BajaNomad - Development comes to Todos Santos, BCS

Development comes to Todos Santos, BCS

Lee - 9-29-2015 at 05:53 PM

https://tressantosbaja.com/todos-santos/

motoged - 10-1-2015 at 01:47 PM

Yeah, what a shame....I can remember when rooms at Hotel California were $22.....

Those were the days....

"Progress".....

SFandH - 10-1-2015 at 02:39 PM

Who knows if this development will ever be more than a website. Have they started any building?

Pescadero used to be my destination when I was surfing. San Pedrito with the swimming pool (it actually was clean and had water in it one year), showers, flush toilets, palapa bar, cabanas, and the 3 dollar a night beach palapas to hang your board in.

[Edited on 10-1-2015 by SFandH]

Bajahowodd - 10-1-2015 at 04:53 PM

I get a sense of deja vu. Is there not another post about this?

That said and asked, considering all the development on the gulf side, the past several years has seen an explosion of hotels along the road from Cabo to Todos.

Just thinking of Joani Mitchell's lyrics about paving a parking lot.

Lee - 10-1-2015 at 05:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Who knows if this development will ever be more than a website. Have they started any building?

Pescadero used to be my destination when I was surfing. San Pedrito with the swimming pool (it actually was clean and had water in it one year), showers, flush toilets, palapa bar, cabanas, and the 3 dollar a night beach palapas to hang your board in.

[Edited on 10-1-2015 by SFandH]

There's a video that shows the construction. Since Winter will be high season, I expect there to be drownings annually. It's a steep beach with strong current. NOT a swimming beach. I"ve always caught fish at Lobos.

I remember the pool at Pedrito too. Fun place -- and the waves are still good -- along with the local lineup. Can't remember if it was Marty or Ignacio that wrecked the place.

monoloco - 10-1-2015 at 09:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Yeah, what a shame....I can remember when rooms at Hotel California were $22.....

Those were the days....

"Progress".....

I can remember when they were $4.

SFandH - 10-2-2015 at 06:45 AM

Found the video, it's in the blog. Started construction on the beach hotel this past June.

The whole thing sucks, in my humble opinion.

Nothing else to say.

monoloco - 10-2-2015 at 01:38 PM

IMHO, the whole protest over Tres Santos is overblown, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that they will sell 4000+ lots or homes. The demand just doesn't exist, I'll bet that there isn't 30 home sales a year in Todos Santos. I think that a lot of the outrage is driven by local realtors who don't want to see their slice of the pie shrink.

BajaUtah - 10-2-2015 at 02:48 PM

Hmmmm., Bypass road about to open just as Tres Santos starts to build?

I wonder how much Tres Santos influenced the new bypass toll road around Cabo? It just doesn't make sense to bypass your money maker Cabo and San Jose unless you don't want people to drag their feet (and their wallets) there on their way to Tres Santos. Much better chances to keep the suckers if they don't get distracted on the way.

weebray - 10-2-2015 at 03:38 PM

I agree 4,000 new homes - no way! But - four thousand new Oxxo's, now that is a possibility.

Lee - 10-2-2015 at 04:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

I think that a lot of the outrage is driven by local realtors who don't want to see their slice of the pie shrink.

Doesn't sound right. Tres Santos should have ''co-op'' agreements with all agents. Tres Santos will set the commission -- probably between 7%-10% -- Listing Agent (Tres Santos) will split that with Selling Agent -- split is determined by TS).

I could be wrong on this.

With ''Farm'' homes selling for $500k + and ''Beach'' homes selling for up to $1.5M, everyone will want in on this deal.

On the other hand, Pescadero's Tequila Ranch never got off the ground.

monoloco - 10-2-2015 at 04:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

I think that a lot of the outrage is driven by local realtors who don't want to see their slice of the pie shrink.

Seeing as how they have their own marketing team and sales office, I doubt that they will be splitting anything with the local real estate cartel.

cabobaja - 10-2-2015 at 06:24 PM

First, let me say that I do not normally respond to conjecture relative
to real estate issues on Bajanomad. Generally, most post are negative
to the industry and those agents and broker's that work to insure that
their client's, expats or Mexican, are represented legally within the laws
and their purchase or sale is within the legal confines of Mexican law.

I have been representing buyer's and seller's of real estate in Elias
Calles, Pescadero and Todos Santos for 20 years. I have been fortunate
to continue to assist many client's over the years that are now friends and family.

To see nomads post negative, and untruths totally amazes me. But,
I guess that is today's social media.

Lee, you do not know what you speak of. Tres Santos 7%-10%. Crazy!
Monoloco, Tres Santos has invited local brokers and agents to be
involved in introducing and selling Tres Santos. We have had multiple
meetings over the past several years. They offer a 3% commission
for a sale. So..., as an agent, if I sell a Tres Santos property I make
1 1/2% and my broker makes 1 1/2 %.

If you wish to contact me, please do. costapacifico@yahoo.com

Saludos!

Lee - 10-2-2015 at 06:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cabobaja

They offer a 3% commission
for a sale. So..., as an agent, if I sell a Tres Santos property I make
1 1/2% and my broker makes 1 1/2 %.

If you wish to contact me, please do. costapacifico@yahoo.com

Saludos!

On this forum, I get the impression agents are right up there with used car salesmen. That's not my impression as I know some in the Todos area who know what they're doing. 3% commission -- someone's getting the short end of the stick on this and it's not Tres Santos.

Anyway, I did say I could be wrong. And, according to cabobaja, I'm way, way off.

rts551 - 10-2-2015 at 06:37 PM

Just to point out not everything is hunky dory in All Saints town.

http://truthsantos.org/

cabobaja - 10-2-2015 at 06:42 PM

rts551, is everything hunky dory in your town? I notice your post
are more negative than positive. Saludos!

monoloco - 10-2-2015 at 08:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cabobaja

First, let me say that I do not normally respond to conjecture relative
to real estate issues on Bajanomad. Generally, most post are negative
to the industry and those agents and broker's that work to insure that
their client's, expats or Mexican, are represented legally within the laws
and their purchase or sale is within the legal confines of Mexican law.

I have been representing buyer's and seller's of real estate in Elias
Calles, Pescadero and Todos Santos for 20 years. I have been fortunate
to continue to assist many client's over the years that are now friends and family.

To see nomads post negative, and untruths totally amazes me. But,
I guess that is today's social media.

Lee, you do not know what you speak of. Tres Santos 7%-10%. Crazy!
Monoloco, Tres Santos has invited local brokers and agents to be
involved in introducing and selling Tres Santos. We have had multiple
meetings over the past several years. They offer a 3% commission
for a sale. So..., as an agent, if I sell a Tres Santos property I make
1 1/2% and my broker makes 1 1/2 %.

If you wish to contact me, please do. costapacifico@yahoo.com

Saludos!

Well, I do know for a fact that one of Tres Santos's most vocal opponents is a local family who owns a real estate office in Todos Santos. They have been pushing development in the area for over 25 years, but now that another group has come in they are suddenly getting the town all stirred up about over development.

SFandH - 10-3-2015 at 10:58 AM

When Mindfulness Goes Wrong: a Mega-Development’s Deceptive Branding in Mexico

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/18/when-mindfulness-goes...

I found the link to the following article here: https://www.facebook.com/TRUTHSantos/

Mindful living conjures the image of socially responsible individuals practicing yoga and meditating as they envision a more equitable world. Mindfulness has become a buzzword designating both a concern for individual health and an awareness of our environment. It’s hard to see how it can be controversial. But the term also works as a wily catchphrase to sell coastal real estate in a questionable new development in Mexico’s Baja California peninsula.

A small town nested in an oasis on the Pacific coast of southern Baja, Todos Santos has gone over the past twenty years from being a quiet fishing and farming village to becoming a popular tourist destination. Words like “quaint” and “unspoiled” pop up in most articles written about it. Considered a quieter alternative to its southern neighbor Cabo, Todos Santos is known for surfing, art galleries, film and music festivals, and is home to a growing community of American and European residents. In 2006, it was named Pueblo Mágico or “magical village”, by Mexico’s Secretariat of Tourism, a designation meant to ensure governmental commitment to sustainability. But it is not devoid of problems. Water scarcity has long been an issue, the transition from agriculture to tourism has brought its share of social ills, and most recently an open pit mine plans to operate in the Sierra de la Laguna Biosphere, the area’s most important source of water, putting the region at risk of an environmental disaster comparable to the Animas River’s recent toxic spill.

And now Todos Santos is getting both a mega-development that brands itself as mindful and an ethically murky university campus. A real-estate project called Tres Santos has permits to build 4472 homes over twenty-five years, leading to an estimated indirect population growth of more than 60,000 new residents, quite a leap for a town whose population in 2010 hovered just above 5000. Divided into three sections, beach, townfarm and hillside, the project frames the southern edge of town. The beach development, already under construction, happens to be located in Punta Lobos, the only sheltered location where local fishing cooperatives can directly access the beach with their skiffs. Recent tropical depression Linda, a mild storm compared to last year’s Hurricane Odile that wrecked havoc in Cabo and much of the peninsula, has already caused serious beach erosion and flooding of the development’s existing contruction. The townfarm section, planned on a dry patch of land on the outskirts of town, next to the town cemetery and far from the area’s agricultural fields, has already inaugurated Colorado State University’s first international campus, projected to start operating this fall. Establishing a research center with a strong background in sustainable agriculture and water use in Mexico’s driest state certainly seems worthwhile. But the campus’s coziness with Tres Santos and with MIRA, the Mexican affiliate of Colorado-based Black Creek Capital, led by prominent real estate mogul Jim R. Mulvihill, who spearheads the project, have unsettled both the Todos Santos community and CSU students. The campus is supposedly built on gifted land, but CSU does not have full ownership of the trust. CSU is required to allow Tres Santos to use its name for marketing purposes, and is expected to keep its research farm in bloom during peak tourist season. Higher education, it seems, makes for great greenwashing. As one of the project’s brokers in Todos Santos told me: “Other developments put in golf courses, we’re bringing in a university campus”.

“A perfect place for mindful living”. That’s the slogan a quick online search for Tres Santos will give you. Appropriately, their Todos Santos sales office promises “Bikes, Yoga, Info”, and omits direct references to selling homes ranging from $233,000 USD to $1,545,000. The online information form beckons: “Join us. Be part of the movement”. Images of tanned blond children, fit bikers, surfers and yogis are interspersed with photographs of desert landscapes, solitary beaches and picturesque farmlands. Only the occasional fisherman or rancher reminds you that this “epicenter for well being” happens to be in Mexico. But who benefits from such mindful living, and who pays the cost? Tres Santos has already bulldozed endangered mangroves, built a private reservoir that holds more water than the town’s own, and reportedly is requesting permits to build 8 more private wells. Such a large-scale luxury project can only exacerbate inequality and result in various forms of displacement. The very notion of a mindful mega-development, the Tres Santos project proves, is an oxymarooon.

Meanwhile, local citizens are organizing to oppose the project. Perhaps Tres Santos does promote a sense of community after all. Just not one that includes them.

[Edited on 10-3-2015 by SFandH]

rts551 - 10-3-2015 at 11:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by cabobaja

rts551, is everything hunky dory in your town? I notice your post
are more negative than positive. Saludos!

Actually not too bad. Don't get your curlies in a wad. Only pointing out there is quiet an uproar in Todos Santos. Not negative/not positive. If people did not want Todos Santos to change character something should have been done 25 years ago.

Marie-Rose - 10-3-2015 at 11:19 AM

Thanks for the copy and paste SFandH.

I agree... really is a shame to see this development. The Truth Santos link is (IMHO) doing a good job at representing the views of those who oppose. As always... those with the big bucks will make more big bucks.
The Colorado University project is also really interesting :barf:

SFandH - 10-3-2015 at 11:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Marie-Rose

The Colorado University project is also really interesting :barf:

CSU is being bought off, used as a marketing gimmick:

"In other Jimmy [Jim R. Mulvihill, founder of Black Creek Group, Realty] news, he’s very keen to fundraiser for us, and to mobilize his networks to fundraiser for us. We need to think in terms of a big ask for an endowment… Jimmy will personally give the seed money. Just another thing for us to figure out when we’re in Todos!…OK, back to board meeting.”

Amy Parsons
Vice President for Colorado State University Operations, Salary, $190,000+yr

http://truthsantosbaja.com/

Also, watch the video of a local resident speaking at the bottom of the page.

rts551 - 10-3-2015 at 11:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by Marie-Rose

The Colorado University project is also really interesting :barf:

don't understand the quote. I see who said it but where?

rts551 - 10-3-2015 at 11:52 AM

What CSU has to say.

http://todossantos.colostate.edu/

rts551 - 10-3-2015 at 11:55 AM

Not a bad overview of all sides.

http://www.collegian.com/2014/06/csus-todos-santos-center-cr...

monoloco - 10-3-2015 at 03:22 PM

One thing to remember is that most of the opposition to this project is from gringos, I have heard very few native Santeños say anything negative about this project. It seems that most of the locals that I know are looking forward to the jobs it will bring to the area. This is in stark contrast to the Los Cardones mine project which enjoys close to 100% local opposition. I don't know if the project will ultimately be good for the area or not, but there is a lot of nonsense being spewed by some of the detractors, like the statement that the developers "stole" the pangeros' beach. That was private property and never belonged to the fishing coop, who is still launching their boats in the same place they always have.

pauldavidmena - 10-3-2015 at 03:59 PM

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that Tres Santos actually sells a small fraction of its intended footprint, enough to keep some local workers gainfully employed, but not enough to convince MIRA to keep on building. I just don't see enough of the type of people who would like a development like Tres Santos coming to Todos Santos. Conversely, the type of person looking to settle in Todos Santos, myself included, is probably not likely looking for something like Tres Santos.

[Edited on 10-3-2015 by pauldavidmena]

[Edited on 10-3-2015 by pauldavidmena]

rts551 - 10-3-2015 at 04:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

One thing to remember is that most of the opposition to this project is from gringos, I have heard very few native Santeños say anything negative about this project. It seems that most of the locals that I know are looking forward to the jobs it will bring to the area. This is in stark contrast to the Los Cardones mine project which enjoys close to 100% local opposition. I don't know if the project will ultimately be good for the area or not, but there is a lot of nonsense being spewed by some of the detractors, like the statement that the developers "stole" the pangeros' beach. That was private property and never belonged to the fishing coop, who is still launching their boats in the same place they always have.

AMEN. They went to the Donald Trump school of protest. (and I do not think it is sustainable).

SFandH - 10-3-2015 at 04:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

I don't know if the project will ultimately be good for the area or not....

That depends upon your definition of good. If you're looking for property price appreciation, more people, more tourists, more money, more jobs catering to the tourist trade, Hard Rock Cafe, etc. etc., it's a great idea.

Are they building time shares?

monoloco - 10-3-2015 at 04:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Are they building time shares?

Not that I've heard of. Another thing to remember is that 99% of the water in this area is used for agriculture, most of it highly unsustainable and reliant on massive quantities of toxic chemicals. Why aren't these people protesting that? It's a much greater threat to the area than Tres Santos.

rts551 - 10-3-2015 at 04:24 PM

Protest? or the dump that has been closed for a month.

elgatoloco - 10-3-2015 at 10:36 PM

That made for some interesting reading and videos on those links. What they have already done to the beach and mangroves seems criminal. Desal plant. Where have we heard that line before.

wilderone - 10-5-2015 at 11:27 AM

"I just don't see enough of the type of people who would like a development like Tres Santos coming to Todos Santos."
Seems they're envisioning 30-somethings with children - the Whole Foods crowd. Doesn't make sense to think that there are 4,000 retirees with that kind of money who want to turn their backs on family, life-long friends and the lives they've created. Yoga and bicycling - makes me LOL.

pauldavidmena - 10-5-2015 at 01:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

"I just don't see enough of the type of people who would like a development like Tres Santos coming to Todos Santos."

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone

Seems they're envisioning 30-somethings with children - the Whole Foods crowd. Doesn't make sense to think that there are 4,000 retirees with that kind of money who want to turn their backs on family, life-long friends and the lives they've created. Yoga and bicycling - makes me LOL.

Exactly - millennials don't have the kind of money Tres Santos is asking for what is essentially retirement housing. Do adults of retirement age want to live in this kind of development? Not this one.

SFandH - 10-5-2015 at 05:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

Do adults of retirement age want to live in this kind of development? Not this one.

What makes you think not? We (retirees) come in all shapes and sizes, as do workers. Although I regret seeing growth in TS, especially hotels on the beach, especially on the only beach used by the local fishermen, the architectural drawings on the website for the residences look pretty nice. A townhouse/condo that you can lock up and forget about during the hot months and not worry about hurricanes or thieves, and then return to in the late fall/winter and not have to break out a machete to cut back the summer's growth would be OK with me.

[Edited on 10-6-2015 by SFandH]

Lee - 10-5-2015 at 06:00 PM

Don't have a dog in this fight. Well heeled Boomers are retiring and have money. Tres Santos will sell itself. I've fished this beach weekly for years -- from the South end North to La Poza -- I could live there easily -- don't see investing that much money without a track record and history.

Honestly, if you don't know this beach, you don't know. It is a very special place.

Rancho Pescadero has done well from Day 1.

http://ranchopescadero.com

SFandH - 10-5-2015 at 06:11 PM

Do you think this will put an end to the local panga fleet or will they still be able to operate out of Punta Lobos?

rts551 - 10-5-2015 at 06:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Do you think this will put an end to the local panga fleet or will they still be able to operate out of Punta Lobos?

As I understand it the beach has been private for a very long time. The pangas have only had authority to operate on a very small portion of the beach. I can remember camping on that beach 30 years ago with no pangas on it.

monoloco - 10-5-2015 at 10:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Do you think this will put an end to the local panga fleet or will they still be able to operate out of Punta Lobos?

They are still using the beach as they always have, Tres Santos has actually built them a covered facility on the beach for cleaning their fish. I'm guessing that they will probably benefit from having a resort there, considering that the area is pretty much fished out of everything but pelagic species like dorado and striped marlin that are technically illegal for them to catch, many of them will probably be able to make a better living by switching to sport fishing and whale watching charters.

BFS - 10-12-2015 at 11:29 AM

The Tres Santos development is here to stay and as most big developments has both lovers and haters. Similar to many of the beautiful beaches in Cabo, if you are a purist or in to nostalgia, you can write this beach off now.
There is no beauty or charm or magic left on the south end of the beach.
The fishing co-op who have a concession to work here are not doing things just as they always have been. They are working in a severely reduced space and different environmental conditions than ever before due to the introduction of a large sea wall or retaining wall and massive amounts of rocks and boulders which are now being scattered along the shore.
These type of developments attract a different type of 2nd home buyer than TS is used to seeing. Most buyers here are a little more casual, eclectic, artsy, alternative, etc.
But that is changing and it is possible with a big, organized, gated development, that these new buyers may actually show up and but homes that are priced much higher that the currently available inventory.
Only time will tell.
The local realtors (myself included) stand only to benefit from a new influx of buyers and I have had a few clients go through the Tres Santos sales pitch then buy through me after realizing the value they can get with current inventory, no HOA fees, move in ready homes. Having said that some realtors do not want the change associated with a big development and are thus strongly opposed to it. Others are struggling to make a living and welcome potential new buyers.
Like a gushing arroyo that has not flowed in 50 years, it is interesting to watch the change but sad to see a beach permanently changed by man's hand and a community somewhat divided by it all.

monoloco - 10-12-2015 at 02:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BFS

The Tres Santos development is here to stay and as most big developments has both lovers and haters. Similar to many of the beautiful beaches in Cabo, if you are a purist or in to nostalgia, you can write this beach off now.
There is no beauty or charm or magic left on the south end of the beach.
The fishing co-op who have a concession to work here are not doing things just as they always have been. They are working in a severely reduced space and different environmental conditions than ever before due to the introduction of a large sea wall or retaining wall and massive amounts of rocks and boulders which are now being scattered along the shore.
These type of developments attract a different type of 2nd home buyer than TS is used to seeing. Most buyers here are a little more casual, eclectic, artsy, alternative, etc.
But that is changing and it is possible with a big, organized, gated development, that these new buyers may actually show up and but homes that are priced much higher that the currently available inventory.
Only time will tell.
The local realtors (myself included) stand only to benefit from a new influx of buyers and I have had a few clients go through the Tres Santos sales pitch then buy through me after realizing the value they can get with current inventory, no HOA fees, move in ready homes. Having said that some realtors do not want the change associated with a big development and are thus strongly opposed to it. Others are struggling to make a living and welcome potential new buyers.
Like a gushing arroyo that has not flowed in 50 years, it is interesting to watch the change but sad to see a beach permanently changed by man's hand and a community somewhat divided by it all.

All the beaches on the north side of points have been washed away due to the track of storms moving up the outside for the last two summers, this has been exacerbated by the lack of the prevailing NW winds to wash the sand back during the winter and spring months. Normally, there is over 100 meters of beach in front of the Tres Santos development and the launching area for the cooperativo. It's not Tres Santos fault that the beach has eroded, but the seawall and rocks that they have dumped have made the situation worse for the pangeros. the rocks have washed down into the launch area causing damage to motors and boats when they attempt to land on the beach. The beach will return when weather patterns return to normal, but in the meantime it's the fishermen who will be affected.