Has anyone done any exploring around Catavina? We haved camped north of town, and walked up thst seasonal wash that has the cave and rock art at the
mojuth of it, but we're thinking of taking a few days to look for good canyons in late March. The vegetation is so outstanding. Hope there will still
be some water around. We're in a Prerunner.
We also went out to El Marmol last time, but couldn't find the hot water. This time we will.
Any ideas for destnations or passable dirt roads would be appreciated.Neal Johns - 1-17-2005 at 09:26 AM
Use David K's GPS list to find places near Catavina:
Hint: the Baja Almanac (You do have it don't you? It shows most of the dirt roads in Baja) is screwed up in that area - the old unpaved road is the
one shown as Hwy. 1 north of Catavina, and the roads joining it on the map really join the old road (located about a mile north and parallel to the
pavement). So for example, if you were looking for the road north to El Marmol, you would first find your way north a mile to the old road (dirt) and
then use the GPS to find the junction.
Go to:
El Marmol - and out the northwest way
Agua Dulce spring - Just off the old road a couple of tenths
Take road along south edge of Aguaje Guillermo - ends at a palm grove
La Bocano - mucho agua
Arthur - 1-17-2005 at 10:33 AM
Thanks -- just what I needed. I do have the Almanac, but no GPS yet. We got to the El Marmol rock schoolhouse last time with the help of the Baja
Adventure Book, although its mileages are consistently screwed up. Trying to get from there to the water, we hit a "V" a few hundred yards in and
couldn't decide which way to go, and since there wasn't another vehicle and the day was getting on, we decided to turn back.
Thanks again for the ideas. Now, back to the maps!TMW - 1-17-2005 at 12:02 PM
I have a some of suggestions. Safety first. Make sure you have plenty of water, some food and warm clothing. Be prepared to spend the night in the
cold. A high lift jack is recommended along with some large pieces of plywood or boards should the siltbeds become a problem. Take a GPS unit with
you. There are ranchos and fish camps along the way. A 4x4 is recommended. If your staying at a hotel or campground let someone know where your going.
The silt beds I talk about will most likely not be a problem due to rains and lack of traffic on them since the 03 Baja 1000.
Take the loop north of Catavina at KM133 marked Puerto Santa Catarina. Page 16 (A-4) in the almanac. Dirt and graded road out to the coast. Be careful
as there are a couple of areas that are silt beds and 4 wheel drive may be needed. Just south of Santa Catarina, page 17 (A-1) bear left to Punta
Canoas. After reaching the coast backtrack and take the road southeast to Puerto Canoas. From Puerto Canoas take the main road to the Santa maria mine
area page 17 (C-3). On this section be ready for some of the most beautiful desert plants you'll probably ever see. Don't forget your camera. Follow
the main road back to hwy 1 at KM168 north of Catavina.
The next trip is from KM168 back down maybe 12 miles to a dirt road jct. page 18 near D-2. Take the dirt road south to San Telmo. It's an active onyx
mine. I was there a couple of years ago and the guy running it let us look around all we wanted. You'll probably have to come back the way you went
in because the road out of the mine to continue south is up a hill that I don't think has been in use for some time and probably not passable.
Another loop trip would be from KM168 back to the Santa Maria mine and take the dirt road south. It gets near the coast near San Jose and passes Bahia
Corbin and at Punta Vibora on page 20 of the Almanac near F-1 coorinates 29-10-49x114-44-20 there is a little used road that brings you out at Laguna
Chapala KM235. This route was going to be used in the 03 Baja 1000 race but was not due to the heavy silt during prerunning. When you first leave the
coast there are silt beds. There are/were two dry lakes on the left (north side) of this route at 29-15-07x114-33-43 el 1188ft and at
29-20-54x114-26-52 el 2139ft.
If you continue along the coast the road turns inland just pass Punta Blanco. At the spot marked Cordornices, 29-05-35x114-32-05, page 20 at H-2, you
can take the east route that after a while goes into a wash for a ways then up the mountain. There's a rancho after you start up the mtn. follow this
road to San Antonio, 29-11-44x114-18-58 el 1717ft. Continue on to hwy one at KM252.
Another trip would be to mission Santa Maria but you may want to try it with others due to the uphill return trip. Several on here have done it
without much trouble but who knows what the rains have done.
The coordinates are Datum 27, hours-minutes-seconds from my GPS.David K - 1-17-2005 at 07:11 PM
Hi Arthur, by 'water' I am guessing you mean El Volcan. Look at my report/photos of a visit to El Volcan in April, 2003: http://vivabaja.com/403/page13.html
This was after we drove into Mision Santa Maria at the beginning of that trip http://vivabaja.com/403 with two other Baja Nomads!
TW is talking about the Map Datum setting on a GPS. We all use datum NAD27 Mexico, to match with the Baja Almanac which is drawn at that setting. A
new GPS comes set at datum WGS84, and is very easy to change.
Here's one of the pools at El Volcan, just 4 miles from El Marmol.
David K - 1-17-2005 at 07:20 PM
Here's a simple map that shows this area and the correct location of Hwy. 1 compared to the old main road...
Hot water?
David K - 1-17-2005 at 09:44 PM
Hi again Arthur, in re-reading your first post I noticed the word 'hot', and wanted to tell you that the El Volcan geyser is a rare COLD water geyser,
works like an exploding soda can, not a tea kettle. All the water there is not thermal.
Also, please see more photos that Neal and Marian Johns took of the area (specially east from La Virgen)... there is more GPS waypoints then on my GPS
list of the sites Neal shows... near the end of this special web page: http://vivabaja.com/neal2
[Edited on 1-18-2005 by David K]Diver - 1-17-2005 at 10:25 PM
If you stay at Rancho St Inez, ask for Ralph. You can walk up to his place.
Ralph Shoemaker and his wife are americans from New Mexico that live just above the Rancho. Ralph likes to lead college and mission groups looking to
explore the area. He's a wealth of local knowledge and often up for a hike himself.
You may see him cruise through camp on his 4 wheeler or little pick-up.
Many roads are for 4WD only!
David K - 1-17-2005 at 11:25 PM
Since you said you have a Prerunner (2WD Toyota), might mention that several routes must be reserved for 4 wheel drive and high clearance rigs.
1) El Marmol to El Volcan is 4.0 mi. (to the arroyo where you hike to the right). But, I suggest that at the junction 2.0 mi. from the school house,
park (where the El Volcan road turns right) and hike the remaining 2 down hill miles... as they are fairly steep, to climb back up in 2WD.
2) Hwy. 1 to Agua Dulce: Do not use the first route off Mex. 1 (Km. 157+) as there is a steep gully/washout to cross. The second access that Neal used
is fine.
3) Old south route from El Marmol to the old main road: Not only should you have 4WD, but also a companion vehicle because of washed out arroyo
crossings. It was tough when I last drove it in 1975! I can only guess it is far worse today!
4) Santa Ynez to Mision Santa Maria: 4WD, high clearance, with a winch and companion vehicle and/or locking rear differential just to climb back up
the 'Widow-maker' (the steep, steep grade 13 1/4 miles from Santa Ynez or just over a mile from the mission).
[Edited on 1-18-2005 by David K]
Aguaje Guillermo Palms
David K - 1-18-2005 at 08:16 AM
Also called 'Agua Escondida', on the Camino Real just northeast from La Virgen, was visited by Neal & Marian Johns.
Bob H - 1-18-2005 at 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Arthur
We got to the El Marmol rock schoolhouse last time with the help of the Baja Adventure Book, although its mileages are consistently screwed up.
Yeah, that schoolhouse in El Marmol is very cool.... now it is fenced off with barbed wire to protect it... Bob H bajalera - 1-18-2005 at 11:59 AM
Thank you, DK, for that sketch map, which made me downright nostalgiac. Our little expedition camped out at an arroyo within slingshot distance of
Rancho El Aguila for the better part of a month in 1963.
El Marmol was in operation then, and we visited the place with Sr. Quinones of El Aguila, who chatted with the poor guys cutting out blocks of onyx in
the hot sun [he had once been one of them]. The manager was a pleasant guy whose comfortable house had enough shelves of U.S. canned goods to stock a
small grocery store. No sign today of his house and several others, which were all made of wood.
Sra. Quinones and three of her children came over nearly every afternoon to visit with me and my three--then 5, 7 and 9--while I struggled to
communicate with the aid of a pocket dictionary. With a Spanish vocabulary limited to si, no, gracias, tequila and cerveza, I didn't have much to
offer in the way of neighborly chit-chat, although I provided hot cocoa and cookies. You could hear cars and trucks traveling in either direction for
around half an hour before they came into sight, and the senora could identify whose many of them were by the sound of their engines.
The Llanos de Buenos Aires was obviously named by someone who didn't linger very long there--the alkali dust carried on that so-called good wind put
painful sores on the wrists and around the mouths of two of my children and me that resisted everything I put on them. Until I remembered reading in
one of Bernard De Voto's histories that the first thing cowboys did when reaching a town along the Old Chisholm [sp?] Trail was to buy canned tomatoes
to put on their skin. We had plenty of these, and they provided a quick cure.
Leewilderone - 1-18-2005 at 12:11 PM
"... park (where the El Volcan road turns right) and hike the remaining 2 down hill miles... as they are fairly steep, to climb back up in 2WD."
Went to El Volcan Thanksgiving in a 2WD ford truck. Actually, there are about 4 dicey spots en route, but all driveable if you're careful. The worst
was the deep erosion in the middle of the road which you need to either go around or straddle (and is probably worse now since the Dec/Jan rains).
The steep grade at the very end isn't bad if it's dry. Arthur - 1-18-2005 at 03:10 PM
Hey, thanks, everyone! I appreciate all the details. And thanks for the map, David! That will make things a lot easier.
We'll see about that hill down to El Volcan, but I don't object to walking a couple of miles if I don't have to worry so much about getting out. Good
to hear that Wilderone did it. It would be nice to find a place to camp around there, though, and the place where the El Volcan road veers off isnt
it. My Prerunner has trouble on steep dirt hills, because there's so little weight over the rear wheels. We coould always load in a bunch of rocks.
Is that stretch of El Camino Real that you drew passable for 2WD, David?
Those color pix are knockouts. Glad I've got a color printer at work. David K - 1-18-2005 at 06:26 PM
Arthur, I put the Camino Real in the map mostly to show it's location in relation to modern roads... It is nothing more than a cow path in this part
of Baja and I only hiked a mile of it from Agua Dulce to the east. West from Agua Dulce it is the same route as the old Baja road to about Cafe
Sonora, then about the same as Mex. 1 past San Agustin. See my report at http://vivabaja.com/ECR
LdB and I camped near the white slope, just past the Arroyo El Volcan crossing on the road that continues toward Mina la Olividada... big area to camp
between arroyos... see photo facing northwest of Sarah sitting by the springs in the white slope and my truck in background. Beyond my truck is the
ridge above Arroyo El Volcan (misnamed as Arroyo Zamora in the Almanac)
GPS/ Milages/ Km. markers
David K - 1-18-2005 at 07:26 PM
With the GPS, no longer are you guessing at what fork in the road is right... because no two odometers are the same. Another aid to navigating Baja
has been to use the kilometer markers to note roads by. Only problem is that they moved all the markers south of San Quintin AFTER the Baja Adventure
Book and The Baja Roadside Geology book was published (both refernce the Km. markers).
If you get a GPS (some under $100 now), you will enjoy your trip more as you will find the places you are reading about.
EL VOLCAN side trip:
Start from the El Marmol Onyx schoolhouse at 29-58.20', 114-48.54' (9.5 miles from signed turnoff on Mex. 1 just west of Cafe Sonora).
Go northeast from schoolhouse 2.0 miles to a fork. Turn sharp right for El Volcan, ahead/left dead ends in 2 miles.
On the right fork, begin steep down grade to lowest point which is Arroyo El Volcan, 4.0 miles from schoolhouse, at 29-59.84', 114-46.13'. See tracks
turning right in arroyo which can be driven about 1/4 mile. Continue to hike past large pools another 1/4 mile to the 'Onyx Dome' growing on the right
side of the arroyo gully at 29-59.54, 114-46.22'. This is Baja's Cold Water Geyser which errupts for several minutes once a month...
Please bring camera should you be lucky to witness this event! Oh, this is what gives the place the name 'El Volcan' (The Volcano)!
If you drive across the Arroyo instead of turning right, the road passes the white slope of several onyx springs at 29-59.87', 114-45.87'.
The road may be driven (or may not) several miles to La Olividada mine and a view of the Sea of Cortez. I did in 1974 to where I saw the gulf, but in
2000 the road was badly washed out just past the white slope, and in 2003 I didn't go past the white slope.
AGUA DULCE side trip:
Better Agua Dulce and old main road access (by Arroyo Agua Chuco and Mesa Chuco in Almanac) is at 29-51.66', 114-50.35' (remember the road shown as
paved Mex. 1 in the Almanac is actually the old Baja main road, between Sonora and San Roque).
It is 1.5 miles from Mex. 1 to the old road and Agua Dulce fork (at 29-52.81', 114-49.58'), then 0.3 mi. to the parking spot above the spring at
29-52.97', 114-49.38'.
The Camino Real can be hiked east from here. Note an Indian trail switch-backing up the face of the mesa north of Agua Dulce.
There's so much more to see and explore... This is just a drop in the bucket! Viva Baja!!!
Here is Agua Dulce...wilderone - 1-19-2005 at 10:10 AM
Re: El Camino Real: "It is nothing more than a cow path in this part of Baja and I only hiked a mile of it from Agua Dulce to the east."
David - are you aware of the geoglyph in this very area? It has been the subject of a report and published in the San Diego Museum of Man's Rock Art
papers a few years ago. This one would be considered a "summit glyph" and also includes an altar of sorts which can be seen from the road which goes
out to El Marmol. As with any of these significant archaeological sites, they require careful preservation. (I cringed when I saw the motorcycle
doughnut tracks nearby). Anyway, don't confuse this geoglyph with a cow path. Arthur - 1-19-2005 at 03:55 PM
What's a geoglyph?wilderone - 1-19-2005 at 04:48 PM
You've heard of petroglyphs -- drawings on boulders, rock faces, etc. -- well, a geoglyph is a pattern (or drawing) on the ground. There are several
in the Mojave desert and elsewhere in the southwest. They can be amorphous or a recognizable design, like the "running man" design in the Mojave
desert. Most are very large - 40-75 yards? or so, and if you come upon one, you may not recognize it for what it is, thus, the one at the El Marmol
turnoff area does kinda look like a cow path! Also, a small correction - that one is called a "summit path" (not summit glyph). wilderone - 1-19-2005 at 04:53 PM
Here's a site that offers a bit more explanation, along with an aerial of "running man.":
For those of you who have not seen this in my web site, here is the onyx dome that is in Arroyo El Volcan, 4 miles from El Marmol and less than 1/2
mile hike up (right/south) the arroyo. This 'dome' or large stalagmite is about 30 feet high along the right bank of the arroyo. Between the oozing
spring at it's top and monthly eruptions the dome grows ever so slowly. wilderone - 1-20-2005 at 09:28 AM
After you make the turnoff to El Marmol, you go about 1 mile - maybe less - and to the right you will see the old altar, which is a circular mound
about 4 ft. high and 15 ft. in diameter, encircled by river rock. At some time someone has attempted to excavate it, as a large hole has been dug
into it. Anyway, about another 30-40 yards south of this, you will encounter a slightly higher plateau and you will see the glyph -- essentially long
one-way lines, a couple parallel each other. I don't know what the entire extent of the lines or pattern is. I am hoping to track down and read the
report soon to learn more. It would be great to see an aerial of it or if Sat Man could zoom in. David K - 1-20-2005 at 04:19 PM
Let me see if we can zoom in.... To be clear: The graded El Marmol road goes away from Mex. 1 northeast, crosses the old Baja main road in just about
1/4 mile where Rancho Sonora was located before the highway was built (I can check my GPS), bends to the north and heads to some shade trees (former
site of Rancho San Simon, windmill), then bends back to the notheast as it joins with the original road from Rancho San Agustin to El Marmol.
A mile from Mex. 1 probably would put it near the trees of the former San Simon... I have GPS of this area, if that sounds right, I will email the
coordinates to Satellite Man and see if he can do a zoom in.
[Edited on 1-22-2005 by David K]wilderone - 1-21-2005 at 09:48 AM
That's about right. It's 1/4 mi or less before the windmill, off to the right, about 50 yards, from the El Marmol road.David K - 1-21-2005 at 07:02 PM
Great Wilderone! I telephoned Satellite Man yesterday and emailed him the coordinates for the El Marmol/Mex. 1 jcn. and said "about one mile north to
zoom in on". He has been very busy plus the surf is up this week... but, I think he is going to see if he has a good image of that area to zoom in on.David K - 1-21-2005 at 07:36 PM
Here is a close up of the area, drawn by Cliff Cross about 1969/1970...
The new highway stays to the left (west) of the old main road (and the original ranch locations), going through the left side of the names of the
ranches (Tres Enriques and Sonora), on the map.
Cliff incorrectly drew the Agua Dulce spring on the west side of the main road (it is off the east side).
The new El Marmol graded road is over the shown diagonal road next to the words Flat Valley. Both Tres Enriques and Sonora moved to the highway. New
Tres Enriques has burned.
The geoglyph is perhaps near the T in FLAT.
[Edited on 1-22-2005 by David K]
El Volcan Road
David K - 1-22-2005 at 01:21 PM
Here's a photo of the top of the long down grade to Arroyo El Volcan, taken in July, 2000. It doesn't look bad at this point, just over 2 miles from
El Marmol. Lots and lots of elephant trees in here!
