an FMM.

DB insider tips:

As of September 2015, there is no longer a “free zone” for FMMs. Every non-Mexican citizen entering Baja will need to obtain an FMM regardless of length or location of visit. Also as of September 2015, visitors are no longer required to return their FMM to the Mexican government when exiting the country.
FMM tourist permits are issued for 180 days. Please be aware that FMMs are not valid for multiple entry. When you stop at the border to get your FMM stamped at immigration, we recommend telling them that you would like the permit for the full six months. This way, you are covered if you decide to extend your trip.
Get your FMM ahead of time at Discover Baja and skip the hassle of having to make multiple stops and waiting in long lines.
Keep your FMM in a safe place. Mexican immigration agents and federal police have the authority to ask for proof of legal status in Mexico at any time.
For Mexican insurance to be valid you must be in compliance with Mexican laws. Since having an FMM is a Mexican law, not having an FMM can invalidate your insurance and land you in jail.
Make two copies of your FMM tourist permit before traveling and leave one copy at home and carry one copy with you in a separate place from your actual FMM.
If you lose your FMM, you will need to go to the nearest immigration office to get a new one.

BajaBlanca - 9-16-2015 at 11:03 PM

great idea to keep a copy elsewhere (or copies as the case may be)

I think it is not a good idea that it cant be used for multiple entries but can you hear the ka-ching ka ching ka ching that they are hoping will come in?

David K - 9-16-2015 at 11:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
great idea to keep a copy elsewhere (or copies as the case may be)

I think it is not a good idea that it cant be used for multiple entries but can you hear the ka-ching ka ching ka ching that they are hoping will come in?


Yet, (reported here) an INM official told a Playas resident (or call him a daily tourist visitor who sleeps in Mexico, since he is using an FMM) to pay for the 180 day one ONE time and just show it as he walks in with the Mexican citizen side after the first day, for the remaining days it is valid...


If $25 is for 180 days, then 18 days should be $2.50 if they want it turned in and be honest about it's cost vs. time valid.. right? 7 days is free after all.

For the new kids going to Mexico... From 1965 to 2000, the tourist card was FREE for 180 days, and Mexico had a LOT of American tourists and family vacations happening those years... Businesses in Baja were growing and prospering...

weebray - 9-17-2015 at 09:43 AM

They'll be building a wall soon.

Tioloco - 9-17-2015 at 05:11 PM

So Mexicali for dinner will require paperwork to be filled out?
Algodones for teeth cleaning and lunch will require documentation?
I have serious doubts about that.

sancho - 9-17-2015 at 08:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  

I have serious doubts about that.






With you on that. Quoting Discover Baja or any other source
doesn't mean jack. The only thing that matters is what the
Mex Imm officer says at the time you are dealing with him.
I would bet one can
walk across at TJ for lunch without getting an fmm. Seems
business as usual driving, keep your fmm for as many entries
as long as it is valid. Doesn't seem practical that they could
hold up vehicle traffic into Mex, making every tourist get a
tourist card, there would be a line on Sat. back to the 5 at San Ysidro


23S52N - 9-18-2015 at 09:13 AM

I have to agree not to take anything that is unofficial as gospel. Example; when i was in law enforcement in the Yukon, and Milepost magazine published that it was not necessary to stop at the international border between Alaska and the Yukon......wrong....and several poor folks paid (literally) the consequences in heavy fines. Safest bet is like suggested, check with the guy wearing the uniform. Just my two cents.

regards,
Keith

SFandH - 9-18-2015 at 09:48 AM

The above is good advice. It seems to me that the FMM requirements are evolving as the Mexicans improve their land based ports of entry. The San Ysidro situation is rather strange because they have two sets of rules, one for walkers and another for drivers. The SY southbound pedestrian crossing provides the infrastructure to enforce stricter requirements but there is no way they could implement the same requirements for drivers because of the volume of traffic.

Plus there are Mexican immigration officials wanting to tighten things up but the local government, TJ for instance, fights back because of the negative impact on the economy.

There are conflicting requirements, better border security vs. keeping the flow across the border moving as fast as possible. The result is an ill defined, illogical compromise situation.


[Edited on 9-18-2015 by SFandH]

south bound vehicles

akshadow - 9-18-2015 at 10:34 AM

Why couldn't they require the same info from vehicles. the US appears to do it and all of the traffic eventually gets back into the US. should Mexico give up some of its national autonomy because it will cause traffic problems?
I will admit more people are and will be willing to wait to get into the US longer than they would wait to get into Mexico.
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
The above is good advice. there is no way they could implement the same requirements for drivers because of the volume of traffic.

Plus there are Mexican immigration officials wanting to tighten things up but the local government, TJ for instance, fights back because of the negative impact on the economy.

There are conflicting requirements, better border security vs. keeping the flow across the border moving as fast as possible. The result is an ill defined, illogical compromise situation.


[Edited on 9-18-2015 by SFandH]

David K - 9-18-2015 at 10:37 AM

The U.S. doesn't have Mexicans fill out forms, pay money, stamp the forms... while in their car in line.

msteve1014 - 9-18-2015 at 02:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
The U.S. doesn't have Mexicans fill out forms, pay money, stamp the forms... while in their car in line.


No, They have to do all that before they get in line, and it's a lot more trouble than filling out a FMM form.

Maybe some day they will have us filling out the forms before we get to the border. Online maybe.:light:

David K - 9-18-2015 at 03:15 PM

That would be great... actually, something like that may be ready... but still they want you to stop and get it stamped at the border to validate it... and that alone takes away the advantage of getting it in advance online or at the travel club office.

msteve1014 - 9-18-2015 at 03:25 PM

And it is still WAY better than the Mexicans coming north have it.

What if they tell you to go to the consulate 6 months before a trip to APPLY for a permit? No guarantee you will get one.

23S52N - 9-18-2015 at 03:50 PM

^^^ yup, we really lose sight of how easy we have it....the US and Canadian passport are pretty much a free pass to the world, and we tend to take that for granted when it comes to folks from other nations. Mexicans need a visitor's visa to come to Canada, and I just had a close friend from Malaysia denied a 10 day visitor's visa to come to Canada, because SEAsia ain't on the golden boy list right now.....we really need to be thankful and keep reminding ourselves how really well we have it....

regards,
Keith

David K - 9-19-2015 at 09:05 AM

No, it's not fair... but these are independent nations of the world and each has a right and a duty to make rules to protect their citizens.

It is easier (or was) for Americans and Canadians to cross into Mexico because we were a great source of revenue for Mexicans and they wanted us to cross easily with as much money in our pockets as possible.

It was good for them and good for us.

The logic escapes me as to why Mexico wants to make it harder for us to go south given all the other issues that have kept North Americans (as they call us) out? That alone has already reduced the revenue from tourism. The more difficult they make crossing the border, the worse it will be for Mexico's tourist economy... and especially automobile tourists who are the main type in Baja California (Norte) and Sonora.

rts551 - 9-19-2015 at 09:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No, it's not fair... but these are independent nations of the world and each has a right and a duty to make rules to protect their citizens.

It is easier (or was) for Americans and Canadians to cross into Mexico because we were a great source of revenue for Mexicans and they wanted us to cross easily with as much money in our pockets as possible.

It was good for them and good for us.

The logic escapes me as to why Mexico wants to make it harder for us to go south given all the other issues that have kept North Americans (as they call us) out? That alone has already reduced the revenue from tourism. The more difficult they make crossing the border, the worse it will be for Mexico's tourist economy... and especially automobile tourists who are the main type in Baja California (Norte) and Sonora.


Like you said, each country makes their own rules. Who are we to tell them how to run their borders. We can not even run our own. Maybe your concept of dependency on the US dollar is a little overblown. Does your fistfull make them dependent?

woody with a view - 9-19-2015 at 09:39 AM

just wait until Trump has the Mexicans build that wall! talk about lines....

David K - 9-19-2015 at 09:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No, it's not fair... but these are independent nations of the world and each has a right and a duty to make rules to protect their citizens.

It is easier (or was) for Americans and Canadians to cross into Mexico because we were a great source of revenue for Mexicans and they wanted us to cross easily with as much money in our pockets as possible.

It was good for them and good for us.

The logic escapes me as to why Mexico wants to make it harder for us to go south given all the other issues that have kept North Americans (as they call us) out? That alone has already reduced the revenue from tourism. The more difficult they make crossing the border, the worse it will be for Mexico's tourist economy... and especially automobile tourists who are the main type in Baja California (Norte) and Sonora.


Like you said, each country makes their own rules. Who are we to tell them how to run their borders. We can not even run our own. Maybe your concept of dependency on the US dollar is a little overblown. Does your fistfull make them dependent?


You may have missed my past tense form of the verb:

"... were a great source of revenue..."

rts551 - 9-19-2015 at 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No, it's not fair... but these are independent nations of the world and each has a right and a duty to make rules to protect their citizens.

It is easier (or was) for Americans and Canadians to cross into Mexico because we were a great source of revenue for Mexicans and they wanted us to cross easily with as much money in our pockets as possible.

It was good for them and good for us.

The logic escapes me as to why Mexico wants to make it harder for us to go south given all the other issues that have kept North Americans (as they call us) out? That alone has already reduced the revenue from tourism. The more difficult they make crossing the border, the worse it will be for Mexico's tourist economy... and especially automobile tourists who are the main type in Baja California (Norte) and Sonora.


Like you said, each country makes their own rules. Who are we to tell them how to run their borders. We can not even run our own. Maybe your concept of dependency on the US dollar is a little overblown. Does your fistfull make them dependent?


You may have missed my past tense form of the verb:

"... were a great source of revenue..."


Same logic could be applied to Mexicans coming North.

rayfornario - 9-19-2015 at 10:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BAJA.DESERT.RAT  
Hola,

saw this on bloody decks. is this another case of the mexicans shooting themselves in the foot.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

P.S. I'M ONLY THE MESSENGER...AND..IF THIS REALLY HAPPENS

I saw this bit of news on the "Discover Baja Travel Club" web site. If this is now the case, I would guess that there may be more people at the immigration office at the boarder. But most people either won't care to stop or won't know about the change.


Mexican tourist permits, or FMMs (Forma Migratoria Multiple), are required for all non-Mexican citizens entering Baja. As of September 2015, the “free zone” for FMMs (trips within the 20 kilometer border zone for less than 72 hours) is no longer valid and everyone entering Mexico will need to obtain an FMM. A passport or passport card is required to obtain an FMM.

DB insider tips:

As of September 2015, there is no longer a “free zone” for FMMs. Every non-Mexican citizen entering Baja will need to obtain an FMM regardless of length or location of visit. Also as of September 2015, visitors are no longer required to return their FMM to the Mexican government when exiting the country.
FMM tourist permits are issued for 180 days. Please be aware that FMMs are not valid for multiple entry. When you stop at the border to get your FMM stamped at immigration, we recommend telling them that you would like the permit for the full six months. This way, you are covered if you decide to extend your trip.
Get your FMM ahead of time at Discover Baja and skip the hassle of having to make multiple stops and waiting in long lines.
Keep your FMM in a safe place. Mexican immigration agents and federal police have the authority to ask for proof of legal status in Mexico at any time.
For Mexican insurance to be valid you must be in compliance with Mexican laws. Since having an FMM is a Mexican law, not having an FMM can invalidate your insurance and land you in jail.
Make two copies of your FMM tourist permit before traveling and leave one copy at home and carry one copy with you in a separate place from your actual FMM.
If you lose your FMM, you will need to go to the nearest immigration office to get a new one.


Actually if you cross into TJ with a 180 day FMM card, they don't stamp it and it is good every day you cross. Myself and my wife did this to avoid having to stand in line everytime we cross into TJ.:spingrin:

David K - 9-19-2015 at 10:35 AM

Do you mean if they don't stamp it the first time you cross or each time? If it isn't stamped after it is bought, it is not valid. Or, is this a new interpretation of the FMM rules (again)?

rayfornario - 9-21-2015 at 08:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Do you mean if they don't stamp it the first time you cross or each time? If it isn't stamped after it is bought, it is not valid. Or, is this a new interpretation of the FMM rules (again)?


They are using it as sort of a fast pass. My wife and I bought one as did my friends. It getrs stamped once and that is it. They ask to see it everytime you cross into Mexico. I know it is not the norm but they are doing to facilitate people who cross into Mexico frequently and want to avoid the line and filling out the form. There were official from Mexico City observing everything going on. Some of the merchants have said they have lost 70 percent of their business compared to last year in Tijuana. They blame this new POE into TJ for the drop.

SFandH - 9-21-2015 at 09:01 AM

Just to be clear.

The above procedure described by rayfornario is for pedestrians only.

David K - 9-21-2015 at 09:31 AM

Thanks, yes by Ray's wording it is for walking into Mexico since we drivers know they don't stop every car and ask to see papers. That would shut down the border pretty well southbound. However, people are people (walking or driving across the border)... and once it is stamped, the FMM is valid for up to 180 days (if that is the amount filled in). I think that is the point. The nice part is hearing we don't have to turn it in or mail the thing back before it expires... since they all end up in the trash!

sancho - 9-21-2015 at 11:18 AM

Ray it seems you are one of the few that have walked over at TJ
within the last few weeks, am I to assume you've shown your
existing 180 day fmm to Mex Imm on more than one crossing
into TJ? Not that anyone would have a reason to do this, but
I'm curious if a driving tourist were to show an existing fmm
to Mex Imm when driving across as to it's validity, what would be
their response, again I would see no reason to do so, may
open up a can of worms, just
curious

EngineerMike - 9-22-2015 at 05:24 PM

We used to purchase a "tourist card" from Vagabundos and get it stamped wherever- marina office in Ensenada was easy for a while, then they started to give a mountain of crap over them being a marine port of entry, blah, blah, blah.
So we got it stamped in Sta.Rosalia (also a marine port of entry), for a few more years. Finally w/the shifting of political winds, requirements tightened and stamp from the actual POE where you crossed was demanded. At that point purchase in advance was pointless since you have to stop anyway, the only difference was a wait in the bank line to pay the fine for being a tourist. I was always stopping to declare & pay import tax on stuff to rebuild our flood house anyway, so no big deal.

Driving a pickup w/camper shell, we always get waived to secondary, but we have never been asked to produce an FMT even when we say we are heading to Mulege (always have one freshly purchased, so no big deal, just saying).

Now w/the hike in import exemption to $300usd/person, I'm not usually in need of paying import tax, but what the heck, its always fun to visit w/the officials first thing isn't it? I know they like seeing me!

But if this did come to pass for vehicles transiting the border crossings, it would grind border town business to a standstill in an instant. Algodones would be a ghost town, might even be if this is real for foot traffic since $25/head & a long line would kill a lot of enthusiasm for saving a few bucks on eyeglasses.

woody with a view - 9-22-2015 at 05:32 PM

Mike, i just fopund this from Discover baja: When crossing by land, you are allowed to take your personal belongings and $75 worth of merchandise, duty free.

can you point me to where it says the new limit is $300?

Thanks!

David K - 9-22-2015 at 05:47 PM

Mike, although it is stupid bureaucracy to fill out, they have a FREE FMM (tourist card) for trips of one week or less.

The rule for decades had been a tourist card was needed for any trip south of the 'border zone' or any trip longer than 72 hours inside the border zone. The border zone for Baja had been to Maneadero (Punta Banda) on the Pacific side and San Felipe on the gulf side, before a tourist card was needed.

Before mid-2000, the tourist card was free.

This past year or so, they started asking for passports and getting the tourist card at the border (but only if you were going beyond Maneadero or staying longer than 72 hours).

I always got one at the border for my over three long day trips. Getting it at Guerrero Negro, Santa Rosalia, or La Paz means you were clearly in violation of the old border zone rule and subject to a fine. Nomad friend paid US$100 at Guerrero Negro in July, 2011 because his wife didn't have the FMM (they wouldn't issue it to her in Mexicali, because her passport had recently expired). My last time into Baja Sur (2015) nobody asked to see it (paid for at Mexicali). The time before (2012) the officer at the INM office at the stop sign past the Eagle Monument just waved us on without looking at the FMMs we paid for at Tijuana.

Rules have been very lax in Baja in the past, regardless of which version was being enforced!

EngineerMike - 9-22-2015 at 06:05 PM

Woody- I picked up the pamphlet at the declare station when entering and tried to declare about $350usd of goods w/myself & wife in car. It positively blew me away our first trip down when it was the new law. Call it culture shock. It makes perfect sense not to have customs agents waste time w/small amounts of goods & tax, so naturally I didn't believe my ears; that's when he handed me the pamphlet (in Spanish, but if you habla at all you can figure it out).

This started maybe a coupla years ago.
This webpage states it as you are gleening elsewhere, however it says last updated 9 June 2014. As always, the law you encounter at the border is the law you will encounter at the border, no exceptions. If in doubt, stop & declare, worst thing that can happen is you pay ~15% tax on the declared value. Food & "household goods" (say those exact words) have always been exempt in my experience. I've also had toys for Mulege kids at Christmas time crossed off list of taxable items by the (female) customs agent; wife said, "That girl's a mom." One time it was about 150 Hot Wheels cars in their original packages, one time about 300 new Beenie Babies. Its always fun just to see what happens if you stop to pay.

This website puts a date of Dec 2013 for the change.

[Edited on 9-23-2015 by EngineerMike]

woody with a view - 9-22-2015 at 06:29 PM

Thanks, i need to bring an apartment sized refer and a small chest freezer. +/-$350 total so i think i'll just go to Otay in case and declare them.