BajaNomad

Winches

Bob53 - 10-15-2015 at 03:49 PM

Looking for a winch for my Burb. I have front and rear receivers so I want a multi mount style. Any suggestions?

TMW - 10-15-2015 at 04:18 PM

Do you want cheap or one of the really good ones.

For cheap go to Harbor freight and for about $299 or less you can get a 9,000 lb unit and the carrier that will fit a receiver is another $49. I have a 6,000 lb one that I have never used but maybe some day. I do carry a 5,000 lb portable unit with me that fits a receiver. Also several snatch blocks or pulleys, they will double the pull ability.

For a better unit check with Fourwheel Parts or Summit Racing. Warn is a well known name.



[Edited on 10-15-2015 by TMW]

Ken Cooke - 10-15-2015 at 05:28 PM

My buddys Warn 8,000 pulled me out of a ditch near Palomar Canyon a few years ago! :bounce:

Maderita - 10-15-2015 at 09:00 PM

It would be tempting to go cheap when comparing the price of a quality winch to the Chinese knockoffs. Seems like when a winch is needed, it is seriously needed. That's not the time to count on a low budget/poor quality tool. IMHO, it's worth paying 3x as much for quality/reliability.

For quality, I'd suggest Warn, or perhaps Ramsey. For your needs, a minimum 8,000 lb. to 9,000 lb. winch. Beware the fancy names and stickers/logos on Chinese relabeled products. Badlands and Smittybilt come to mind.

The Warn XD9000i has been around a long time, is very popular, and as far as I know, well proven in the field. That is my recommendation for your rig. A quick look on eBay shows an XD9000i Portable (multi-mount kit included) Part # 37441 for $1311 w/ free shipping and probably no sales tax (shipping from Wisconsin).

9,000 lbs. should be sufficient for your heavy rig. As TMW said, carry a "snatch block" (pulley) so that you can double the line pull. The snatch block must be top quality and rated to more than 2X the single line pull of your winch (therefore 18K - 20K min.). I carry at least two, sometimes 3 if I'm expecting trouble. The pulleys also allow for changing direction of the pull, often necessary to overcome less than ideal directions of pull. Also carry several 3/4" shackles, short straps ("tree savers"), gloves, etc. Having a good accessory kit really maximizes the bare winch's ability.

I have a Warn M12000 (12000 lb.) on a 1-ton Ford. It has 3/8" wire rope (vs. 5/16" on smaller winches). It weighs considerably more and is probably overkill for your needs. Excess weight hanging out in front of the vehicle is less than desirable. I have a 9,000 lb. Ramsey on a Jeep and have done heavy pulling with that. Most people aren't aware that the single line pull rating is based on the first wrap (closest to the drum). Each subsequent wrap/layer reduces the effective line pull significantly.

A winch is a major expense. For many people it's like buying insurance. You may never need it, but feel more secure having it. That security, on the other hand, may just lead someone into getting over his head or venturing into a risky solo situation.

Often, the money is better spent on the basics of a Hi-Lift jack, locking differential(s), 30,000+ lb. tow straps, etc. If money is an issue, consider where it might be more effectively spent. Even though my rigs have winches, I prefer to use a snatch strap (tow strap) in 80-90% of cases.

You will need a quality battery in top condition. Consider it a part of the investment in a winch. A winch under load draws a lot of amperage. I like a battery with dual top posts and side terminals, so that the winch is connected separately. Since Optima quality diminished several years ago, the Sears DieHard Platinum (made by Odyssey and rebranded) is my first choice.

Hope this helps. How's your new roof rack working out?

MMc - 10-16-2015 at 08:16 AM

Maderita, well done! You are right on track with this info. What do you think about the spectra lines?

Bob53 - 10-16-2015 at 11:24 AM

Maderita, great response! I actually have been looking at Warns. This is the one I was looking at...
https://www.warn.com/truck/winches/ZEON_10_Multi-Mount.shtml
I tend to go for quality vs cheap. I'll check out the XD9000i.

And the new roof rack is working out very well.



[Edited on 10-16-2015 by Bob53]

msteve1014 - 10-16-2015 at 11:46 AM

I have a 8000# warn on my F-350 in that multi mount for 10 years now. It was on my K-2500 for 16 before that. Maybe a little light for the Ford, but it has worked fine when needed. If you carry the winch on the back it makes a good step in to the bed.

Bob53 - 10-16-2015 at 12:53 PM

Also, synthetic cable vs steel cable? Does the synthetic cable hold up as well? I imagine there is a significant advantage in weight.

Maderita - 10-16-2015 at 06:24 PM

Thanks MMc.
Disclaimer: I haven't owned synthetic/Spectra lines, so I'm not all that qualified to answer.
I'm happy with wire rope (steel cable). I've had a number of winches on various 4x4s. Synthetics will cut over a sharp edge when loaded. Steel, for most practical purposes, doesn't. I've had steel lines contacting edges of factory bumpers and sharp sheet metal and running-scraping over rough/sharp rocks. Any of those situations would have destroyed a synthetic rope. My wire rope sits in the sun for years at a time and I don't worry about the effects of UV sunlight or weather.

Manufacturers tout the benefits of synthetics, and Jeep clubs seem to like them for the supposed safety advantages (less kinetic energy to avoid whiplash when they break). Rock crawling competition events usually require synthetics where winching is frequent, operators are hurried, and bystanders are present.

I use common sense to protect myself and others. Use proper connectors, attach weight(s) to the wire rope to absorb kinetic energy in case of breakage, prop the hood open to protect the windshield, and ensure that the operator and others are well clear to the side. That mitigates the safety risk of using wire rope. Oh, and the 15 lbs. that could be saved is laughable when my rig weighs 7,000 lbs (winch and bumper = 400 lbs).

For the average Joe using the winch infrequently, wire rope has its place. For the Jeep-club-rockcrawler-frequent-user, synthetic may be a good choice.

As to the Warn Zeon line of winches, I have no experience. It does look handsome in its modern case/shroud! A 10K winch is not overkill for the Suburban. The Zeon has 80' of 3/8" wire rope vs. the XD9000i which has 125' of 5/16" wire rope. 3/8" is a good thing, in my opinion. I can always extend with any of the multiple snatch straps and shackles in my fat accessory kit. From Warn's spec sheets. the Zeon 10 portable shipping weight is 120 lbs. vs. XD9000i portable @ 104 lbs. You're gonna have to lift that sucker waist high and juggle into the receiver tube. How good is your back?

Do some on line research comparing those Warn winches. Are the internals the same, or is one distinctly superior? Perhaps read some product reviews on the Zeon (from neutral sources & consumers).

Btw, Warn winches are rebuildable, with parts readily available.

Another thought: I looked up your roof rack photos to see your Suburban again. Looks like factory bumpers front and rear. I'd recommend installing shackle mounts (aka: clevis mounts) at each corner, firmly bolted or welded to the frame. That provides a reliable solid attachment point for the shackle and winch hook. Last thing you want is to be fumbling in mud or underwater. Remember, you may want to use that snatch block and double the line back to the vehicle for 2x pulling power.
Try eBay for some good prices, search "shackle mount" or "clevis mount" or go to http://www.shacklemounts.com/

Maderita - 10-16-2015 at 11:25 PM

The XD9000i portable ( w/multi mount) kit, part # 37441 appears to come with a hawse type fairlead. The Zeon 10 portable kit, part # 90340 (the muti mounts are different) also has a hawse fairlead. If you go with wire rope, I'd recommend replacing the hawse fairlead with a good quality roller fairlead. The fairlead mounting hole configuration should be interchangeable with the hawse, but confirm that with Warn. Two holes spread 10" horizontally, center to center. Warn's roller fairlead is part # 5742.
The hawse type is sufficient for straight pulls, but a roller type is superior for pulling at an angle. And so often the pull is at an angle. I guess people don't plan where they are going to get stuck...
If you elect to get synthetic line, a hawse is compatible.

It seems that price isn't your major consideration, so you might want to compare with the Warn 9.5cti, muti-mount kit part # PN 85760.
About $300 more for the top of the line.

Wow, here's one on eBay for $1200 w/ free shipping! That's $400 less than the next cheapest listing. New; only one to sell. Seller has 100% positive feedback rating. I'd be all over that, before it gets away!
eBay item # 221911851172

Did I ever mention that I'm good at spending other's money? ja,ja

Bob53 - 10-19-2015 at 12:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Maderita  
Wow, here's one on eBay for $1200 w/ free shipping! That's $400 less than the next cheapest listing. New; only one to sell. Seller has 100% positive feedback rating. I'd be all over that, before it gets away!
eBay item # 221911851172

Did I ever mention that I'm good at spending other's money? ja,ja

Well, I was a little too slow on that listing. It ended this morning. But then it was relisted at $100 less so I jumped on it. Should have it next week.

Maderita - 10-19-2015 at 05:15 PM

Yes, I almost sent you the relist item number this morning. What a great deal you got on that winch package!
Have you got locking diffs on that Suburban? If not, that's the biggest improvement one can make toward improving traction. With the money you saved on the winch, the lockers would be hundreds cheaper. Well, that's how I explain to my wife, lol

Bob53 - 10-19-2015 at 06:54 PM

It came equipped with an Eaton G80 automatic locking differential from the factory. Not sure if it is really that great compared to a Detroit or not. It seems to me like the G80 works backwards compared to most lockers.